Twh30 Posted March 31, 2020 Share Posted March 31, 2020 1 hour ago, gronnelg said: @Skreech VerminkingSo... You're saying such a list is actually good? Because I haven't seen any pros use such a list. Omg.... Can you imagine showing up at a tourney "Excuse sir, for a half an hour or two, while I deploy my 400 rats. Myes! Myesss Indeed!" I guess you kinda dependent, or rather totally dependent on going first though, because once you opponent takes the objectives, your clanrats hitting with their paper towels won't do anything. In such a situation it surely would be great if we had a retreat and charge ability, to just swarm the objectives, and take them without killing the opponent. Oh.... Wait.... But seriously though, the opponent could just screen you off the objectives. Right? ... Right? Someone stop me from buying more rats than I could ever hope to paint! If your worried about the first turn choice, you could put in couple units of night runners to make your opponent have a decision to make after tour pre game move? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Red King Posted April 1, 2020 Share Posted April 1, 2020 I finally finished my Verminlord (Skreech Verminking)! I decided to make a custom head by mixing because I didnt think the Verminking head option really conveyed the "all aspects in one" ness of him. 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nikobot Posted April 1, 2020 Share Posted April 1, 2020 13 hours ago, Gwendar said: Well, that's the thing; I don't like to make those comparisons. Units are balanced for what they do within an army\what buffs are available to it. Either way.. I'll just throw 2 things together that first come to mind; Hammerers and Sisters of Slaughter: @Gwendar you're fast becoming a hero of mine totally agree units cant be compared in isolation, simply not right and are a function of the army they belong to. in saying that, its still something of a measuring stick to know the heirarchy of things in a loose fashion the comparison gives me the loose impression yes they could be better, but i wouldnt be mostly focused on the optimal loadouts for SoS and hammers, as the requirements are too different to compare. comparing peak output based on multiple chancey buffs is prob less perfect. Personally, I'd like to focus on whats reliably acheivable moreso., or at least dont include the "kitchen sink" every time. I personally think their biggest weakness is something you mentioned, how they drop off as they die, and that makes the strongest case for a points drop. the value curve is all skewed because of this. A unit of 10 is much more useless than 40 model-for-model yet costs more per model. But thats a skaven thing, so... well its another challenge doing comparisons. Another missing ingredient is they dont seem to have as many buffs to access as some peers. Looking at Seraphon as an extreme example, its just layers and layers of synergy. Actually, if you have time @Gwendar would you mind doing a compare vs a few saurus builds? harder to compare due to base size, but would be interesting to see, how say 20 compares all in all, after thinking about it my gut tells me that 9-10 points per model and debatably without/reduced horde bonus, funnily enough. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodhell Posted April 1, 2020 Share Posted April 1, 2020 Hello guys, quite new to skavens I plaques khorne for more than two year before but wanted to go go for the nasty rats rats. I have to say i'm used to try to reduce poses and I really like Stormfiends models ahah. I would like your thoughts about that list : ++ **Pitched Battle** 2,000 (Chaos - Skaven) [2,000pts] +++ Battleline +Clanrats [120pts]: 20 Clanrats, Bell Ringer, Clanshields, Rusty Blades, Standard BearersClanrats [120pts]: 20 Clanrats, Bell Ringer, Clanshields, Rusty Blades, Standard BearersClanrats [120pts]: 20 Clanrats, Bell Ringer, Clanshields, Rusty Blades, Standard Bearers+ Battalion +Battalion: Warpcog Convocation [1,640pts]: Warpcog Convocation. Arch-warlock: 1. More-more-more Warp Power!, 5. Deranged Inventor, 6. Vigordust Injector, General - Clans Skyre. Enginecoven: Arkhspark Voltik: Arkhspark Voltik. . Warlock Engineer: 2. Chain Warp Lightning. . Warp Lightning Cannon. Enginecoven: Whyrlblade Threshik: Whyrlblade Threshik. . Doom-flayer. . Doomwheel. . Doomwheel. . Stormfiends: 2x 3 Stormfiends, 2x Doomflayer Gauntlets, 2x Ratling Cannons, 2x Windlaunchers. . Warlock Engineer: 1. More-more-more Warp Power!, 3. Esoteric Warp Resonator+ Allegiance +Allegiance: Allegiance: Skaventide+ Game Options +Game Type: 2000 Points - Battlehost++ Total: [2,000pts] ++It contains multiples threats as said here but with 4 poses it has a chance to not go first. Mobility is high and the