Gokken

How does people feel about 1 unit of witches in Zenthar kay army? I feel like witches dont do enough, my local meta is filled with the new beastmen, mawcrushers on 2+ saves, sylvaneth with Alarielle and that unlimited casting range setup. So I will be testing only rolling with a unit and a gladiatrix I have to get a arcane tome in this list in order to get 2 casts. LeadersBloodwrack Medusa (130)- Artefact: Shadow Stone- Lore of Shadows: MindrazorHag Queen (110)- Prayer: Crimson RejuvenationHigh Gladiatrix (90)Hag Queen on Cauldron of Blood (270)- General- Command Trait: Zealous Orator- Artefact: Arcane Tome (Universal Artefact)- Prayer: Sacrament of BloodBattleline10 x Blood Sisters (280)- Reinforced x 110 x Blood Sisters (280)- Reinforced x 15 x Blood Stalkers (180)30 x Witch Aelves (345)- Pairs of Sacrificial Knives- Reinforced x 2Units5 x Khinerai Heartrenders (95)5 x Khinerai Heartrenders (95)Endless Spells & InvocationsHeart of Fury (45)Purple Sun of Shyish (70)Core Battalions*WarlordAdditional EnhancementsArtefactTotal: 1990 / 2000Reinforced Units: 4 / 4Allies: 0 / 400Wounds: 120Drops: 10

I like Zenthar kai, because you see many non morathi lists here. I was thinking something along the lines of Allegiance: Daughters of Khaine- Temple: Zainthar Kai- Grand Strategy:- Triumphs:LeadersBloodwrack Medusa (130)- Artefact: Shadow Stone- Lore of Shadows: MindrazorHag Queen (110)- Prayer: Crimson RejuvenationHag Queen on Cauldron of Blood (270)- General- Command Trait: Zealous Orator- Artefact: Crown of Woe- Prayer: Sacrament of BloodBloodwrack Medusa (130)- Lore of Shadows: MindrazorBattleline10 x Blood Sisters (280)- Reinforced x 110 x Blood Sisters (280)- Reinforced x 15 x Blood Stalkers (180)5 x Blood Stalkers (180)10 x Witch Aelves (115)- Pairs of Sacrificial KnivesUnits5 x Khinerai Heartrenders (95)5 x Khinerai Heartrenders (95)Endless Spells & InvocationsHeart of Fury (45)Purple Sun of Shyish (70)Core Battalions*WarlordAdditional EnhancementsArtefactTotal: 1980 / 2000Reinforced Units: 2 / 4Allies: 0 / 400Wounds: 110Drops: 11 Melusai kin stacks so potential snakes have 5+ ward in turn 1

For me NPE is when your not left with any options in any way to do something and loose. I played dok without morathi and the bow snakes, because that was boring as hell. But before nerf to unleash hell, the damage say irondrakes, lumineth archers and most other things did would kill my unit if i charge it, if I stod still they would just shoot me to smitherines. This would force you to pick Morathi as she is the only thing that could survive 20-50 damage unleash hell and I would estimate other armies would have this issue aswell. save stacking: because it jacks up the value for mortal wounds so insanely much rend 0 and 1 attacks need 6 attacks to score one damage where as mortals on 4+ or 5+ need 2 or 3 attacks. You would need 110 attacks to hurt a maw crusher on a 2+ save........ this would ruin most glass canon armies like gitz, dok and slaneesh. I mean not even witches can do that. Fightlast/fight first: this is like the melee version of unleash hell, if tough things are given this like dragon in flesh eaters back in the day, they will kill any unit in the game as long as they are within range. Total eclipse: this is the most anoying ****** in the game ever! Old cities with deepstrike 3 away from people: what optionos do you honestly have against fulminators starting 3 away from you?

