AoS 2 - Hedonites of Slaanesh Discussion

[Poryague]

Shardspeaker may be able to move up the board now as long as she has a unit to move with. Cast a spell for the ward save. The unit she is with will keep her from being shot immediately. So can actually get in range to do things.

[Jaskier]

3 hours ago, LeviathanL said:

I expect mortals only/daemons only for command traits and artefacts. The khorne update just now seems to indicate that is their direction for monogods as a whole.

It's been established that Slaanesh retains their three distinct subfactions each with their own traits and artifacts, so them being split further by mortals or daemons is actually very unlikely. For reference, all three other monogod books have had a daemon/mortal split since 2nd edition, Slaanesh has been the odd duck out the whole time. 

To another posters' worry, Strength of Godhood is very likely available to Keepers going off current precedent, I'd be very surprised if not. 

@Poryague that's actually a great point, this seasons' rules do a lot to fix the issues the Shardspeaker classically had. She definitely looks more interesting overall now. 

Edited March 15, 2023 by Jaskier

[LeonBox]

The Lord of Hubris just went from a quirky tax on keeping your Slaangors alive to an auto-include in a Twinsouls/Painbringer list. Great ability. 
 

Very excited for this new book. Hoping for a bit of an update to the lore too, as they barely mentioned the coming of Slaanesh’s children in the last one. 

[CeleFAZE]

Oh this. I like this.

Very excited for a book with a tricky, potentially powerful mechanic as well as baseline good warscrolls.

We're back in business, and it's booming.

[Enoby]

The Honest Wargamer is going through the tome now  Spell lores for each host!

[Enoby]

Some Godseekers now!

 

[AronQ_]

5 minutes ago, Enoby said:

Some Godseekers now!

 

Cool! It is interesting that there now unique lore of magic for each Host

[Poryague]

Pretenders seem strong

Godseekers is solid does lots of movement related things as one would expect. 

[MothmanDraws]

Slaanesh really loves constricting enemy attacks, seems reason ppl will take the temptations is they only going to be getting 1 attack lol

Edited March 16, 2023 by MothmanDraws

[KrispyXIV]

Interesting that we appear to have confirmation Synessa is not intended to be an Uber caster, as she is not that.  

She does appear to be excellent support, and godlike at just deleting support heroes though...

[Enoby]

Likely the last parts we'll see from the stream

[Enoby]

Shalaxi gets two attacks now, which is nice

[MothmanDraws]

I do think rob is overlooking how far you can stack stuff in terms of buffs and debuffs in the army

[Beliman]

Mortal-side of this book seems to be really good and fun to play.

Battle traits are fine and useful, but Warscrolls abilities seems to be reallystrong. Still, a lot of Slaanesh units need a lot of layers of rules to be true powerhouses, but I think that they are going to be really annoying. A full buffed Painbringers are going to be... a pain... to deal with.
Btw, Painbringers are 2 wounds with 3+save with an easy ability for an extra +1save. Solid tanks that can stack a lot of debuffs (-1 hit, ward saves, a lot of -X attacks, etc...) around them for an unkillable anvil.

There are some interactions that have a red NPE mark and some FAQs. 

I can't wait for Glutos and Seahorse riders!

 

Edited March 16, 2023 by Beliman

[LeonBox]

****** this looks amazing. The spells that have been shown already look way better. Shutting off redeploy is fantastic, as is a 3D6 charge. Can’t wait to see the other warscrolls! 

[MothmanDraws]

17 minutes ago, Beliman said:

Mortal-side of this book seems to be really good and fun to play.

Battle traits are fine and useful, but Warscrolls abilities seems to be reallystrong. Still, a lot of Slaanesh units need a lot of layers of rules to be true powerhouses, but I think that they are going to be really annoying. A full buffed Painbringers are going to be... a pain... to deal with.
Btw, Painbringers are 2 wounds with 3+save with an easy ability for an extra +1save. Solid tanks that can stack a lot of debuffs (-1 hit, ward saves, a lot of -X attacks, etc...) around them for an unkillable anvil.

