AoS 2 - Slaves to Darkness 2 Discussion

[Snakeb1te]

9 hours ago, Scurvydog said:

The chosen I will agree are very lackluster and serves no purpose in even a semi optimized list.

Warriors, knights and varanguard all got their place though. 

Chaos warrior units are good anvils, especially with their reroll saves at 10+ models makes for a tanky 15 man unit, 270 pts for 30 wounds with rerolling 4+ saves and 5+ save against mortal wounds is pretty decent. Their base attack profile is not great, but can become decent with buffs and marks. Especially in a plague touched warband these guys will bring good value with their ability to tank and as a result get the chance to reflect more MWs. Marauder often end up with bravery issues, especially keeping a hero in range when they charge 10"+ is very difficult and chaos warriors needs less hero support to stick around.

Chaos knights are decent for their points now, they are not stand out army defining units as they once were and like hearthguard, witch aelves etc are for others, but they are a solid battleline choice. 

Varanguard needs to be built around, but empty throne varanguard are great, being heroes makes it much easier to spread around mark auras and the grasping plate artifact is a game changer entirely, it is just so good. If brough along Archaon in an everchosen host, their damage output can become nuts. Running an empty throne list with Varanguards and knights, with warriors as an anvil can work fine, of course marauders can do the trick as well, but the warriors are far from unplayable at least.

I'm trying to find a way to put together an amateur list for house games using all the models I own. What do you reckon of the below? Is this allegiance still worth it even if just one Varanguard unit? Technically I have four heroes that can make use of the command ability to deny objectives, and the idea is to use as many hammers to kill things whilst taking objectives of my own, even if I have a low wound count.

 

If not, I'll just switch to Ravagers, grab a Marauder Horsemen box and go with that.

 

Edited November 16, 2020 by Snakeb1te

[Snakeb1te]

Also how do people put their Chaos Lord on a round base? He came with a square base for me, standing on skulls. I don't want to elevate him too much for line of sight reasons, what do the rest of you do to get him on the 32mm base?

[Charleston]

29 minutes ago, Snakeb1te said:

Also how do people put their Chaos Lord on a round base? He came with a square base for me, standing on skulls. I don't want to elevate him too much for line of sight reasons, what do the rest of you do to get him on the 32mm base?

A lot of pain.
Jokes aside, most people rebase them using clippers and sanding paper to get the elevative part off the model and then they glue him on a round base.

[Scurvydog]

52 minutes ago, Snakeb1te said:

I'm trying to find a way to put together an amateur list for house games using all the models I own. What do you reckon of the below? Is this allegiance still worth it even if just one Varanguard unit? Technically I have four heroes that can make use of the command ability to deny objectives, and the idea is to use as many hammers to kill things whilst taking objectives of my own, even if I have a low wound count.

 

If not, I'll just switch to Ravagers, grab a Marauder Horsemen box and go with that.

 

With those models going Ravagers will not really give you anything either, empty throne at least give you another hero in the varanguards and the command abilities to bring 3 of them back on a 5+ or reduce the opponent count for objectives might help.

This can of course fight and if facing a similar type of friendly list will probably make for a fun game, but if you face anyone running half decent higher tier armies it will hurt quite a bit. I'd say it is good if you just align a bit with your opponent.

[Snakeb1te]

22 minutes ago, Charleston said:

A lot of pain.
Jokes aside, most people rebase them using clippers and sanding paper to get the elevative part off the model and then they glue him on a round base.

Hmmm. Damn I didn't not realise it would be so much work. I'll give it a shot thanks. If there's any chance anybody could post a picture of their own work that would be greatly appreciated..

 

16 minutes ago, Scurvydog said:

With those models going Ravagers will not really give you anything either, empty throne at least give you another hero in the varanguards and the command abilities to bring 3 of them back on a 5+ or reduce the opponent count for objectives might help.

This can of course fight and if facing a similar type of friendly list will probably make for a fun game, but if you face anyone running half decent higher tier armies it will hurt quite a bit. I'd say it is good if you just align a bit with your opponent.

Well Ravagers would let me use multiple traits, as well as call in Marauder Horsemen for extra bodies right? The question is whether Empty Throne's objective  nullifying ability makes taking it worth more than Ravagers hmmm... I'm not banking on the 5+ return to battle ability so that is irrelevant.

Oh I know this list isn't competitive. This would be exactly my second game of Age of Sigmar, so yes I would only be playing with friends using our model collection :D. Figuring out what works and building up from there - not looking for anything too competitive, but don't want to take anything non-sensical either. For example the Eightfold-Doom Sigil which is just... a whole bunch of meh.

