The Rumour Thread

[Pizzaprez]

2 hours ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

You are completely right and it is important to point it out. An AoS faction that has had a battletome for 2 editions being removed without replacement would be an extraordinary development. Even if they remain playable in TOW.

Also important to point out: So far, no develoment on the AoS side has been done "with TOW in mind", as far as we can tell. TOW does not dictate the future of AoS factions.

 

Tbh GW has always had a habit of cutting whole factions, sub factions, and model ranges out of their game with no recourse for years now. It's a frustrating practice that has hit me personally enough times that I've dropped GW games in favor of things that are more model-agnostic: I hate my army going extinct.

Squats, for one

Tried Lost and the Damned right before they got dropped, made 90 mutants for it

Savage Orks were dropped before I was even into 40k

Chaos Dwarfs have been cut from GW games three times now, and with them starting as Legends in TOW it'll be four next edition.

GW cut Bretonnia and TK entirely from AoS after 1.0; I had bought models for both

Dropped legion of grief right after I bought a bunch of ghosts and vampires

GW cut HElves and WElves from cities despite them being a core part of the faction identity; my plan for my city was to have both. Also pistoliers got cut right after I converted some

I stopped building my AoS beastmen bc they were Slaanesh marked (marked beastmen were back!) and they promtly lost the ability to play nice with the Slaanesh demons id bought. Why did I collect all the Rogue Trader Keeper of Secrets to use as minotaurs, then?

GW wants to sell you toys. If they have decided that Beasts will sell better in TOW (especially with new plastic centigors being "new" for that game) they will completely drop them from AoS without a second thought. 

I'm extremely pessimistic about how GW handles this sort of thing. Theyll probably tell you to proxy them as kruleboyz or "try out TOW!"

Maybe they'll get an ApoS reboot. More likely imo they're being dropped to bulk out TOW with their intended-for-aos update(s)

Edited February 1 by Pizzaprez

[Ejecutor]

3 minutes ago, Pizzaprez said:

Tbh GW has always had a habit of cutting whole factions, sub factions, and model ranges out of their game with no recourse for years now. It's a frustrating practice that has hit me personally enough times that I've dropped GW games in favor of things that are more model-agnostic: I hate my army going extinct.

Squats, for kne

Tried Lost and the Damned right before they got dropped, made 90 mutants for it

Savage Orks were dropped before I was even into 40k

Chaos Dwarfs have been cut from GW games three times now, and with them starting as Legends in TOW it'll be four next edition.

GW cut Bretonnia and TK entirely from AoS after 1.0; I had bought models for both

Dropped legion of grief right after I bought a bunch of ghosts and vampires

GW cut HElves and WElves from cities despite them being a core part of the faction identity; my plan for my city was to have both. Also pistoliers got cut right after I converted some

GW wants to sell you toys. If they have decided that Beasts will sell better in TOW (especially with new plastic centigors being "new" for that game) they will completely drop them from AoS without a second thought. 

I'm extremely pessimistic about how GW handles this sort of thing. Theyll probably tell you to proxy them as kruleboyz or "try out TOW!"

Maybe they'll get an ApoS reboot. More likely imo they're being dropped to bulk out TOW with their intended-for-aos update(s)

Please, don't touch any more CoS units! Seems whatever you touch gets removed from the game!

[Ejecutor]

@Garrac, your Thursday mini: Heresy Thursday – Scout Fast and Strike Hard with the Hot Rod Sentinel of the Solar Auxilia - Warhammer Community (warhammer-community.com)

[Grungnisson]

2 minutes ago, Ragest said:

GW wants to sell stuff, if you come at the start of 3rd edition and say "hey, BoC is going to be squatted some point between 2024 and 2027" you automatically stop to sell them.

When GW announced the first Cities of Sigmar book (I seem to recall it was some time in July, with the book coming out the following October), they announced that 35 GA Order kits will be discontinued.

If memory serves, they all sold out following the announcement. You seriously underestimate people's love for models, in their own right. Especially, when there's a definite deadline to being able to aquire them.