There are some interactions that have a red NPE mark and some FAQs. 

I can't wait for Glutos and Seahorse riders!

 

To be honest the main NPE will be if lowering attacks gets too much (they can jsut cap if needed) and the lord of hubris doing the challenge then leaving combat.

Glutos will never die 

The armies main weakness atm will be alpha strike shooting

[Enoby]

Some more to come, and I think that mostly rounds us off

I'm really excited for this book!

[zombiepiratexxx]

Hero slots are going to be at a premium with a lot of really cool stuff to fit in there. Lots of options. Looks like Mortals are definitely the pick of the regular units but Fiends not needing reinforcing to get the extra bonuses now is really positive. So many buffs and debuffs now there's going to be a lot to keep track of but if you play it right feels like it's going to be utterly devastating. If you don't know how to pilot it though, or get it wrong, it's going to feel like the current book where you can't do much. 

[bonesaww666]

I am beyond thrilled with what I have seen so far.

 

It's going to be very interesting and fun to play around with lists, plenty of different builds rolling around in my head.

 

4 Exalted Chariots doesn't seem so foolish now!

 

Hellflayers are much better with the Hero around, gaining +1 to the roll is enough to get me to try out 4 of them.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Grimrock]

Hard to say without seeing everything (man I hate that his head is in the way of almost every warscroll haha), but it's looking pretty solid so far. Pretenders seem like a big winner even without seeing their spell lore and that crown of dark secrets is an almost Be'Lakor level middle finger to god-tier units like Archaon. Looking forward to Saturday for a better quality look at the book from Facehammer or GMG. 

I skipped the last book because I would have had to essentially re-buy the entire army as all my daemons were relegated to summoning fodder and nothing else, but this is definitely looking more promising. There definitely still seems to be a slant towards the newer mortal models but at least some of my collection will be playable again. Having to pick up a few boxes is a lot more palatable than re-buying a whole army. 

 

Edited March 16, 2023 by Grimrock

[Poryague]

Seen some people complain about kos being bad. It has been improved.

Went from 14w to 16w

Elegant great blade no longer degrades.

Special weapons

Living whip went from 1 attack to d6. It's special changed from -1 to hit on 1 melee weapon the target has on a 3 +. Changed to 2+ roll give -1 to attack characteristics of melee weapons that's a big change.

Ritual knife went from 2-5 1mw 6 does d3. Changed to 2+ do that many mw possible to do 6mw.

Sinistrous hand d3 and d6 changed to 3 and 6

Shining ageis 6+ to 5+ ward

Excessive violence was changed to like 1 per unit. No cp necessary 

Is 400 points instead of 370 with much stronger allegiance abilities available. Are the point right not sure but it significantly better then it was.

Edited March 16, 2023 by Poryague

[KrispyXIV]

So, current season a Contorted Epitome in Pretenders with Flaming Weapon and Strength of Godhood is a pretty ok Champion, no? 😈

[Third]

Hardest hitting Keeper I have been able to think of is a once per game +2 attacks, -1 to enemy save, +1 rend, flaming sword, attacking twice with +1 to hit and +1 to wound and ritual knife

Also have a really fun idea with Godseekers , not that it hits crazy hard, but will pump that depravity turn 1 really good, thats for sure!

Edited March 16, 2023 by Third

[Jaskier]

So, the first thing to note is a lot of details from the battle report and the leak were wrong, likely due to the battle report players getting stuff wrong themselves (as usual!) That aside, gonna post some general thoughts (I'm going to split these into multiple posts as otherwise they will take up too much space!); 

