Jump to content

AoS 2 - Hedonites of Slaanesh Discussion


HERO
 Share

Recommended Posts

7 minutes ago, Yoid said:

But even more simple and obvious, in other armies Twinsouls would be able to freely choose stances every turn instead of having to alternate.

Or heck, they'd just get both bonuses simultaneously all the time.

I completely agree, and the release proximity of the Hedonites & Lumineth battletomes really highlights the issue at play here.  As Vince puts it, they are "In Addition: The Battletome" whereas some of these Slaanesh scrolls seem like they have one hand tied behind their backs, or took really perplexing nerfs (Contorted Epitome/Infernal Enrapturess/KoS).

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

39 minutes ago, Yoid said:

The discomfort is increased by the way they released HoS with massive point ups along with DoK with massive point reductions. And now BR:Teclis confirms that the point cost is not a tendency. Plus Warhammer community advertising the units as something they aren't (Twinsouls are not good vs big centerpieces, Slickblades are not the faster unit in AoS, Slaangors are not monstrous blenders...). HoS battletome is not that bad, but the HoS marketing and hype campaign was a disaster. I can easily see the guy that was in charge being fired because they are hurting their own fanbase, maybe that is why there are new jobs available now. GW is a business after all.

About the unsatisfying design of certain battletomes. Yeah. Just look at DoK or the new Lumineth, they are full of "Oh cool i get that in addition"  moments and feelings. Then you look at some of the Slaanesh things, and they are clearly design in a "Oh ******, i don't get that half of the time but is being considered in the point cost of the unit anyway"

As an example, im sure Syl'Eskke in other armies would simply give RR1s all the time, and this would be increased to rerolling everything when the same number of Daemons and Mortals are nearby. Slaangors would probably deal the mortal wounds on the charge, and maybe in a 2+, or if they keep the 4+ then it would be D3 MWs instead to justify all the other crapiness of the warscroll. But even more simple and obvious, in other armies Twinsouls would be able to freely choose stances every turn instead of having to alternate.

You raise good points. Much of what you bring up makes me think of GSC who went from having a very strong book to receiving multiple nerfs and increased unit cost to the point where they became a F tier army who had to work tooth and nail to reach synergies other armies take for granted. Now HoS still can work competitively but much like IDK it comes down to a single build. The reason I mentioned IDK is that both armies competitive builds are so similar, IDK spam eels and HoS go with seeker cavalcades and slickblades. 

Thankfully, we're not nearly as screwed over as GSC and our book can be fixed with a blanket points reduction. The LRL tome is on the other end of the spectrum on poor design, introducing tons of warscrolls bloated with special rules and exceptions. It just screams "complicated for the sake of being complicated." Then again, that is what elf players want, i.e. to feel special (and I do not mean that is a bad way, it is just elves being elves.) What is bad is how it was achieved.

Edited by pnkdth
  • Confused 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

58 minutes ago, pnkdth said:

Then again, that is what elf players want, i.e. to feel special (and I do not mean that is a bad way, it is just elves being elves.) What is bad is how it was achieved.

As someone who used to play elves in fantasy battle . I have to wholeheartedly disagree to this statement

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 minutes ago, azdimy said:

As someone who used to play elves in fantasy battle . I have to wholeheartedly disagree to this statement

I suppose I have some explaining to do then. Back in fantasy elves were seen as a tactical army. It had rules to make the player feel special or rewarding for playing cleverly. The rules were set up like that, i.e. having layered rules and synergies which made great plays quite devastating (but they were earned). The opposite is true for LRL as units can just stack their own buffs on themselves. So the superior nature of elves was better represented and that was the "special"-ness I was referring to.

English is not my primary language, I suppose the word 'special' was poor choice of words.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I still don't know if the points are "off" or not for HoS. The rules for DoK were written some time before those for HoS assumedly given that the army was supposed to have released some time before HoS. I also wouldn't be so sure that the "new" lumineth rules weren't written at the same time as the old lumineth stuff. 

