AoS 2 - Hedonites of Slaanesh Discussion

[Popisdead]

19 hours ago, Overread said:

MOD NOTICE

Please remember no posting/sharing of copyright material!! We are ALL excited (heck I am too) but PLEASE no sharing of copyright material - wait for "Man Reads Book" Which is only a day away or so. 

haha i watched The Honest Wargamer and was goign to dumb what he showed

17 hours ago, Carnith said:

Our 6 to hit ability is untouched. Locus changed to stop pile in. Depravity is gained by units being damaged but not being slain at the end of battleshock.

It removes it from Beasts of Chaos which was a really good effective way to run big units of Ungors and Bestigors.

17 hours ago, Jaskier said:

Did anyone else catch that Sigvald can kill Morathi in a single turn, and laughs at Gotreks' defenses? 

I think her wording is different regarding removing the DPR for Morathi so not sure he can.

10 hours ago, Enoby said:

 

Edit: I can imagine the Beasts of Chaos battalion would have a decent possibility to be erratad to give the hedonite keyword. 

I would hope,.. but GW... I mean we are already hoping they include Slaangors which I worry about.

7 hours ago, Enoby said:

 

I do wonder if the contorted epitome has changed significantly 

Me too.  So powerful before and for 9 summoning points I'm guessing still really effective and powerful.  OR,.. not.

6 hours ago, Feii said:

Looking at the Slaanesh Sigvald leaks he is a Mortal? I thought he is a demon prince of Slaanesh 😮

I don't think he's ever ascended to DP in the lore.  Even in 8th ed in the novel he just became a super baller chaos lord.

4 hours ago, Overread said:

I like that the Blissbarb riders are an ideal make of a skirmisher able to work at range and in close combat, but favouring range in general with the rending. It means their ideal is staying out at range, but that they aren't underperforming if they get caught or if you decide to charge them in to perhaps slow something down moving elsewhere or to support others in close combat etc... 

Same wounds as Bullgors >.<  W.... t.... efff...... sigh... 

1 hour ago, Benkei said:

260 for Sigvald sounds like a cruel joke for such a gorgeous model, i'd say Eltharion is at the very least comparable for 40 less points and with a Command Ability to boot

 

[Rivener]

4 minutes ago, Grimrock said:

Saw the slaangor warscroll on Reddit. It's... Pretty bad for 140 points. Damage output is terrible and they're going to die to a stiff breeze. I'm wondering if maybe there are some really powerful spells or command abilities that we're missing. Maybe a +1 damage or -2 rend or something. There must be something that makes them work. 

There isn’t. The entire tome has been leaked.

[Popisdead]

Soemthing that I was thinking about was the ability for a faster hero (possibly smaller, maybe Seeker chariot) to get up and turn 2 cast an Endless spell to tag multiple units for a min of 1 MW each.  Thinking Pendulum and Gravetide are lower casts that can do this.  IF you got 3-5 units that's a lot of Depravity.

Just musing based on not knowing if we will have casting buffs.  Gemenids would do a good job also cause of the 18" range then movement.  Burning head, RAvening Jaws and purple sun are also good options.

The DP generation alone seems to make an Endless spell a good include in nearly all lists. 

[TimeToWaste85]

Endless spell mirror chain to drop a purple sun/Ravenick’s jaws/burning head through, laugh if your opponent sends it back at you the next turn?

 

seems like a nasty trick we can pull for true shenanigans 

[Popisdead]

3 minutes ago, Rivener said:

There isn’t. The entire tome has been leaked.

I think compared to Bullgors they aren't bad.  Perhaps in BoC they will be more effective... >.<

[Popisdead]

3 minutes ago, TimeToWaste85 said:

Endless spell mirror chain to drop a purple sun/Ravenick’s jaws/burning head through, laugh if your opponent sends it back at you the next turn?

 

seems like a nasty trick we can pull for true shenanigans 

Weird I was told you cannot send endless spells through the portal on the Living City thread...

 

Oh man,.. the points for heroes on chariots really went up...

Edited February 12, 2021 by Popisdead

[Sorrow]

As others have said, the rules have been leaked. 

Overall, I am more than pleased.

We got beautiful models, new art and some very interesting new game mechanics and synergies for us.

