Warhammer - The Old World

[JerekKruger]

1 hour ago, GhostShark said:

Is there a consensus yet on how to handle Murderous?

At the moment it seems to be near useless. I believe all models in the game are considered to have a single hand weapon in addition to whatever else they have, so your Witch Elves could choose to use than instead of their additional hand weapons if you really want to use the rule; and all characters seem to have it so any character you leave with just a hand weapon will benefit from it (yay for Sorceresses in combat I guess).

I think it either ought to extend to additional hand weapons as well, or apply regardless of the weapon you're using (like Choppas). The former let's Witch Elves benefit, which kinda makes sense, the latter let's Executioners benefit (the only non-Witch Elf non-characters with it).

My concern is, Dark Elves being a legacy list, GW will not feel the need to issue FAQs for them.

EDIT: personally I think it should apply to all non-magical weapons. It fits Witch Elves thematically, and buffs Executioners (who I think are a little worse than Black Guard at the moment). Maybe remove it from all characters apart from Death Hags, Assassins and nobles to balance it out a bit (is there any reason Beastmasters or Sorceresses should have it? They aren't associated with the Cult of Khaine. Only reason I leave it on nobles is they could be Khainites. Maybe make them pay for it as an upgrade?)

Edited February 18 by JerekKruger

[GhostShark]

1 hour ago, Skreech Verminking said:

Is murderous the dark elve witch elve rule they have?

Yes. Its on a few DE units.

[Sception]

On 2/17/2024 at 5:14 AM, Jamopower said:

I’m pretty sure it will eventually be erratad to something along that way (i.e. Mounted monsters to use their own save always). It feels such an oversight in the rules.

imo mounted monsters should use the lower of the monster or the rider's armor save.  the mounts save then becomes a cap on the rider's armor save, but there's still a reason to give the rider armor or a shield.

[Skreech Verminking]

First 1k list I’ve written for this weekend.

its nothing I would consider meta breaking or anything mear competitive, but it looks quit fun for the start 

[Lavieth]

On 2/17/2024 at 5:11 AM, Skreech Verminking said:

Pete the wargamer made an incredible high elves dragon conversion out of the new stormcast dragon.

I keep looking at Ionus and thinking I can use his for a high elf dragon with a bit of conversion work. I'll need to watch that video.

[JerekKruger]

21 minutes ago, Lavieth said:

I keep looking at Ionus and thinking I can use his for a high elf dragon with a bit of conversion work. I'll need to watch that video.

I think it is a great basis for any of the elf dragons. It can be a Chaos or Zombie Dragon too, but those both require a bit more work (two heads, or some sign of decay).

It's a gorgeous mini.

[Sception]

I've been trying to brainstorm ways to convert the Cities of Sigmar manticore lady into Dieter Helsnicht.  The manticore looks amazing, and her chair has enough skulls and bones in it to work for a necromancer.  But I have no idea what to do for the rider, and undead-ifying a big monster with feathered wings is a lot trickier than doing the same for a model with leathery wings that you can easily dremel some tattered holes into.  I'd need to have a solid plan in place before starting - the model's way too pricey for me to just buy one and 'wing it'.

[Ejecutor]

32 minutes ago, Lavieth said:

I keep looking at Ionus and thinking I can use his for a high elf dragon with a bit of conversion work. I'll need to watch that video.

What about Krondys/ Karazai? It is way bigger, but also quite cheap to get with Hachette, and it has a look closer to High Elves with its armour from Krondys, imo.

[JackStreicher]

17 minutes ago, Sception said:

I've been trying to brainstorm ways to convert the Cities of Sigmar manticore lady into Dieter Helsnicht.  The manticore looks amazing, and her chair has enough skulls and bones in it to work for a necromancer.  But I have no idea what to do for the rider, and undead-ifying a big monster with feathered wings is a lot trickier than doing the same for a model with leathery wings that you can easily dremel some tattered holes into.  I'd need to have a solid plan in place before starting - the model's way too pricey for me to just buy one and 'wing it'.

Won‘t work. The leg-stance of the manticore makes the model WAY too wide to fit any reasonable square base.

[JerekKruger]

25 minutes ago, Ejecutor said:

What about Krondys/ Karazai? It is way bigger, but also quite cheap to get with Hachette, and it has a look closer to High Elves with its armour from Krondys, imo.

