AoS 2 - Hedonites of Slaanesh Discussion

[ibel]

50 minutes ago, CeleFAZE said:

You can mix in S2D and daemons/mortals pretty well, though you'll have to consider the roles a lot more carefully than you would before.

But, let me be honest at the Moment every other army kill your DMGDealer in OneRound. No Problem.

All out Defense (VarangaurdPLWarband) or all Out Offens. I know no Competativ Army with big Parts (50/50 or something like this) with both Parts.

Sad i know, but hey thats the game we Play

[umpac]

I had another game against a  competitive FS list on total commitment. My list was:

Spoiler

 

Godseeker

Glutos

Keeper (general, speed chaser, circlet)

Shardspeaker

 

11x3 Blissbarb archers

6 Fiends

2x8 Iron golems

 

Mesmerizing Mirror

Extra CP

 

Made some early mistakes and lost the general turn 1 to double magmadroths flaming away my screen and making a long charge. He rolled hot and put 5 wounds from the javelin into him and I ended up losing my last wound to the mortal bounce back from my own last attack. Counter attack from fiends and archers took them down. Glutos and fiends then swept the left flank while his lord of the lodge block of HGB got blocked up by iron golems and Glutos spell. Game ended when I could summon in 20 daemonettes on his back objective so we ended the game at turn 4 with the score being 17 vs 5. Here's my impressions of unit performance:

Glutos:

Spoiler

His warscroll spell is great and -1 to hit is always good but I felt like he didnt perform very well. His buffs has tiny ranges (within 6" or wholly within 12") and he's pretty slow by Slaanesh standards. He's a lot tankier than a KoS, but once his priestess dies or if he whiffs the 2+ he still goes down fairly quickly and he doesn't have locus protecting him. Warrants more play testing but first impressions are pretty lukewarm as he had a very minor impact on the game for 400pts. Didn't love him, didn't hate him.

Fiends:

Spoiler

Fiends did okay. Good damage output, especially with Excess of Violence. Pretty tanky in melee. In the final turn it became evident that anything that bypasses the combat debuffs just  shreds them as 3 HGB piled in twice and put 6 wounds into them. I think fiends are fine but they are to match up dependent. Shooting, magic and MWs on 6s puts them in the ground real fast.

Mirror:

Spoiler

This impression is very skewed since FS can't dispel endless spells and have a ton of heroes but the mirror was fantastic. The damage is kind of janky as you fairly often end up rolling zero 6s, but the fact that it can damage a bunch of units in the opponents turn and generate depravity in placed that would otherwise be impossible is great. Great range too means we have something to cast turn 1 if we are made to go first (which we probably will be most of the time).

Iron golem:

Spoiler

Shoutout to @swarmofseals, Iron golems were great. One unit provided cheap screening, the other ended up generating 6 DP on its own. At 10 wounds, bravery 8 and 4+ re-rollable save that also works against shooting they will survive for a while unless your opponent put some real damage into them.

Playing against DoT tomorrow. Gonna try out Slickblades in Cavalcade, see how they fare.

Edited February 22, 2021 by umpac

[LeonBox]

Interesting hearing all the different takes on Glutos -- seems some people swear by him whilst others don't really consider him worth it. Not seeing all that much of Siggy either. 

[CeleFAZE]

23 minutes ago, ibel said:

But, let me be honest at the Moment every other army kill your DMGDealer in OneRound. No Problem.

All out Defense (VarangaurdPLWarband) or all Out Offens. I know no Competativ Army with big Parts (50/50 or something like this) with both Parts.

Sad i know, but hey thats the game we Play

Kroak with skinks, saurus guard and bastilodons is one example right off the top of my head that has proven results with a multi-pronged approach. Also most cities lists I've faced (at least one from a top regional player) utilize a mix of unit types between offense and defense, with a strategy that utilizes both to great effect. Heavy skew lists run the risk of a bad matchups that can tank you hard, for instance certain heavy offensive lists will bounce right off defensive skew. I've had decent experience against KO and honestly they really don't worry me all that much. 

Our damage dealers have the movement speed to be kept out of radius of a number of threats out the gate, and one option that fully removes all or a portion of our heavy hitters from the board until the end of our first movement phase. We also have the ability to tailor our reinforcements to whatever we need for any given opponent, which allows for us to re-tailor on the fly for basically any matchup if we play smart.