 

[Enoby]

Some people are saying that the tome isn't powerful enough, but tbh I think it's just well balanced. Some things could come down in cost, but I think it's easy to forget that our summoning is army wide now so that's probably taken into account with points. In addition, there's rerolling available from the Lord of Pain and one of the battalions, we're very fast, Glutos is very good, Sigvald is a good assassin - we have a lot of moving parts without one stand out ridiculous unit which is good! The last thing you want to be is an army where only one warscroll is used. I think we're meant to use every part of this battletome rather than focus it around one unit; using Slickblades to harass on a charge, shoot at support pieces while a keeper or Sigvald or even fiends mow down the bigger models. Deal with hordes with the twin souls and hold objectives with painbringers while your army generates depravity points. 

Yeah, we don't have some dumb "40 attacks that do d3 mortal wound on every 5+ to hit" rule that'd send us skyrocketing to the top of the meta, but rather a very nuanced army that'll take a while to use well.

[Feii]

2 minutes ago, Enoby said:

Some people are saying that the tome isn't powerful enough, but tbh I think it's just well balanced. Some things could come down in cost, but I think it's easy to forget that our summoning is army wide now so that's probably taken into account with points. In addition, there's rerolling available from the Lord of Pain and one of the battalions, we're very fast, Glutos is very good, Sigvald is a good assassin - we have a lot of moving parts without one stand out ridiculous unit which is good! The last thing you want to be is an army where only one warscroll is used. I think we're meant to use every part of this battletome rather than focus it around one unit; using Slickblades to harass on a charge, shoot at support pieces while a keeper or Sigvald or even fiends mow down the bigger models. Deal with hordes with the twin souls and hold objectives with painbringers while your army generates depravity points. 

Yeah, we don't have some dumb "40 attacks that do d3 mortal wound on every 5+ to hit" rule that'd send us skyrocketing to the top of the meta, but rather a very nuanced army that'll take a while to use well.

Glutos + a bunch of blissbarbs in their aura and some other skirmishing units could mean zou just keep summoning tides and tides of demons T2 onwards. 

[Gistradagis]

It's probably cuz some of the units are costed weirdly. Archers might be a bit expensive, having no MWs or debuffs. Symbaresh being 170 for 5 and Myrmidons 150 for 5 is also kinda odd.

[TimeToWaste85]

8 minutes ago, Popisdead said:

Weird I was told you cannot send endless spells through the portal on the Living City thread...

 

Oh man,.. the points for heroes on chariots really went up...

Seeing how the Umbral portal specifically discusses sending endless spells through...you were lied to on Living City. 

[Popisdead]

Just now, Enoby said:

Some people are saying that the tome isn't powerful enough, but tbh I think it's just well balanced. Some things could come down in cost, but I think it's easy to forget that our summoning is army wide now so that's probably taken into account with points. In addition, there's rerolling available from the Lord of Pain and one of the battalions, we're very fast, Glutos is very good, Sigvald is a good assassin - we have a lot of moving parts without one stand out ridiculous unit which is good!

Sigvald nullifies taking Phoenix Guard in Cities of Sigmar.  That's pretty huge and I don't think people see how good that is.  I rolled up a random charge and  hit/wound/save/ rolls and killed 9 PG.  People could math it out for a median set of rolls/dmg but he's going to be really good plus if you can sneak him in on a flank and the PG cannot pile in (locus) he'll grind them away unless they retreat (from an objective, even better).  At 260 that's limiting and his points costs is a bit weird for a 6w 3+/4++ model but we may have healing.  He doesn't have a command ability but maybe there is still a healing spell.

 

I think the tome has the feeling of balanced with some oddities.  TBH it takes 2-6 months to really see where it lands plus a few masters or large US tournaments.  If Rhelion shows up here with a list you know it's bent, otherwise balanced.

The book plays different and you have to decide what you want.  do you want to spam MSU tactics for Depravity generation?  that's a different game than taking a hard hitting force of elites or hordes.  I feel it will be a thinking man's elite finesse book.  

[Rivener]

12 minutes ago, Popisdead said:

I think compared to Bullgors they aren't bad.  Perhaps in BoC they will be more effective... >.<

They do about half the damage as Bullgors, and are easier to kill. They may be one of the worst units in the game point for point.

