Squatting Watch: Alerts for Discontinued Models

[Thiagoma]

3 minutes ago, Clan's Cynic said:

It's almost as if there was a Battletome meant for old Empire/Elf/Dwarf models announced in the last week and people were getting excited for using their old collection or something.

I can't help but laugh that you somehow have a 'gripe' with older models you dislike still being available. It's a bit rich you saying people are 'crying' when old models being available somehow manages to upset you.

This. Thank you!

[Whitefang]

6 hours ago, xking said:

Is taal even still alive? The affected by nurgle right?

At least he is hinted alive in a novel, worshipped by Ghurite.

I think I need some time to find out which novel it is, it has been a long time...

[zilberfrid]

1 hour ago, Whitefang said:

At least he is hinted alive in a novel, worshipped by Ghurite.

I think I need some time to find out which novel it is, it has been a long time...

In https://whfb.lexicanum.com/wiki/Kharza it was Sacrosanct and other stories.

In my head canon, he's alive, and that's enough for me.

[overtninja]

11 hours ago, Zanzou said:

This isn't true at all.  The AoS team has just normalized this for you guys to the point that you think it is acceptable and the status quo.  If they ever sold something under the "AoS" box, they should have kept supporting it until the game of "AoS" is no longer supported.  I could point you to several wargames that do not do this greedy bs, trying to get you to buy the latest thing if you want to feel "safe".

Back in WHFB they replaced their entire metal range with new plastic sprues, for almost every army. Those that weren't eventually given at least some plastic kits were eventually discontinued. Halflings used to be a thing, for instance, Dwarves used to wear Renfair clothing like The Empire, Wood Elves looked like Robin Hood: Men in Tights, but with massive mohawks (the new Bloodbowl models have a similar aesthetic), and there were rather a lot of old war machine kits in metal that were replaced, notably for Skaven, Chaos, Dwarves, Empire, Orcs&Goblins...

You get the idea. There has always been significant roll-over for models as technology advances, molds wear out, and the company responsible wants to give their customers something new to model, construct and paint - and give new players something to acquire. GW does want to make new models for things as much as possible, and that eventually means getting rid of everything currently available over time and creating new things. 

This doesn't mean you have to buy them, of course - but GW's business model is to make you want to. If you as a customer sour to their practices because you've grown very attached to the models you've had for, at this point, potential decades, that's largely on you. They've supported them with rules and/or points for the whole stretch of AoS, they know people have genuine affection for their collections and they've not disrespected that imo.

They even kept a lot of old metal models in circulation with Finecast (which was sadly rubbish in the end, but an honest effort to keep their metal molds usable instead of junking all of them at once), which was a costly prospect for them in terms of development and didn't even end up breaking even. They wouldn't have done that if they didn't care about people being able to buy those models for as long as possible.

That said, new collectors shouldn't have to buy 15 year-old models when GW can make much better things now, with the altered aesthetic they are currently developing their games with. It's also important to remember that just because you buy a thing it doesn't mean that thing will be useable forever, or that it will always be a current thing. You don't have to buy the latest thing to be 'safe', but if you buy the oldest thing, you should probably keep in mind that the oldest things will be the first to be discontinued or otherwise replaced with newer things.

Let's be honest, the old WHFB ranges are not, in the end, AoS minis, and expecting all of them to be produced for the entire stretch of AoS's life is unrealistic. It's sad to see them go, but at this point it's a matter of stock and a genuine need to produce new things as a company.

[zilberfrid]

15 minutes ago, overtninja said:

Back in WHFB they replaced their entire metal range with new plastic sprues, for almost every army. Those that weren't eventually given at least some plastic kits were eventually discontinued. Halflings used to be a thing, for instance, Dwarves used to wear Renfair clothing like The Empire, Wood Elves looked like Robin Hood: Men in Tights, but with massive mohawks (the new Bloodbowl models have a similar aesthetic), and there were rather a lot of old war machine kits in metal that were replaced, notably for Skaven, Chaos, Dwarves, Empire, Orcs&Goblins...