So, if GW meant to keep producing those kits, then yes, it wouldn't make any sense to make such announcement. But equally, there'd be no better way to just shift the remaining stock off the shelves within a couple of weeks. 

[Luperci]

Just now, Grungnisson said:

When GW announced the first Cities of Sigmar book (I seem to recall it was some time in July, with the book coming out the following October), they announced that 35 GA Order kits will be discontinued.

If memory serves, they all sold out following the announcement. You seriously underestimate people's love for models, in their own right. Especially, when there's a definite deadline to being able to aquire them.

So, if GW meant to keep producing those kits, then yes, it wouldn't make any sense to make such announcement. But equally, there'd be no better way to just shift the remaining stock off the shelves within a couple of weeks. 

Ideally they'd make those kits print on demand before they get rid of all the existing stock forever 

[Gaz Taylor]

To quote something a great man said once....

Quote

The thing with rumours is that they are just rumours until something happens   

Please treat anything like Beasts of Chaos being dropped as a range as a rumour. Until it happens, its a rumour. If you are a BOC player, carry on playing with your models. If you are thinking about getting a BOC army, you might want to wait just in case.  

Yes GW are a company out to make money and yes they can change things without notice. But for now, take it with a pinch of salt  

[Pizzaprez]

19 minutes ago, Ejecutor said:

Please, don't touch any more CoS units! Seems whatever you touch gets removed from the game!

Fortunately I'd bought the sniper rifles for my Handgunners (I think that option is gone now) and had a Freeguild HQ guy sorted so those are out. I have a luminark and hurricanum and I think they're safe! Tbh I'm not touching my City until the faction gets another wave or two

I really hope the Beasts rumor is off-base. Give me a Morghur faction or something! Their narrative was cool! Why not have "dudes in the woods" be in both games?

Edited February 1 by Pizzaprez

[Garrac]

30 minutes ago, Ejecutor said:

@Garrac, your Thursday mini: Heresy Thursday – Scout Fast and Strike Hard with the Hot Rod Sentinel of the Solar Auxilia - Warhammer Community (warhammer-community.com)

I'll be honest, for some reason I thought they already revealed it on LVO.

[Ejecutor]

Sekhar, Fang of Nulahmia Warscroll:

Fangs of the Blood Queen – How Neferata’s Top Lieutenant Wages War - Warhammer Community (warhammer-community.com)
 

Edited February 1 by Ejecutor

[Thalassic Monstrosity]

2 hours ago, Hawke said:

This so much, BoC for me are the purest chaos and I want to see this in the models. They should be dark, twisted and secretive, so much that they make chaos god aligned factions think: "oof now that's a little much". They should be out in the woods conducting rituals that make no sense to bring about imcomprehensible dooms and omens. So much potential.

I love the goat and bull looks, mostly as they bring to life the old Christian aesthetics of what pagan evil looks like, and the fear of what happens when you stray further from civilization. What I'm saying is I want the devil goat, Black Phillip, from the film "the Witch" in model form 🤣

This is exactly how I feel! I know Morghur is popular but Malagor has always been my favorite, ever since I read his fluff about an Imperial town waking up to find his hoof prints all through the snow, over walls, onto roofs, et cetera. The reference to the Devil's Footprints legend pleased me.

[KingBrodd]

3 hours ago, OkayestDM said:

I'm of the mind that if something happens to BoC, it will be the current models shifting to TOW and a new range released for AoS. There's a lot of excellent design space for weird mutant beasties, but the "all goats" motif of current beasts does put a design limiter on how far they can stretch the envelope before the models don't look like they belong.

An overhaul would allow them to add Pestigors, Khorngors, and updated or faction specific chaos spawn, and then release rank-and-file BoC who tie the disparite god-specific beasts together aesthetically. 

There's a LOT of design space available if they overhaul BoC, I find it hard to believe that GW would pass up that kind of opportunity (especially since, as others have said, it allows them to create a copyrightable IP in the process.)