It is possible that the point disparities are the result of 2 writers, but I still think it may just as likely be due to a shift in design philosophy/point costing owing to the impending release of 3rd edition. I think we won't know for sure until the release of the army after Soulblight. If it is simply a case of 2 writers alternating for books it goes SoB-DoK-HoS-LRL which fits the pattern of points being high then low then high, etc. With this in mind Soulblight should have similar costs to SoB and HoS. If HoS have higher points to fit a new scheme for 3rd edition we will also see similar points in Soulblight.

I think that SoB and HoS are quite close to each other in power for points and both books have put up the kind of 4-1 results expected from balanced but not overpowering books.

If Soulblight end up much lower in points than HoS and closer to DoK we know that there is neither a new point scheme nor a strict alternation of battle tome authorship.

If Soulbight end up close to SoB/HoS as I predict they will we still won't know if it is alternating writers or a new pointing scheme until the next battle tome after theirs.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, dicebod said:

Or heck, they'd just get both bonuses simultaneously all the time.

I completely agree, and the release proximity of the Hedonites & Lumineth battletomes really highlights the issue at play here.  As Vince puts it, they are "In Addition: The Battletome" whereas some of these Slaanesh scrolls seem like they have one hand tied behind their backs, or took really perplexing nerfs (Contorted Epitome/Infernal Enrapturess/KoS).

I can see a subfaction/batallion/hero giving Twinsouls both bonuses all the time, that is the kind of synergy you would see in other battletomes. Imagine a Twinsoul hero doing that and making them battleline. Or them having both bonuses as long as they are within 12 of a Mortal Hero and a Daemon Hero. Or them having both bonuses while within 12 of Syl'Eskke (maybe in a Syl'Eskke special batallion). Or even a spell giving them both bonuses until your next hero phase, an extra spell that every wizard in your army knows if any Twinsoul unit is on the table. That is the level of design in other new battletomes, but not for slaanesh, slaanesh is not allowed to have such tools.

That is what people refer as our battletome having bad/lackluster design. Is like if everything was half done and then sealed without being finish. Wich may actually be the case, we don't know what kind of revamp may Slaanesh see once a Broken Realms book feature new rules, our battletome was catch in the Covid era and extremely delayed, so maybe we aren't that far of having additional rules. That would somewhat explain why our daemon side was so neglected not having new rules for the most part. I can see BR: Be'Lakor revamping basic daemons and small herald heroes as part of a new Legions of Chaos Ascendant rework. And the new Slaanesh physical body is a weird plot device that seems like a future gargantuan model for the army or maybe a source for a new type of Daemon (would be cool if we start to see exalted Daemonettes and Fiends the same as we now have Exalted Seekers. Maybe even exalted Keeper of Secrets, or a chariot of Exalted Seekers).

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

19 minutes ago, herohammer said:

I still don't know if the points are "off" or not for HoS. The rules for DoK were written some time before those for HoS assumedly given that the army was supposed to have released some time before HoS. I also wouldn't be so sure that the "new" lumineth rules weren't written at the same time as the old lumineth stuff. 

It is possible that the point disparities are the result of 2 writers, but I still think it may just as likely be due to a shift in design philosophy/point costing owing to the impending release of 3rd edition. I think we won't know for sure until the release of the army after Soulblight. If it is simply a case of 2 writers alternating for books it goes SoB-DoK-HoS-LRL which fits the pattern of points being high then low then high, etc. With this in mind Soulblight should have similar costs to SoB and HoS. If HoS have higher points to fit a new scheme for 3rd edition we will also see similar points in Soulblight.

I think that SoB and HoS are quite close to each other in power for points and both books have put up the kind of 4-1 results expected from balanced but not overpowering books.

If Soulblight end up much lower in points than HoS and closer to DoK we know that there is neither a new point scheme nor a strict alternation of battle tome authorship.

If Soulbight end up close to SoB/HoS as I predict they will we still won't know if it is alternating writers or a new pointing scheme until the next battle tome after theirs.