You get the idea. There has always been significant roll-over for models as technology advances, molds wear out, and the company responsible wants to give their customers something new to model, construct and paint - and give new players something to acquire. GW does want to make new models for things as much as possible, and that eventually means getting rid of everything currently available over time and creating new things. 

This doesn't mean you have to buy them, of course - but GW's business model is to make you want to. If you as a customer sour to their practices because you've grown very attached to the models you've had for, at this point, potential decades, that's largely on you. They've supported them with rules and/or points for the whole stretch of AoS, they know people have genuine affection for their collections and they've not disrespected that imo.

They even kept a lot of old metal models in circulation with Finecast (which was sadly rubbish in the end, but an honest effort to keep their metal molds usable instead of junking all of them at once), which was a costly prospect for them in terms of development and didn't even end up breaking even. They wouldn't have done that if they didn't care about people being able to buy those models for as long as possible.

That said, new collectors shouldn't have to buy 15 year-old models when GW can make much better things now, with the altered aesthetic they are currently developing their games with. It's also important to remember that just because you buy a thing it doesn't mean that thing will be useable forever, or that it will always be a current thing. You don't have to buy the latest thing to be 'safe', but if you buy the oldest thing, you should probably keep in mind that the oldest things will be the first to be discontinued or otherwise replaced with newer things.

Let's be honest, the old WHFB ranges are not, in the end, AoS minis, and expecting all of them to be produced for the entire stretch of AoS's life is unrealistic. It's sad to see them go, but at this point it's a matter of stock and a genuine need to produce new things as a company.

Halflings were deleted from the game, so that's an apt comparison.

Replacing old models with new ones is not what is happening. This is replacing units and heroes with nothing, as the warscrolls are going to legends.

In 40k and fantasy battle, correct me if I'm wrong, but I think compartively few units were entirely disallowed from playing in tournaments.

AoS is rife with that, and that fact makes me quite unwilling to sink money in it.

[Luke82]

26 minutes ago, overtninja said:

Back in WHFB they replaced their entire metal range with new plastic sprues, for almost every army. Those that weren't eventually given at least some plastic kits were eventually discontinued. Halflings used to be a thing, for instance, Dwarves used to wear Renfair clothing like The Empire, Wood Elves looked like Robin Hood: Men in Tights, but with massive mohawks (the new Bloodbowl models have a similar aesthetic), and there were rather a lot of old war machine kits in metal that were replaced, notably for Skaven, Chaos, Dwarves, Empire, Orcs&Goblins...

You get the idea. There has always been significant roll-over for models as technology advances, molds wear out, and the company responsible wants to give their customers something new to model, construct and paint - and give new players something to acquire. GW does want to make new models for things as much as possible, and that eventually means getting rid of everything currently available over time and creating new things. 

This doesn't mean you have to buy them, of course - but GW's business model is to make you want to. If you as a customer sour to their practices because you've grown very attached to the models you've had for, at this point, potential decades, that's largely on you. They've supported them with rules and/or points for the whole stretch of AoS, they know people have genuine affection for their collections and they've not disrespected that imo.

They even kept a lot of old metal models in circulation with Finecast (which was sadly rubbish in the end, but an honest effort to keep their metal molds usable instead of junking all of them at once), which was a costly prospect for them in terms of development and didn't even end up breaking even. They wouldn't have done that if they didn't care about people being able to buy those models for as long as possible.

That said, new collectors shouldn't have to buy 15 year-old models when GW can make much better things now, with the altered aesthetic they are currently developing their games with. It's also important to remember that just because you buy a thing it doesn't mean that thing will be useable forever, or that it will always be a current thing. You don't have to buy the latest thing to be 'safe', but if you buy the oldest thing, you should probably keep in mind that the oldest things will be the first to be discontinued or otherwise replaced with newer things.

Let's be honest, the old WHFB ranges are not, in the end, AoS minis, and expecting all of them to be produced for the entire stretch of AoS's life is unrealistic. It's sad to see them go, but at this point it's a matter of stock and a genuine need to produce new things as a company.

There’s definite truth in this, but it is handled appallingly by GW. The latest GHB made a big thing of mercenary units that they planned on deleting, likely to help shift the last of the stock. It was the same when they released a community article bigging up the Orc Warboss whilst planning to delete him and his compadres from the game in a week or two (I know, I know, legends is available, but playing AoS without the latest filth list is generally an exercise in futility so telling people they can still use them in legends is bunk).

