AoS 2 - Hedonites of Slaanesh Discussion

[Wordy9th]

The mirror was also very good! 
 

here’s the list for the above post.

 

Army Faction: Hedonites of Slaanesh
    - Army Type: Invaders

LEADER

1 x Keeper of Secrets (400)
    - General
    - Command Traits: Best of the Best
    - Artefacts: Icon of Infinite Excess

1 x The Masque (140)

1 x Lord of Hubris (135)

1 x Contorted Epitome (190)
    - Spells: Lash of Slaanesh

BATTLELINE

11 x Blissbarb Archers (150)

11 x Blissbarb Archers (150)

20 x Daemonettes (250)

ENDLESS SPELL

1 x Mesmerising Mirror (60)

OTHER

5 x Blissbarb Seekers (200)

6 x Slaangor Fiendbloods (290)

TOTAL POINTS: (1965/2000)

Created with Warhammer Age of Sigmar: The App

[Wordy9th]

6 hours ago, Twisted Firaun said:

Hey everyone, what’s the best way to build a Keeper f Secrets?

The shield

edit- though if I’m summoning a keeper then other weapon options are viable. You can’t risk just being shot off the board with no ward early game.

Edited March 23, 2023 by Wordy9th

[ibel]

What do u think, is a Double-Keeper List in Invaders "work" ?! Maybe something like this :

Spoiler

Allegiance: Slaanesh
- Host: Invaders Host
- Grand Strategy: Take What's Theirs
- Triumphs: Inspired

Leaders
Keeper of Secrets (370)*
- General
- Ritual Knife
- Command Trait: Best of the Best
- Spell: Flamming Weapon
Keeper of Secrets (370)
- Living Whip
- Spell: Lash of Slaanesh
The Contorted Epitome (240)*
- Artefact: Icon of Infinite Excess
- Lore of Slaanesh: Pavane of Slaanesh

Battleline
20 x Daemonettes (220)*
- Reinforced x 1
11 x Blissbarb Archers (140)*
11 x Blissbarb Archers (140)*

Units
5 x Slickblade Seekers (210)*
3 x Fiends (170)*

Endless Spells & Invocations
Mesmerising Mirror (60)

Core Battalions
*Battle Regiment

Total: 1920 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 1 / 4
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 109
Drops: 2

 

Edited March 23, 2023 by ibel

[ibel]

1 hour ago, Wordy9th said:

The shield

edit- though if I’m summoning a keeper then other weapon options are viable. You can’t risk just being shot off the board with no ward early game.

Isa the Shooting think in your Community as heavy that u need it ?!?! I think if i face a very very heavy shooting List my Keeper died anyway with or without Ward and in every other Matchup it is not that much of a think. But hey the Agis is a avaibel opion and the Ward Buff (36+ DP) comes late, especially if u want to Summon something....

[Jaskier]

The shield adds an effective 8 additional wounds, for what amounts to an effective 24 wound 4+ save model; stack Finest Hour, All Out Defense, Mystic Shield, etc and you can probably keep it alive for a good while against shooting. 

For that reason, I favor the shield, especially as regardless of which subfaction you go a Keeper is going to be a very high priority target for any opponent. The anti melee tech of the whip is great but the thing to note here is that we already have ****** loads of anti melee tech that even the Keeper itself can access (the Crown, certain spells, a few other artifacts, etc) so I feel like the shield stands out as the most well rounded option overall, especially as you won't be able to easily farm 36DP in every matchup. 

[zombiepiratexxx]

Taking the Aegis on the Kipper is a good investment in your 400pts model that you want to ensure makes it into combat. While you will likely get the ward later on through DP I think I'd rather have the ward than not in those first few turns, just in case. Saving 1/3 of your damage after saves (and a 3+ is easy to get with Mystic Shield) on average is a good survivability boost I feel, especially to get through the first turn where you're hoping to get the -1 to hit up and running which just stacks superbly as well in terms of making your expensive Greater Daemon live to see combat. 

[LeonBox]

Bit of a trial by fire tonight -- I've got SoB in my second game with the new book. Thoughts on the best approach? Shalaxi seems like she'll actually be a good pick here, not only for really putting the hurt on them, but also to tank them with her -1 to hit and wound against heroes. 

