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Knight Scáthach of Fimm

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About Knight Scáthach of Fimm

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  1. Dwarf Warriors likely went up by 10, not because they are used in Dispossessed, but because they get used in Order soup armies a lot. Why? They are efficient Battleline units, as they do not require support from the relevant heroes in order to hold objectives. They are basically the best part of a battleline tax, as soup lists often capitalize on the best of the Order units. In Dispossessed allegiance, they are overshadowed by Longbeards, but because Mixed Order is more relevant to the game right now, I am certain GW decided to increase their points; just like how Skinks were changed. As it stands, my brother's Dispossessed list had 100 points knocked off it so it worked out well for him. This is including 2 cannons. As for the Freeguild Griffon, a 20 point increase is nothing for such an efficient monster. He's easily worth 300, yet alone 280. My list freed up 50 points even with the increase to the Griffon as the cavalry and greatswords came down. It was 1990 so I can even make a unit of 20 greatswords 30 now. Edit: 40 point Witch Hunter is actually relevant, at least to a Freeguild player. Before it was him or a command point, assuming you have that left. Now, if you have 40 left over I'd take it purely to be a beacon for command abilities. One of my lists adds up just right for this. He also fits into allies; the common ones being a Luminark and Battlemage being 360 combined.
  2. If Sneaky Snufflers worked on all, they would be sold out for the next 6 months. Unfortunately it's too late for that. And yes, when balance adjustments to the game are made, it swings both ways. So if Troggboss only comes down to 280, but all the greater daemons go to 380+ then suddenly he doesn't sound too bad. It's the comparison game again. It's usually the relatively cheap flying ballistic missile monsters that are a problem, and they make other units look bad by comparison because they do everything the meta and ruleset wants. Especially in the case of Ghoul Kings on Terrorgheist that literally have everything; its only weakness is that there isn't 2 of them in a unit...
  3. The closest things to regular trolls are Fimir, so they would have to drop lower to 120 for Trolls to come down to 140, but they are very good at 160 regardless. I wouldn't say that GuO, Keepers or LoC are in the same points bracket if it came down to 260/280, they're all far more expensive than a Dankboss at this adjusted rate. There's a whole Fungoid/ Madcap or more to squeeze in there if that's the case, in post-GHB list, factoring in other changes. I mean sure, if a Dankboss came down to 220 he'd be almost an auto include if you have at least 6 Rockguts in a standard list, hell if he has Loonskin I can see him replacing Skragrott in some instances. If it makes a Troggherd army rise in the competitive ladder then so much the better. Knowing GW, I highly doubt it. I think his myriad of small abilities and little leg-ups over other models will keep him no lower than 260. The problem with some of your examples is that they're all highly focused units while the Dankboss is a jack of many trades. I think that if you want to make a Dankboss work for you (at 300), one needs to be conscious of the rest of the army. I see far too many people complain that the Dankboss is a points sink when they're simultaneously running a Hag and Troggherd; sometimes even Mollog in the worst of cases. I'd rather take a Madcap with Moonface Mommet and a Dankboss than a Hag. And it's not just because of the sagginess. So to conclude, he's not a stab in the foot.
  4. I'd argue that, while GW say pitched battle profiles are competitive intended, it's really just used so that we can have balanced games in the first place. Most people play with pitched battles, but most people are not tournament go'ers. 220 is pushing it imo; I'd rather see Troggherd go down and so Dankboss' value go up, than Dankboss go down by 80 points (I can't think of any cases where such a drop has happened, since it's not like he was written terribly in the first place). This is the more likely scenario in my mind, in order to get more worth out of a Dankboss. Battalion at 120, Dankboss at 260. Those are very much workable numbers. At 220 that would be extremely good, almost too good imo when you consider Loonskin. That's the range of many normal non-hero monsters, yet alone the stuff a Dankboss gets on top of that. And not only that, but at 220 you'd invalidate Mollog and normal Dankholds, as they won't be dropping all that much unless Gargants and normal trolls also go down, which is unlikely. If a Dankhold was 180, just by being a hero the boss will always be taken over it. I think a safer bet, and one that is in line with what appears standard for a balance adjustment, a drop to 260-280 is more likely.