The writing was on the wall for classic armies but I am sad that GWs awesome minis are no longer available for other games. The classic tropes are classic for a reason and a lot of people like them, despite all the ‘burn the old world stuff’ kids on here. The proposed notice of these models going out of production was a fable, so folks are gonna be cheesed off.

It’s perhaps a necessary evil, but crickey it is done in a lousy way.

[overtninja]

13 minutes ago, Luke82 said:

There’s definite truth in this, but it is handled appallingly by GW. The latest GHB made a big thing of mercenary units that they planned on deleting, likely to help shift the last of the stock. It was the same when they released a community article bigging up the Orc Warboss whilst planning to delete him and his compadres from the game in a week or two (I know, I know, legends is available, but playing AoS without the latest filth list is generally an exercise in futility so telling people they can still use them in legends is bunk).

 The writing was on the wall for classic armies but I am sad that GWs awesome minis are no longer available for other games. The classic tropes are classic for a reason and a lot of people like them, despite all the ‘burn the old world stuff’ kids on here. The proposed notice of these models going out of production was a fable, so folks are gonna be cheesed off.

It’s perhaps a necessary evil, but crickey it is done in a lousy way.

I think GW also has to feel that it's disingenuous of them to promote old sculpts that they aren't happy with themselves, but they also don't want to be stuck with stock they can never shift. The people buying the older model ranges aren't necessarily new players, but for them they would represent a kind of 'trap', in a way - a model range that persists because of their existing fans but is not for new players to collect, because it's on the way out. For both new players and GW, it's better to discontinue the ranges at this point. A necessary evil, as you said. :{

The writing has been on the wall for a long while for the old model ranges, I'm afraid. Some of them have found new life in AoS as part of other factions or as their own new faction, augmented by new kits, but many are too generic, modeled too static, or otherwise simply not interesting or distinct enough to mesh with AoS's aesthetics.

I want to also be clear, as a Wanderers player, that I am more than a bit sad to lose all my cool heroes. I scratch-built several of them and heavily customized them to make them my own. I will find a way to use them, however I can, moving forward, and I genuinely hope everyone who has legacy models can find a way to do the same with their own collections.

GG can stuff it though, I have like 60 of the nerds and the best parts of the kit were the spites and little roots and things. Not going to miss them very much, especially if I can replace them with cool new archers. If not, I'll definitely be using them to represent some other bow-shooting unit, because I've got them. If I were a new player, though? I'd be interested in new hotness, the same way I was/am about Sylvaneth. 

Edited August 4, 2019 by overtninja

[zilberfrid]

8 minutes ago, overtninja said:

I think GW also has to feel that it's disingenuous of them to promote old sculpts that they aren't happy with themselves, but they also don't want to be stuck with stock they can never shift. The people buying the older model ranges aren't necessarily new players, but for them they would represent a kind of 'trap', in a way - a model range that persists because of their existing fans but is not for new players to collect, because it's on the way out. For both new players and GW, it's better to discontinue the ranges at this point. A necessary evil, as you said. :{

The writing has been on the wall for a long while for the old model ranges, I'm afraid. Some of them have found new life in AoS as part of other factions or as their own new faction, augmented by new kits, but many are too generic, modeled too static, or otherwise simply not interesting or distinct enough to mesh with AoS's aesthetics.

I want to also be clear, as a Wanderers player, that I am more than a bit sad to lose all my cool heroes. I scratch-built several of them and heavily customized them to make them my own. I will find a way to use them, however I can, moving forward, and I genuinely hope everyone who has legacy models can find a way to do the same with their own collections.

GG can stuff it though, I have like 60 of the ****** and the best parts of the kit were the spites and little roots and things. Not going to miss them very much, especially if I can replace them with cool new archers. If not, I'll definitely be using them to represent some other bow-shooting unit, because I've got them. If I were a new player, though? I'd be interested in new hotness, the same way I was/am about Sylvaneth. 