[Lucentia]

Don't SoB have a lot of anti-monster tech?  I'd be afraid of poor Shalaxi just getting run over!  

Reducing melee attacks could prove very valuable against megas as they don't have too many attacks to begin with, but outscoring on objectives will be the real issue.  As ever the aim should be to lift at least one gargant per turn, stacking save debuffs and aiming to make sure you finish off your target wherever possible should be main priority, I think.

[Enoby]

2 minutes ago, Lucentia said:

Don't SoB have a lot of anti-monster tech?  I'd be afraid of poor Shalaxi just getting run over!  

Reducing melee attacks could prove very valuable against megas as they don't have too many attacks to begin with, but outscoring on objectives will be the real issue.  As ever the aim should be to lift at least one gargant per turn, stacking save debuffs and aiming to make sure you finish off your target wherever possible should be main priority, I think.

Yeah, agreed. I think twinsouls would be a good shout here - they'll likely get shoved in the bag/gripped, but if Glutos can fend of the mini gargants, then the reduced attack and 5+ ward on MSU of twinsouls with a LoP and Blissbarb seekers/Archers help. 

That said, could be worth experimenting with Fiends in this match up. A unit of twinsouls and a unit of Fiends, alongside Glutos, will hopefully massively mitigate incoming damage and you'll be able to pack a decent punch yourself. 

[Enoby]

Oh, also, a Lord of Hubris may be good to just waste activations, alongside Phantasmagoria. I reckon we have a decent match up vs gargants. 

[ibel]

45 minutes ago, Jaskier said:

he shield adds an effective 8 additional wounds, for what amounts to an effective 24 wound 4+ save model; stack Finest Hour, All Out Defense, Mystic Shield, etc and you can probably keep it alive for a good while against shooting

Sry that are 5-6 more Wounds. And jes against shootie it could make sense.... BUT:

46 minutes ago, Jaskier said:

For that reason, I favor the shield, especially as regardless of which subfaction you go a Keeper is going to be a very high priority target for any opponent.

The Question: Did u have the first round or your Enemy? What did u have beside the Keeper ?! What matchups can snipe a keeper from far far away very easylie (LRL=jes; SC= Okay..anything else?!?! (KO need 12-18" to be really really efffektive)

And to the AntiHordAttack rule= U have many many Hordes who have 2-3 Attacks from the beginning and can stack 1-2 (3) more Attacks so (my son (10) play Blades of KHorne and Bloddcrusher with 5 or 6 Attacks each or just 2 in a 6 or 9er Unit make a very very different think  )

[Jaskier]

1 hour ago, ibel said:

Sry that are 5-6 more Wounds. And jes against shootie it could make sense.... BUT:

The Question: Did u have the first round or your Enemy? What did u have beside the Keeper ?! What matchups can snipe a keeper from far far away very easylie (LRL=jes; SC= Okay..anything else?!?! (KO need 12-18" to be really really efffektive)

And to the AntiHordAttack rule= U have many many Hordes who have 2-3 Attacks from the beginning and can stack 1-2 (3) more Attacks so (my son (10) play Blades of KHorne and Bloddcrusher with 5 or 6 Attacks each or just 2 in a 6 or 9er Unit make a very very different think  )

The math on a 5++ is that you effectively need to do 50% of a models total wounds extra to kill it, so say if an 8 wound model has a 5++, you would on average need to deal 12 wounds to kill it - or 4 more (so half or 50% of 8 ) than if it didn't have a ward. Ergo a Keeper with 16 wounds and a 5++ requires an average 24 wounds to put down, so 8 more than usual. 

There's a few armies but a couple of them are either top of the meta or very common in the meta, so you absolutely need to plan around them. In all honesty, gunline Slaanesh lists will also be a big consideration soon enough. It's also worth noting the 5++ gives you protection against mortal wounds whereas the other options do not (except against mortal wounds that trigger off attacks, which the whip can reduce the total number of.) 

That's why the Crown, the Shardspeaker, Twinsouls, and the various spells we have to reduce or nuke attacks down are all going to be relevant in our lists, for exactly the situations you describe. Even without them, we've got the -1 to hit from DP, and further accessible -1s from Glutos and so on, then we have other tech like strikes last, retreat before the unit fights, taunts and so on. As such, I don't feel the Keeper needs the whip, as good as it is, as it only helps you win more at what Slaanesh is already the king of (i.e. nuking your opponents ability to damage you in melee) whereas the shield mitigates the one legitimate weakness the model has, and that's to shooting and magic. 