[Gistradagis]

1 minute ago, Popisdead said:

Sigvald nullifies taking Phoenix Guard in Cities of Sigmar.  That's pretty huge and I don't think people see how good that is.  I rolled up a random charge and  hit/wound/save/ rolls and killed 9 PG.  People could math it out for a median set of rolls/dmg but he's going to be really good plus if you can sneak him in on a flank and the PG cannot pile in (locus) he'll grind them away unless they retreat (from an objective, even better).  At 260 that's limiting and his points costs is a bit weird for a 6w 3+/4++ model but we may have healing.  He doesn't have a command ability but maybe there is still a healing spell.

 

I think the tome has the feeling of balanced with some oddities.  TBH it takes 2-6 months to really see where it lands plus a few masters or large US tournaments.  If Rhelion shows up here with a list you know it's bent, otherwise balanced.

The book plays different and you have to decide what you want.  do you want to spam MSU tactics for Depravity generation?  that's a different game than taking a hard hitting force of elites or hordes.  I feel it will be a thinking man's elite finesse book.  

Do have in mind, Sigvald doesn't have Locus.

[Popisdead]

1 minute ago, Gistradagis said:

Do have in mind, Sigvald doesn't have Locus.

Why?  Not daemonic?  I guess pair him up then.  his points is still high, I agree, but his utility could change the "covid" meta.

Edited February 12, 2021 by Popisdead

[Gistradagis]

5 minutes ago, Popisdead said:

Why?  Not daemonic?  I guess pair him up then.  his points is still high, I agree, but his utility could change the "covid" meta.

Yep, he's a mortal. No Daemon tag.

And I agree, yes. I'm a bit sad he doesn't have any real synergies, battalions or especial rules in the army, but at 260 he might just be good enough to take as a random beatstick.

Edited February 12, 2021 by Gistradagis

[Enoby]

7 minutes ago, Gistradagis said:

It's probably cuz some of the units are costed weirdly. Archers might be a bit expensive, having no MWs or debuffs. Symbaresh being 170 for 5 and Myrmidons 150 for 5 is also kinda odd.

Yeah, there is definitely weird costing. Though I'd much rather have costing as the issue because that is by far the most likely thing to see a quick change. It's hard to tell how good things are from just looking at it, but I think having a varied army is going to be key.

When playing Lumineth, I really enjoyed being able to use a bit of everything. Unfortunately the better lists tend to spam mass archers to mortal wound everything to death. I think Slaanesh lists will be like Lumineth but without the option to spam mass ranged mortal wounds. 

We're not weak, we're just well balanced from the look of it. 

[Gistradagis]

1 minute ago, Enoby said:

Yeah, there is definitely weird costing. Though I'd much rather have costing as the issue because that is by far the most likely thing to see a quick change. It's hard to tell how good things are from just looking at it, but I think having a varied army is going to be key.

When playing Lumineth, I really enjoyed being able to use a bit of everything. Unfortunately the better lists tend to spam mass archers to mortal wound everything to death. I think Slaanesh lists will be like Lumineth but without the option to spam mass ranged mortal wounds. 

We're not weak, we're just well balanced from the look of it. 

Yeah. Unless this is broken and I've missed some crazy combo, I'd expect very slight point decreases for stuff like Symbaresh (and perhaps Myrmidon) on Summer.

[Klamm]

Aw man, those Slaangor really are disappointing, especially since I was taking my time with a fun proxy. I guess I'll finish up 6, maybe run them in hopes of accomplishing something. I can understand why they're 3 rather than 4 wounds (being weedier than ogors and more like foot tzaangor enlightened) but lack of any other defence as well as rend -1 damage 1 on three 4+/3+ attacks?

That said, there is a possible plus side here.

The Beasts of Chaos battletome is likely to get updated in the next couple years so hopefully that means the warscroll gets a rewrite lol. 

Coz at the moment, this 140 point unit is worth like 80 points. 

Edited February 12, 2021 by Klamm

[Enoby]

Yeah, Slaangors are disappointing - no doubt about that. That said, we could try to make them work; they're not winning any tournaments, but we can help them. 

Let's put them in units of 6.

They're mortal so they benefit from the Lord of Pain, meaning they can reroll failed hits. They can also get +1 to wound  from the Shardspeaker. If they charge they're on +1 attack, so 4 attacks each and an additional 3 from the leader. 

Exploding hits are a given. 

With all of this, they do about 15 damage against a 4+ save, and if they're not dead by the end of that, then they do another 3 MW if no Slaangors have died.

A cool little combo is with Glutos, fiends, and the Shardspeaker. A big unit of 6 can tie up a unit with -2 to hit and wound. Probably a bit pricey, but you'd have other units too that'd hopefully do something.