 

3 hours ago, Gitzdee said:

This might be an unpopular opinion. I would love for BoC to distance themselves from the god specific designs, those could still have a home in the other tomes. I would love to see a version of beasts i dont ever want to encounter in the woods. Keep the goats and bulls and add things like bears (honey RE?), badgers, moose etc and throw it in the AoSification mill.

I would love for Beasts of Chaos to interpret different animals and beasts into their ranks. Even if we keep the basics as AOS has untold numbers od creatures. Keep the Goats and Bovine but add in more.

Bears, Big Cats, Deer, Horses, Dogs. 

Just make them more beastly!!

[Flippy]

2 hours ago, Hollow said:

I personally do not agree with any of the positions above. I think that GW should be far more up-front and ruthless about the fact that some models will be released, supported for some time and then potentially removed. Done. The expectation that some GW customers have that if GW moves to "squat" something it is somehow a personal attack and they do not care about their customers is utterly absurd to me. A PLC like GW does not just stop selling products that sell well. 

You make some good points. At the same time, I don't think anyone would have the audacity to announce up-front that a faction has a limited lifespan. It would be a radical change of a decades-proven (WH40k) business model. For many people engaging with a faction is a years-long (if not lifelong, at this point) endeavour, and such announcement could very well mean that certain products are dead on arrival.

I firmly believe (and I've stated this before) that GW is not a miniatures company. Their business is a mixture of models, games and background - and their customers tend to assume that their armies will get at least official rules & stories (i.e. narrative presence) for as long as the game remains in existence. This effectively means that GW can get away with some pruning (people generally seem to understand that it is necessary) but they cannot fail the trust of their customers constantly.

I am currently willing to invest in Idoneth (and have already bought some). It will take me approx. a year to build and paint a small army, which means I don't really care about the current rules. The moment GW would announce that they intend to support this faction, say, for the next 5 years only, I sell everything and shift my attention elsewhere. Little plastic sculptures mean nothing without their ecosystem.

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

33 minutes ago, Ejecutor said:

Sekhar, Fang of Nulahmia Warscroll:

Fangs of the Blood Queen – How Neferata’s Top Lieutenant Wages War - Warhammer Community (warhammer-community.com)
 

Weird that she doesn't have The Hunger.

[Grungnisson]

1 minute ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

Weird that she doesn't have The Hunger.

She's a Vampire, but not a Vampire Lord, so maybe that's where the distinction is? 

[Pizzaprez]

10 minutes ago, Flippy said:

You make some good points. At the same time, I don't think anyone would have the audacity to announce up-front that a faction has a limited lifespan. It would be a radical change of a decades-proven (WH40k) business model. For many people engaging with a faction is a years-long (if not lifelong, at this point) endeavour, and such announcement could very well mean that certain products are dead on arrival.

I firmly believe (and I've stated this before) that GW is not a miniatures company. Their business is a mixture of models, games and background - and their customers tend to assume that their armies will get at least official rules & stories (i.e. narrative presence) for as long as the game remains in existence. This effectively means that GW can get away with some pruning (people generally seem to understand that it is necessary) but they cannot fail the trust of their customers constantly.

I am currently willing to invest in Idoneth (and have already bought some). It will take me approx. a year to build and paint a small army, which means I don't really care about the current rules. The moment GW would announce that they intend to support this faction, say, for the next 5 years only, I sell everything and shift my attention elsewhere. Little plastic sculptures mean nothing without their ecosystem.

I feel similarly to you! I *love* GW models but their rules are absolutely not it for "lemme buy these toys and I'll be able to use them for a decade!"

If something isn't in a battletome, assume it'll be gone within four years. If a battletome isn't selling well, don't assume it'll be there forever. If a sub faction is something GW wants to put on squares, get ready to consider your options. 

I don't really like that at all. However, I do understand that they can only make/produce/support so many factions. I feel like the "right" thing to do is to make that faction model agnostic and give it rules that'll be lightly tweaked and updated once an edition. 

I don't love seeing people's projects get "invalidated." Like, a nonzero amount of people got into Beastmen during 3.0; the "Era of the Beast." Assuming they didn't get into Beasts day 1, that means their time and financial investment will last... a mere few years?

