AoS2 - Dankhold Troggoth Discussion

[PlasticCraic]

8 minutes ago, Eevika said:

As the owner of 15 Fellwaters and 0 Rockguts im slightly sad they arent at the same points level. Thinking I might get 6 Rockguts and try fun lists

I wouldn't be too sad mate, they're both really viable at their points imo.

Still both a lot stronger with Grot "Allies", but it's a good day for Fellwaters, not a bad one :-)

Edited July 9, 2019 by PlasticCraic

[Malakree]

11 hours ago, 5kaven5lave said:

Fellwaters better in 3s then we reckon now?

It comes down to the role of a unit of 3 vs a unit of 6 and how the two different types function at those values.

Rockguts are a hammer unit which goes though pretty much anything. In 3s their small number of attacks and 50/50 odds on the boulder makes them very unreliable even with RR1s. On the other hand the 5++ makes them far more durable against shouting and spell damage.

Fellwaters are a chaff clearing unit. They put out a high volume of attacks which has a considerably higher and more reliable damage output against 4+ saves with only basic rerolls. The big drawback however is a complete lack of resiliency against shooting and spell damage, so any sort of focus fire will melt them and force battleshock checks. In addition their shooting attack, while amazing, is so short range it's hard to get all of them in range even in a unit of 3.

Then we look at what we want from a unit of each size. At 6s we want a unit which will sit at the core of the army, get buffed by the troggboss and rip apart the core of an opponents army. Due to the low bravery of troggs we also need them to not just melt from focused fire forcing nasty battleshock checks which make even brutes look stable. For this role rockguts are clearly far superior, their ability to stand against focus fire is far superior and they will tear through everything and anything. Not to mention how much of a massive threat to support characters the boulder throw is.

When we look at a unit of 3 we want them to be go down flanks and threaten poorly defended objectives or fight against none core parts of an army. In this case the unit needs to be semi-autonomous and able to function without walls of buffs but they don't need to be that survivable against ranged threats because the worst battleshock which can be inflicted is -2. In 3s at 160 (150 now) there is very little which can fight them on an even footing with fellwaters, -1 to hit in combat with the regen allows them to grind hard against units which don't have large spike damage. Equally their own damage output goes up drastically in a sustained combat, even 2 fellwaters puts out 8 strong attacks and if they start the turn in combat you're going to be able to use all your pukes.

The end result is that in 3s, for both reliability and usage fellwaters are superior. At 6+ though rockguts really come into their own as they gain reliability.

So yeah, fellwaters in 3s, rockguts in 6+.

[5kaven5lave]

Thanks @Malakree!!

So this is what was running a few months back and it’s now 100 points cheaper. Any ideas on what I could add guys?

Boss

Hag

Fungoid

6x Rockguts

2x3 Fellwaters

60 Stabbas

Cauldron

Troggherd

I guess options are: another Fungoid, a Webspinner or a Loonboss to buff the Stabbas and Scuttletide. Unless I’m missing something?

Cheers. 

Edited July 9, 2019 by 5kaven5lave

[Eevika]

10 minutes ago, PlasticCraic said:

I wouldn't be too sad mate, they're both really viable at their points imo.

Still both a lot stronger with Grot "Allies", but it's a good day for Fellwaters, not a bad one 🙂

Yeah I always have that 60 grot block in my army. Holds objectives very well while troggs go smashing around

[Eevika]

Maybe a list like this 

Troggboss 270

• Loonskin

Webspinner on Arac 280
Fungoid 90

• Hand of Gork

MadCap 80 

• Mommet
• Great Green spite

60 Stabbas 360
6 Rockguts 280
3 Fellwater 150
3 Fellwater 150
3 Fellwater 150
3 Fellwater 150

Arachnocauldron 40

Exactly 2k 

 

[Malakree]

46 minutes ago, 5kaven5lave said:

Boss

Hag

Fungoid

6x Rockguts

2x3 Fellwaters

60 Stabbas

Cauldron

Troggherd

Drop the troggherd to gain 180, add another 6 rockguts for 280.

[5kaven5lave]

Massive thanks guys. Still really unsure about dropping the Batallion but I’ll give some alternatives a try!!

[Malakree]

30 minutes ago, 5kaven5lave said:

Massive thanks guys. Still really unsure about dropping the Batallion but I’ll give some alternatives a try!!

The issue with the battalion is that it's damn expensive for a very minor buff which scales off the number of Troggs in the battalion. So by taking it you are reducing it's value as it drops the number of Troggs in it. I worked out that to be the same value, for melee only, as 3 Fellwaters it needs to have 21 Fellwaters in the battalion, 42 Rockguts or a ridiculous amount of Dankholds.