I like this list, I ended up with something similar. Allegiance: Daughters of Khaine- Temple: Hagg Nar- Grand Strategy:- Triumphs:LeadersHigh Gladiatrix (90)**Hag Queen on Cauldron of Blood (270)**- Artefact: Crown of Woe- Prayer: Sacrament of BloodHag Queen (110)*- Prayer: Covenant of the Iron HeartBloodwrack Medusa (130)*- Lore of Shadows: MindrazorMelusai Ironscale (115)*- General- Command Trait: Zealous OratorBattleline10 x Blood Sisters (280)*- Reinforced x 130 x Witch Aelves (345)*- Pairs of Sacrificial Knives- Reinforced x 220 x Witch Aelves (230)**- Pairs of Sacrificial Knives- Reinforced x 15 x Blood Stalkers (180)*Units5 x Khinerai Heartrenders (95)**5 x Khinerai Heartrenders (95)**Endless Spells & InvocationsHeart of Fury (45)Core Battalions*Battle Regiment**Battle RegimentTotal: 1985 / 2000Reinforced Units: 4 / 4Allies: 0 / 400Wounds: 126Drops: 2 But I feel like witches do very litle the added rend from gladiatrix does very litle against all the 2+ and 3+ saves out there. I feel I need to get mind razor off for results, so was thinking about warlords for that extra shadowstone. I like heartrenders their battle tactic is noice! I know how you feel about avatars chump, but year considering one insted of the stalkers. Nice part is my snakes can have 5+ ward in first turn.

so wait your bloodrites only works in your turn? Also battalions are they a thing :D?

Does ironscale still do the same? or did she get something new like medusa?

If avatars stays at 120, they seem really good.

Doomfires are nice for setups with many heroes, getting access to cast without a hero slot is nice I would take doomfires as a utility unit over khinerais now

Question is how does the turn 5 effect work with blessing of khaine?

Poor lifetakers, they were so close to having potential

Super nice job going 4-1 without morathi and snakes, any chance you could share the list? I saw you made a few variations earlier in this thread, but I lost track of which one you used, I tried an avatar and I would say they perform well, I need more in my lists I really wish I could play DOK as something different than a shooting army, I really loved this army but recently my joy from it has turned into frustration and it kinda turned me off warhammer abit

I like how you made some lists without Morathi and 15 bow snakes Chump, I am trying to figure out a list myself but I find my daughters hard to play and I have abit of a burn out because I lost the last 8 games or so with my girls. I really wanna avoid playing and all out shooting army with 15 bow snakes and Morathi

Ive been doing something similar to Chumps medusa list, but with priests. Priests have a lot of options, I was thinking about giving the khainite pendant to the cauldren, so it can both use rune of khaine and another prayer. I was also thinking about going heal+ crimson rejuvination and the heroic ability so the cauldren could heal 3d3. Medusa gets the tome for mystic and mindrazor. My plan was many big units and threats, with snakes, witches, stalkers, cauldrens and shrine being able to do some damage. I won a few game and went draw a few times, It can both do and take a beating this list. I am not the best of the players out there, and I can see why some people have some issues with playing DOK. But I will say playing 3e is a lot more fun than second, and you have more options outside Morathi and shooting snakes. Khainites do well in big groups with unleash hell, total defense, witch brew and what not. Allegiance: Daughters of Khaine- Temple: Hagg Nar- Grand Strategy: Pillars of Belief- Triumphs:LeadersBloodwrack Shrine (190) in Warlord- General- Artefact: Arcane Tome (Universal Artefact)- Lore of Shadows: MindrazorHag Queen on Cauldron of Blood (255) in Warlord- Artefact: Khainite Pendant- Prayer: Blessing of KhaineMelusai Ironscale (115) in Warlord- Artefact: The UlfuriHag Queen (105) in Warlord- Prayer: Crimson RejuvenationHag Queen (105) in Warlord- Prayer: Sacrament of BloodHag Queen (105) in Warlord- Prayer: Catechism of MurderBattleline5 x Blood Stalkers (170) in Warlord15 x Blood Sisters (420) in Warlord- Reinforced x 220 x Witch Aelves (240) in Warlord- Pairs of Sacrificial Knives- Reinforced x 1Units18 x Khainite Shadowstalkers (240) in Warlord- Reinforced x 1Endless Spells & InvocationsHeart of Fury (55)Core BattalionsWarlordWarlordAdditional EnhancementsArtefactArtefactTotal: 2000 / 2000Reinforced Units: 4 / 4Allies: 0 / 400Wounds: 125