Allegiance stuff;
So, our actual depravity generation mechanic is much more intuitive and easy to track than before, and like before it also has its bad matchups (i.e. a tanky army that doens't offer many good options to charge, or a shooting army that just alpha strikes you, or an MSU army that doesn't offer much EK potential) but I'd say it's overall stronger just by virtue of favoring wiping units out rather than leaving them alive, which is a big uptick in the age of super Rallies and stuff. The Temptation mechanic is a great boost to the army even if it never yields any DP just by virtue of being a passive form of mortal wound generation in an army that can force it very often through shooting and so on. Overall, definitely an improvement from the last book. The passive abilities are stronger, the summoning costs essentially tripled and some options were lost (like 30 Daemonettes) but overall it looks like the army will have an easier time maintaining those very strong buffs and using the summons not to prop up the faction but as a toolbox addition. Nice. However, I can't lie that losing the Locus and being the only monogod book without one is a really odd choice; I don't see why they couldn't have just retained the pile-in reduction, but it is what it is. Losing the old exploding 6s version of EK effectively strips +1 to-hit from the army, but the offset here is some units got +1 to-hit baked into their scrolls (Daemonettes, Symbaresh) and this army has an INSANE amount of ways to give +1 to-hit. Overall, thumbs up! 

Side-note, the Fane also got a boost; even though (spoiler alert) this army has a lot of +1 to-wound sources now, +1 to-wound is still a much better buff than +1 to-hit by virtue of +1 to-hit being easier to access in general. 

Subfaction stuff;
So, I can confidently say I was *not* expecting each host to have its own spell lore. That's super cool, and obviously it's now another factor that affects your subfaction choice. Also, the best thing here is that we now no longer have mandatory traits/artifacts from these, so we are free to pick and choose what we want and not be locked in to other stuff. I can also say right now that Pretenders are obviously the best subfaction; as a spoiler, Pretenders can replicate the others' gimmicks or certain traits/artifacts they have available and do them and other stuff better. With that out of the way, these are all stronger than they used to be and I'm glad that they all actually do something cool and unique for the army, even if one of them does stand tall. 

Pretenders are insane, but also have the obvious downside of really relying on keeping your general alive; risk and reward personified. Let me just put it plainly, issuing triple commands *and* getting 3CP per hero phase instead of the normal 1CP for your general being alive on the battlefield is insane. For those who have never played against Ironjawz, that means everything from; triple Rallies (which we retained the 5+ Rally on some units like Daemonettes) triple Redeploys, triple Unleash ****** (though hard to pull off due to how charges are resolved) triple All Out Attacks (i.e. you will always have +1 to-hit where you need it) triple All Out Defences (this one is also crazy given how much more durable the army is now overall) triple Inspiring Presence, etc. That's one thing, but getting triple the normal amount of CP per turn? Yes, per turn, not per round; other armies generate 2CP over the course of a battle round through their general being alive (specifically I'm not counting the start of battle round CP) we generate 6! You will have too many CP to play with, and you triple up on them for maximum efficiency. By default, Pretenders are the strongest subfaction by far...just keep your general alive! In the age of Galletian Champions, that's easier than ever, and even if you go the route of a Keeper of Secrets, they too are tougher than ever (but probably still not safe into a shooting army.)

Beyond all that goodness, they also have some great command traits. Strength of Godhood is nuts, pure and simple; assuming it doesn't stack (and to be honest, good) that +1 Rend and +1 Damage goes a long way, whether on a Keeper, an Epitome with Flaming Weapon or whatever. I don't rate Strongest Alone in comparison simply because there's so many ways to get those buffs elsewhere without forcing your general to not be in Look Out Sir (and no shoot) range. Monarch of Lies is interesting and absolutely the default if you're not using Strength of Godhood, but...you'll likely always want to run Strength of Godhood, unless your general isn't interested in getting into combat of course. Onto artifacts...these might be even better! The Crown, if you can set it up (and remember, your heroes are all fast) and not get shot off first, is one of the strongest debuff pieces in the game; a 6" range means you don't need to directly engage the target, and there's countless units in the game that get absolutely *ruined* by this.