Would it be fair to characterize this list as a decent hammer but not enough anvil?

Edited November 16, 2020 by Snakeb1te

[Scurvydog]

3 minutes ago, Snakeb1te said:

the Eightfold-Doom Sigil which is just... a whole bunch of meh.

Well that requires a chaos caster who gets a chance to cast anything  

The traits from Ravagers wont give you anything really, they are not that good and only the karkadrak is a hero that really benefits from them anyway that will have an impact in a fight, the artifacts are also poor, so grasping plate and having varanguards also spread mark of chaos seems better to me, but there is a case for both of course.

In knights allegiance you can also give them the trait giving friendlies rerolling charges, which can benefit chariots, knights and karkadrak a lot.

[Lord Krungharr]

Has anyone tried a Despoilers StD army?  Full of Daemon Princes and Fomoroid Crushers to make the enemy fear the land?  Just curious.  Seems like it could be a neat one.  Toss in a couple Mindstealer cats for good measure?

[Charleston]

41 minutes ago, Lord Krungharr said:

Has anyone tried a Despoilers StD army?  Full of Daemon Princes and Fomoroid Crushers to make the enemy fear the land?  Just curious.  Seems like it could be a neat one.  Toss in a couple Mindstealer cats for good measure?

I play Despoilers as default as I lack the marauders for a Ravagers list and the endless spells and lvl 2 casters for cabalists.

My default loadout are 2 DP´s, one of them usuallly Khorne, other Nurgle, a Soul grinder and a Sorcerer on Manticore. As battleline I mostly rely on Knights and MArauder Horseman, often as Ruinbringers. Most important features are usually the 18" General Chaos Aura and the protection for the general. Beeing able to shut down LOS prevented some damage in multiple games. Also the Artifacts are nice: Additional CP´s with the Conquerors Cloak usually allow me to operate with all CA´s needed. Helm of many Eyes with the first Strike Sheningan makes the Sorcerer Lord on Manticore better as odds increase that he survives front line duty. Fighting first with 2-3 big models is a huge perk of such lists. In general I am a fan of the Artifacts of the Despoilers. Doombringer Blade for example is great to pick up the fight against big centerpiece models. Only downside is in my eyes the need for a DP Lord to take the Warlord Trait and the situational nature of the traits.

Find the list I used in my last game against OBR attached in the spoiler below:

Spoiler

Allegiance: Slaves to Darkness
Chaos Lord on Daemonic Mount (170)
- Artefact: Diabolic Mantle
- Mark of Chaos: Khorne
Chaos Sorcerer Lord on Manticore (260)
- Artefact: Helm of Many Eyes
- Mark of Chaos: Nurgle
- Spell: Binding Damnation
Slaves to Darkness Daemon Prince (210)
- General
- Sword
- Command Trait: Radiance of Dark Glory
- Mark of Chaos: Khorne
Slaves to Darkness Daemon Prince (210)
- Sword
- Mark of Chaos: Nurgle
1 x Chaos Chariots (120)
- Greatblades
5 x Chaos Knights (160)
- Cursed Lance
5 x Chaos Knights (160)
- Ensorcelled Weapons
5 x Chaos Marauder Horsemen (110)
- Axes & Shield
Soul Grinder (210)
Chaos Warshrine (170)
Ruinbringer Warband (140)
Extra Command Point (50)

Total: 1970 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 2
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 111

 

[Archion89]

Any use for the Rokar Gresh box, even as generic chariots?  I think it has some strong monetary savings, especially if you go third party vendor.

Edited November 17, 2020 by Archion89

[Snakeb1te]

9 minutes ago, Archion89 said:

Any use for the Rokar Gresh box, even as generic chariots?  I think it has some strong monetary savings, especially if you go third party vendor.

I've just received mine - monetary savings were the main reason. I will use them as cheap batteline because I refuse to use those mediocre Chaos Warrior warscrolls. Could also be useful in a Ruinbringer Warband.

[Kurrilino]

22 hours ago, Snakeb1te said:

Also how do people put their Chaos Lord on a round base? He came with a square base for me, standing on skulls. I don't want to elevate him too much for line of sight reasons, what do the rest of you do to get him on the 32mm base?

I used a knife to cut the square shape out of a round 32mm baxse.