  5. In your opinion maybe, but when you compare points cost for things like Wychelves and Flesh Eater combos to most other units, that is most certainly broken; they are aberrations by comparison. I'm not calling Bloodthirsters broken, I'm calling standard infantry that when buffed have a damage potential of 240 broken or dragons that can do a dance and a backflip before you can blink broken. People see the best something can be and want that, disregarding what they already have. Say that to Frodo Don't make it about being competitive when I established we're talking about an army of Trolls. In normal AoS that is outside of the tournament scene, a Dankboss is a balanced unit. A Ghoul King on Terrorgheist in-allegiance is not. This is not AoS2 Competitive Dankold Troggoth Discussion so please don't keep bringing everything down to being competitive. If you see everything through a meta lens then you're going to miss the way non-tournament players play and how they define things. Please remember that not everyone here is talking about a tournament scene. Most AoS players do not play competitively. You define units competitively, while most people just want to play a good balanced game and have fun, while feeling like what they field is satisfying to use. I see a Dankboss as balanced because, much to people's complaints, he actually comes with a weakness, while also being able to perform to a decent standard (shocking I know). This, in my eyes, is a balanced unit. He may be tipping the scales at 300, but he's most certainly not a stab in the foot; that is what I'd define an underpowered unit as, something that harms you to take it over an alternative. Again, if you want to talk competitive, then you're in the wrong thread to begin with because everything is stacked against a hyper-elite army in AoS. It's not the Dankboss' fault, it's the game system that favors massed hoards and flying beatsticks. Furthermore, on the note of a buffbot: that's what almost all foot heroes do, and a Dankboss is a foot hero. Sure, he has the combined cost of a few of them, but who else can generate 1 extra command point a turn without rolling for most of the game, or have a high concentration of power on such a durable base? Mega boss example is pretty bad as we're going back to the damage route again which, as I will say again, is not what you should be playing him as; a Dankboss can and will hold his own if he has to. Most people would shriek at the thought of a 300 point backline hero who is a charge deterrent and a buff machine, and I say shriek away because that's what he is. I would however like to see him come down 20-40 points; not because it benefits me precisely, but so people can finally stop bitching. But let's be real. The complaints will never stop.
  6. I doubt any Dankholds are going down by much due to the way GW calculate points. Dankboss has so many rules and advantages over other models, even though people seem to only see his damage. The lack of a degrading statline, the ability to take cover and look out sir are all things people seem to overlook and I imagine it's why he's so expensive. He's also on a 60mm base with a monster statline which may also be taken into account, his power per square inch is huge by contrast. He's the smallest biggest foot hero in the game and that counts for a lot. d6 damage and 6" move though oh no! (even though you can literally fix these). He's a rock solid lynchpin for command abilities and cp generation, he's not meant to be a Ghoul King on Terrorgheist. In a book where most things are relatively cheap it balances itself out; taken in a vacuum he will always look overcosted. If you're taking Troggherd and a Hag don't be surprised when the army's looking a little light on the table. Or maybe he's just a balanced model in a game where *Insert flying monster* is king. Furthermore, in a game where magic is critical to many armies, the ability to ignore spells probably is a solid amount of his cost already. But then people will always complain if it doesn't fly and hit like a ballistic missile. I mean people think the Mangler Boss is overcosted and it does that too! Dankboss will be between 260 and 280 at best, any more is wishful thinking. Probably 280. Calling him a 220 model is ludicrous; just because, unlike many models, he hasn't got a hyper-specialized role doesn't automatically make him bad. Want to make him efficient? Just do what most people do and generate 50 points every turn with Loonskin. I find it hard to call that bad. Normal Dankhold going anywhere close to 160 invalidates the already mostly invalid Gargant, although if we ignore him I'd say 180 is good. I can't imagine normal trolls going down at all as they are solid units in most regards. But they're not wychelves so they're automatically overcosted by some people's reckoning... Or maybe it's because people like to compare the balanced units to the broken ones and call the former bad? The Dankboss is fine, just don't overload on other expensive units. He's one of those models that on turns 4 and 5 you'll be glad you have because he's still alive and can work at full capacity regardless of what's going on. And if you lose such an easy to protect model then I can't help you. You can make the point that he's not great for tournaments. Sure. But here we are in a thread talking about an army of Trolls, so we've already moved past that point.