I doubt they'd fit on any of the appropriate bases. They're on the 160mm big pie plate in AoS whereas the High Elf dragons are on 60x100mm bases. Even on the largest square base (100x150mm) I think you might struggle to fit them.

[YoghurtKobold]

When do you  expect second ToW wave for TK and Bretonnians? Still waiting for those lovely new plastic foot knights.

[Skreech Verminking]

Gobstrak Loonking of da Knight’z of da realm

 

 

 

Edited February 18 by Skreech Verminking

[Wnerva]

22 hours ago, GhostShark said:

Is there a consensus yet on how to handle Murderous?

Whats unclear about the rule? its the same with ithilmar weapon for high elves, ensorcelled weapons for chaos or warpstone weapons for skaven, or khopesh for khemri etc.

I personally hate rerolls on atacks or saves. Its still a "roll a dice" game. Removing randomness is stupid.

I hope that this rule, and many others like it, never come back.

[JerekKruger]

21 minutes ago, Wnerva said:

Whats unclear about the rule? its the same with ithilmar weapon for high elves, ensorcelled weapons for chaos or warpstone weapons for skaven, or khopesh for khemri etc.

It's not unclear how it works, it's unclear why a rule that specifically calls out Khainites, and is only on the four explicitly Khainites units (plus characters), does not actually do anything in any of those units unless you make a conscious decision to avoid using their signature weapons.

Unless you think it's likely the rules writers thought it was a good idea to dedicate space in the list to a rule that essentially does nothing, the only conclusion is that it's an oversight. Most likely is they copy pasted the wording of the rules from something like Ithilmar weapons, but forgot to change the party about only applying to hand weapons.

21 minutes ago, Wnerva said:

I personally hate rerolls on atacks or saves. Its still a "roll a dice" game. Removing randomness is stupid.

Rerolls don't remove randomness, they change the probabilities involved: 4+ with a reroll can still fail.

There are good arguments against rerolls (namely they slow play down) but removing randomness does not seem to be one. You might as well say "I hate it when characters wound on a 2+ as it removes randomness from the game, everyone should always wound in a 4+".

Edited February 19 by JerekKruger

[Skreech Verminking]

28 minutes ago, JerekKruger said:

It's not unclear how it works, it's unclear why a rule that specifically calls out Khainites, and is only on the four explicitly Khainites units (plus characters), does not actually do anything in any of those units unless you make a conscious decision to avoid using their signature weapons.

Unless you think it's likely the rules writers thought it was a good idea to dedicate space in the list to a rule that essentially does nothing, the only conclusion is that it's an oversight. Most likely is they copy pasted the wording of the rules from something like Ithilmar weapons, but forgot to change the party about only applying to hand weapons.

Rerolls don't remove randomness, they change the probabilities involved: 4+ with a reroll can still fail.

There are good arguments against rerolls (namely they slow play down) but removing randomness does not seem to be one. You might as well say "I hate it when characters wound on a 2+ as it removes randomness from the game, everyone should always wound in a 4+".

I’n guessing they didn’t think through it or forgot that the daughter of khaines come with two weapons.

it’s kinda similar to the skaven rule.

we’ve got a rule where we basically can add bravery for each rank of models we have to our bravery, which is something we had in 8th edition as well.

just this time they kinda forgot to give that special rule to any skaven unit.

Personally I think we should play those rules as we think it was intended, of course that would mean you would have to ask and tel your opponent first what the problem is.

if that has been dealt with using the rules as we think it was intended should be fine

especially at friendly games, at an event it might be worth asking the to what his opinion is on that

[Wnerva]

5 minutes ago, JerekKruger said:

There are good arguments against rerolls (namely they slow play down) but removing randomness does not seem to be one. You might as well say "I hate it when characters wound on a 2+ as it removes randomness from the game, everyone should always wound in a 4+".

That is not the same and You know it. 5 Coldone Knight charging and failing to wound 3 times(on 2+), and then they get to reroll those wounds is beyond stupid. And i dont only talk about this specific rule. Im happy that BSB only give rerolls to rally, panic and break test. And not marching, stupidity etc. We got to the point in 8 edition, 9th age, where Ld just did not matter. Rerolls just killed that part of the game. And that made, for example, elven units weaker as a whole, so they (ppl behind rules) needed to remedy this by deacreasing point cost, or inventing another special rule. It was madness.