If it is something related to AoS 3.0 they should have waited for the General's Handbook to adjust every army at the same time. Not doing that in such a way is a big nonsensical mistake.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

52 minutes ago, Yoid said:

That is what people refer as our battletome having bad/lackluster design. Is like if everything was half done and then sealed without being finish. Wich may actually be the case, we don't know what kind of revamp may Slaanesh see once a Broken Realms book feature new rules, our battletome was catch in the Covid era and extremely delayed, so maybe we aren't that far of having additional rules. That would somewhat explain why our daemon side was so neglected not having new rules for the most part. I can see BR: Be'Lakor revamping basic daemons and small herald heroes as part of a new Legions of Chaos Ascendant rework. And the new Slaanesh physical body is a weird plot device that seems like a future gargantuan model for the army or maybe a source for a new type of Daemon (would be cool if we start to see exalted Daemonettes and Fiends the same as we now have Exalted Seekers. Maybe even exalted Keeper of Secrets, or a chariot of Exalted Seekers).

This is a really excellent point @Yoid.  It does feel like there are still dangling threads for Slaanesh - we could be getting more for the faction in Belakor or some other BR book, since as you say it's almost guaranteed that the new battletome and Morathi were originally supposed to be released nowhere near each other.  If every faction is going to be tweaked by BR, surely that has to include Hedonites.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

23 minutes ago, dicebod said:

This is a really excellent point @Yoid.  It does feel like there are still dangling threads for Slaanesh - we could be getting more for the faction in Belakor or some other BR book, since as you say it's almost guaranteed that the new battletome and Morathi were originally supposed to be released nowhere near each other.  If every faction is going to be tweaked by BR, surely that has to include Hedonites.

Tyrion was also "off fighting a far larger threat" (than Nagash) hinted at i BR:Teclis, which could suggest Belakor or the newborn Slaanesh.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Yoid said:

That is what people refer as our battletome having bad/lackluster design. Is like if everything was half done and then sealed without being finish. Wich may actually be the case, we don't know what kind of revamp may Slaanesh see once a Broken Realms book feature new rules, our battletome was catch in the Covid era and extremely delayed, so maybe we aren't that far of having additional rules. That would somewhat explain why our daemon side was so neglected not having new rules for the most part. I can see BR: Be'Lakor revamping basic daemons and small herald heroes as part of a new Legions of Chaos Ascendant rework. And the new Slaanesh physical body is a weird plot device that seems like a future gargantuan model for the army or maybe a source for a new type of Daemon (would be cool if we start to see exalted Daemonettes and Fiends the same as we now have Exalted Seekers. Maybe even exalted Keeper of Secrets, or a chariot of Exalted Seekers).

Definitely a possibility and I could totally see that being the reason, but that would also be a huge punch in the gut for players. Not only did we get a new book about so shortly after the first one was released, but now we're also supposed to pick up a Broken Realms book to actually give us the full rules? It's not impossible but that would be pretty underhanded even for GW. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, Loyal Son of Khemri said:

Howdy folks, I have some sepulchral stalkers(Tomb Lings), that I want to convert to fit my army, any idea on how to turn them into Fiends of Slaanesh? 

Add some hooks and wicked blades (think Dark Elves/Drukhari) stuff and have them be seekers of torment or something like that. I think their serpentine forms would be very well suited for something like that (poisonous bite) + mobile torture rack.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

37 minutes ago, Grimrock said:

Definitely a possibility and I could totally see that being the reason, but that would also be a huge punch in the gut for players. Not only did we get a new book about so shortly after the first one was released, but now we're also supposed to pick up a Broken Realms book to actually give us the full rules? It's not impossible but that would be pretty underhanded even for GW. 

We still got very important rules locked in Wrath of the Everchosen. If HoS was suposed to release last summer, and BR:Whathever with Slaanesh rules was prepared for this summer, that is a year between both books. Is not that rare. LRL prove that current schedule is tricky as they got 2 battletomes and a special book (BR:Teclis) release in a very short span of time.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, pnkdth said:

Tyrion was also "off fighting a far larger threat" (than Nagash) hinted at i BR:Teclis, which could suggest Belakor or the newborn Slaanesh.