We're not point-click-win like some armies, but we have the tools to thwart them in a number of annoying ways. There's no denying that we are certainly overcosted in areas, with at least one absolute dud in the book (looking at you, slaangors). But there are some tools for delightfully janky play that can throw a wrench in our opponent's gears, some that no other books really have. We're one of the few books that can switch off an opponents use of command abilities (by two separate means), and while he is certainly overcosted we also have one of the only models in the game that simply ignores damage negation with fairly strong attacks.

Edited February 22, 2021 by CeleFAZE

[JackStreicher]

2 hours ago, ibel said:

But than u have a big lack in Output (no EvKillers (exploding 6ses) no NoPileIn)

I would be very Happy if the PowerLvl whould be that lvl of the Hedonit Book. But it isn`nt. The PowerCap is more in the Points of the DoK Book. but okay okay, Maybe there is a big Point Change with the next FAQ and Rulechanges with AoS 3.0 than….. but at the Moment for me it`s fun against old T3 to T5 Armys but against my Playgroup (KO, Tzeenth, DOK, Seras) Tournement Oriented it is a mist, so i think i go VarangaurdHeroPlaguetouchedWarband Army.

I figured it might work if you use the Slaanesh Battalion of S2D and then put those units into a hedonites army. Only issue: The Battalion's contents are way too heavy on the points X_X (unless you spam Chaos Spawns, which is a legit tactic imo)

 

Edit: The Battalion grants a 6" pile-in if any unit of the batalion caused a casualty this combat phase iirc

Edited February 22, 2021 by JackStreicher

[Enoby]

21 hours ago, Fyrenn said:

Wow, that's great - just saw your painting blog.  Question, if you don't mind - where did you get the head?  Is that a 3D print you designed yourself?! 

Thank you this skull is a 3d print; I can't remember the stl file (sorry) but I do remember that it's free and on Thingiverse (I think it's called a Jackalope skull or maybe Wendigo skull). 

Unfortunately I cannot take credit for it! I have only ever sculpted one stag skull out of greenstuff, and that was enough for me

[ibel]

20 minutes ago, CeleFAZE said:

Kroak with skinks, saurus guard and bastilodons is one example right off the top of my head that has proven results with a multi-pronged approach

Okay, but Skinks have very good offensiv and defens Builds, Kroak is just Offensiv, Bastilladons okay the really think what is just tanky but.... ALL These Units are Defensiv and Offise very good. Not just in one think...

but okay, okay Guys. I will try a few games with a few List and have a look what something can do with this book, but i was very suprised if this book is more than Fun 4Friends Games, I dont see them in the TOP 10-20% of a really good Tournament. Until all Points are cheeckd an be down..... (10 to 30%)

[JackStreicher]

I am talking about something like this (still some room to add more hedonites like Slickblades and the likes)
 

Pleasurebound.pdf

[Izotzuhure]

I know this army won't probably be a lot of competitive, nor the right way to play the army with its new playstyle, but I like how it looks.

Invaders - Lurid Haze 

Archaon

Glutos

X10 Daemonettes

X10 Daemonettes

X20 Marauders

X6 Fiends

Geminids

 

It lacks the bodies and it looks to kill more than generating DP properly, but it must be fun to play with. 

 

[Enoby]

2 hours ago, Izotzuhure said:

I know this army won't probably be a lot of competitive, nor the right way to play the army with its new playstyle, but I like how it looks.

Invaders - Lurid Haze 

Archaon

Glutos

X10 Daemonettes

X10 Daemonettes

X20 Marauders

X6 Fiends

Geminids

 

It lacks the bodies and it looks to kill more than generating DP properly, but it must be fun to play with. 

 

I think this would work well, though your struggle would be with having board control - Archaon may need to go off to clear areas of the board while Glutos and the fiends clear others. What would have priority in the Lurid Haze teleport?

Unrelated, but here's my design for the twin souls

[Izotzuhure]

43 minutes ago, Enoby said:

I think this would work well, though your struggle would be with having board control - Archaon may need to go off to clear areas of the board while Glutos and the fiends clear others. What would have priority in the Lurid Haze teleport?

Unrelated, but here's my design for the twin souls

Marauders would be the ones off the board. Maybe even some Daemonettes as well if I'm playing against another super elite army. 

I know Archaon is not ideal, but I was working on a conversion before the battletome so I wanted to squeeze him in every list haha Summoning more Daemonettes would be the right way to compensate the lack of bodies as I already have enough hitters. 

That head looks amazing! 

[Enoby]

3 minutes ago, Izotzuhure said:

Marauders would be the ones off the board. Maybe even some Daemonettes as well if I'm playing against another super elite army. 

I know Archaon is not ideal, but I was working on a conversion before the battletome so I wanted to squeeze him in every list haha Summoning more Daemonettes would be the right way to compensate the lack of bodies as I already have enough hitters. 

