AoS 2 - Ossiarch Bonereapers Discussion

[Archibald]

Just wanted to share my progress on my Bonereapers army with you guys.:)

[Heijoshin]

The new "only one after save" rule is going to be interesting with how the Aegis Immortal battalion will work. 

Let's say you have Empower Nadarite Shields on the Immortis guard, or the Archai is the body guard. You can declare the soulbound protector rule before the 6+ death save on the hero, as it states "before" allocating a wound or mortal wound. On a 2-4 you pass on the wound to the Immortis or Archai and a 5+ the wound or mortal wound is negated all together. Simple so far. But with the new rule, does that mean that if I only get a 2-4, do I still get to do the Archai 5+ after save (or an Immortis Empower Nadarite Shield) on Mortal Wounds, or 6+ death save on regular wounds, because no true after save was made? Technically it's a shrug to minion ability after all. Could be a nice cheeky way around the new ruling. 

Aegis Immortal meta inbound!? We all laughed before at the Aegis Immortal before, but looks who's laughing now.....

[Sception]

An interesting question that will require FAQ, but I still don't see Aegis Immortal being competitive.  Nearly 700 points on 8 models with very little offense of their own, that mostly exist to soak wounds for expensive heroes you haven't even purchased yet?  I just don't see that flying in a 2k point competitive format.  Fun in 5k point narrative big games, though.

Maybe if the immortis CA gets erratad to let them fight with halberds and shields, and if the archai scroll gets more or less completely re-written to have more of a point for them before you layer on the battalion rules.

[Heijoshin]

11 minutes ago, Sception said:

An interesting question that will require FAQ, but I still don't see Aegis Immortal being competitive.  Nearly 700 points on 8 models with very little offense of their own, that mostly exist to soak wounds for expensive heroes you haven't even purchased yet?  I just don't see that flying in a 2k point competitive format.  Fun in 5k point narrative big games, though.

Maybe if the immortis CA gets erratad to let them fight with halberds and shields, and if the archai scroll gets more or less completely re-written to have more of a point for them before you layer on the battalion rules.

Sure, I was mostly being sarcasting regarding the viability  

Still will be an interesting rules interaction for GW to sort out. 

[ACBelMutie]

37 minutes ago, Heijoshin said:

The new "only one after save" rule is going to be interesting with how the Aegis Immortal battalion will work. 

Let's say you have Empower Nadarite Shields on the Immortis guard, or the Archai is the body guard. You can declare the soulbound protector rule before the 6+ death save on the hero, as it states "before" allocating a wound or mortal wound. On a 2-4 you pass on the wound to the Immortis or Archai and a 5+ the wound or mortal wound is negated all together. Simple so far. But with the new rule, does that mean that if I only get a 2-4, do I still get to do the Archai 5+ after save (or an Immortis Empower Nadarite Shield) on Mortal Wounds, or 6+ death save on regular wounds, because no true after save was made? Technically it's a shrug to minion ability after all. Could be a nice cheeky way around the new ruling. 

Aegis Immortal meta inbound!? We all laughed before at the Aegis Immortal before, but looks who's laughing now.....

I think the rule doesn't work in that way. You allocate a wound when it wasn't saved or negated, so you can't try to negate or save an "allocated wound". If not, you could use 6++ on Immortis Guard after allocating them a wound, but you can't.

Greetings.

[Heijoshin]

24 minutes ago, ACBelMutie said:

I think the rule doesn't work in that way. You allocate a wound when it wasn't saved or negated, so you can't try to negate or save an "allocated wound". If not, you could use 6++ on Immortis Guard after allocating them a wound, but you can't.

Greetings.

This is where I'm not sure, because the soulbound protector works "before" allocating a wound or mortal wound. The 6+ death save says "each time you allocate". So reading it in the typical sense of GW one could say you could pass it on first. 

Also if its the case where the hero has to do the 6+ first, then when you do the soulbound protector rule, what would happen if you get a 5+? Because the battalion essentially says " instead of passing it on, negate it instead". This would mean you fail to pass on a wound on a 1, 5 or a 6. 

 

 

[ACBelMutie]

58 minutes ago, Heijoshin said:

This is where I'm not sure, because the soulbound protector works "before" allocating a wound or mortal wound. The 6+ death save says "each time you allocate". So reading it in the typical sense of GW one could say you could pass it on first. 