Probably the Newborn. They mentioned in BR Teclis that Tyrion was heading towards the Pit of Carthartia - which leads to Ulgu. So it's either Slaanesh - which seems likely - or Malerion/Morathi which I can't see as a larger threat than Nagash. But then .. who knows what Malerion has been up all this time ^^ 

I don't think LRL will be much involved in the rest of the BR series. Maybe Teclis talking to Alarielle or something like that if at all. 

Btw. I disagree a bit with what you wrote about the LRL tome - for the most part it's written very well, the rules are thematic and fit with the background lore. There aren't that many rules where it feels like they just wanted to make it complicated (Bladelords are a bit like that for example). And you normally won't have all these rules within one army list. You have a lot of choice, including the choice to make relatively simple, straightforward lists. When reviewers go through the book they have to mention everything of course, but not everything always counts in every list. 

 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, LuminethMage said:

Probably the Newborn. They mentioned in BR Teclis that Tyrion was heading towards the Pit of Carthartia - which leads to Ulgu. So it's either Slaanesh - which seems likely - or Malerion/Morathi which I can't see as a larger threat than Nagash. But then .. who knows what Malerion has been up all this time ^^ 

I don't think LRL will be much involved in the rest of the BR series. Maybe Teclis talking to Alarielle or something like that if at all. 

Btw. I disagree a bit with what you wrote about the LRL tome - for the most part it's written very well, the rules are thematic and fit with the background lore. There aren't that many rules where it feels like they just wanted to make it complicated (Bladelords are a bit like that for example). And you normally won't have all these rules within one army list. You have a lot of choice, including the choice to make relatively simple, straightforward lists. When reviewers go through the book they have to mention everything of course, but not everything always counts in every list. 

 

Fair point. I guess there was an element of salt which spurred my reaction but even so, it is a bit... much. On the other hand, this is what makes different books interesting to different people. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On another note as we've started to get more experience with the army, what is your favourite combinations or synergies so far (both competitive and personal)?

Anything from host combinations to units, relics and traits, and so on. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I hate to raise the sodium levels of this thread further, but was anyone else as irritated as I was by this article? https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/04/09/the-lumineth-realm-lords-harness-the-wind-to-become-the-fastest-army-in-the-game/

It really felt like they were highlighting everything the Lumineth got that we didn't, on top of specifically calling out that they have options (including support heroes) that meet our highest movement values, and basically match us for one of our only advantages at the moment (high speed), while having abilities to boost that further.

Really a shame they didn't decide to give us a mounted lord of pain equivalent, like the old lord on steed.

  • Like 5
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Subscriber
On 4/8/2021 at 4:52 PM, pnkdth said:

Power level being a rollercoaster has been true since I joined the hobby back in 1999. AFAIK they've never had single team working on all the books but a good mix of writers.

Had HoS been released with a points reduction I think the overall reception of the book would have been much much better. Suddenly battalions wouldn't be such a pain to include, units wouldn't be taking up too much space in a lists, our more squishier leaders wouldn't feel like such a gamble, and you could more easily work with the new DP system (which is a huge improvement IMO).

Furthermore, when we see a release it has long since been finalised and sent to print (I've heard up to 6 months). A lot of moving parts from books to models to be ready. 

The most likely scenario is they overcompensated for the previous book. We've seen it happen in WHFB/40K/AoS before.

I agree with you about points and reception, and also about how things were leaked. Unfortunately Slaanesh had a bizarre hype cycle where we seemed to get a lot of hyping for the models, but hardly anything for the battleltome. And not even in a 'oh they didn't have anything to show way', but rather there was stuff they could have shown and just chose not to. I don't know if there was an issue in the team at the time, but something definitely seemed wrong about the pre-release week. To add onto that, there was a leak which revealed points first (showing very high points) which made people assume things about how strong the warscrolls will be in relation to the points (I was certain Hellstriders would see a buff for 50 extra points), but as the warscrolls didn't seem to match up with how strong people thought things would end up being and people ended up thinking things were much worse than they actually were. 

There were a lot of issues leading up to the release that I think contributed to the negative reaction and you can still feel their effects to this day. 