Obviously it gives the reduced drops, CP and artefact. The change would take you from 4 Drops up to 8 Drops but give you a massive increase in Board Presence.

[blubearbare]

Is the Troggoth Hag worth her points. I like her as a model and to use but for 380 points I could get more troggoths in instead. Does she win games?

[Calebexnihilo]

14 minutes ago, blubearbare said:

Is the Troggoth Hag worth her points. I like her as a model and to use but for 380 points I could get more troggoths in instead. Does she win games?

She's fantastic for objectives that require heros.

I like to put Gryphfeather or Miasmic Blade on her, Hand of Gork her fwd or so she can flank a key unit, cast her spell and then vomit. She will be -3 to hit!

She's expensive but can tank pretty well.

 

[PlasticCraic]

4 hours ago, blubearbare said:

Is the Troggoth Hag worth her points. I like her as a model and to use but for 380 points I could get more troggoths in instead. Does she win games?

Yeah she's won games for me before.  Hand of Gork straight into vomit and spell range is awesome.

[5kaven5lave]

Thanks for all the advice above, I will almost certainly end up just putting some more Rockguts in but wanna try this first. Will be fun to see where it lands on the genius / idiocy continuum:

Allegiance: Gloomspite Gitz
Mortal Realm: Ghur

Leaders
Dankhold Troggboss (270)
- General
- Trait: Loonskin  
Troggoth Hag (380)
- Artefact: Gryph-feather Charm 
Fungoid Cave-Shaman (90)
- Lore of the Moonclans: The Hand of Gork
Madcap Shaman (80)
- Lore of the Moonclans: Itchy Nuisance
Webspinner Shaman (80)
- Lore of the Spiderfangs: Sneaky Distraction
Loonboss (70)

Battleline
3 x Fellwater Troggoths (150)
3 x Fellwater Troggoths (150)
6 x Rockgut Troggoths (280)
60 x Stabbas (360)
- Pokin Spears & Moon Shields

Endless Spells / Terrain
Scrapskuttle's Arachnacauldron (40)
Purple Sun of Shyish (50)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 153
 

So basically it revolves around a Troggboss / Fungoid CP farm for rerolling 1s, negating battleshock and using CAs but also stacking so many minuses to hit that target priority becomes difficult for my opponent. With a good magic phase the majority of the army could be at least a flat -1 (Madcap with Fellwaters, Webspinner with Rockguts) and the alternative would be the Stabbas buffed with I’m Da Boss. It’s got some movement shenanigans and the knowledge that one of the little wizards could pop out a Purple Sun might just make them think twice (I could swap it for Shards for extra -1 to hit stuff).

It obviously isn’t competitive but I’m excited to see how it plays. 

[blubearbare]

Thanks for all the advice above, I will almost certainly end up just putting some more Rockguts in but wanna try this first. Will be fun to see where it lands on the genius / idiocy continuum:

Allegiance: Gloomspite Gitz
Mortal Realm: Ghur

Leaders
Dankhold Troggboss (270)
- General
- Trait: Loonskin  
Troggoth Hag (380)
- Artefact: Gryph-feather Charm 
Fungoid Cave-Shaman (90)
- Lore of the Moonclans: The Hand of Gork
Madcap Shaman (80)
- Lore of the Moonclans: Itchy Nuisance
Webspinner Shaman (80)
- Lore of the Spiderfangs: Sneaky Distraction
Loonboss (70)

Battleline
3 x Fellwater Troggoths (150)
3 x Fellwater Troggoths (150)
6 x Rockgut Troggoths (280)
60 x Stabbas (360)
- Pokin Spears & Moon Shields

Endless Spells / Terrain
Scrapskuttle's Arachnacauldron (40)
Purple Sun of Shyish (50)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 153
 

So basically it revolves around a Troggboss / Fungoid CP farm for rerolling 1s, negating battleshock and using CAs but also stacking so many minuses to hit that target priority becomes difficult for my opponent. With a good magic phase the majority of the army could be at least a flat -1 (Madcap with Fellwaters, Webspinner with Rockguts) and the alternative would be the Stabbas buffed with I’m Da Boss. It’s got some movement shenanigans and the knowledge that one of the little wizards could pop out a Purple Sun might just make them think twice (I could swap it for Shards for extra -1 to hit stuff).

It obviously isn’t competitive but I’m excited to see how it plays. 