Also if its the case where the hero has to do the 6+ first, then when you do the soulbound protector rule, what would happen if you get a 5+? Because the battalion essentially says " instead of passing it on, negate it instead". This would mean you fail to pass on a wound on a 1, 5 or a 6.

I asked that question long time before in this forum about the Necromancer skill to relocate wounds and I was told:

1. The Necromancer tries to save with his 6+ Save.
2. After that, he can use his 6++.
3. Finalyy he uses his 4++ relocate and those wounds are direct damage. If he relocates 5 wounds, 5 Skeletons, Chainrasps, etc die because you are allocating unsaved and "unnegated" wounds.

Greetings

[Sception]

14 minutes ago, ACBelMutie said:

I asked that question long time before in this forum about the Necromancer skill to relocate wounds and I was told:

1. The Necromancer tries to save with his 6+ Save.
2. After that, he can use his 6++.
3. Finalyy he uses his 4++ relocate and those wounds are direct damage. If he relocates 5 wounds, 5 Skeletons, Chainrasps, etc die because you are allocating unsaved and "unnegated" wounds.

Greetings

That was the case back when LoN was released, but iirc things have changed since then, moving relocation effects forward to technically happen before allocation.

[Grimoriano]

5 hours ago, ACBelMutie said:

I asked that question long time before in this forum about the Necromancer skill to relocate wounds and I was told:

1. The Necromancer tries to save with his 6+ Save.
2. After that, he can use his 6++.
3. Finalyy he uses his 4++ relocate and those wounds are direct damage. If he relocates 5 wounds, 5 Skeletons, Chainrasps, etc die because you are allocating unsaved and "unnegated" wounds.

Greetings

Nop, 6+, then 4+, if it fails 6++.

[Obeisance]

So we didn't get any point changes?

I hear we'll get hit in an FAQ or something.

[Sception]

Books more recent than cities are getting their points updates in a later pdf, and that includes us.  means there likely won't be leaks with confirmed changes before the actual changes are out.  Rumored points decreases to morghasts (wonpt make a difference), stalkers (nice), and immortis (might make a difference, edp with loss of layered saves).  Also rumors of errata to our book, maybe nerfing petrifex.  But that's all just rumors, might not mean anything.

[Nezermoar]

On 7/7/2020 at 6:34 AM, Obeisance said:

So we didn't get any point changes?

I hear we'll get hit in an FAQ or something.

nope, waiting for FAQ after ghb realese

Edited July 8, 2020 by Nezermoar
wrong branch

[El H.D.H.]

I'm starting with OBR, I've ordered 2 boxes of 20 Mortek Guard. Should I build them as 2 units of 20 or 4 units of 10? And should I give them spears or swords?

[chosen_of_khaine]

53 minutes ago, El H.D.H. said:

I'm starting with OBR, I've ordered 2 boxes of 20 Mortek Guard. Should I build them as 2 units of 20 or 4 units of 10? And should I give them spears or swords?

2 units of 20 with swords would be the optimal configuration, but I did 20 with swords and 20 with spears because the spears look better IMO. 

[El H.D.H.]

Well, that's good news, since I prefer how the swords look. 2 units of 20 swords it is.

[Sception]

13 minutes ago, El H.D.H. said:

Well, that's good news, since I prefer how the swords look. 2 units of 20 swords it is.

Swords is best, unless you play exclusively against nighthaunt.  If you go with swords, then you can take or leave greatsword upgrades.  They're technically barely better than swords, but by such a minimal amount that it's not really worth caring about, especially if you get the 'empower nadirite weapons' buff on them, as the greatswords aren't nadirite for some reason.  You could choose to sacrifice strength for aesthetics if you really loved the look of the spears, in which case you'd definitely want to take as many greatswords as you can - ie 1 in 10, but that's not an issue for you.  Whether you pick swords or spears, definitely stick with that decision for your first 40 morteks, so you at least have the option of fielding them as a single large unit.

When it comes to unit size, you ideally want to build them such that you could use them in whatever unit sizes you want.  2x20 - with 5 kavalos to round out battleline requirements, is common at 2k.  But 1x40 plus 2x5 kavalos is a meaningful alternative that you might want to play around with.  And though they're less common at 2k points, sometimes minimum strength mortek units can be useful to camp objectives or fill out battleline or formation requirements, so it's nice to keep the option open.