10 hours ago, pnkdth said:

On another note as we've started to get more experience with the army, what is your favourite combinations or synergies so far (both competitive and personal)?

Anything from host combinations to units, relics and traits, and so on. 

I really like twin souls mixed with a +1 save from Lurid Haze and a 5++ and Glutos nearby. They become a super tanky unit in an army that usually lacks a tank and they can later pack a punch. I am very tempted to start a larger army of them...

6 hours ago, CeleFAZE said:

I hate to raise the sodium levels of this thread further, but was anyone else as irritated as I was by this article? https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/04/09/the-lumineth-realm-lords-harness-the-wind-to-become-the-fastest-army-in-the-game/

It really felt like they were highlighting everything the Lumineth got that we didn't, on top of specifically calling out that they have options (including support heroes) that meet our highest movement values, and basically match us for one of our only advantages at the moment (high speed), while having abilities to boost that further.

Really a shame they didn't decide to give us a mounted lord of pain equivalent, like the old lord on steed.

I think Lumineth got a load more attention than pretty much any other army, to an almost strange degree. We got an equivalent model release but seem to have very little attention on the weeks leading up and after our release. I also don't know if one army is massively more popular than the other; I see a lot of Slaanesh models and a lot of Lumineth (though surprisingly little of the new stuff), but the LE box didn't sell out and their current LE battletome hasn't sold out upon checking (whereas ours sold out in a few hours). Maybe they just really want to push Lumineth?

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, CeleFAZE said:

I hate to raise the sodium levels of this thread further, but was anyone else as irritated as I was by this article? https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/04/09/the-lumineth-realm-lords-harness-the-wind-to-become-the-fastest-army-in-the-game/

It really felt like they were highlighting everything the Lumineth got that we didn't, on top of specifically calling out that they have options (including support heroes) that meet our highest movement values, and basically match us for one of our only advantages at the moment (high speed), while having abilities to boost that further.

Really a shame they didn't decide to give us a mounted lord of pain equivalent, like the old lord on steed.

Blissbarb Seekers are just as fast, can run and shoot, twice the wounds, more shots (4s/4s though), 18" range (as opposed to 12"), cause MWs on 6s. The Hurakan rule is also inferior to Seeker Cavalcades as they have to have charged to get the extra pile-in. We get to summon units to box them in. If you have access to Pavane of Slaanesh you can control where your opponent try to land with some of the speedy characters too. We also got access to Seekers if we really want to catch someone.

All in all, them goat riders look really weird. A lot of their abilities suggest a combat unit yet they're armed with 12" bows which put them in an awkward position. All that movement yet has to get all up in their opponents face at a very chargeable distance. I can see why LRL players aren't terribly hyped about these guys. It will come down unit cost which can see them being either a gimmicky unit or useful flank harasser/objective stealer.

However, I think the 'Teclis castle' list will be even tougher to face than before with all the movement abilities and spells. So in terms of the tournament meta, I think it will look much the same for LRL. With the disclaimer that I haven't had a deep dive in the LRL book yet. So I'm not really saying yay or nay yet, just making observations/speculations.

 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I forget who mentioned it upthread and drew my attention to it, but it annoys me more and more that so many of our special abilities are contingent on dice rolls (or, at least, unfavourable dice rolls). Horrible Fascination, Locus, Glutos' ward save, the Shardspeaker's special ability, etc. etc. etc.

I also despise with a passion spells that require, in addition to being successfully cast, a dice roll to do something. Lash of Slaanesh in particular, a spell that ought to be great for generating DPs, is just kind of a joke due to the hoops you need to jump through to accomplish anything with it. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, pnkdth said:

Blissbarb Seekers are just as fast, can run and shoot, twice the wounds, more shots (4s/4s though), 18" range (as opposed to 12"), cause MWs on 6s. The Hurakan rule is also inferior to Seeker Cavalcades as they have to have charged to get the extra pile-in. We get to summon units to box them in. If you have access to Pavane of Slaanesh you can control where your opponent try to land with some of the speedy characters too. We also got access to Seekers if we really want to catch someone.