I am a new player, drawn to the humans on the side of good, which is a common thing for new players. Stormcast are 10 ft tall posthuman instruments of their god, and really don't fit the "normal dudes fighting monsters" trope, so I went with Freeguild. Did not expect to lose the general pictured in the warscroll, used in 90% of all Freeguild armies and the only option for the merc group.

I do not think it is fair to discontinue at this point, that point was four years ago.

Edited August 4, 2019 by zilberfrid

[overtninja]

2 minutes ago, zilberfrid said:

I am a new player, drawn to the humans on the side of good, which is a common thing for new players. Stormcast are 10 ft tall posthuman instruments of their god, and really don't fit the "normal dudes fighting monsters" trope, so I went with Freeguild. Did not expect to lose the general pictured in the warscroll, used in 90% of all Freeguild armies and the only option for the merc group.

Which general, the one on the horse, or the one on foot? If it's the latter, you can surely continue to use him as-is, I'd say. I also suspect there will be a new mounted option - though at this point if you're not riding some kind of he-man beasty that's not certain.

I've got a friend who did the same thing - started with a Khorne army but wanted to play normal people good guys. They retained most of their range, happily - which to me demonstrates that the 'normal dudes fighting monsters' angle is one that GW continues to like (in keeping with basically the whole tonal feeling of WHFB as well).

I'm hoping the new Free Cities tome leads to a lot of players bringing out their human, dwarf, and elf armies again, just like the new Skaven book encouraged a lot of players to dust off their awful rat collections. Best of luck!

Edited August 4, 2019 by overtninja

[zilberfrid]

7 minutes ago, overtninja said:

Which general, the one on the horse, or the one on foot? If it's the latter, you can surely continue to use him as-is, I'd say. I also suspect there will be a new mounted option - though at this point if you're not riding some kind of he-man beasty that's not certain.

I've got a friend who did the same thing - started with a Khorne army but wanted to play normal people good guys. They retained most of their range, happily - which to me demonstrates that the 'normal dudes fighting monsters' angle is one that GW continues to like (in keeping with basically the whole tonal feeling of WHFB as well).

I'm hoping the new Free Cities tome leads to a lot of players bringing out their human, dwarf, and elf armies again, just like the new Skaven book encouraged a lot of players to dust off their awful rat collections. Best of luck!

On horse, and I have another one with a warbanner. The one we currently have has a greatsword, so no shield, war banner, mount or even a pistol. Which is objectively the worst loadout for a general.

If the rest of the options are gone (I remember the time when I thought updated warscrolls would be a blessing), they really nerfed Freeguild.

At the moment, I can't really reccoment someone with an old army to return to Warhammer. GW does not seem interested in sparing them any thought but the bare minimum to keep them spending their money.

Edited August 4, 2019 by zilberfrid

[Turin Turambar]

9 minutes ago, overtninja said:

Which general, the one on the horse, or the one on foot? If it's the latter, you can surely continue to use him as-is, I'd say. I also suspect there will be a new mounted option - though at this point if you're not riding some kind of he-man beasty that's not certain.

there are night haunt units riding undead regular horses, those had to come from somewhere

[Turin Turambar]

6 minutes ago, zilberfrid said:

On horse, and I have another one with a warbanner. The one we currently have has a greatsword, so no shield, war banner, mount or even a pistol. Which is objectively the worst loadout for a general.

If the rest of the options are gone (I remember the time when I thought updated warscrolls would be a blessing), they really nerfed Freeguild.

I for one will wait for the battletome before I call out nerfs

 

as for squatting, I don't mind it if you can still use the army as something else (squat armies are still out there playing as imperial guard), but things like the skycutter and cannon have no use as alternative 

[overtninja]

Well, you've still got the Gryphon General, which is imo the best option if you want him to live more than a turn to buff your units' to-hit rolls. The ones on foot are really susceptible to being sniped off the board with direct damage spells in my experience, or beaten up with MW-generating abilities. Many armies can nuke them off the table in their first hero phase at this point, so you'll want as durable a Freeguild General as possible. Fielding a second one on foot for redundancy is a good bet in my opinion, though not as your primary.

With any luck you'll get a General riding a Demigryph or something rad like that.