This means means one standard per 10 guys, which is no biggie since larger units can have multiple standards, and ideally want to take as many as they can to avoid the few model sniping abilities in the game.  Champions get a bit more complicated, since the unit can only ever have one champion at a time.  I recommend having three tiers of champion model - one senior champion, more championy than all the other champions, so that they're clearly the unit leader when you field them as a unit of 40, one mid level champion to be a second champion when you field two units of 20, and two lower level champions to use when you field them as 4 units of 10.  What I did was assemble the senior champion with the actual champion sword and crested helmet bits.  The second champion also used the champion head and sword bits, but with the helmet's fancy crest clipped off.  Finally I have two junior champions distinguished from the regular soldiers in the unit by using the slightly fancier necrophoros heads.  That way I can field the 40 dudes as however many units of whatever size I like, and there's never a question of who the leader of a given unit is.

Edited July 8, 2020 by Sception

[Cargo Cult]

Handbook 2020 arrived this morning. Confirmed no changes.

[Sception]

They already announced that post-cities books are getting points updates in a separate pdf later on.

[Climb]

On 7/11/2020 at 4:08 AM, Sception said:

They already announced that post-cities books are getting points updates in a separate pdf later on.

Where did they announce that? I'm super curious

[Saodexan]

1 hour ago, Climb said:

Where did they announce that? I'm super curious

On warhammer community ( https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/07/02/generals-handbook-matched-play/ )

[Kiekeboe]

Let's say Petrifex gets an adjustment to bring it more in line with other legions, could we see Null Myriad being a viable option? 

Once tournaments start back up again after the lockdowns end we're very likely going to be in a completely different meta and I'm guessing it's going to be a magic heavy meta, especially with the updated Tzeentch/Seraphon and Lumineth being released. Would a Null Myriad list offer a solid answer against the stupid amounts of mortal wounds flying around?

[ACBelMutie]

I'm not sure they will touch Petrifex after the changes in the General's (no stacking especial saves). Anyway, if they change Petrifex, I think they will touch or the +1 save and make it in a different way (ignores rend -1 for example) or they will modify the the extra rend for 1 CP. If they modify one of those things, Petrifex will still be probably the best subfaction. The other Option would be Praetorians with Katakros, but there are a lot of people arguing about him in the lists (they dislike him a lot), so I'm not sure what GW is going to do.

Greetings

[Sception]

Unless katakros gets a points increase or some other nerf, then yeah, if they kill petrifes then praetorians with katakros probably becomes the default best legion, which if anything, would be a worse situation for list variety due to forcing 500 points of katakros, where as petrifex is at least a blanjet buff that works for anything and thus doesn't impact unit selection.

I dont see null myriad taking off at all.  Their spell negation is too situational, too unreliable without the ca, and drains rdp too fast if you try to spam the ca against armies like tzeentch that spam enough offensive magic to consider null myriad in the first place.  The relic and ca aren't terrible, but need a bigger, killier hero than a liege kavalos to really shine, and even then probably aren'y better than generic obr alternatives.  I'm not saying Null myriad is terrible or anything, they're no ivory host, but I don't think they're serious contenders with stalliarch or praetotians with katakros for next in line if the petrifex get nerfed.

[Talas]

Hey guys, I've been playing with the Anvil of Apotheosis rules looking for a mix of Soulreaper and Boneshaper, a model with a 2" weapon slightly punchy that can revive dudes. This example goes up to 160 points.

OBR 5
Scythe 1
Superior Vitality 1
Extra Armour 2
Mighty Weapon 2
Frenzy 3
Weapon Master 2

Total: 16

How would you tweak it? Oh, I will be using a converted Necron Overlord in a 40mm base for model.

[AngryPanda]

2 hours ago, Talas said:

Hey guys, I've been playing with the Anvil of Apotheosis rules looking for a mix of Soulreaper and Boneshaper, a model with a 2" weapon slightly punchy that can revive dudes. This example goes up to 160 points.

OBR 5
Scythe 1
Superior Vitality 1
Extra Armour 2
Mighty Weapon 2
Frenzy 3
Weapon Master 2

Total: 16

How would you tweak it? Oh, I will be using a converted Necron Overlord in a 40mm base for model.

I haven’t gotten my hands on the Anvil of Apotheosis rules yet, but from what I do know is that Ossiarchs have much more efficient and consistent  means to heal themselves/restore models. Unless you’re going for a narrative play style and not a competitive one, I’d drop the Orb of Shaping spell and figure out another means to improve his capabilities.