All in all, them goat riders look really weird. A lot of their abilities suggest a combat unit yet they're armed with 12" bows which put them in an awkward position. All that movement yet has to get all up in their opponents face at a very chargeable distance. I can see why LRL players aren't terribly hyped about these guys. It will come down unit cost which can see them being either a gimmicky unit or useful flank harasser/objective stealer.

However, I think the 'Teclis castle' list will be even tougher to face than before with all the movement abilities and spells. So in terms of the tournament meta, I think it will look much the same for LRL. With the disclaimer that I haven't had a deep dive in the LRL book yet. So I'm not really saying yay or nay yet, just making observations/speculations.

 

If im not mistaken these guys cost 130pts, the pile in shenanigans can be done all the time in certain subfaction (they also got +1 attack with the bows if within 3 of an enemy unit in the same subfaction, so more attacks in close combat) and got -2 rend. They can pile in out of combat (can ignore the pile in to the closest model) so they can freely disengage an enemy that charge them, since LRL activate two units every time, you can disengage two of these units as your first counter-activation, making them a total pain to remove from the table.

Now, if we are talking about the Blissbarb Seekers magically going down to 130pts, i can see the deal. Blissbarb Seekers are not bad anyway, at least you get insane movement speed in a bag of 20 wounds for a relative cheap point cost. But yeah, other guys get better toys for the most part. And if you are counting Seeker Cavalcade, remember that it cost even more points too, so you got to inflate the point cost of your Blissbarb Seekers a little. The subfaction that make the LRL do their improved shenanigans is free tho. Then we go to the complicated area of comparing our summoning to their double activation and our exploding 6s to the Aetherquartz mechaninc... Yeah, everyone get his own OP mehcanics in the allegiance abilities, but some pay an expensive extra point cost for them (poor Slaanesh) and others don't.

 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Enoby@AngryPanda

I apologize for my late reply but I think the poll is a very good way forward.

I made a post where I tagged people who expressed to various degrees their grievances with our new rules, there were quite a lot of them. Since that post, more people followed. In the last pages of this thread, we have more people stating their opinions, which also end up more negative. All in all,  our release was handled quite poorly, from rules to absence of new fiction book (Lumineth got 3 full novels, we zero). 

But we got very beautiful models, very few can compete with us.  That is what matters the most. Rules are temporary, models are forever.

I am continuing to play and my win rate is steadily increasing, but I stay clear of what I wish to play the most, Nobles of Excess and Slaangors. Looking around various websites, I do see a rather uniform opinion that Slaangors, Painbringers and Twinsouls need to be priority. 

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, LeonBox said:

I forget who mentioned it upthread and drew my attention to it, but it annoys me more and more that so many of our special abilities are contingent on dice rolls (or, at least, unfavourable dice rolls). Horrible Fascination, Locus, Glutos' ward save, the Shardspeaker's special ability, etc. etc. etc.

I also despise with a passion spells that require, in addition to being successfully cast, a dice roll to do something. Lash of Slaanesh in particular, a spell that ought to be great for generating DPs, is just kind of a joke due to the hoops you need to jump through to accomplish anything with it. 

Yeah, Yoid alluded to it earlier too. Abilities which is a guaranteed, always-on, or player choice in other armies isn't for HoS. We have to work around it whereas they don't. I kind of like this kind of design but then it needs to be consistent and come with more options like more fleshed out host rules, and so on. I still like the book though but it does have some glaring flows. Thankfully most of them can be sorted with point reductions, which would alleviate the randomness and over-costed units.

 

12 hours ago, Enoby said:

I really like twin souls mixed with a +1 save from Lurid Haze and a 5++ and Glutos nearby. They become a super tanky unit in an army that usually lacks a tank and they can later pack a punch. I am very tempted to start a larger army of them...

I've been leaning more and more toward Glutos too. Though have gone down the Godseeker + NoE route (+1 charge and re-rolling wounds is TIGHT!). Not an ultra-competitive choice but I want to see how I can make a balanced list with a refused flank setup. At this point though I cannot possibly see a world where we don't get a point reduction in the future. I've never really seen a source which claim the book is fairly costed.