Also, if serious tournaments are your thing, um... well, if you're not willing to employ the newest, nastiest, most imbalanced garbage faction with the most horrific list, you're not playing with the same intentions as the other players there. You'll be middle of the pack with good generalship, but otherwise you'll get trounced by whatever this month's aberrant grotesqueries are. 😜

This is okay, but in my opinion this game is more fun when you don't angle the entirety of the hobby to official tournament play, because it's such a narrow and demanding subset of the game that many armies simply can't hack it and it sucks the fun out of the entire hobby. Build the army you want, let your opponent know what you're using, and in most cases everyone will be okay with it and have no issues playing you.

[zilberfrid]

2 minutes ago, Turin Turambar said:

I for one will wait for the battletome before I call out nerfs

as for squatting, I don't mind it if you can still use the army as something else (squat armies are still out there playing as imperial guard), but things like the skycutter and cannon have no use as alternative 

At this point, it's up to GW to prove that they want me as a customer.

[overtninja]

4 minutes ago, Turin Turambar said:

there are night haunt units riding undead regular horses, those had to come from somewhere

Hmmm, good point - but normal dudes can ride the horses, generals should get giant bird-beasts or dino-monsters or something else cool.

3 minutes ago, Turin Turambar said:

I for one will wait for the battletome before I call out nerfs

 

as for squatting, I don't mind it if you can still use the army as something else (squat armies are still out there playing as imperial guard), but things like the skycutter and cannon have no use as alternative 

If I had a Skycutter, I'd put it on the ground, give them birds little legs with greenstuff, and be like 'alright this is my (insert current name) chariot!'

That cannon is crying out to be applied to other models for additional Dakka. If you've got the bits and stuff, you could construct a steam-walker with the cannon and other things to represent your Steam Tank, and you could repurpose the crew to be it's pilots, potentially with additional models.

Given, this is some work, but if you're willing to chop-shop your collection, anything is possible!

[zilberfrid]

2 minutes ago, overtninja said:

Well, you've still got the Gryphon General, which is imo the best option if you want him to live more than a turn to buff your units' to-hit rolls. The ones on foot are really susceptible to being sniped off the board with direct damage spells in my experience, or beaten up with MW-generating abilities. Many armies can nuke them off the table in their first hero phase at this point, so you'll want as durable a Freeguild General as possible. Fielding a second one on foot for redundancy is a good bet in my opinion, though not as your primary.

With any luck you'll get a General riding a Demigryph or something rad like that.

Also, if serious tournaments are your thing, um... well, if you're not willing to employ the newest, nastiest, most imbalanced garbage faction with the most horrific list, you're not playing with the same intentions as the other players there. You'll be middle of the pack with good generalship, but otherwise you'll get trounced by whatever this month's aberrant grotesqueries are. 😜

This is okay, but in my opinion this game is more fun when you don't angle the entirety of the hobby to official tournament play, because it's such a narrow and demanding subset of the game that many armies simply can't hack it and it sucks the fun out of the entire hobby. Build the army you want, let your opponent know what you're using, and in most cases everyone will be okay with it and have no issues playing you.

The general on griffin does something wildly different, buffs one unit's bravery and charge, not three unit's to hit and wounds. Also does not give a 24" aura of bravery.

[overtninja]

4 minutes ago, zilberfrid said:

At this point, it's up to GW to prove that they want me as a customer.

That's kind of what waiting for the Battletome is, I think - take a look at it before making your assessment. If you don't like what you see, you can examine your options from there. No reason not to take a look, though!

[overtninja]

1 minute ago, zilberfrid said:

The general on griffin does something wildly different, buffs one unit's bravery and charge, not three unit's to hit and wounds. Also does not give a 24" aura of bravery.

Hmm, that is a pickle! Still, I would be surprised if warscrolls don't get revised in the new book. Until then, the warscrolls still exist for your other dudes and you should continue to use them in your games until the new book comes out, imo. If you have to, use your old models with the current supported warscroll for the buffs at least - it's largely what you're bringing them for, anyway.

[Skreech Verminking]

Well I think we should wait and see, what We will get in the new tome.

should it reveal itself as an Desasters, that needs basically the hatet-stormthings, Fyreslayers etc as the backbone of every army,

I guess we are better of making our own tomes.