doom-flayer is there to go through gnawholes to play distraction and try to grab rear objectives. So what do you think guys and girls ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gwendar Posted April 1, 2020 Share Posted April 1, 2020 @Nikobot Right, and it's fine to compare them in that regard. All in all we just don't have an ultra strong CC unit that can just delete something even if it only has 10-20 models left in the unit.. but are we supposed to? By design I feel that should be Moulder/Eshin but until they get a rework (updated models that GW can sell which will mean better rules) then our strength will continue to stay in shooting/magic.. and even in those regards we're beaten by a lot. Skaven have always kind of been jack-of-all-master-of-none in AoS. Having less buffs isn't bad when the units are good on paper. CoS suffers from a lot of things going wrong to make a unit be able to do what you need it to do (like the scenario I gave with Hammerers and a Bridge) but those units are also a lot better on their own. The 4+ to hit hurts them a lot and for their cost they need to be inherently hitting on 3's in my opinion. Bestigors suffer from the same ordeal but.. again you have to look at tools and buffs that can be given to them. All we really have is "hey I hope you can stay above 20 models!" Which can only be managed by how much your opponent focuses into them. So many things will 1-shot that unit and you've just lost nearly a quarter of your army.. 15 SoS or Hammerers can still get a job done, 15 Stormvermin cannot. As for Saurus, me and my local Seraphon player did a lot of these calculations once the time came out. If I recall, 20 Saurus Warriors with Spears and all buffs possible do about the same damage as 40 Stormvermin.. and again, a lot of those buffing units you'll take regardless.. and a lot of their buffs are CP based and they generate a lot of CP. It's easy for them to throw in another 2-3 threats on top of that due to how cheap their units are but.. on paper they're all generally pretty bad which is why they suffer from hero deaths so hard. I'd be more worried about 40 Skinks; fully buffed that shooting isn't actually terrible and rivals our own with the added ability of being able to shoot twice and/or teleport. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skreech Verminking Posted April 1, 2020 Share Posted April 1, 2020 So it seems like we’ve gotten a new image from the RPG game that’s coming out soon. looks fantastic 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twh30 Posted April 1, 2020 Share Posted April 1, 2020 1 hour ago, Gwendar said: @Nikobot Right, and it's fine to compare them in that regard. All in all we just don't have an ultra strong CC unit that can just delete something even if it only has 10-20 models left in the unit.. but are we supposed to? By design I feel that should be Moulder/Eshin but until they get a rework (updated models that GW can sell which will mean better rules) then our strength will continue to stay in shooting/magic.. and even in those regards we're beaten by a lot. Skaven have always kind of been jack-of-all-master-of-none in AoS. Having less buffs isn't bad when the units are good on paper. CoS suffers from a lot of things going wrong to make a unit be able to do what you need it to do (like the scenario I gave with Hammerers and a Bridge) but those units are also a lot better on their own. The 4+ to hit hurts them a lot and for their cost they need to be inherently hitting on 3's in my opinion. Bestigors suffer from the same ordeal but.. again you have to look at tools and buffs that can be given to them. All we really have is "hey I hope you can stay above 20 models!" Which can only be managed by how much your opponent focuses into them. So many things will 1-shot that unit and you've just lost nearly a quarter of your army.. 15 SoS or Hammerers can still get a job done, 15 Stormvermin cannot. As for Saurus, me and my local Seraphon player did a lot of these calculations once the time came out. If I recall, 20 Saurus Warriors with Spears and all buffs possible do about the same damage as 40 Stormvermin.. and again, a lot of those buffing units you'll take regardless.. and a lot of their buffs are CP based and they generate a lot of CP. It's easy for them to throw in another 2-3 threats on top of that due to how cheap their units are but.. on paper they're all generally pretty bad which is why they suffer from hero deaths so hard. I'd be more worried about 40 Skinks; fully buffed that shooting isn't actually terrible and rivals our own with the added ability of being able to shoot twice and/or teleport. I agree with the jack of all trades. This can also be a bonus collecting this army the fact you can adjust the list your using to fit meta . 