AoS 2 - Daughters of Khaine Discussion

[Boar]

1 hour ago, stratigo said:

The teleport wars!

I suppose there is not insignificant chance that new book will push it to movement phase, where other recent teleports lie.

[DJMoose]

8 hours ago, Boar said:

I suppose there is not insignificant chance that new book will push it to movement phase, where other recent teleports lie.

Imagine if Khaelibron did this. You could buff a unit and then teleport them.

Maybe even without the within 3" of the enemy like the Shadowstalkers .

Although part of me could see it staying as it is, just a longer wholly within range.

[Lucentia]

They could move it to a CA too potentially, it always felt more like a CA than a command trait to me (though granted that was before command points were a thing, I'm not sure if being able to teleport multiple units in one turn would outweigh the resource cost these days.)

Anyone got any fun wishlists for updated temple traits?  Moving Kraith to a 5+ roll would work wonders I think, maybe with a CA to turn it into a 2+ for one unit?   I wonder if you could make Hagg Nar less of a must have by changing the command trait to a re-roll fanatical faith aura and then having a faction specific CA/prayer to boost one unit's FF by +1?

In any case I think it's almost a certainty that all the temples will have forced artefacts and traits this time around, rather than the half and half we have right now.

[Graywater]

Thinking on the new battletome, I'd honestly be very happy with losing the fanatical faith save in favor of more offensive power. Daughters are way too tanky for mostly naked warrior women. At least take away any ability to reroll or make it better.

For as much as the faction is portrayed as a zealously religious faction, I'm shocked that there is no temple that grants bonuses to prayers. Maybe an innate +1 or reroll for prayers? Why not change hagg nar to lose the egregious +1 to fanatical faith rolls in favor of some actual prayer support? Just spitballing here. 

Oh, and the ironscale should be unlocking blood sisters as battleline. Im ok with the stalkers not being battleline. Id like to see daughters keep their melee focused playstyle. 

Edited February 2, 2021 by Graywater

[Chumphammer]

I would be happy to lose haggnarr 5++ if we were faster and hit harder

DOK should be the main glass cannon army

Increased movement ability not just run and charge on sos/WE

Increased damage output. We should be one of the most feared close combat armies not just relying on Mindrazor

 

[DJMoose]

4 hours ago, Chumphammer said:

I would be happy to lose haggnarr 5++ if we were faster and hit harder

DOK should be the main glass cannon army

Increased movement ability not just run and charge on sos/WE

Increased damage output. We should be one of the most feared close combat armies not just relying on Mindrazor

 

The Ironscale certainly has helped the mobility of snakes by also letting them run 2d6 and charge.

But yes to more damage output. Without Mindrazor we definitely have trouble against certain armies. The lack of Mindrazor against armies with high bravery is always noticeable. Personally I do not mind a little bit of durability because DoK are already made of wet paper. That said I would rather have a bunch of crazed berserker chicks do more damage instead instead of the fanatical faith save. Or maybe have the ability to fight after they die like Fyreslayers. Unfortunately the answer to much of this speculation is "we shall see."

[Graywater]

13 hours ago, DJMoose said:

The Ironscale certainly has helped the mobility of snakes by also letting them run 2d6 and charge.

But yes to more damage output. Without Mindrazor we definitely have trouble against certain armies. The lack of Mindrazor against armies with high bravery is always noticeable. Personally I do not mind a little bit of durability because DoK are already made of wet paper. That said I would rather have a bunch of crazed berserker chicks do more damage instead instead of the fanatical faith save. Or maybe have the ability to fight after they die like Fyreslayers. Unfortunately the answer to much of this speculation is "we shall see."

A little durability is fine. But when I'm getting sisters of slaughter on a 3+ save in combat, with a 5+ dpr rerolling, thats TOO much resilience. It's a problem when daughters of khaine are outgrinding nurgle and death armies. 

[Chumphammer]

17 minutes ago, Graywater said:

A little durability is fine. But when I'm getting sisters of slaughter on a 3+ save in combat, with a 5+ dpr rerolling, thats TOO much resilience. It's a problem when daughters of khaine are outgrinding nurgle and death armies. 

3+ AS?

[Graywater]

8 minutes ago, Chumphammer said:

3+ AS?

6+ base. +1 for buckler, +1 for bloodshield, +1 for cover. I was playing at 1970 or 1980 for a lot of last year too for that chance at the reroll saves triumph. It's taken so many people off guard that think theyre going to alpha off my big unit turn 1, and they kill just a couple. 

[Chumphammer]

5 minutes ago, Graywater said:

6+ base. +1 for buckler, +1 for bloodshield, +1 for cover. I was playing at 1970 or 1980 for a lot of last year too for that chance at the reroll saves triumph. It's taken so many people off guard that think theyre going to alpha off my big unit turn 1, and they kill just a couple. 