[Popisdead]

10 minutes ago, Enoby said:

, so 4 attacks each and an additional 3 from the leader. 

 

 

Opps mis-read that.  only one attack wtih the guilded weapon.  ouchers,.. that's rough... 

Edited February 12, 2021 by Popisdead

[AngryPanda]

46 minutes ago, AngryPanda said:

I’m very happy that I was wrong in predicting that the battletomb will being underwhelming. My initial guess was that because GW was being hesitant to release rule teasers, that there was going to be some prominent unwanted changes that would have deflated hype. 
 

From the leaks, I am confident that the release is going to be decent. The Blissbarb seekers are the only unit to me that seems “meh” so far, though to be fair there are still a lot of unknowns.  Sigvald is a blender, and on the charge he’s going to tear up whatever is unfortunate to be on the receiving end. The +6 mortal wounds is nice for the painbringers, anything that allows for mortal wounds to be dealt is always a big plus. Assuming that there are more rules on the warscrolls and decent battalions, I’m not as worried about the twinsouls not having rend; I have a feeling there will be other ways to buff them via battalions or synergies.
 

There are still a lot of unknowns, but from what I’ve gathered I’ll have the option to put together a nice list that includes Sigvald, some painbringers, a Lord of Pain, and a shardspeaker or two. Optionally adding some Fiendbloods (glass cannon unit?) and Daemon support heroes like a Contorted Epitome or Infernal Enrapturess (assuming they can benefit mortals), and it will be a decent core. I can also try to summon in some Fiends, or other daemon units I feel will best support me. 

 

 

I spoke too soon. Slaangors are awful; what the hell were they thinking? 
 

Easily a unit of Mortek Guard (130 pt) and witch elves are far, far, far superior to them; Fiendbloods don’t even come close to these standard battleline. Now I believe my initial assumption was correct: that GW knew the rules were underwhelming and purposely didn’t tease rules otherwise it would destroy hype. 
 

The leaks have been released, and suffice to say I’m not gonna buy the battletomb. I might buy Sigvald and the painbringers because they’re beautiful models and I do want to paint them up, but now that I do the math it seems that GW dropped the ball on this. 
 

Just a thought, maybe we should write to GW? Get a petition to change them to better damage and stats. In most cases I would just let it go, but rules are so bad that they might be the most overpriced and useless unit in the game. If enough people express disinterest through a petition, maybe we can promote some change? 

[Yoid]

Slaangor are terrible for their price, old daemonettes beat them in every aspect. I cannot find new daemonettes tho, but they still cost 110 agaisnt the worst at everything slaangors that cost 140.

One of the mortal spells give +1 to hit vs an enemy unit, but you got to beat the bravery of the unit in a 2d6 roll, extremelly unreliable. The sharspeaker +1 to wound is good tho, but i cannot see it saving the slaangor warscroll, they hit on 4+.

Daemonette heroes going up 20 to 40 pts is interesting, i want to see the warscrolls, maybe now they are really good somehow, a better spell would help. If Enrapturess keep generating DP now is gonna matter a lot more because cost of DP are really low, maybe she is now a wizard or have 2 long range attacks instead of 1. I don't know, im very excited.

Painbringers seems really similar to chosen. I was planing to play chosen before the mortals were anounced. I hope they are not just worst chosen in the end, the shield got to do something.

I cannot see Twinsouls working without rend or MW output.

Chariots going up too, maybe they are better now.

Keepers going down as expected, they no longer resummon themselfs. But i can see some buffs to the stat lines if they cost so much. They are cheap DP cost tho. I hope shields, knifes and whips get a cool rework. The spell lore for greater daemons is amazing right now. (Spell that make you fly, spell that heal you, spell that block movement, charge and command abilities to an enemy hero.  All of them easier to cast than before)

We will see the long awaited rework of the keeper basic spell? Ther is a lot of warscrolls i cannot find.

The battalion that allows you to shoot blissbarb archers in the hero phase tho... Shootslaanesh is coming!

[Popisdead]

2 minutes ago, Yoid said:

Ther is a lot of warscrolls i cannot find.
 

Where are you finding much of the warscrolls?  I've found 2-3 leaks on reddit but nothing elsewhere...

[Ragest]

Well, I truly wanted to make a full mortal list, but I don't know how.

Every mortal unit but sigvald and glutos is terrible overcosted