  7. I'd always bring at least 1 unit of 20 grots. The thing with a Troll army is very careful positioning as losing even one troll will be felt. If you can get the positioning right and pick your fights (Itchy Nuisance helps a ton here) then Trolls will roll over almost anything they get close to. The low model count is an issue, but then if you're the last man standing then numbers are irrelevant. Trolls are very good at being last man standing. Also, because every attack counts (at least with Rockguts) I bring Moonface Mommet to rule out my enemy making any saves (provided it's 4+) as they can and will roll a 6 or two.
  8. I was going to say; it's kinda the workhorse. On another note, if the merc company retains the Freepeoples keyword I can see them having some utility as as far as I'm concerned, it can be very difficult for Freeguild to get behind an enemy line without a Griffon. I also rarely ever spend my first command point in a battle so.
  9. If the Freeguild mercs still have the same keywords + mercenary then I'd actually consider taking them alongside my normal Freeguild as the outflank has uses that Freeguild don't have access to atm.
  10. Despite their simplicity, a Troggherd army will take a lot of skill to do well with; in fact I'd argue it's because of this that they're hard to play with. Not to say they can't be strong, as anything getting hit by 6 buffed Rockguts will die or be left crippled on the floor. After all, this is Age of Sigmar where you can literally take any army and do well with it so long as you know it extremely well; the ruleset allows for underdogs to take out the meta armies, and often. Skill is a huge factor most of the time, although the only thing I can think of that doesn't count is Gristlegore as that's rather brain-dead imo. Except vs Nighthaunt I just don't see how Trolls can fight that as they're the perfect counter. I see too many battle reports where the Troll player has no idea what they're doing and just throws minimum unit sizes into the midfield and doesn't protect their boss. They're also 100% trolls which I think is a mistake; I think you need to at least have 20 stabbas and a Fungoid. If you know what you're doing, Trolls will do just fine. In fact twice now they've ended the game on turn 3, which my Freeguild can't do.
  11. You make it seem like I'm building a tournament list. I have a painted Dankhold and it's not exactly a stab in the foot to take one, after all it's not a giant. I like their ability to pick out certain models from groups, or prevent stringing models out. He also fits in the Troggherd.
  12. My list that I played with the other day. Smashed Slaves to Darkness twice before the 3rd turn was up. -Dankhold Troggboss: 300 General Tough as Rocks +2 wounds Blade of Hammerhal-Ghyra +1 attack on fist. (may change) -Madcap Shaman: 80 Itchy Nuisance/ Moonface Mommet -Fungoid Cave Shaman: 90 Hand of Gork -6 Rockgut Troggoths: 320 -6 Rockgut Troggoths: 320 -3 Fellwater Troggoths: 160 -3 Fellwater Troggoths: 160 -20 Stabbas: 130 -Dankhold Troggoth: 220 -Troggherd: 180 When GHB drops I'm certain i can get Skrapskuttle's in there too and probably more. Usually I find games get split down the flanks so the Dankhold's bravery buff actually came into play as half the army had to split from the boss. I found him a nice support model, and a big tanky threat when in cover. Paired well with the fellwaters and grots.
  13. Played 2 games of Troggherd vs Slaves to Darkness. Dankboss and 6 Rockguts w/ Itchy Nuisance and Moonface Mommet cleared 10 chaos knights like a breeze. I think Moonface is important, because every attack that gets saved is a big deal, so out right denying the chance to save I found was very important, as even if they're saving on 6s it can and will happen. I don't think -3 rend is overkill when it comes to such important attacks. I ran 2 units of 6 Rockguts flanked by a Dankboss; their guaranteed boulder throws are very useful for hitting backline heroes. I also had 2 units of 3 Fellwaters, but they're better at working independently so handled the other side of the board with the goblins. I was running Tough as Rocks, as while Loonskin is great, I felt I always had enough command points. Also my ethos is always; healing is cool but it's worthless if you don't reach your hero phase, so the extra 2 wounds I prefer. He also had +1 attack on fist as the ability to selectively remove elite models is great. The Dankboss was the biggest linchpin so I think the extra wounds to keep him around was justified. Furthermore, I found that he was incredibly easy to protect from charges, particularly against cavalry, as he has so many wounds on a relatively tiny base; his power per square inch is likely the highest in the game. I need to remember that Troggherd bonuses exist. My opponent had to concede on turn 3 both games as the trolls wasted everything they touched. I find them great fun and easy to maneuver, although I'll need to play them against newer armies. Saying that, this is a Troggherd so I reckon the power levels were very close between the two armies. This was against 20 knights, 30 warriors and 2 manticores so there was plenty of meat in the force.
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