The nice thing is though is that I think the differences are marginal enough that they are all worth considering, even if the shield probably is my chosen default for now. I'm happy my Shalaxi has a shield, for instance, whereas before she felt so limited not having access to the hand. 

[KrispyXIV]

3 minutes ago, Jaskier said:

The math on a 5++ is that you effectively need to do 50% of a models total wounds extra to kill it, so say if an 8 wound model has a 5++, you would on average need to deal 12 wounds to kill it - or 4 more (so half or 50% of 8 ) than if it didn't have a ward. Ergo a Keeper with 16 wounds and a 5++ requires an average 24 wounds to put down, so 8 more than usual. 

There's a few armies but a couple of them are either top of the meta or very common in the meta, so you absolutely need to plan around them. In all honesty, gunline Slaanesh lists will also be a big consideration soon enough. It's also worth noting the 5++ gives you protection against mortal wounds whereas the other options do not (except against mortal wounds that trigger off attacks, which the whip can reduce the total number of.) 

That's why the Crown, the Shardspeaker, Twinsouls, and the various spells we have to reduce or nuke attacks down are all going to be relevant in our lists, for exactly the situations you describe. Even without them, we've got the -1 to hit from DP, and further accessible -1s from Glutos and so on, then we have other tech like strikes last, retreat before the unit fights, taunts and so on. As such, I don't feel the Keeper needs the whip, as good as it is, as it only helps you win more at what Slaanesh is already the king of (i.e. nuking your opponents ability to damage you in melee) whereas the shield mitigates the one legitimate weakness the model has, and that's to shooting and magic. 

The nice thing is though is that I think the differences are marginal enough that they are all worth considering, even if the shield probably is my chosen default for now. I'm happy my Shalaxi has a shield, for instance, whereas before she felt so limited not having access to the hand. 

Very much agreed.  A keeper that starts on the table really likes the Shield.  It puts it in the territory of a model you can make really inefficient for your opponent to kill, if they decide they wanna go for it.  

That said, a second keeper that's summoned probably prefers one of the other options - I'm guessing knife or whip. 

 

[Magnus The Blue]

2 hours ago, LeonBox said:

Bit of a trial by fire tonight -- I've got SoB in my second game with the new book. Thoughts on the best approach? Shalaxi seems like she'll actually be a good pick here, not only for really putting the hurt on them, but also to tank them with her -1 to hit and wound against heroes. 

I actually think this is one of our best match-up.  Crown of "lol you only have 1 attack" and lord of Hubris, combined with general -1 to hit/wound are devastating on such a low model count army.  Also Sons give you lots of chances to farming DP with those 35 wounds each.

 

[Jaskier]

2 hours ago, LeonBox said:

Bit of a trial by fire tonight -- I've got SoB in my second game with the new book. Thoughts on the best approach? Shalaxi seems like she'll actually be a good pick here, not only for really putting the hurt on them, but also to tank them with her -1 to hit and wound against heroes. 

If you manage to get a buffed Invaders Shalaxi in (meaning, whatever she's hitting has Hurler applied to it, she gets +1 attack from the Icon, and her spell is active) with the double pile-in from a friendly Keeper, I'm pretty sure she will on average instagib a Mega with no issues - just watch out for the suplex combos!

Playing Sons at the moment myself, the Slaanesh matchup looks horrendous for Sons. So many debuffs and attack reductions for an army that absolutely has to make sure it hits when it gets the chance to, and an incredible amount of ways to neuter a single units' saves in conjunction with giant wound pools to farm depravity. Seriously, don't be surprised if you eclipse 36DP by the end of the first battle round. 

[Magnus The Blue]

Anyone else excited to get the Masque on the table?  6" pile in is a loss but deploying right in the heart of the enemy along side more than double the damage output,  yes please.  I think that she along means we don't have to compete in the race towards 1 drop as few armies will want to give us first turn with her hanging about.

[KrispyXIV]

13 minutes ago, Magnus The Blue said:

Anyone else excited to get the Masque on the table?  6" pile in is a loss but deploying right in the heart of the enemy along side more than double the damage output,  yes please.  I think that she along means we don't have to compete in the race towards 1 drop as few armies will want to give us first turn with her hanging about.

