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Malakithe

AoS 2 - Orruk Warclans Discussion

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Rogue Idol's got the keywords now! Not sure when they uploaded the warscroll on forgeworld, but it's now legal in any OW list.

Everything else about the warscroll is the same, I think.

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45 minutes ago, soak314 said:

Rogue Idol's got the keywords now! Not sure when they uploaded the warscroll on forgeworld, but it's now legal in any OW list.

Everything else about the warscroll is the same, I think.

It lost the half damage taken and 4+ against mortals in favor of 5+ against all wounds. It also had the bravery aura changed to wholly within.

Edited by Belmail
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He can be scary now that he can be buffed by all the abilities 

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Speaking of the Rogue Idol, I ran this at my clubs monthly 2k event;

Allegiance: Big Waaagh!
Mortal Realm: Aqshy

Leaders
Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (460)
- General
- Boss Gore-hacka and Choppa
- Trait: Ironclad
- Artefact: Ignax's Scales
- Mount Trait: Mean 'Un
Wardokk (80)
- Lore of the Savage Beast: Breath of Gorkamorka
Wurrgog Prophet (160)
- Lore of the Savage Beast: Kunnin' Beast Spirits
Orruk Warchanter (110)
- Warbeat: Fixin' Beat

Battleline
30 x Savage Orruks (300)
- Stikkas
30 x Savage Orruks (300)
- Stikkas
5 x Orruk Brutes (140)
- Pair of Brute Choppas
- 1x Gore Choppas

Behemoths
Rogue Idol (400)

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Balewind Vortex (40)

Total: 1990 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 184

Ended up going 3-0, tabled all my opponents and only lost the Idol and the brutes once over three games

 
Edited by Garuun
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@Garuun Impressive! I'll try a idol list today with mainly IJ (haven't BS exepected shamans) will post the result!

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@Garuun I love the big blocks of Savage Orruks, they form a nice solid core of wounds/bodies that IJ can't get.

What were the winners and losers?

The balewind feels a bit off to me but that's because I'm not sure what it's for. Definitely like the mix of elite IJ and numerous BS though.

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Like your list @Garuun. Simple yet efficient!

On a side note, i tought I saw that in Big waaagh! you cannot use realm artefact? I guess that wasn't true?

Edited by broche

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15 minutes ago, broche said:

Like your list @Garuun. Simple yet efficient!

On a side note, i tought I saw that in Big waaagh! you cannot use realm artefact? I guess that wasn't true?

There’s some slightly funny wording wording saying ironjawz must take ironjawz artifact and bone splitterz must take bone splitterz artefact. It probably needs an FAQ as it’s obviously intended that you can still take realm artifacts just an IJ character can’t have a splitterz artifact. However currently RAW your opponent could argue you can’t take realm artifacts in a big waagh (even though I think it’s pretty obviously not the intent).

I would assume  if they were planning to not allow realm artifacts it would have been stated as such “heroes in a big waagh may not select realm artifacts “but it does need clarification. 

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45 minutes ago, Reuben Parker said:

There’s some slightly funny wording wording saying ironjawz must take ironjawz artifact and bone splitterz must take bone splitterz artefact. It probably needs an FAQ as it’s obviously intended that you can still take realm artifacts just an IJ character can’t have a splitterz artifact. However currently RAW your opponent could argue you can’t take realm artifacts in a big waagh (even though I think it’s pretty obviously not the intent).

I would assume  if they were planning to not allow realm artifacts it would have been stated as such “heroes in a big waagh may not select realm artifacts “but it does need clarification. 

RAW the Malign Sorcery artefact rules override the Allegiance rules. Specifically it states.

Quote

After choosing the allegiance for your army you can decide that it is from a specific Rortal Realm. If you do so, you can select any of your artefacts of power from either or both of the lists in this section for the realm you choose.