Then "sink in" the square base and put some  terrain paint on. After dry brushing it looks fantastic

[Kurrilino]

23 hours ago, Snakeb1te said:

 

 

There is nothing "wrong" with that list if you just want to have some friendly games  to figure out what's working.

In general the Knights and the Varanguard will work against each other.

In Empty Throne lists, the Knights will be ignored  and in other lists the Knights will work well with Karadrak.

The Chaos will benefit greatly from the Chaos Lord but both will have trouble to keep up with the rest of the army.

Body count in general could be an issue for objectives.

 

But you can ignore all that. Important is to have fun and it will accur to after a couple of games where synergy gets lost.

As an overall input i would say get rid of some points, mostly Scarbrand, and invest in the cavalry  battailion.

This way you can maximize the impact hits you dish out charging stuff. 

[Ragest]

Just played with my beloved anvil of 25 chaos warriors nurgle marked with batallion. My friend doesn’t to play vs those again

[Challenge]

3 hours ago, Kurrilino said:

I used a knife to cut the square shape out of a round 32mm baxse.

Then "sink in" the square base and put some  terrain paint on. After dry brushing it looks fantastic

I just cutted the sides of the square base with a side cutter and glued it on a round base. Then you can use a little bit liquid green stuff on the sides of the square base to make it on par with the round base. After all the model is only 1-2 mm higher than it would be right on the normal square base. Best solution for me so far and it only took like 5 minutes. Hope it helped.

[Challenge]

Sry for double post, but can´t edit, maybe for some new member reasons...

Btw the correct size of the lord of chaos base is 40mm, not 32mm. At least it is delivered with an additional 40mm round base.

[KoganStyle]

58 minutes ago, Challenge said:

Sry for double post, but can´t edit, maybe for some new member reasons...

Btw the correct size of the lord of chaos base is 40mm, not 32mm. At least it is delivered with an additional 40mm round base.

The Dec. 2019 base size chart from GW lists the Lord of Chaos as 32mm

[Challenge]

1 hour ago, KoganStyle said:

The Dec. 2019 base size chart from GW lists the Lord of Chaos as 32mm

Oh nice, thanks for the info! Thought I could trust a fresh bought chaos lord package  

Well finally i can switch to a 32mm base now and it fits nicely into the chaos warriors 😃 

Edited November 17, 2020 by Challenge

[Infernalslayer]

In my humble opinion if an Age of Sigmar miniature comes with a round or oval base in the package, that is the official base for it. If the Chaos Lord comes with a 40mm base then that is the correct one.

I wouldn't completely trust the GW Base Chart pdf as they had incorrectly listed bases for other miniatures and later corrected some of them. For example, the Harbinger of Decay was listed to use a 60mm round base in the pdf and after players contacted Games Workshop that he comes with an oval base in the blister, they updated him in the base chart later later to a 75 x 42mm.

It could be the same case with the Chaos Lord, but nobody contacted GW to update it.

They even list him with the old warhammer name "Lord of Chaos" in the pdf, while in the webstore, book and warscroll his is named "Chaos Lord"

 

[Agent of Chaos]

End of the day it doesnt make sense for a Lord/Hero to be on the same size base as rank and file troops. He should stand out and reflect his status via a larger base. It also slightly helps with the mark of chaos/command ability wholly within 12" aura and lets face it; slaves can use all the assistance available.

Same issue with the khorne bloodsecrator; sold with a 40mm and honestly needs that base size to remain stable, not to mention the slight boost to aura range is very welcome. Then GW arbitrarily say he should be on a 32mm... reducing him to blood warrior size. Meanwhile every other mortal khorne foot hero remains on 40mm....

OK sure, at a tournament I'll measure as if its on the recommended base size. Otherwise for me, rule of cool/slash what it was sold with will prevail. 

[The Mysterious Mr B]

Hi all! StD collector (alongside half a dozen other armies!) for a while now but I've never had any success with them on the tabletop, but then I've not played with them since the Battletome came out so I'm hoping the Chaos Gods will smile on me now! 

Previously I'm mostly just built according to the rule of cool, i.e, whatever I think looks best. Now they seem to be at least a potential contender on the tabletop (rather than being laughed off it by any army with a proper book!) I want to take them a bit more seriously. So two build questions:

1. Sword or Axe for the Daemon Prince? Pros and cons of each? 

2. I have 10 Knights, all with Lances (rule of cool - I think the lances look awesome!).  But now I look at their warscroll again I think I've made a mistake, but I'm not sure either way! Would Ensorcelled Weapons be better? I would probably take them as two units of 5, if that makes much difference, but could be persuaded to make them a single unit of 10. 