For example. Night goblins had 5 ld in 6ed. My friend played with them. They costed back then 2 points per model. But i was not afraid of them because if i focused fire on that unit, chances are it would flee. My spearmen block costed like 80 goblins. And it was fine.

Thats the main reason i stopped playing 9th age. One evening, when i was making a roster, i caught myself thinking that i will automaticly lose with some armies and autowin with others. There is no way im coming back to that.

[Wnerva]

3 minutes ago, Skreech Verminking said:

we’ve got a rule where we basically can add bravery for each rank of models we have to our bravery, which is something we had in 8th edition as well.

just this time they kinda forgot to give that special rule to any skaven unit.

 

Every RnF unit have warband special rule in skaven army. So they have +1ld per rank. Even ratogres (and reroll charge roll)

[JerekKruger]

4 minutes ago, Skreech Verminking said:

I’n guessing they didn’t think through it or forgot that the daughter of khaines come with two weapons.

it’s kinda similar to the skaven rule.

we’ve got a rule where we basically can add bravery for each rank of models we have to our bravery, which is something we had in 8th edition as well.

just this time they kinda forgot to give that special rule to any skaven unit.

Yep, sounds likely. Probably not helped by both Dark Elves and Skaven being legacy lists and therefore likely receiving less editing passes.

 

4 minutes ago, Skreech Verminking said:

Personally I think we should play those rules as we think it was intended, of course that would mean you would have to ask and tel your opponent first what the problem is.

if that has been dealt with using the rules as we think it was intended should be fine

especially at friendly games, at an event it might be worth asking the to what his opinion is on that

Completely agree. 

[Beliman]

I'm a bit confused about Drilled.

If one of your units is in Marching Column, after declaring their charge target, can they redress the ranks to allow a charge move?

[JerekKruger]

21 minutes ago, Beliman said:

I'm a bit confused about Drilled.

If one of your units is in Marching Column, after declaring their charge target, can they redress the ranks to allow a charge move?

Looks that way to me. Drilled seems to be a pretty powerful ability.

[Wnerva]

18 minutes ago, Beliman said:

I'm a bit confused about Drilled.

If one of your units is in Marching Column, after declaring their charge target, can they redress the ranks to allow a charge move?

At this point its not clear.

In my country the consensus is that You can. You can even, If You are in 5x2 formation, change it to 10x1 and charge it.

Personally i think that You cant! Coz of this rule:

But they argued that, because its free, You can do it. We just need to w8 for official response.

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

1 hour ago, Wnerva said:

At this point its not clear.

In my country the consensus is that You can. You can even, If You are in 5x2 formation, change it to 10x1 and charge it.

Personally i think that You cant! Coz of this rule:

But they argued that, because its free, You can do it. We just need to w8 for official response.

The argument that I have seen is that you can do it because drilled allows you to reform before the charge, rather than during. Because of that, the rule you quoted supposedly does not apply.

The real answer is "it is unclear", though.

[Euls]

2 hours ago, Skreech Verminking said:

we’ve got a rule where we basically can add bravery for each rank of models we have to our bravery, which is something we had in 8th edition as well.

just this time they kinda forgot to give that special rule to any skaven unit.

They didn't forget it, scurrying masses is for the bell and the furnace. All other rank & file units already have warband and do not need this, so it's obviously intended. It means the bell/furnace won't be stuck with a horrendously low Ld, now that they cannot join any unit.

 

 

[alyra]

21 hours ago, Sception said:

imo mounted monsters should use the lower of the monster or the rider's armor save.  the mounts save then becomes a cap on the rider's armor save, but there's still a reason to give the rider armor or a shield.

that would be an easy and okish fix. i think it wouldnt be enough to, it would be  a nerf to non dragons monsters, that are allready ok only, not nedding a nerf.

but dragon would keep being too good, since his armor is also too good, better than other monsters. this would only change his armor from 2+/5+/5++ to a 3+/5+/5++, i think it would be better to do that AND making dragons not being able to use a regen, having a 3+/5++ is allready enough toughness in my opinnion.

[Wnerva]

2 minutes ago, alyra said:

but dragon would keep being too good, since his armor is also too good, better than other monsters. this would only change his armor from 2+/5+/5++ to a 3+/5+/5++

dragons have full plate, so it would be 4+/5+/5+, which is an easy fix as You say. And a great one too. Cannons would have an easier chance to kill it!