The Sceptre is also quite cool, being a return of the old school Locus rule albeit on a 5+. Breathtaker is weird, but kinda cool? Spells! Soulslice Shards is interesting, it's a low range and conditional on Bravery; basically, it'll be decent into Destruction armies and some Order and Chaos armies like Skaven, and nigh useless elsewhere. Phantasmagoria, on the other hand, is tricky to setup but incredible if you can get it off. It reads to me like a punish spell for alpha strike armies; if a Megaboss crashes into your lines before you get a turn, cast this spell on it afterward and render it nigh useless until your next turn. This also lets you freely attack a unit then fall back...which is insane. Potentially tricky to get off when you need it thanks to the short range but it's nonetheless fantastic. Born of Damnation is a fine second spell just by virtue of being easy to cast and netting you an average 3DP each time it's cast, which given the thresholds being what they are could be key. I think you always take Phantasmagoria here, then maybe Born on a backup caster. 

Godseekers is...fine. Re-roll charges that you can mimic on three units via a Pretenders general, and a quirky (but not as good as the Khorne equivalent because you can't tag units with it) free move rule - these are fine. What's funny to note is they basically swapped the Godseekers buff with the Daemonette banner, meaning Daemonettes still get +1 to charge and re-rolls to charge in Godseekers - they're still as reliable charging out of deep strike as ever. The command traits are similarly fine with nothing really standing out, strike-first on the charge is always handy as it means you get to fight with at least two units before your opponent gets to retaliate; it's a defensive trait, not an offensive one, in that sense. Mortal wounds on the charge obviously combines with the Slaaneshi Warshrine from Slaves to Darkness and its 3D6 charge prayer for a mortal wound bomb, so that's a cool idea to lean into - the other way to maximise it is the Paths spell Godseekers can take. The third trait being restricted to Keepers is odd, basically combining +1 attack with the no pile-in version of the now removed Locus rule. +1 attack on Keeper weapons is nice, but I do wonder if the strike first ability is just going to be better because of its more defensive applications.

As far as artifacts go, the Cameo is cool (but again, Pretenders) for that one turn you want to burn all your CP - just keep in mind it's restricted to the usual issuing one command per phase restriction. The Voicebox is also cool, but it's yet another piece, like the Cameo, that I look at comparative to Pretenders and am left feeling iffy on. It's definitely worth using. The Girdle is the auto-take for a Keeper in conjunction with any of the command traits, as there's a lot of fun to be had with a flying 6" pile-in monster. It's not amazing, mind, as it's limited by the warscrolls it's available for not being *that* scary. As for spells. Paths as mentioned prior is cool, but it is restricted to the usual 12" charge; it makes those 12" max charges more reliable and combos with the mortal wound artifact. Progeny is great, full stop. Shutting off Redeploys against one of your key units makes your charges more reliable and can ensure things like battle tactics and charges onto objectives, etc. Great spell. Slothful isn't the hero-destroyer it used to be, but its arguably just stronger anyway; max move of 3" and charge/runs of 3" is, in many cases, an even stronger move debuff spell than Glutos'. Overall, two fantastic spells prop up an otherwise middling (compared to Pretenders) subfaction. 

As a person that pretty much always played some form of Invaders over the years, I quite like the changes here. Every Invaders hero is a general, full stop. This means your start of turn CP for the general being alive is extremely difficult for opponents to deny, and bigger command ranges for everyone; this also unlocks Battleline like in the old book, meaning Invaders by default have the most diverse lists available to them. The Heroic Action chain is also really cool; make sure you do the important heroic action first to avoid the 1s cropping up when you least want them to. This one is interesting too because you have to duplicate the same heroic action on everyone, not pick a different one; at minimum, you can try to replicate the Pretenders CP farm (by the way, it's really funny and ironic that Pretenders are now the CP faction and not Invaders) by doing the 4+ roll for CP on everyone, and that's really handy. I like these buffs a lot, even the unique heroic action they get; of course, the bonus command trait is limited by the Invaders traits themselves. Best of the Best is fine and easy to pull off. Glory Hog is only useful for getting a 'free' Inspiring Presence from what I can tell; nothing wrong with it. Hurler of Obscenities is another -1 save source and thus very much worth looking at. I need to find the exact wording of it but I assume it doesn't stack, as otherwise you've got the means to stack this via the heroic action chain on every eligible hero. Regardless, Hurler is obviously the best trait here.