Hence

  1. You select Da Big Waaagh! as your allegiance.
  2. Ironjawz Heroes now select their artefacts from the Ironjawz table.
  3. Bonesplitterz Heroes now select their artefacts from the Bonesplitterz table.
  4. You now select a realm which you army comes from.
  5. Any of your artefacts can now be from that realm in addition to previously mentioned artefacts.

So due to the ordering in which these things happen the realm rules override a portion of the allegiance rules.

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15 hours ago, Malakree said:

@Garuun I love the big blocks of Savage Orruks, they form a nice solid core of wounds/bodies that IJ can't get.

What were the winners and losers?

The balewind feels a bit off to me but that's because I'm not sure what it's for. Definitely like the mix of elite IJ and numerous BS though.

I find that my idol runs out off buff range pretty quick, I also have it to up the range on the wurrgog warscroll spell so I can control more of the board, also can help me on the hero missions, getting s wurrgog down to a 2+ save is funny.

 

we had a much smaller field than we usually do, considering we just ran our tournament for the year the weekend prior, so we had Big Waaagh!, Ironjawz and then Trog heavy Gloomspite then a Greywater Fastness gunline, a legion of night death army and a Slaves to Darkness army that was flinging a mammoth around. I played the IJ and Gloomspite and the death army.

now I’m not saying I was against the strongest lists available, we just had a weekend of that so we played fun/experimental lists more than anything. But the sheer output of the idol and the mawkrusha was staggering, and the two wrecking balls in the list having 2+ saves and damage prevention rolls seems like the type of ****** that can square up to the likes of keepers of secrets and terrorgeists, which I suppose I’ll see how they’ll go when I help a club mate practise for Aus Masters 

Edited by Garuun
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Played my first game with the Warclans against a Gristlegore "Ghoul Patrol" army.

Couple of caveats: (first time both of us had played for quite a while; my list was a "bring stuff to see what it does" rather than hone a list yet; both of us forgot rules along the way, but it didnt have a major impact on the outcome).

Scenario - shifting objectives

My list:

Gordrakk, Wurgogg (General: command trait and artefacts to increase spell casting), Wardokk, 2 x warchanters.

30 savage orruks, 10 brutes, 10 ardboyz, 3 goregruntaz, Cogs

Major win to me - 19/18 points. Was very close to tabling him by the end of turn 5 and lost very little in return. With some more intelligent play I could have reduced his points a bit (see caveats above).

 

Take aways / interesting moments / notes:

Whilst Gordrakk didnt pay back his points back in terms of what he killed, the fact that he gave me 6 Waagh points a turn meant that from turn 2 onwards I could pop the Big Waagh ability every turn - meaning my turns were an overwhelming numbers of buffed attacks.

11 Savage Orruks killed a GKonTG from full health! They were buffed with everything (damned terrain), +1 attack / hit / wound from Waagh. The sheer number of attacks going through to be saved was totally overwhelming. They were also super quick: D6" move in hero phase (damage from damned terrain) + cogs + extra charge distance + double movement spell meant they travelled 30" in a single turn (and could have gone a lot further!)

At one point I had the Wurgogg prophet on +6 to cast, meaning most spells went off without fear of being dispelled. But it also meant his warscroll spell obliterated any horde units that came near him.

Whilst Cogs did benefit my opponent during the game, the extra movement was of greater value to me and the bloodthirsty orruks.

Throwing a unit of ardboyz or brutes buffed by a warchanter and the Big Waagh abilities will slaughter most things.

The goregruntaz died before I got to see how much they have improved! :( 

Having the big unit of 30 savage orruks meant that after some turn 1 "spreading" my footprint was pretty significant and blocked off any chance of important characters being alpha striked / flanked by reinforcements.

My opponent refused on a couple of occasions to double turn me, through concern he wouldnt kill enough to get value from this; but also more through fear of what my army could do to him through my own double turn. 

 

I'm going to use the list a couple of more times to get comfortable with rules, but I start to refine.

Already looking forward to my next game - such a fun army to play now.

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Are Arrowboys worth it in Big Waaagh! list?