 

6 hours ago, Yoid said:

If im not mistaken these guys cost 130pts, the pile in shenanigans can be done all the time in certain subfaction (they also got +1 attack with the bows if within 3 of an enemy unit in the same subfaction, so more attacks in close combat) and got -2 rend. They can pile in out of combat (can ignore the pile in to the closest model) so they can freely disengage an enemy that charge them, since LRL activate two units every time, you can disengage two of these units as your first counter-activation, making them a total pain to remove from the table.

Now, if we are talking about the Blissbarb Seekers magically going down to 130pts, i can see the deal. Blissbarb Seekers are not bad anyway, at least you get insane movement speed in a bag of 20 wounds for a relative cheap point cost. But yeah, other guys get better toys for the most part. And if you are counting Seeker Cavalcade, remember that it cost even more points too, so you got to inflate the point cost of your Blissbarb Seekers a little. The subfaction that make the LRL do their improved shenanigans is free tho. Then we go to the complicated area of comparing our summoning to their double activation and our exploding 6s to the Aetherquartz mechaninc... Yeah, everyone get his own OP mehcanics in the allegiance abilities, but some pay an expensive extra point cost for them (poor Slaanesh) and others don't.

They definitely got ways to fight back. All I'm saying is that we can match their speed and do it with both ranged and melee units. Though with the way Enrapturing Circlet is worded it seems the Hurakan rule can ignore it since they are piling out of combat not retreating. Pavane would be hilarious to land on one of their wind heroes though (24 on a 5+ MWs, 🎼   'you spin me round round round, like a record, baby, round round round' 🎼 ).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

39 minutes ago, pnkdth said:

Yeah, Yoid alluded to it earlier too. Abilities which is a guaranteed, always-on, or player choice in other armies isn't for HoS. We have to work around it whereas they don't. I kind of like this kind of design but then it needs to be consistent and come with more options like more fleshed out host rules, and so on. I still like the book though but it does have some glaring flows. Thankfully most of them can be sorted with point reductions, which would alleviate the randomness and over-costed units.

 

I've been leaning more and more toward Glutos too. Though have gone down the Godseeker + NoE route (+1 charge and re-rolling wounds is TIGHT!). Not an ultra-competitive choice but I want to see how I can make a balanced list with a refused flank setup. At this point though I cannot possibly see a world where we don't get a point reduction in the future. I've never really seen a source which claim the book is fairly costed.

 

They definitely got ways to fight back. All I'm saying is that we can match their speed and do it with both ranged and melee units. Though with the way Enrapturing Circlet is worded it seems the Hurakan rule can ignore it since they are piling out of combat not retreating. Pavane would be hilarious to land on one of their wind heroes though (24 on a 5+ MWs, 🎼   'you spin me round round round, like a record, baby, round round round' 🎼 ).

I had thought about pavane and the sheer comedy of smacking one of the fox spirits with it, however unless we tag one with a hero holding the Enrapturing Circlet, Pavane's 6" range and their 12" shooting phase movement in either turn means we'll never be realistically able to make that happen.

The only exception is planting a wizard next to the fane and daring Sevireth to knock it down, since he needs to be within 1" in the charge phase. Granted this can be done in your charge phase too after his shooting phase movement, so the turns would have to line up just right to make it happen.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 minutes ago, CeleFAZE said:

I had thought about pavane and the sheer comedy of smacking one of the fox spirits with it, however unless we tag one with a hero holding the Enrapturing Circlet, Pavane's 6" range and their 12" shooting phase movement in either turn means we'll never be realistically able to make that happen.

The only exception is planting a wizard next to the fane and daring Sevireth to knock it down, since he needs to be within 1" in the charge phase. Granted this can be done in your charge phase too after his shooting phase movement, so the turns would have to line up just right to make it happen.

The way I'm approaching it is how to create kill zones to effectively make all that movement, if not useless, not as impactful. Baiting is another tool. I believe Sevireth is 300 points too, so if we can reduce his impact then that's a sizeable chunk of points not making back its value. How can we turn all these rules against them? 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...