 

At this point you could drop both the endless spells (with all ur magic don't think u need the cauldron anymore or the purple sun since they get one spell each and ur shooting for the -1 to hit) and the loonboss and add another fellwater trolls or rockgut but that's up to you

[blubearbare]

12 hours ago, 5kaven5lave said:

Thanks for all the advice above, I will almost certainly end up just putting some more Rockguts in but wanna try this first. Will be fun to see where it lands on the genius / idiocy continuum:

Allegiance: Gloomspite Gitz
Mortal Realm: Ghur

Leaders
Dankhold Troggboss (270)
- General
- Trait: Loonskin  
Troggoth Hag (380)
- Artefact: Gryph-feather Charm 
Fungoid Cave-Shaman (90)
- Lore of the Moonclans: The Hand of Gork
Madcap Shaman (80)
- Lore of the Moonclans: Itchy Nuisance
Webspinner Shaman (80)
- Lore of the Spiderfangs: Sneaky Distraction
Loonboss (70)

Battleline
3 x Fellwater Troggoths (150)
3 x Fellwater Troggoths (150)
6 x Rockgut Troggoths (280)
60 x Stabbas (360)
- Pokin Spears & Moon Shields

Endless Spells / Terrain
Scrapskuttle's Arachnacauldron (40)
Purple Sun of Shyish (50)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 153
 

So basically it revolves around a Troggboss / Fungoid CP farm for rerolling 1s, negating battleshock and using CAs but also stacking so many minuses to hit that target priority becomes difficult for my opponent. With a good magic phase the majority of the army could be at least a flat -1 (Madcap with Fellwaters, Webspinner with Rockguts) and the alternative would be the Stabbas buffed with I’m Da Boss. It’s got some movement shenanigans and the knowledge that one of the little wizards could pop out a Purple Sun might just make them think twice (I could swap it for Shards for extra -1 to hit stuff).

It obviously isn’t competitive but I’m excited to see how it plays.  

Instead of the endless spells drop the cauldron and purple sun ( u don't need them since ur only shooting for the -1 to hits anyways) and the loonboss and add another unit of fellwater or rockgut trolls for more presence on the board

[Requete]

Two questions guys:

1. I don't see Skragrott in many lists here. I know that he can't be general for a Troggoth army, but he's still pretty amazing right? Carries a hand cannon, casts an amazing spell, pretty solid, etc. Does he not seem worth the points as a good casting hero?

2.  Do you think 5 fanatics for the block of 60 stabbas is redundant given how much punch we already have in the army? Probably not worth as much as 3 Rockguts?

 

[mikethefish]

Some people use Skraggrot in a non-general capacity, but without the extra CP's, I personally don't see the point

[Seanwise23]

I have big summer 2k in 2 weeks  and this is the list I'm running. I kept it as troggy as possible. 

Troggboss: Went with a tank build, too many games of "if I had one extra wound", plus with two fungoids I have a decent CP generation.

2x Fungoids: no explanation, amazing budget casters.

Mollog: I have had some trouble with hero base senarios, so after the points dropped I was able to add him without changing my pre FAQ list at all. With him, he will be another tough hero to knock off of objectives and now I can keep most of my Troggs in a +1 bravery bubble.

Fel and Rockguts: the main meat a potatoes.  The 3x3 and 3x6 is nice, I can run 6 rockguts with a 3 man felwater support, plus I have a very versatile setup with these guys.

Mushroom: Trogg's answer to hordes, especially if you get one to stick at the end of a turn two, that is two pops before your opponent can answer it. 

 

Edited July 15, 2019 by Seanwise23

[Knight Scáthach of Fimm]

56 minutes ago, Seanwise23 said:

I have big summer 2k in 2 weeks  and this is the list I'm running. I kept it as troggy as possible. 

Troggboss: Went with a tank build, too many games of "if I had one extra wound", plus with two fungoids I have a decent CP generation.

2x Fungoids: no explanation, amazing budget casters.

Mollog: I have had some trouble with hero base senarios, so after the points dropped I was able to add him without changing my pre FAQ list at all. With him, he will be another tough hero to knock off of objectives and now I can keep most of my Troggs in a +1 bravery bubble.

Fel and Rockguts: the main meat a potatoes.  The 3x3 and 3x6 is nice, I can run 6 rockguts with a 3 man felwater support, plus I have a very versatile setup with these guys.

Mushroom: Trogg's answer to hordes, especially if you get one to stick at the end of a turn two, that is two pops before your opponent can answer it. 

 

I know the intention was not to, but in a tournament, I can't help but think 20 grots will come in handy since Trolls are too expensive to have camping home objectives. If anything, I'd say drop Mollog and get 20 grots to play it safe and Scrapskuttles to make your magic phase stronger.

[Seanwise23]

7 minutes ago, Knight Scáthach of Fimm said:

I know the intention was not to, but in a tournament, I can't help but think 20 grots will come in handy since Trolls are too expensive to have camping home objectives. If anything, I'd say drop Mollog and get 20 grots to play it safe and Scrapskuttles to make your magic phase stronger.