I mean yeah that works for around 10 models and if you havent charged. 30 is a bit different to have them all in the terrain (unless you have ridiculous sized terrain) 

[Graywater]

6 minutes ago, Chumphammer said:

I mean yeah that works for around 10 models and if you havent charged. 30 is a bit different to have them all in the terrain (unless you have ridiculous sized terrain) 

There's usually a piece of terrain I can fit 30 25mm bases on somewhere on the board. Most tournaments I've been to have been pretty generous with terrain, either with 1 large piece in the middle (my favorite) or 1 middle size in each deployment. 25mm bases can be squeezed together to be very compact.

[DJMoose]

Considering how close we are to St. Valentine's Day and the rumor that the new Battletome will release close to the same time as the Slaanesh Battletome, do you think GW will pull some Daughters of Khaine Valentine's Day shenanigans?  I think it would be hilarious if they did something like this again.

 

[Chumphammer]

43 minutes ago, DJMoose said:

Considering how close we are to St. Valentine's Day and the rumor that the new Battletome will release close to the same time as the Slaanesh Battletome, do you think GW will pull some Daughters of Khaine Valentine's Day shenanigans?  I think it would be hilarious if they did something like this again.

 

lol maybe, makes sense for timeline of releases I think 

[UnholyRevenant]

How does the command point ability of changing a run roll to 6 work with the Ironscale CA, or does it not work at all?

[DJMoose]

24 minutes ago, UnholyRevenant said:

How does the command point ability of changing a run roll to 6 work with the Ironscale CA, or does it not work at all?

I imagine it would still work.  At The Double is used after you make a run roll for a friendly unit within range and then the run roll is treated as being a 6.  The Ironscale CA allows a Melusai unit within range to roll 2d6 instead of d6 when you make a run roll for that unit.  While it would suck to have to use 2 command points to do this, I do not see why it would not work.  Don't forget we still have the reroll 1s for runs for Quickening Bloodlust as well.

Edited February 4, 2021 by DJMoose

[Lileath]

1 hour ago, UnholyRevenant said:

How does the command point ability of changing a run roll to 6 work with the Ironscale CA, or does it not work at all?

 Q: How does the At the Double command ability interact with an ability that allows you to roll 2D6 when a unit runs (such as the Seekers of Slaanesh Quicksilver Speed ability)?

A: No dice are rolled, and the run roll is treated as being 6.

 

FAQs  core rules 😉

[UnholyRevenant]

So it would be an 8inch move. Then the ironscale CA ability, say you didn't roll a very high and used a command point, this would become 12. So now we are at a 20inch move, plus being able to charge. Right?

[swarmofseals]

7 minutes ago, UnholyRevenant said:

So it would be an 8inch move. Then the ironscale CA ability, say you didn't roll a very high and used a command point, this would become 12. So now we are at a 20inch move, plus being able to charge. Right?

No, it would be a 6 inch run not a 12. "The run roll" refers to the entire roll, not each die individually. So if you roll <6 you can still use at the double to make it a 6. But you can't make it an auto 12.

[KK in HK]

11 minutes ago, UnholyRevenant said:

So it would be an 8inch move. Then the ironscale CA ability, say you didn't roll a very high and used a command point, this would become 12. So now we are at a 20inch move, plus being able to charge. Right?

I don’t think so. The run roll result is treated as 6, regardless of the number of dice you have rolled.

[UnholyRevenant]

Okay I'm lost. So is the Ironscale CA 2d6 run, so both added together, or is it 2d6 keeping the highest. If its 2d6 added together, does at the double only work for one die roll? Or does it just make the whole thing 6inches regardless.

Edited February 5, 2021 by UnholyRevenant

[KK in HK]

36 minutes ago, UnholyRevenant said:

Okay I'm lost. So is the Ironscale CA 2d6 run, so both added together, or is it 2d6 keeping the highest. If its 2d6 added together, does at the double only work for one die roll? Or does it just make the whole thing 6inches regardless.

2d6 added together. At the double make the whole thing 6inches.

[swarmofseals]

1 hour ago, UnholyRevenant said:

Okay I'm lost. So is the Ironscale CA 2d6 run, so both added together, or is it 2d6 keeping the highest. If its 2d6 added together, does at the double only work for one die roll? Or does it just make the whole thing 6inches regardless.

It's 2d6 added together, but at the double makes the result of the whole thing 6.

I think the part that you are missing is that at the double "treats the run roll as a 6". Whenever the result of a "roll" is referenced in AOS it's talking about the total sum of the dice in that roll. So the result of a casting roll is generally the sum of 2d6. Most of the time the result of a run roll is only 1d6 but in the case of the Ironscale ability the "run roll" is the sum of 2d6. So in this specific case At the Double treats the run roll (the sum of 2d6) as 6.