Right, but we really want the first turn - which folks may be loathe to give us.  I dont think it helps much at all with competing for priority unless you're content with going second, which has advantages but comes with the risk of getting pummeled before defenses are in place. 

[Magnus The Blue]

16 minutes ago, KrispyXIV said:

Right, but we really want the first turn - which folks may be loathe to give us.  I dont think it helps much at all with competing for priority unless you're content with going second, which has advantages but comes with the risk of getting pummeled before defenses are in place. 

Personally I almost always want to go second.  Being double turned is just too devastating in the current meta, especially with fragile Slaanesh units. With defensive deployment and screening, we're unlikely to be alpha struck off the board but facing an early double turn will likely mean game over.

[LeonBox]

I've been kicking two lists around for my match with SoB: 

Army Faction: Hedonites of Slaanesh
- Army Type: Pretenders
- Grand Strategy: Glutton for Depravity
- Triumphs: Bloodthirsty

LEADER

1 x Shalaxi Helbane (420)**
- Shining Aegis
- Spells: Born of Damnation

1 x Contorted Epitome (190)**
- Artefacts: Arcane Tome
- Spells: Phantasmagoria

1 x Lord of Pain (135)**
- General
- Command Traits: Strength of Godhood
- Artefacts: The Crown of Dark Secrets

1 x Sigvald (205)**

BATTLELINE

11 x Blissbarb Archers (150)*

11 x Blissbarb Archers (150)*

10 x Myrmidesh Painbringers (290)*
- Painmaster

ENDLESS SPELL

1 x Dreadful Visage (60)

TERRAIN

1 x Fane of Slaanesh (0)

OTHER

5 x Blissbarb Seekers (200)
- High Tempter

5 x Slickblade Seekers (200)**
- Hunter-Seeker

CORE BATTALIONS:

*Galletian Sharpshooters

**Warlord

TOTAL POINTS: (2000/2000)

And: 

Army Faction: Hedonites of Slaanesh
- Army Type: Pretenders
- Grand Strategy: Glutton for Depravity
- Triumphs: Bloodthirsty

LEADER

1 x Glutos Orscollion (480)*
- Spells: Born of Damnation

1 x Contorted Epitome (190)*
- Artefacts: Arcane Tome
- Spells: Phantasmagoria

1 x Lord of Pain (135)*
- General
- Command Traits: Strength of Godhood
- Artefacts: The Crown of Dark Secrets

1 x The Masque (140)*

BATTLELINE

10 x Myrmidesh Painbringers (290)*
- Painmaster

11 x Blissbarb Archers (150)**

11 x Blissbarb Archers (150)**

ENDLESS SPELL

1 x Dreadful Visage (60)

OTHER

5 x Blissbarb Seekers (200)

3 x Fiends (200)**

CORE BATTALIONS:

*Warlord

**Galletian Sharpshooters

TOTAL POINTS: (1995/2000)

 

I could also switch the Fiends out in the second list for Sigvald or Slicks. I'm not sure on Slicks in this list -- they've got high rend, but without support they'll get wrecked by the first gargant that looks at them funny. 

[ibel]

I like both list.

I like glutos very much and think this could be very worse for the SoB with the massiv amount of debuffs.

[MothmanDraws]

6 hours ago, KrispyXIV said:

Right, but we really want the first turn - which folks may be loathe to give us.  I dont think it helps much at all with competing for priority unless you're content with going second, which has advantages but comes with the risk of getting pummeled before defenses are in place. 

 

6 hours ago, Magnus The Blue said:

Personally I almost always want to go second.  Being double turned is just too devastating in the current meta, especially with fragile Slaanesh units. With defensive deployment and screening, we're unlikely to be alpha struck off the board but facing an early double turn will likely mean game over.

To be honest this will likely be match up dependant, if you are against a shooting army or one with a credible t1 charge threat(though there could be some tech of using the crown to make the alpha strike unit 1a and putting your lord of hubris+myrmidesh as only targets in range) you want first turn, but if the opponent is a melee army I would just deploy as far back as possible and let them come to you, your seekers can still likely make their charges anyway.