I ran a similar list and held my own at Adepticon.  I really haven't had any issues with objectives. A unit or two of fel waters or a couple of fungoids do well at holding objectives. Most of the time my opponent has to fight a wall of troggs to get to my objectives. Also, if I dont need my troggs on gaurd duty I just Hand of Gorked them somewhere else. My magic is just fine with the two fungoids and they are not big enough bodies for scrapskuttlers. I don't want to feed wounds to troggs from the cauldron and if I can pass it to enemies that means my shaman is in a bad spot. Taking out mollog means I'm going into hero senarios with a dankhold and two fungoids, which means 8 wounds later I have only one hero to hold an objective, plus if I'm spread out about half of my army is missing out on a +1 bravery buff which troggs need. I like playing by unconventional means, thus 29 troggs. Also, the main point for AoS to me is to roll some dice and drink some beer,  if I wanted to really play to win I can play DoK, Nagash, ect. Last I don't feel like painting 20 grots less than two weeks out haha.

[blubearbare]

So which out of the three lists is the strongest. I am debating whether to have 2 units of 6X rockguts or 4 3X fellwater. Also with the previous comments Mollog or Hag

Allegiance: Gloomspite Gitz

Leaders
Dankhold Troggboss (270)
- General
- Trait: Tough as Rocks
- Artefact: Glowy Howzit
Troggoth Hag (380)
Webspinner Shaman (80)

Battleline
6 x Rockgut Troggoths (280)
3 x Fellwater Troggoths (150)
3 x Fellwater Troggoths (150)
3 x Fellwater Troggoths (150)
3 x Fellwater Troggoths (150)

Units
18 x Squig Herd (210)
12 x Squig Herd (140)

Endless Spells / Terrain
Scrapskuttle's Arachnacauldron (40)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 164

or

Allegiance: Gloomspite Gitz

Leaders
Dankhold Troggboss (270)
- General
- Trait: Tough as Rocks
- Artefact: Glowy Howzit
Troggoth Hag (380)
Fungoid Cave-Shaman (90)
- Lore of the Moonclans: Itchy Nuisance

Battleline
6 x Rockgut Troggoths (280)
6 x Rockgut Troggoths (280)
3 x Fellwater Troggoths (150)
3 x Fellwater Troggoths (150)

Units
18 x Squig Herd (210)
12 x Squig Herd (140)

Endless Spells / Terrain
Scrapskuttle's Arachnacauldron (40)

Total: 1990 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 164

or ****** hag and go

Allegiance: Gloomspite Gitz

Leaders
Dankhold Troggboss (270)
- General
- Trait: Tough as Rocks
- Artefact: Glowy Howzit
Mollog (170)
Fungoid Cave-Shaman (90)
- Lore of the Moonclans: The Hand of Gork
Madcap Shaman (80)
- Artefact: Moonface Mommet
- Lore of the Moonclans: Itchy Nuisance

Battleline
6 x Rockgut Troggoths (280)
6 x Rockgut Troggoths (280)
3 x Fellwater Troggoths (150)
3 x Fellwater Troggoths (150)

Units
18 x Squig Herd (210)
12 x Squig Herd (140)

Battalions
Troggherd (180)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 160

 

[Calebexnihilo]

I like #2

[blubearbare]

On 7/19/2019 at 1:26 PM, Calebexnihilo said:

I like #2 

but will list #2 stand up against skaven and nighhaunt?

Edited July 21, 2019 by blubearbare

[Calebexnihilo]

On 7/21/2019 at 12:51 PM, blubearbare said:

but will list #2 stand up against skaven and nighhaunt?

Not much will stand up against an optimized Skaven list.

Nighthaunt is a good counter to Trolls. Since they ignore rend, it makes our hard hitting attacks pretty weak.

Regardless, Trolls are fun!

[Sauriv]

On 7/21/2019 at 7:51 PM, blubearbare said:

but will list #2 stand up against skaven and nighhaunt?

Mortal wounds are really hurting nighthaunt and their heroes has a low wound count. Use rockguts to take out the heroes and fellwater to debuff the other units. Many of the ghosts hit on 4+ so debuff them and remember that modifiers are applied after rerolls. 

 

[Malakithe]

23 hours ago, Sauriv said:

Mortal wounds are really hurting nighthaunt and their heroes has a low wound count. Use rockguts to take out the heroes and fellwater to debuff the other units. Many of the ghosts hit on 4+ so debuff them and remember that modifiers are applied after rerolls. 

 

I have this visual in my head of Rockguts throwing giant rocks in a high arc over a battlefield. The view pans to a KoS as he looks up just in time to see the rock coming down on him and he says "Oh ****" then gets crushed all looney toons style. Hard to imagine how a solid rock kills a ghost but thats fantasy for you lol