If At The Double said "change the result of any dice used in the run roll to 6" then indeed it would make the run roll a 12.

[UnholyRevenant]

That makes more sense. So at the double overrides everything and turns the whole roll into 6. Thanks for being patient with me. I kinda think GeeDubs have not quite explained that clearly enough. It's not just me whom I know that wording has confused. 

 Q: How does the At the Double command ability interact with an ability that allows you to roll 2D6 when a unit runs (such as the Seekers of Slaanesh Quicksilver Speed ability)?

A: Right, listen here you nitwits, when At the double is used on run rolls involving more than one dice, regardless of the total rolled, the whole blooming thing is treated as you having rolled a total combined roll of 6.

Edited February 5, 2021 by UnholyRevenant

[Gokken]

On 1/5/2021 at 6:06 PM, Chumphammer said:

If running something like this, personal changes I would make are:

1: Drop 2nd unit of WE into 10. You have 2 witch brews and 1 MR so having 3 big units may not work so great to cover with buffs

2: Put the medusa on shrine. Having your general on small numbers of wounds make it an easy target in the current shooting meta

3: Id put the 2nd hag to Morgwaeths blade coven. gives you a mini combat unit and extra wounds for your hagqueen. (If not you can use those extra points for a command point  to be on 1970 again)

4: Put snakes to 20. 60pts for the final 5 is a steal. 

This makes your army 1960 

 

On 1/5/2021 at 2:27 PM, Gokken said:

Anyone still uses  battalions? I often find bodies to be more useful

trying to modify my old cauldren guard with this.

I geuss Morathi would be the best add to this, but its the only model I don't have for DOK.

 

Allegiance: Daughters of Khaine

Leaders
Bloodwrack Medusa (140)
- General
Hag Queen on Cauldron of Blood (290)
Hag Queen (100)
Melusai Ironscale (140)

Battleline
30 x Witch Aelves (300)
- Pairs of Sacrificial Knives
30 x Witch Aelves (300)
- Pairs of Sacrificial Knives
15 x Blood Sisters (420)

Units
5 x Khinerai Lifetakers (80)
5 x Khinerai Lifetakers (80)

Battalions
Cauldron Guard (120)

Total: 1970 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 130

Pros I can get a fast and big unit of melusai, with medusa as general

Both my general and the bloodsisters will be fast with ironscale.

Cons: a slaughter queen on cauldren can more easily survive shooting armies, with a thousand and one dark gift, rather than an 8 wounds medusa.

I have now playtested this with 10  matches and I won 9 random map from gw was rolled each time  and lost one 15-16.

 

Thanks for chumphammer for some thoughts.

 

I must say it works well, 3 big units forces shooting armies to focus atleast some of them over my heroes, or face alot of bodies.

Melusai with thousand and one dark gift, within a cauldren and a none hero units gives her a save of 3/5 -1 to hit on ranged she is actually quite tough. 

the tactic is to send it sisters and one unit of witch aelves again most armies, when they are done fighting it will have caused loads of damage, then you still have a big unit of witches to deal with and going into mid gear, you start to unlock reroll hits for these,  second priest is a abit of tie between sacrament or catachism of murder.  Cauldren is given iron circlet and shield of khaine.

Save your command for battleshock immunity on one unit, and snake run and charge.

Something thats 24 far away is on aveerage 9 away, considering you roll average on your dobbelt run dices with snakes, not factoring in rerolls of 1 and possibility of rerolling a charge for your command point. its actually a decent chance of straight up murdering something in turn 1.

nice I end up making a army list that really works for me, and new book comes out

for the new book I hope the make our damage better, we have almost no rend of mortal wounds and are very dependant on mindrazor, which is not that reliable.

I like the 5 fnp from Hag'narr It fits with my theme, I painted my elves very shadowy and blood covered, for me it makes sense that the chosen of the god of war, would be fearsome and durable fighters even with limited gear. hope that this stays, so you can play a more straight up version of DOK.

I dont like the new "Daughters of Overlord" where you teleport down and shoot everything, if we get a mass slow I am out  

[Mutton]

I'm cool with DoK losing some of their defenses in exchange for more killing power. But also remember we need SOME protection against the magic/shooting nonsense. A glass canon is useless if it gets disintegrated halfway up the board.

As far as what I really want to see in the new book? 
-Make Bloodwrack Shrines/Medusae awesome so they don't feel like a hero tax.

-Make Avatars of Khaine on foot a real thing. Currently they're just an imaginary joke.

-Do something with Doomfire Warlocks. A lv 1 wizard unit without any bonuses (unless you spend nearly 300 points on them) is impractical. Everything they try to do is going to get slapped away by better, cheaper, enemy casters.

-Khinerai should be elite units with a warscroll that reflects that. I want bat-winged Valkyries---not a bunch of dandelions floating in the breeze.

Edited February 6, 2021 by Mutton