My IJ collection is pretty well rounded with an MBoMK, MB, WS, 2 Start Collecting and 3x boxes of Brutes. I am thinking about playing IJ as well as Big Waaagh!
But the new book allows me to take in BS and now I am unsure if it's worth to invest in say 20 Arrowboys and a support hero given the lack of range and magic in IJ, or get me another Start Collecting Ironjawz because on how good Ardboys and GG become...

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7 minutes ago, Keilerei said:

Are Arrowboys worth it in Big Waaagh! list?

My IJ collection is pretty well rounded with an MBoMK, MB, WS, 2 Start Collecting and 3x boxes of Brutes. I am thinking about playing IJ as well as Big Waaagh!
But the new book allows me to take in BS and now I am unsure if it's worth to invest in say 20 Arrowboys and a support hero given the lack of range and magic in IJ, or get me another Start Collecting Ironjawz because on how good Ardboys and GG become...

Personally I would say yes, arrowboys bring several things to the table. First is pure bodies, while they aren't quite as cheap (no massive regiment) or have the extra save vs melee they are also the only ranged unit that Da Big Waaagh! has access to.

30 Arrowboys and a Maniak Weirdnob is 480 points for a ridiculous amount of ranged firepower, around 23 hits +/- 5, all with -1 against monsters. It's a solution to always fights first/slaanesh which doesn't involve hoping you survive their attacks first. It also gives you some pretty solid hero sniping potential giving you ~60% odds to kill a 5 wound hero with a 3+ save. 

You then add on 30 Savage Orruks for more bodies and a second target for the Maniak buff and you have the solid start to an army.

Quote

Allegiance: Big Waaagh!

Leaders
Maniak Weirdnob (120)

Battleline
30 x Savage Orruk Arrowboys (360)
30 x Savage Orruks (300)
- Stikkas

Total: 780 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 126

126 wounds, 60 bodies and 2 of your battleline with 1220 points remaining. 

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Does double dragon has a place in big waagh?

What do you guys think?

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1 hour ago, Planar said:

Does double dragon has a place in big waagh?

What do you guys think?

I think perhaps although chews up a lot of points. 

Obviously needs a battalion to maximize with a second artifact as well. 

Then I would do the super survivable 

ironclad and Ignax scales with mean un 

then a destroyer with weird un. 

The destroyer one comes down the middle and puts out insane damage then probably dies. Whilst your general plays around the edges a bit more building up wounds and attacks and once the game is stretched the opponent shouldn’t have anything left to really hurt him. 

Either with a kunnin rukk for range or a ardfist for recursion.  

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2 hours ago, Reuben Parker said:

I think perhaps although chews up a lot of points. 

Obviously needs a battalion to maximize with a second artifact as well. 

Then I would do the super survivable 

ironclad and Ignax scales with mean un 

then a destroyer with weird un. 

The destroyer one comes down the middle and puts out insane damage then probably dies. Whilst your general plays around the edges a bit more building up wounds and attacks and once the game is stretched the opponent shouldn’t have anything left to really hurt him. 

Either with a kunnin rukk for range or a ardfist for recursion.  

I'd actually go the other way with mount traits. Ironclad, ignix and weird un. Make it super hard to do anything to while at the same time being "less threatening" giving it time to build up. Skirmish with it right from the start rather than picking a real fight. Pull it back if the hammer comes towards it.

Then have the other one with destroyer and mean un. Keep it hovering around the middle And the moment a key target comes avalible buff it and throw it in to explode stuff. Its the kind of thing which would mince basically anything and your opponent either skirmishes, building up your general, or commits at which point you unleash the beast!

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thanks @Reuben Parker and @Malakree !

what about anvils/ objective holders/ support in a Big waagh DD list? ardboyz or savage booyz? MSUs or bigger units?

Weirdnob or wurgog?

1 chanter or 2?

So manyy choices! My IJ brain is not used to so many choices 😂

 

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1 hour ago, Planar said:

what about anvils/ objective holders/ support in a Big waagh DD list? ardboyz or savage booyz? MSUs or bigger units?