I have met people that have made some amazing not supported battletomes from Games workshop, and if we all work in someway together, I mean we could definitely make the ultimate free cities battletome, or dispossessed battletome etc.

There may be a chance that it won’t be Supported at all by any events held by games workshop or so, but in the end the game was meant to give the players an enjoyable evening.

So should it really be a desaster, I guess we still have a possibility.

 

 

Edited August 4, 2019 by Skreech Verminking

[Zanzou]

This is so disappointing to read.

2 hours ago, overtninja said:

They've supported them with rules and/or points for the whole stretch of AoS...

No they have not.

2 hours ago, overtninja said:

If you as a customer sour to their practices because you've grown very attached to the models you've had for, at this point, potential decades, that's largely on you.

This is so intellectually dishonest and disappointing. You know as well as I do that there are people that have recently bought and started building these armies (marketed for AoS) within the last year or two (AoS has only been around for 4 years), because they were sold for AoS. I didn't even play WFB, I am telling you how crappy this looks even from my perspective as a "new" player.  As a new player, I am telling you that we were not accustomed to the "GW treatment" yet.  So no, it's not the fault of these poor players for expecting GW to support AoS products for AoS.

2 hours ago, overtninja said:

That said, new collectors shouldn't have to buy 15 year-old models when GW can make much better things now....

Let's be honest, the old WHFB ranges are not, in the end, AoS minis...

You should have told that to GW before they decided to release (and even officially rebox and rebase many of them) ancient models with officially branded "AoS" support... only to remove that "support" after such a short time in AoS.  THAT is on GW. For the time that many of these models had in AoS, the rules for them were a complete joke and people here said things like "don't worry, just wait until they get a battletome before you complain about your investment"... That did not age well.

 

Edited August 4, 2019 by Zanzou

[Thiagoma]

2 hours ago, overtninja said:

Back in WHFB they replaced their entire metal range with new plastic sprues, for almost every army. Those that weren't eventually given at least some plastic kits were eventually discontinued. Halflings used to be a thing, for instance

That would be totally ok, except GW didnt replace the models with anything, they just removed.

Wanna give me new Swordmasters? Great, if they look cool i will buy then! New Dragons? Sure! New models? Heck yeah!

If the aproach was " you can use the ones you got, or this really cool new ones" would be amazing! But to remove whole factions is a terrible move. Take the Swordmasters change for instance, lets say you have 20 of the resin ones and GW released Spire of Dawn. Wouldnt you buy the way cooler ones? Sure!

Gw has a very inconsistent patterns.  It took then 3 years to give then a book and they kept metal models! Now they scrap almost all cool elven plastic because reasons. Just look at DoK or even Dark Elves. Melusai and Khinerai are gorgeous and made people keep buying older models as well.

They replaced something with nothing and that is the whole issue.

[dekay]

7 hours ago, 123lac said:

Agreed. I am astounded by the amount of crying over this. If you want an army that's going to be supported in aos then make sure it has a battle tome - this has always been standard advice.

My only gripe is that it has taken gw this long to finally cull these old models.

I'm asking absolutely honestly and don't want to sound antagonising, really, I just want to know your line of thought better:

Do you have a gripe with ogre cavalry units, savage orcs, black orcs, witch elves and other khainites, dryads and treemen, ghouls and strigoi vampires, vampire counts and skeletons, hexwraiths and spirits, lizardmen, skaven, beastmen and daemons of all four gods being kept and expanded into AoS factions as well? If not, what makes a difference for you?

Because when I thought about it, only AoS factions not based on old WFB kits are the Stormcast, Idoneth, Kharadons and Fyreslayers. 

[overtninja]

28 minutes ago, Zanzou said:

This is so disappointing to read.

No they have not.

This is so intellectually dishonest and disappointing. You know as well as I do that there are people that have recently bought and started building these armies (marketed for AoS) within the last year or two (AoS has only been around for 4 years), because they were sold for AoS. I didn't even play WFB, I am telling you how crappy this looks even from my perspective as a "new" player.  As a new player, I am telling you that we were not accustomed to the "GW treatment" yet.  So no, it's not the fault of these poor players for expecting GW to support AoS products for AoS.