That head looks amazing! 

Thank you

I've found Archaon great in a bubble - he can hit and tank worth his points (with a chaos sorcerer lord) but he can't be everywhere at once. I've won a lot of games with Archaon (last book) but it's always been tight because the rest of the army is often lacking due to low points. That said, so long as Archaon does well, he can almost carry an army

[Sorrow]

@Enoby

Tell me those models are going to be part of Fangs of the Leviathan!

[Golub87]

We might want to start making specialized topics given that we have a shiny new subforum for our shiny new battletome.

[AngryPanda]

I’m pretty happy to see that people are having success with the new battletome. It seems to me that the way to go, competitively, is to take a small number of ranged/anvil battleline units that can hold objectives, while focusing the majority of points towards heroes or damage dealers/utility like fiends or Slickblades. 
 

So far, I’ve seen that iron golems and chaos warriors are great choices, as well as minimum-sized units of Blissbarb archers; both can sit on objectives while the rest of the army moves  up to cause havoc. KoS are still the stars of the show, but our new mortal special characters are also pretty great as well. Slickblades can also run around and do some decent damage as harassment-based units.
 

However, I haven’t heard any positive news about painbringers, twinsouls, and Fiendbloods. I’ve read that twinsouls had some positive results against DoK, and I can imagine them doing well against other low armored armies such as Ogors or Goblins; however I still feel these units are a bit overpriced for what they bring; especially considering that we can get anvil units that are far cheaper and more efficient at holding objectives. 
 

I’m on the fence about Lords of Pain and shardspeakers. I believe that because the mortal foot sloggers are generally not being taken, I haven’t seen them in lists as much; I’m hoping to see more play testing with these guys in addition to the new mortals. 

Edited February 22, 2021 by AngryPanda

[swarmofseals]

@AngryPanda I think that's about right. Fiendbloods are very overcosted. Twinsouls and myrmidesh are closer to being reasonably costed (especially twinsouls) but there just isn't much reason (competitively) to take them when there are other options that do the same job but are also faster.

_______________________________________________

One interesting thing about Archaon in a Slaanesh shell is that summoning can potentially overcome one of the major weaknesses of Archaon builds (the lack of board presence). I may have to try him out.

[Iradekhorne]

Guys, can we still use the sub-factions of wrath of the everchosen?

The new battletome doesn't invalidate all the previus??

[Golub87]

3 minutes ago, Iradekhorne said:

Guys, can we still use the sub-factions of wrath of the everchosen?

The new battletome doesn't invalidate all the previus??

We sure can. That said, Lurid Haze is the only one that is worthwhile IMHO.

[Enoby]

3 hours ago, Sorrow said:

@Enoby

Tell me those models are going to be part of Fangs of the Leviathan!

They certainly will be getting my lord of pain painted up now

[meatpipeline]

For people looking at self-wounding to gain depravity, have you thought about allying in a Lord of Afflictions w/ Incubatch?  It's a 2+ MW within 3".  Virulent Discharge makes it a little more risky (6+ D3 MW within 3"), but as a mobile resilient hero there is utility later in the game.  At 190 points, it is much more expensive than the plague sensor bearers mentioned earlier, but you can expect it to survive much longer.  LoA has the mortal and daemon keywords if that ends up being relevant.

[BOTTL]

I have an LoA lying around from a Maggotkin army that never took off... I may have to consider this!

Also this is my first post on TGA, so hi I guess

[swarmofseals]

@meatpipeline Lord of Afflictions is certainly interesting. He's a lot more expensive and I don't think he'd contribute a ton more, but a 2+ is a lot more reliable than a 4+. 130 extra points is a hefty price though. Certainly worth testing.

[LeonBox]

Does anyone have some good recommendations for marauder proxies? The official models are ugly as all hell. I was thinking Bloodreavers but they lack shields and have Khorne imagery all over them. 

[swarmofseals]

Avatars of War Marauders of the Apocalypse aren't bad but good luck finding them. These guys from mierce are good, but you'll want to get them when they are on sale as otherwise they are very expensive.

Perhaps your best bet would be to use warcry models and convert them.

[Golub87]

1 hour ago, LeonBox said:

Does anyone have some good recommendations for marauder proxies? The official models are ugly as all hell. I was thinking Bloodreavers but they lack shields and have Khorne imagery all over them. 

I use Splintered Fang and The Unmade as marauders. Just place them all on 25mm bases and you are good to go.

It's not like those great models will ever see play as their original warscrolls.