Those same shooting armies also have to weigh up getting a good alpha strike to prevent buffs with chance that you double turn them and they cant get enough damage in for value or risking double turn. Masque can also likely still earn her value going 2nd either forcing some resource to stay back to kill her (if opponent is an elite melee army she might tie up something of value anyway) or just have her move with your army as a blender hero. 

[araness]

Weird one: has anyone noticed that Dexcessa in the AoS app has the 'Scourge of Slaanesh' as a melee weapon rather than missile? Confirmed that it must've been a misprint then!

[LeonBox]

My Sons of Behemat battle tonight in brief: 

- He made me take T1 and doubled me. I had foolishly moved everything up; he obliterated Shalaxi over the course of the double and a unit of archers, and had also charged my LoP general. He also kept putting strike-last on Shalaxi, so despite Brodd being strike last too (from Visage), she just got roflstomped by him and the fighty gargant. 

- I was convinced it was a done deal after that double did such a number on me, but we pressed on. Sigvald and Slicks charged and killed a horde-killing gargant. My LoP died after I overestimated his ability to hold a gargant in place for a turn. 

- I failed to win a priority roll throughout the whole 5 rounds. The Epitome also failed 5/6 casting rolls (despite the re-roll) over turns 2-3, then got stomped when Brodd finally caught up with her. 

- Sigvald was amazing. He killed two Gargants who had been injured by shooting and refused temptation dice. Speaking of which... 

- My opponent refused every temptation dice until around turn 3, when the tide began to turn and he had to start accepting them. This was (a) in stark contrast to other battles I've played and (b) hilariously apropos, because it was a case of him being steadfast and refusing temptation until he phsyically couldn't anymore (gargants were close to dying) and so he had no choice but to give in. 

- Because of this refusal and the fact he was too far away for me to charge T1, I generated 1 DP the whole turn. 

- At the bottom of 4, I had left: 

4 Painbringers

Sigvald with 3 wounds 

5 Slickblades

1 summoned Viceleader 

37ish DPs

He had: 

Brodd, who’d taken 30ish wounds 

He conceded despite winning priority because he couldn't score a battle tactic and could get, at best, 1 point. I'd likely had got the full five points in my turn. Also, he failed his grand strat (cast all of the Gargant Prayers or something) and I had the 36 DPs I needed for mine. 

Final score: 20-16 Slaanesh

Final thoughts: 

- I misplayed pretty hard at points (despite vowing my general would not be exposed again, he was and I left him there because I got cocky), but still managed to pull a win out of the bag. This was mostly because he didn't go after Siggy and the Slickblades (new band name) but absolutely should have because these two units basically wiped his army. 

- Refused temptation dice really sucks, but they actually did so much damage to him. By the bottom of 3 every gargant had 20+ wounds. 

- Phantasmagoria is just the best you guys. 

- Shalaxi is getting shelved for a looooong time. She rolled double 1s for her spear with her spell up. Slaanesh does not forgive such incompetence. 

- Should have gone with my second list (and intended to), but I forgot to print it. Glutos' -1 to hit would have put in work against gargants. 

Siggy messes up Brodd. 

Barbseekers prepare to run away from a Phantasmagoria'd killy gargant.

Slickblades put a heavily wounded gargant down (probably by licking him to death; more than one gargant died to seeker tongues) 

Shalaxi gets tag-teamed and a gargant makes it into my Barbseekers. If you're wondering how this happened, it's because I'm dumb. 

An alternate angle of Shalaxi getting roflstomped in the double. 

Siggy and the Slickblades prepare to charge and kill this gargant, who at this point had killed 6 Painbringers. The Painbringers stoically kept passing their battleshock rolls. In the foreground, I inexplicably don't retreat the Lord of Pain. 

Edited March 24, 2023 by LeonBox
Adding photos

[Tizianolol]

Guys a question af lord of pain aura: battletome says he got aura +1 to wound if he is cintesting an objective. If im inside of an objective that i controlli, it count he is contesting an objective? Thx a lot:)

[LeonBox]

1 minute ago, Tizianolol said:

Guys a question af lord of pain aura: battletome says he got aura +1 to wound if he is cintesting an objective. If im inside of an objective that i controlli, it count he is contesting an objective? Thx a lot:)

Yes, he still counts as contesting it.