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gwendar Posted April 1, 2020 Share Posted April 1, 2020 55 minutes ago, Twh30 said: I agree with the jack of all trades. This can also be a bonus collecting this army the fact you can adjust the list your using to fit meta . Oh definitely, and I enjoy the fact that we can everything reasonably well. That said, I don't think anyone would disagree that Eshin and Moulder need that update to fulfill more niches in the army to emphasize that point; I would much rather bring 6+ Rat Ogres with some buffed stats for my CC unit than just the HPA or 40 Monks.. and I only do both of those because they're cheap, but their output sort of reflects that cost. 6 Rat Ogres with a Packmaster (360 points) and 20 Gutter Runners on their own (200 points) are both going to do be doing ~13-15 damage on average vs a 4+.. and that would be okay if we were playing AoS from 2-3 years ago. For 40-80 more points I can get 2 different units that don't need support that will generally double that damage and put out MW's. Gutter Runners of course can be valued as Skirmishers with run+shoot but.. is it worth it when they hit\wound so poorly? They should've been closer to Shadow Warriors in stats, in my opinion. Oh look, I ranted again.. I'm gonna go back to work now 😅 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red_moo Posted April 1, 2020 Share Posted April 1, 2020 Hello guys! I busted out my 15 years old skaven and I am educating myself about what a good competitive build would look like these days or in the mid future. I hope a core of 3x20 clanrats, 9 jezzails and 1 warp lightning cannon with engi is a viable base. I also have 2 rattling guns. Beyond that I know I can go the standard build with 40 monks, screaming bell, verminlord to round it off, but I hope there are other options. The problem I am having is whether I should splurge out and get the battleforce box which gives me exactly that (build the 20 clanrats as monks) or are there better, less casting reliant options that I should use my money on. Or... should I buy it anyway (i know thats a bit of an unfair question, but I'm strung between it being a good deal and it meaning I'm locked in to that build)? If anyone has any insight to get me up to speed please do tell. Thank you and good luck in these weird times... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verminlord Posted April 1, 2020 Share Posted April 1, 2020 On 3/31/2020 at 9:01 AM, Skreech Verminking said: 1)well most pros if you call them so are mostly more interested in blasting the enemy of the table as soon as possible. and moving 400rats isn’t really that pleasant 2)nop, but I’ll probably see that face soon, considering that I’ll be having a ton of time to paint my rats. (Although I’ve already seen the reaction my friends made when they fought against that list and it was hilarious (especially against that slaanesh player that literally was only out for the win) 3) considering that most of your foes will probably be buff-led to that point of no return, I don’t think they’ll be able to think straight to be able to give you the second turn at all. another reason why most player would be much more interested in taking the second turn rather the first one, is to basically come in range with their shooting units or have a guaranty to alpha strike you immediately and gain the chance of taking the next turn. and should they still take the first turn to well take the objective from you, you really shouldn’t worry too much, since the meta has really shifted from hordes to elite, and even those more hordy armies like bonereapers ususally only field 60-80 of their more hordy infanterie units. with almost 400bpdies, and the possibility to retreat and charge there is literally no way for your opponent to keep you from those objective So how could we optimize this? Add a bell or two for battleshock immunity? Maybe a snoutgrovel foot grey seer with the bell of doom spell? Warpgrinder or two for back board threat? Thinking something like this: Spoiler Allegiance: SkaventideGrey Seer on Screaming Bell (240)- General- Command Trait: Verminous Valour- Lore of Ruin: Death FrenzyGrey Seer on Screaming Bell (240)- Artefact: Suspicious Stone- Lore of Ruin: Warpgale40 x Clanrats (200)- Rusty Spear40 x Clanrats (200)- Rusty Spear40 x Clanrats (200)- Rusty Spear40 x Clanrats (200)- Rusty Spear40 x Clanrats (200)- Rusty Spear40 x Clanrats (200)- Rusty Spear40 x Clanrats (200)- Rusty Spear1 x Warp-Grinder (80)Vermintide (40)Total: 2000 / 2000Extra Command Points: 0Allies: 0 / 400Wounds: 309 OR Allegiance: SkaventideGrey Seer (140)- General- Command Trait: Verminous Valour- Artefact: Snoutgrovel Robes- Lore of Ruin: Warpgale40 x Clanrats (200)- Rusty Spear40 x Clanrats (200)- Rusty Spear40 x Clanrats (200)- Rusty Spear40 x Clanrats (200)- Rusty Spear40 x Clanrats (200)- Rusty Spear40 x Clanrats (200)- Rusty Spear40 x Clanrats (200)- Rusty Spear40 x Clanrats (200)- Rusty Spear40 x Clanrats (200)- Rusty SpearBell of Doom (40)Total: 1980 / 2000Extra Command Points: 0Allies: 0 / 400Wounds: 365 The bells list give you two relatively tanky heros for the battleplans that require them and if you get lucky with the bell rolls you could summon Skreech for more clanrat summoning 🤣 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmicsheep Posted April 2, 2020 Share Posted April 2, 2020 Just completed my Verminlord build. Magnetised arms allow me to build the Verminking, Warpseer and Deciever. I could add the Warbringer but decided that the Corruptor’s second arm would be too tricky to magnetise. I only really plan on running these 3 anyway. Head is also magnetised to help fit inside my carry case. It wasn’t all that difficult to do, the hardest part was gluing a magnet inside the shoulder without using any greenstuff. After that it’s just a few holes with a drill bit 😁 1 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firefrog Posted April 2, 2020 Share Posted April 2, 2020 18 hours ago, Gwendar said: Oh definitely, and I enjoy the fact that we can everything reasonably well. That said, I don't think anyone would disagree that Eshin and Moulder need that update to fulfill more niches in the army to emphasize that point; I would much rather bring 6+ Rat Ogres with some buffed stats for my CC unit than just the HPA or 40 Monks.. and I only do both of those because they're cheap, but their output sort of reflects that cost. 6 Rat Ogres with a Packmaster (360 points) and 20 Gutter Runners on their own (200 points) are both going to do be doing ~13-15 damage on average vs a 4+.. and that would be okay if we were playing AoS from 2-3 years ago. For 40-80 more points I can get 2 different units that don't need support that will generally double that damage and put out MW's. Gutter Runners of course can be valued as Skirmishers with run+shoot but.. is it worth it when they hit\wound so poorly? They should've been closer to Shadow Warriors in stats, in my opinion. Oh look, I ranted again.. I'm gonna go back to work now 😅 I definitely agree, and while it's a definite shooting meta right now I do feel we have one of the worst shooting compared to other shooting armies. Not that it's bad, but just overshadowed right now. Playing against the new Seraphon makes me think what the hell were they thinking. I do like how we're able to adapt to any meta, with so many units. I still think the nerfs were unwarranted, as we got nothing in return and tournament ratings show it (only a measly 40-45%, before december we were barely 50% winchance) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gwendar Posted April 2, 2020 Share Posted April 2, 2020 2 hours ago, Firefrog said: I definitely agree, and while it's a definite shooting meta right now I do feel we have one of the worst shooting compared to other shooting armies. Not that it's bad, but just overshadowed right now. Playing against the new Seraphon makes me think what the hell were they thinking. I do like how we're able to adapt to any meta, with so many units. I still think the nerfs were unwarranted, as we got nothing in return and tournament ratings show it (only a measly 40-45%, before december we were barely 50% winchance) Yeah, why 40 Skinks with blowpipes shoot on the same level as Fiends for what they cost is beyond me. Compounding the cost of all those buffing units you'll take anyway and it's still cheaper/around the same cost. I don't mind being lower tiered at all, but it is a little demoralizing to get hit so much for.. what? The WLV and Monk changes I understand, as the point cost increases.. but the 9 Fiend thing I'll never get. Hearthguard Berserkers also got reduced, but if anything it made them better as people just run 2x20 now which more beneficial overall. I will continue to eagerly await the day we get the Eshin/Rictus with Skryre tech update. I just woke up, why do you have to get me started 😉 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twh30 Posted April 2, 2020 Share Posted April 2, 2020 2 hours ago, Firefrog said: I definitely agree, and while it's a definite shooting meta right now I do feel we have one of the worst shooting compared to other shooting armies. Not that it's bad, but just overshadowed right now. Playing against the new Seraphon makes me think what the hell were they thinking. I do like how we're able to adapt to any meta, with so many units. I still think the nerfs were unwarranted, as we got nothing in return and