Savage Orruks. 5 points a wound if you max them. The sheer quantity of wounds and bodies makes them much stronger in that anvil role.

For back line screening/objective holders possibly MSU arrowboys actually, or MSU Ardboys. Maybe a 20/20 Arrowboys Kunnin Rukk, gives a lot of bodies back field to screen who can still contribute to the fight. 

That said I actually really like either of the Boarboys for back line screens. The oval bases allow for a lot of space denial, they have the wounds and are less susceptible to battleshock. More importantly they are a massive threat for point sniping, especially at high Waaagh! levels. You're opponent leaves a point under defended and they are moving 12, charging +3 with a ton of attacks from their model count.

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Yeah I can see switching the traits round to double up on each ones specific role (I love how many viable builds are in the new book).

in terms of other things I really have no idea what the correct mix of units and BS to IJ is in a big waagh. I kind of think there’s no right answer probably and it can be successful in many forms. So far I’ve only got to play one game with IJ and none with big waagh in the new book. All I can say for certain is that MSU Brutes with choppas clan to give out triple chanter buff plus smashing and bashing was very powerful and MBoMK is so much better in this book compared to the old  

 

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I'm kinda sad that they didn't give the Rogue Idol some rule for adding Waagh points. 3-4 would have been very thematic for the army & lore

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I think the issue with Brutes is that their attack profile is waaaay too similar to Ardboyz.

They do slightly more damage, but they are worse in every other way (model count, base size, board control, mobility, bravery). 

Ardboyz are almost as good at fighting, and better at everything else, so I keep gravitating back to them.

You can certainly use Brutes, and they're pretty efficient for their points.  But I think you're probably using them because you like them, moreso than because they're a particularly effective part of an army build.

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21 hours ago, Garuun said:

I find that my idol runs out off buff range pretty quick

That'll happen when he is flying 30" :D

Good stuff.  You've also got my current preferred Maw Krusha loadout... great minds hey?

Edited by PlasticCraic

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I use Brutes because I like them. And do my best to get the most out of them hahaha

Would Brutes costing 120pts or having a horde bonus make them viable over Ardboys?

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1 hour ago, PlasticCraic said:

I think the issue with Brutes is that their attack profile is waaaay too similar to Ardboyz.

They do slightly more damage, but they are worse in every other way (model count, base size, board control, mobility, bravery). 

Ardboyz are almost as good at fighting, and better at everything else, so I keep gravitating back to them.

You can certainly use Brutes, and they're pretty efficient for their points.  But I think you're probably using them because you like them, moreso than because they're a particularly effective part of an army build.

It's actually pretty close. If you compute 3 metrics: pts per damage, pts per effective life, pts per model, you get:

Brutes: 14 / 4.66 / 28

Ardboys: 18.4 / 4.28 (factoring shield) / 18

Of course Ardboys get cool add on like the +2/-1 bravery, but most importantly the +2 to charge.  However Brutes could get a +1 to hits in some situation, going to a truly great 10.82 pts per damage, a very good ratio.  Also thanks to the gore hacka Brutes are one of the most effective units in Damage per covered area.

I think Brutes have exactly the same role as they had pre battletome: Don't expose them early to mitigate battleshock, using them in counterattack and try to hunt high wound target to leverage their hit bonus.

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15 hours ago, Malakree said:

30 Arrowboys and a Maniak Weirdnob is 480 points for a ridiculous amount of ranged firepower, around 23 hits +/- 5, all with -1 against monsters. 

Notably a wardokk for 80 points is nearly as likely to get a +1 to hit buff (which is in average as good as exploding sixes, with lower variance) off as the Weirdnob, so it might be a good include as well. Alternatively a wurrgog prophet does a lot of additional stuff for 160 PTs, especially with the option to use Waaagh points to make a 10+ cast more likely. Sadly its super easy and valuable to snipe.

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