Bonus question: Which of the Chaos Gods corrupted and warped my mind into thinking having four Gorebeast Chariots made any sense? 

(Apologies if either of these topics have been discussed already. I tried looking back through several pages but without reading 100+ pages there's no guarantee!)

[Snakeb1te]

23 minutes ago, The Mysterious Mr B said:

Hi all! StD collector (alongside half a dozen other armies!) for a while now but I've never had any success with them on the tabletop, but then I've not played with them since the Battletome came out so I'm hoping the Chaos Gods will smile on me now! 

Previously I'm mostly just built according to the rule of cool, i.e, whatever I think looks best. Now they seem to be at least a potential contender on the tabletop (rather than being laughed off it by any army with a proper book!) I want to take them a bit more seriously. So two build questions:

1. Sword or Axe for the Daemon Prince? Pros and cons of each? 

2. I have 10 Knights, all with Lances (rule of cool - I think the lances look awesome!).  But now I look at their warscroll again I think I've made a mistake, but I'm not sure either way! Would Ensorcelled Weapons be better? I would probably take them as two units of 5, if that makes much difference, but could be persuaded to make them a single unit of 10. 

Bonus question: Which of the Chaos Gods corrupted and warped my mind into thinking having four Gorebeast Chariots made any sense? 

(Apologies if either of these topics have been discussed already. I tried looking back through several pages but without reading 100+ pages there's no guarantee!)

Questions 1 and 2 are referred to various times in this topic. You may want to use search.

Short answer - both weapons are viable for the demon prince, you can see what the minor differences are. Some people are convinced the sword is better and some that the axe is, but they're close enough to each other to be comparable.

Fret not about the knights! They're fine, you just need to make sure your positioning is good.

- if you run them as a 10 you will have to be mindful of the hero auras (because knights aren't going to be any good without some buffs). You would have a decent alpha strike unit that could do ok against most things... if you charge. I wouldn't run them as a 10 unless you know your opponent and their list and can see it being useful. If there's terrain you will struggle further. If you take them as 10, ensure you have the Chaos Lord on Demonic Mount or Karkadrak for their command ability.

- two units of 5 makes more sense, which as someone said previously, allows you to alternate them cycle charging. Aura buffs should be easy to apply, though not sure if it is worth using one of the mounted lord CPs for just 5 guys.

As you're using lances, the khorne mark is probably the most efficient, as nurgle and slaanesh tend to do better with more but lower quality attacks. With the knights you want to get the lances to 2+ wounding. As such, any allied Bloodsecrator would be pretty neat too!

No idea why've acquired so many Gorebeasts ;). For 150 points cost they are truly ass. They're slow, not that survivable, no rend on the crushing fists. The only good thing about them is the base size and if you can charge into 1" of two units at the same time only then it is putting a little damage.

I'm sorry to say but I don't see a use for them at all - I'd just proxy as normal chariots which are cheaper, move faster, and can count as battleine. Perhaps sometime in the future we will get the points cost reduced for them by at least 50.

Edited November 18, 2020 by Snakeb1te

[The Mysterious Mr B]

5 hours ago, Snakeb1te said:

Questions 1 and 2 are referred to various times in this topic. You may want to use search.

Short answer - both weapons are viable for the demon prince, you can see what the minor differences are. Some people are convinced the sword is better and some that the axe is, but they're close enough to each other to be comparable.

Fret not about the knights! They're fine, you just need to make sure your positioning is good.

- if you run them as a 10 you will have to be mindful of the hero auras (because knights aren't going to be any good without some buffs). You would have a decent alpha strike unit that could do ok against most things... if you charge. I wouldn't run them as a 10 unless you know your opponent and their list and can see it being useful. If there's terrain you will struggle further. If you take them as 10, ensure you have the Chaos Lord on Demonic Mount or Karkadrak for their command ability.

- two units of 5 makes more sense, which as someone said previously, allows you to alternate them cycle charging. Aura buffs should be easy to apply, though not sure if it is worth using one of the mounted lord CPs for just 5 guys.

As you're using lances, the khorne mark is probably the most efficient, as nurgle and slaanesh tend to do better with more but lower quality attacks. With the knights you want to get the lances to 2+ wounding. As such, any allied Bloodsecrator would be pretty neat too!

No idea why've acquired so many Gorebeasts ;). For 150 points cost they are truly ass. They're slow, not that survivable, no rend on the crushing fists. The only good thing about them is the base size and if you can charge into 1" of two units at the same time only then it is putting a little damage.