tournament ratings show it (only a measly 40-45%, before december we were barely 50% winchance) The 1 benefit we have over most shooting armies( not seraphon ;)) is the fact can drop load models in front of our shooting if need be Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firefrog Posted April 2, 2020 Share Posted April 2, 2020 37 minutes ago, Gwendar said: I just woke up, why do you have to get me started 😉 Because we're Skaven (players) 😄 My honest opinion about why they nerfed it from 9 to 6 is because they were only exlusively played with Soulscream Bridge which was supposedly very strong (never got to try it myself). While I'm more amazed by why the bridge itself wasn't nerfed to only allow 1 unit to go through it like gnawholes, because against Hallowheart CoS their whole army goes through. Stormfiends in units of 6 are still fine, but they're so weak for their points. 560 points for Stormfiends is so high when unbuffed they barely do anything and quite frankly, pretty easy to shut down with a maximum range of 18". Recently bought 1 Doomflayer, so I can try the Whyrlblade Threshik battalion, 21" makes so much difference because in scenario's where you are 24" from the enemy it's so easy to avoid them for 1-2 turns. Something like: Spoiler Allegiance: SkaventideLeadersWarlock Engineer (100)Warlock Engineer (100)Arch-Warlock (160)Battleline20 x Clanrats (120)- Rusty Spear20 x Clanrats (120)- Rusty Spear20 x Clanrats (120)- Rusty SpearUnits6 x Stormfiends (520)1 x Doom-Flayer (60)1 x Doomwheel (160)1 x Doomwheel (160)ArtilleryWarp Lightning Cannon (180)BattalionsArkhspark Voltik (60)Warpcog Convocation (60)Whyrlblade Threshik (80)Total: 2000 / 2000Extra Command Points: 1Allies: 0 / 400Wounds: 139 And the exra 3" also counts for any move so including run and charge, which is nice! Don't think it'll be competetive but it'll be fun at least 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drib Posted April 2, 2020 Share Posted April 2, 2020 First of all many thanks for your detailed and indepth write-up! I only found two small things to add. On 3/31/2020 at 4:39 PM, Gwendar said: [..] If I missed anything\got something wrong let me know.. [..] I let you know: You could have clarified that you need a Masterclan (Greyseer) for the Skavenbrew. At first I was puzzled and thought you got the points wrong .. The Greyseer could also add Death Frenzy as sidenote. You could also add a Warbringer with RR 1s to hit+wound (and Dreaded Death Frenzy) for a total of 970. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gwendar Posted April 2, 2020 Share Posted April 2, 2020 2 hours ago, Twh30 said: The 1 benefit we have over most shooting armies( not seraphon ;)) is the fact can drop load models in front of our shooting if need be Eh, I guess, but so can CoS and.. well, like you said, Seraphon just as a couple of examples. Not that CoS is topping tables or anything, but they do well enough just like we do. Tzeentch can also throw out a bunch of Horrors in your face, though people have mostly figured out how to deal with this and their stay at the top didn't last more than a week or two 😉 1 hour ago, Firefrog said: My honest opinion about why they nerfed it from 9 to 6 is because they were only exlusively played with Soulscream Bridge which was supposedly very strong (never got to try it myself). While I'm more amazed by why the bridge itself wasn't nerfed to only allow 1 unit to go through it like gnawholes, because against Hallowheart CoS their whole army goes through. Stormfiends in units of 6 are still fine, but they're so weak for their points. 560 points for Stormfiends is so high when unbuffed they barely do anything and quite frankly, pretty easy to shut down with a maximum range of 18". There was a big rumor going around a month or two before the big FAQ that the Bridge would be changed to only allow 1 unit across at a time.. yet it never happened. My theory on that is that we'll get a new set\rebox of Endless Spells potentially.. or at least just an update. Could explain why the Balewind is no longer on the webstore. Bridge was very powerful in the same way it is for CoS, though it works better for them as you said with their insane shooting\magic combined with the double range on Bridge. TE\HH both tend to lean heavily into alpha-striking and it that fails they crumble.. Skaven have to be a bit more methodical and try to go for a T2\3 heavy hitter. Anyway, Bridge can still be useful for 6 Fiends, it's just more of a utility thing than T1 shooting something off like it was with 9; losing those 3 extra shots from the Windlauncher makes it hard to 1-shot a support hero with Lo,S.. and unless they went first, you were almost never in range to hit anything with the Ratlings anyway. Even