You should have told that to GW before they decided to release (and even officially rebox and rebase many of them) ancient models with officially branded "AoS" support... only to remove that "support" after such a short time in AoS.  THAT is on GW. For the time that many of these models had in AoS, the rules for them were a complete joke and people here said things like "don't worry, just wait until they get a battletome before you complain about your investment"... That did not age well.

 

First point - yes, they have. Models for every army, even Tomb Kings, had rules in AoS from it's start. They were perhaps not the most competitive rules, but they were rules you could play with. I would actually hazard that the original rosters for legacy armies were actually rather strong and well put together, internal-balance speaking. Also, from the first release of points, those models also had points. 

Second - that statement was not for you, as a new player. That statement was for people who have had their models for the last 15 or more years, for armies from 6th, 7th, and 8th edition WHFB. And even then, would it be fair to say that you bought your army based on it's aesthetic appeal, or did you buy it based on the rules you knew they had in the current game? Either way, it's fair to say you did choose your army, which had rules current with the game. Unless you are a High Elf player, most of your models remain playable in the game currently. I don't think it's dishonest to say you bought a product for a game you wanted to play. What is dishonest is taking my statement about long-time players and applying it to new players, so that you could then be 'disappointed' by it (by a complete stranger on the internet, no less).

Your third point is somewhat agreeable, but for people who did in fact want to play with those models, it was nice to get them re-boxed with round bases, especially if they were short some models for their unit. It does, in fact, show that GW has supported those models for the game, for which they actually released products at various times (the campaign book set in the realm of fire was their first attempt to bring the older models into the game).

If you are complaining about the rules and how they play on the table - well, that quite literally IS on you, since they are freely available for you to peruse and make decisions on. However, I daresay that you did not make your entire decision on how powerful they were in the game, nor were you making an investment on the potential of superior rules-sets being released in the future. You bought the models you wanted, when you wanted, to play the game you wanted. I very much doubt you were lied to about how the models would play, or how they compared to other models, or otherwise.

[Ollie Grimwood]

Pretty close to all the discontinued models will “count as” as units that are staying which will make them work as part of the Cities of Sigmar book which means people will still be able to use those models. Of course that assuming keyword changes  which means that they no longer work in their current factions. 

There is precedent for discontinued models/faction to remain in the rules system.  In fact most of them have the only ones who seem to have totally vanished are the Gitmob. The Greenskins are still a full faction and the GH19 was released after they were discontinued. 

There’s plenty of precedent for these models to remain usable as themselves for at least another year and for longer as “counts as” 

[overtninja]

9 minutes ago, dekay said:

I'm asking absolutely honestly and don't want to sound antagonising, really, I just want to know your line of thought better:

Do you have a gripe with ogre cavalry units, savage orcs, black orcs, witch elves and other khainites, dryads and treemen, ghouls and strigoi vampires, vampire counts and skeletons, hexwraiths and spirits, lizardmen, skaven, beastmen and daemons of all four gods being kept and expanded into AoS factions as well? If not, what makes a difference for you?

Because when I thought about it, only AoS factions not based on old WFB kits are the Stormcast, Idoneth, Kharadons and Fyreslayers. 

Most of the old armies, including the ones being discontinued, got updates to their model ranges in 8th edition - and tellingly, those are the very same models that are staying. HE got the shaft because the new stuff they received went to other factions (SotW went to Wanderers, for instance, and they are a dual kit with Shadow Warriors, who are also staying, and Dark Riders share a kit with Doomfire Warlocks - Wood, Dark and High Elves were allied in the End Times). Goblins kept all their 8th edition kits and got all new squigs and - I'd say they are roughly 2/3 new models.

It is perhaps more useful to look at what models are being kept and how they form the basis of what might be made in the future rather than look at what is entirely new, because as you said, most armies are based on 8th edition WHFB minis rather than completely new. I suspect that at the time they were being sculpted AoS was already known to be a thing internally, and they were producing dynamically-posed kits with the intention of making the transition into rounded bases - but this is speculation on my part.