I'm sorry to say but I don't see a use for them at all - I'd just proxy as normal chariots which are cheaper, move faster, and can count as battleine. Perhaps sometime in the future we will get the points cost reduced for them by at least 50.

Ahh, the Search function! I hadn't realised that was an option or even seen it until you mentioned it!

It sounds like axe or sword for the daemon prince, ensorcelled weapons or spears for the knights don't make a huge amount of difference but I definitely appreciated the answer and was very interested in your point about making them Khorne. I have only really used StD as Undivided, though not for any real game-related reason, more lore and not making my mind up. 

As for the Gorebeasts, the real reason was that someone was selling them dirt cheap on eBay (probably shifting them for this very reason!) so thought I'd go for it. I wish they had better rules to go with (what I think, at least) are pretty kick-ass looking models... alas. That said, I think there's something about them in the new Morathi book so I'll have to keep my eyes open for any shred of hope... 

[Snakeb1te]

1 hour ago, The Mysterious Mr B said:

It sounds like axe or sword for the daemon prince, ensorcelled weapons or spears for the knights don't make a huge amount of difference but I definitely appreciated the answer and was very interested in your point about making them Khorne. I have only really used StD as Undivided, though not for any real game-related reason, more lore and not making my mind up. 

As for the Gorebeasts, the real reason was that someone was selling them dirt cheap on eBay (probably shifting them for this very reason!) so thought I'd go for it. I wish they had better rules to go with (what I think, at least) are pretty kick-ass looking models... alas. That said, I think there's something about them in the new Morathi book so I'll have to keep my eyes open for any shred of hope... 

Wait - the weapon choice does make a difference, but it depends on what you're using it for (both ingame, as well as the outside the game i.e. casual games or some more competitive?) In other words - in some situations the Axe is much better, and the ensorcelled weapons are far better, and in others it is more close of a comparison. Depends on context.

The thing about StD is the wide variety of supporting units, and buffs.

With auras alone - Slaanesh tends to favour higher number of attacks in your units, because of the unmodified 6s to hit. To some extent so does Nurgle. The reason I mentioned Khorne is because we're talking about Lances. If you change your lances to ensorcelled weapons, then there's an argument for other marks. Undivided isn't 'bad', but it isn't as good as the others - and technically the 6 save after save from the general aura can be granted by the Warshrine (but they don't stack). Undivided is probably only any good if the general provides it to a huge Chaos Warrior or Marauder blob, where you can get a lot more value out of the save after save, and battleshock immunity from the massive amount of damage they are likely to draw upon themselves.

I am also someone who prefers Undivided - and I paint up my units as such. Using the god-mark rules doesn't bother me because I just pretend it is some kind of inspiring aura from the nearby hero, and not necessarily to do with Khorne or whatever - basically I don't take the aura of the gods literally. Then again I'm someone that is using Chaos Warrior models as Chaos Chosen, because they look too good to be as crappy as the Warrior warscroll :P. So what I'm saying is - a rule is just a rule, you can just pretend it has nothing to do with a god, and that all it is, is a benefit derived from a nearby skilled hero inspiring your troops with tactics or force of personality.

The chariots - honestly, just use them as regular chariots ;). Pretty sure most people are not going to care that you do that. Then you can use 4 chariots and 2 knights and be able to grab the Ruinbringer Warband (as long as you have  a mounted lord). Then every time you charge with any of those 7 units you will inflict D3 MWs on a 2+. Not terribly competitive but at least then you have a use! The rules you are referring to in the Broken Realms book is a waste of time as it is right now - forget it (here's hoping the December FAQ improves it).

[Kurrilino]

On 11/17/2020 at 10:39 AM, Ragest said:

Just played with my beloved anvil of 25 chaos warriors nurgle marked with batallion. My friend doesn’t to play vs those again

I do exactly that myself.

They are always paired with the Lords of Blights, Geminids and Shards of Valaghar and warshrine

Makes for a cozy -3 to hit and -5 to hit for shooting. with a reroll 3+ save.

It's usually a quite and eventless playing afternoon that drives opponents nuts

[Neverchosen]

Sorry for peppering the forum with dumb questions, but nn the warscroll builder on Warhammer Community it lets me include Idolator Lords on Chariots in other damned legions is this an error, are they allies, or am I able to simply include them in my army?

I hope that is the case because I want a lord on chariot and to keep my Ravagers Legion (primarily for narrative reasons).