then a competitive player is going to pre-measure movement to be out of range and hope you don't get a double. I love and hate them.. I love running my 30 Acolytes, but they have their own weaknesses (ultra short range and a huge footprint on the table) but their cost and potential damage makes them nice.. but the bottom line is that Stormfiends are just far easier to use, "more defensive", and take up less of a footprint. And yes, you can charge them into something if you're sure they can clear it in melee and shoot next turn.. if it doesn't leave you open to a counter charge. So yeah, I agree with what you're saying overall. ...man, I need to play so bad, I can only take so much of saying but not doing 😅 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gwendar Posted April 2, 2020 Share Posted April 2, 2020 Just now, Drib said: First of all many thanks for your detailed and indepth write-up! I only found two small things to add. I let you know: You could have clarified that you need a Masterclan (Greyseer) for the Skavenbrew. At first I was puzzled and thought you got the points wrong .. The Greyseer could also add Death Frenzy as sidenote. You could also add a Warbringer with RR 1s to hit+wound (and Dreaded Death Frenzy) for a total of 970. Thanks! And sorry if that wasn't clear? When I mentioned Skavenbrew, I was implying you would need a Grey Seer since they're the only ones that can take it. I also included that in the total cost. Yeah, I know I mentioned the SoS bladed bucklers, but that wasn't included in any calculations. DF is going to be beneficial since they will inevitably die.. it's just something I thought about while typing all of that but I didn't put it to keyboard. Even if they delete what they charge, if you get DF and\or DDF off on them then that's something that your opponent is going to likely avoid with their CC units. Of course, they're just as susceptible to shooting as everything else, so yeah. As for the Warbringer, yeah that's true, and including his CA you would up the Stormvermins damage to be almost exactly on par (though still 3-5 lower) with the other 2 units fully buffed; it also keeps them hitting at that level for longer. The problem I have with him is just that I don't want to bring a 280 point model that's only real purpose is to buff a 450 point unit. The other armies mentioned are already bringing the things required anyway, DoK especially. CoS units are already good on paper and many of these buffing units are quite cheap to include; everyone brings a Hurricanum 90% of the time anyway, but you don't just bring a Warbringer unless it's buffing something. Those 280 points could just be 40 Monks or a host of other things.. and while his melee profile is okay, it still isn't that great. Now... if the SV went down in price, then yeah, I would be buying another VL kit and putting one together 😉 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coyote Posted April 4, 2020 Share Posted April 4, 2020 Minor subject change - Anyone hear anything about any Skaven news? (Aside from WHF roleplay, video games - (any system), or OldHammer?) Any points discussion, rumors of Warscroll changes, any anything? Running out of models to paint, may need to bid on another (unpainted) Skaven army on EBay or something to get me excited again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gwendar Posted April 5, 2020 Share Posted April 5, 2020 8 hours ago, Coyote said: Minor subject change - Anyone hear anything about any Skaven news? (Aside from WHF roleplay, video games - (any system), or OldHammer?) Any points discussion, rumors of Warscroll changes, any anything? Running out of models to paint, may need to bid on another (unpainted) Skaven army on EBay or something to get me excited again. Even with it being the year of the rat I don't really see anything.. but that isn't to say something won't happen out of nowhere with no leaks or hints. I don't think any of the rumor mill pictures have anything particularly Skaven-like so as much as I hate to say it, I don't believe we're getting anything this year. I'd love to be proven incorrect though, please GW. Give me my updated Eshin\Skurvy-using-Skryre-tech DoK style release 😉 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skreech Verminking Posted April 5, 2020 Share Posted April 5, 2020 14 hours ago, Coyote said: Minor subject change - Anyone hear anything about any Skaven news? (Aside from WHF roleplay, video games - (any system), or OldHammer?) Any points discussion, rumors of Warscroll changes, any anything? Running out of models to paint, may need to bid on another (unpainted) Skaven army on EBay or something to get me excited again. I ssadly haven’t heard of any rumours. as much as I would love to see