As for artifacts, the Rod is weak and only actually triggerable on something like an Exalted Chariot. You need at least 6 unmodified 6s from your hit and wound rolls, and the only unit that's going to do that even semi-reliably is the Bladebringer. This is likely best used with Best of the Best for the bonus attacks, but I can't see this really being viable...1DP? All that hassle...for 1 DP? I don't like it. I like the Icon a lot more than the Rod, that's for sure; the Icon now having infinite range and a much stronger effect make it quite worth using I feel. The Gem is also cool, -1 Attacks effects are always strong and even against Bravery 10 that 3D6 roll for it is pretty reliable. Yes, it's not as strong as the Pretenders equivalent, but it can be used against different units at least. Spell-wise, the Lash is good to great depending on what you're targeting; against monsters (bar units of dragons) it's not worth using, but against stuff like 6 blobs of Varanguard or any 6+ model melee hammer, it's going to pull a lot of value. Pavane is also great, but the fact it can't be used on the same unit means a bad roll for its effect can really neuter it; however, if you manage to slap, say, a Chosen unit with a lucky -3 or -4, they'll be virtually useless. Both spells have the same weakness a lot of the other spells have, which is the range is counterintuitive to their effects, but in terms of potential effects? Thunbs up. Hysterical not being a horde killer anymore is fine because it used to have a horrible wholly within requirement that meant it almost never got good usage; the new effect is funny, being more punishing for elite units, but even on Bravery 10 units it averages out to about 4 mortals. Eh. Overall, I really like the new Invaders and will happily run them as they are better than before, even if I still think Pretenders are better; I rate Invaders above Godseekers as well, for what it's worth, but I like that all three subfactions are at least doing cool unique things and not just providing different flavors of Depravity generation. 

[MothmanDraws]

I think the 3 hosts are interesting, pretenders will likely be the default unless you are trying something specific

 

Big winners

The Masque- though not as big of a debuff piece I think she is really really good, deep striking within 3" means she is getting a t1 charge at 9 attacks, she can either alpha a small hero or get your first depravity going, I was thinking slickblades would be only real t1 push unit but she can do it more reliably (opponents can screen with 4 wound units that slickblades will struggle vs). She can also run and charge so doesnt even need to be 3" away, go hide her like 12" somewhere 

Myrmidesh- although initially an anemic looking scroll these guys soak up buffs, I personaly rate them better than twinsouls as they tank ranged fire better (I think ranged will get around a good portion of our buffs) the timing on the contesting for saves bonus will mess you up but I feel the only time you will have it trigger is vs units you are going into a grind fight with anyway.

Blissbarbs archers - could be too strong with max buff stacking but are still paper until buffs are up

shardspeaker- amazing glow up, though she suffers from 1 of our bigger weaknesses in no + to cast, its good her main utility is her ability

Blissbarb seekers- really solid, getting the -1 to save on key units and if you can have shardspeaker trigger putting +2 rend on specific units will be solid

Glutos- Could be too tanky but will have to see, he feels very strong

Slaangors- very good if you get your buffs going (like most units)

On summoning- it went where I wanted, mostly tech pieces or to fill in some gaps, Infernal enrapturess will be a solid summon in match ups, Fiends will probably be a good pick for your big rewards when you get into the 60 depravity, but if im honest if you are grabbing fiends or keepers you either are in a horde match up or are already winning. Most summons will be chariots or 10 daemonettes to keep tempo or reinforce areas.

 

I feel most of my lists will revolve around

10 myrmidesh

1 shard speeker

1 lord of hubris

22 blissbarb archers

5 slickblades

5 blissbarb seekers

and the rest kitted to flavour