Stuff like Lost and the Damned and Legion of Grief are "in the margins" armies from supplements: makes sense they wouldn't be around forever. But idk the culling that's been going on in 3.0 is my least favorite sort of GW.

Like when they axed all their free modelling tutorials on their website overnight.

[mawhis117]

19 minutes ago, Thalassic Monstrosity said:

This is exactly how I feel! I know Morghur is popular but Malagor has always been my favorite, ever since I read his fluff about an Imperial town waking up to find his hoof prints all through the snow, over walls, onto roofs, et cetera. The reference to the Devil's Footprints legend pleased me.

BoC as they currently exist are 3 separate factions souped together in my opinion. You have the "Regular" Beastmen, who hate Civilization, then you have the Morghurite Gavespawn, who are all about mutation and devolution, and then thirdly you have the Dragon Ogors and their grudge against Sigmar for kicking them out of Azyr. The three parts don't freally mesh well together I don't think

[Rotm]

21 minutes ago, Grungnisson said:

She's a Vampire, but not a Vampire Lord, so maybe that's where the distinction is? 

Every vampire in the book has it, including non hero units. Fell Bats have it. They just forgot.

[Grungnisson]

Triump and Treachery rules overview

YASSS

[Vasshpit]

27 minutes ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

Weird that she doesn't have The Hunger.

Or fly. Such a badass vamp to contain a God and be Nefs right hand but none of the basic traits of a vamp. 🤣😒

Oi.... 

[MitGas]

3 hours ago, Hawke said:

This so much, BoC for me are the purest chaos and I want to see this in the models. They should be dark, twisted and secretive, so much that they make chaos god aligned factions think: "oof now that's a little much". They should be out in the woods conducting rituals that make no sense to bring about imcomprehensible dooms and omens. So much potential.

I love the goat and bull looks, mostly as they bring to life the old Christian aesthetics of what pagan evil looks like, and the fear of what happens when you stray further from civilization. What I'm saying is I want the devil goat, Black Phillip, from the film "the Witch" in model form 🤣

I‘d like them to go to that place you‘ve painted such a nice picture of and add some more abominations to them. BoC could be so cool if done right. While I find their basic kits quite good for their age, we all know that BoC could truly shine with a bit of love.

[Rotm]

27 minutes ago, Grungnisson said:

She's a Vampire, but not a Vampire Lord, so maybe that's where the distinction is? 

Vampire Lord has nothing to do with the Hunger. Its not a tag between types its a specific unit name. Every Vampire in the book has Hunger, they just forgot which is very annoying because locking up a unit is half her value.

[Grungnisson]

1 minute ago, Vasshpit said:

Or fly. Such a badass vamp to contain a God and be Nefs right hand but none of the basic traits of a vamp. 🤣😒

Oi.... 

At 160 she's still spicy though. With Fly and Hunger, she would have to be around the 220-230 mark.

[Grungnisson]

11 minutes ago, Rotm said:

Vampire Lord has nothing to do with the Hunger. Its not a tag between types its a specific unit name. Every Vampire in the book has Hunger, they just forgot which is very annoying because locking up a unit is half her value.

They may occasionally forget a keyword on a warscroll, but not an ability. If it's not there, it's not there for a reason. And seeing how much more she does, I think it's to keep her points down (see just above).

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

1 minute ago, Grungnisson said:

They may occasionally forget a keyword on a warscroll, but not an ability. If it's not there, it's not there for a reason. And seeing how much more she does, I think it's to keep her points down (see just above).

I mean, they forgot to give Hammerers their command models in the Cities of Sigmar book...

I agree though it was probably intentional. It's just weird. Not really even convinced that her defensive ability is that much better than The Hunger in the first place.

[Lucentia]

I guess Ushoran doesn't have The Hunger either (or a directly equivalent ability à la Arkhan) and he's literally a vampire mortarch, so maybe they just decided that they don't need to slap such a valuable ability on every vampire in existence, who can say?