some love for the skaven, a feeling is telling me that there probably won’t be much this year. but With a bit of luck there might be something fir next year considering that the years of the rat goes beyond our own way of dating years. so never give up hope, we may not see it this year but maybe at the end of the year if the great horned rat. but personally I’m a but offended that gw didn’t change the name of the game system to age of the horned rat and started this year with a skaven vs. anything that isn’t a rat campaign book 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nikobot Posted April 6, 2020 Share Posted April 6, 2020 We are at the precipice of "what does GW do next?" in terms of battletomes... now everyone has an updated tome, though some are showing age, its a big Q if they continue to update tomes at the rate they have or do they slow down and if so, how much... I hope they continue dropping tomes, even if they arent updating models, they are improving the rules and moving things forward and i see it as a "relatively easy" option to create interest and keep everyone excited without the large overhead that new model lines create (I assume this, as this seems to be what the general discussion suggests) it wouldnt suprise me to see skaven 2.0 at the end of the year. when you compare skaven to the latest books like seraphon, you can see it was relatively vanilla as a ruleset and largely warscroll-driven, and whilst im very thankful for it, they didnt add in all the development bells'n'whistles that tomes have now. there were plenty of opportunities still unexplored to add depth to the tome without introducing new model ranges like : adding more units without new models e.g. doomwheel warlock hero variant (steam tank got 1), plague lord vs plague priest(bell plastic / metal skrolk), giant stormfiend (boneripper minus thanquol), assassin lord vs deathmaster (they had old metal assassin sculpts they shelved), variant clawlords (they had other sculpts they shelved e.g. spinetail, tretch), HPA variant possibly skryre (they have diff bits in the kit, like warpstone spike, metal claw arm), another grey seer variant (bell guy could go on foot / foot guy), im sure there are others... adding CAs to heroes, skaven really has minimal CA mechanic variation outside verminlords e.g. all clawlords have the same one (clawlord/brrod horror/skritch), grey seers (seriously? they lead skaven most of the time), arch-warlock, deathmaster, warlocks, plague priests etc. and this is really the way a lot of new armies are structured with heavy CA interactions clan sub-factions. an obvious exclusion and at a time where sub-factions were probably only starting to emerge. i can understand why it was left out at the time as skaven was one of the 1st big factions to appear and harder to manage/understand the variety it presented, and as sub-factions were just newish rulesets. I'm seeing a template for all the clans is needed. I can see it being different to the normal sub-factions too, more like the CoS one, but with greater restrictions. Narratively, the point of a clan sub-faction would be to focus on the clan, and not be as mixed as skaventide, so a focused approach to what warscrolls were allowed, and probably a more powerful set of sub-faction abilities to compensate for the limited range of army options e.g. skryre taking only skryre keyword units with perhaps 1 in 4 units being able to be from 1 allied clan in the greater skaventide range, kepping it relatively focused, getting some bebenfit of variety but not allowing you to simply cherry-pick the best units and at the same time getting a pretty good set of sub-faction abilities makes sense to me. It doesnt need to have the "set artefacts and traits" lie CoS does, and this continues to work very well with the separate trait/artefact lists available to skaventide. Verminlord spell lore (3), Verminlord traits (3), Pestilens prayers lore (3) Summoning in the form of Giant Rats and Rat Swarms makes sense like the old Warpseer CA. Using CPs for summoning seems in theme with skaven, possibly an effect of the screaming bell table as well, i wouldnt expect summon for any other units, but those 2 seem appropriate. Anyway, some ideas that seem to fit for me and allow for opportunites of development without the need for extra model ranges. In saying that, there are other tomes showing their age and could do with updates too like LoN, Nurgle, deepkin, Beasts, DoK even.. so who knows Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nikobot Posted April 6, 2020 Share Posted April 6, 2020 On 4/3/2020 at 12:38 AM, Gwendar said: There was a big rumor going around a month or two before the big FAQ that the Bridge would be changed to only allow 1 unit across at a time.. yet it never happened. My theory on that is that we'll get a new set\rebox of Endless Spells potentially.. or at least just an update. Could explain why the Balewind is no longer on the webstore. Bridge was very powerful in the same way it is for CoS, though it works better for them as you said with their insane shooting\magic combined with the double range on Bridge. TE\HH both tend to lean heavily into alpha-striking and it that fails they crumble.. Skaven have to be a bit more methodical and try to go for a T2\3 heavy hitter. I like that endless spells add tactical options to armies, it would be good to see other endless spells adjusted to see more use e.g. Laucheon was tipped to be popular until nerfed into the never-to-be-seen bin before starting. so in a way i dont want bridge changed.. its also like spell portal, now its only used by a few characters, mainly nagash for hand of dust... id like to see it changed so its providing utility/tactics to other armies other than nagash or CoS only. Agree that fiends arent as great as they once were, their balance in the current meta aside, they really are a bit of conundrum as unit for rules. They need changes, their shooting options are just auto-include if you are taking them and GWs policy on warscroll-to-match-kit-options leaves them difficult to write rules for that will see a unit with obvious loadouts. I hope they work out something that sees all loadouts see some value in future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riff_Raff_Rascal Posted April 6, 2020 Share Posted April 6, 2020 (edited) @Cosmicsheep I absolutely love your magnetizing job on that verminlord. I was a mad lad and I absolutely had to have all the options. With a combination of magnets and pinning parts I was able to do the impossible. No extra bits required. I wanted to show all of you folks two ambitious tools at your disposal for projects like this: magnet jewelry clasps and Blue Stuff putty. So you can see in the arm socket a cylinder which is the female part of one of the clasps. In the center is a magnet. The beauty of these clasps is two-fold: 1) unlike most magnet to magnet connections, torque at the joint due to weight of an arm or a weapon is opposed by the physical contact of the male and female cylinders that make up the clasp instead of the magnet. Magnets, you might notice, don't hold as well when an appendage of your model wants to "swing" downwards due to gravity. The magnets then take care of only the axial forces at the joint, in effect, make the magnetized part "snug" against the body. 2) It is so much easier to modify multiple parts that you wish to attach when the same male or female part can be attached to each one. You know it'll already fit into the corresponding part on the body. So a lot of you may wonder how on earth I changed the pose of the glaive on this guy. The answer is abusing green stuff and blue stuff from the same company (I think). Many of you familiar with the kit, know that doing multiple heads with the verminlord requires multiple of one "lynch-pin" piece that the kit only provides one of (because thats how GW rolls). Enter blue stuff. By heating it up, this thermoplastic material creates a mold around a part in seconds and I copied it a few more times using green stuff. In a similar fashion, I copied one end of the glaive (the full blade) and stuck the partial blade on the other end (the one halfway in the rock that I cut off) into the mold, right before I "stamped" a green stuff replica onto it. I did the very same thing with the hand that held the glaive up near the top and then stuck the middle portion of the weapon in the blue stuff right before I stamped a copy of the hand around it. Again this is all crazy nonsense and took an arch-warlocks penchant for experimentation to make happen but I was happy with the result. I will be adding something like this to my hobby blog soon if any of you are interested further. Also I can't stress enough how much easier it is to magnetize larger models with jewelry clasps. Most of you love strong as hell magnets to compensate, but check out the jewelry section of your local arts and crafts stores next time. Edited April 6, 2020 by Riff_Raff_Rascal 2 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmicsheep Posted April 6, 2020 Share Posted April 6, 2020 (edited) @Riff_Raff_Rascal Wow, that's some amazing engineering there. I totally get what you're saying about magnets and swing, I used a combo of smaller and larger magnets but will definitely check out those clasps. Oh, and I love that base too. How have you done that? Thanks 👍 Edited April 6, 2020 by Cosmicsheep Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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