Avatars work in HaggNar I would not say they are awesome, I don't see many lists having two or three of them. Bloodsisters pack a punch sure, but again I see the often used as a 5 man screens or a group of 10 and stalkers doing the heavy lifting with Morathi. Havent seen many with 20+ bloodsisters. Shadowstalkers and Khinarai are good for mobility sure, and I have seen a few setups with 10 lifetakers in a cauldren guard. But they are movement supplement to snakes and morathi, they are not the main doers of the army, they move to something after enemies where shot of it. Sisters of Slaughter are nice, ill give you that, I dont like them personaly but they are good, but I havent seen a lot of Draichy ganeth sisters though. Have seen tons of stalkers, with teleporting and double shoot. You don't need to have her and tons of stalkers, its just the better easier option. I would still say 10 is somewhat many, I run a cauldren guard with 0 shooting outside of my cauldren and bloodwracks. It is a fun build, but not as effective as a shooting.

Yes after the nerf to witchbrew, witches and cauldrens it is meta with shooting snakes and Morathi either as a vyperic guard. Outside of shooting snakes and Morathi, there is not much else that is viable.

This is my Hagnar list Had 8 games so far and its at 5/3 so far I am abit unsure if I should take 20 witches and no shadowstalkers or 10 witches and 9 shadow stalkers.. I feel like the army is very swingy and one of the games I lost was a shooting cities list with tons of shooting and 8 screens, it was basicly a city with ringformed walls of screens. He then tabelled my entire list in two turns. I failed both my witch brews so mass paniced ensued from shooting, then I failed my heart of fury so his 1d3 rocket batteries really brought the hurt. I feel like I fail most of my stuff all the time, and then my units flee. I should proberly have spread out my attacks to kill many screens as possible. in maps with 9 from board edge you can basicly alpha strike, with sacrement on cauldrens, mirrordance and the command from ironscale on the sisters. You do want witchbrew off and maybe a razor, but I never get that stupid brew off. I do like the lifetakers, they are often safe in the clouds, and the came down got a witchbrew and killed a stonehorn with turn 3 buffs. They also came in at round 3 and killed teklis, when I both his giant spearmen unit and some archers, after that I won. Anyone have any ideas how to make this more tough? I feel I wait a lot for buffs that never comes, compared to automatic brew from back in the days... Anyone els have this issue?

I like this list I have something like that, why two avatars and not an ironscale for like run and charge on the 15 sisters or something?

Ah thanks Jacek, I have the same experience I played 5 games with the new book I got it off 3 times, once was against glutons though so that was nice. I would call it a 6/10 its not bad nor it is really good and against certain things its a life saver, but it wont move and I fail 3+ all the time basicly and its 80 POINTS! Last night i failed both my witch brews on a 4+ and got table before I had my turn too from a shooting list. I feel abit the daughters became a slotmachine where you gamble for random buffs.

I am wondering if cauldrens are worth it now at all if they cannot fight, over just two hags. 11 attacks with damage 1 just does very litle for me, and most of my army is useally dead by turn 3. Also is the new endless spell heart of fury worth it now if it counts as a known prayer and takes one attempt?

Now that you say it, its weird! The mount thing I don't play many armies other Dok. The item from Hagnar Ulfuri can that be put on the witches goadstaves/spears on the shrine?

I want you so hard to be right, but it says any prayer they know, dont they know bonus prayers? as I see it its either rune of khaine, avatar og faction prayer?

If I got the prayer thing right now you have to choose between Getting rune of khaine off and gaining 1d3 damage, using one of the 6 army prayers, using witchbrew, or awakening avatars? is this correct? I fail to see how you can use cauldrens offensively now, outside of hagnar and maybe Draiche ganeth. Also removing the 5+ from Hagnar was harsh, any horde killer spell and most units will kill you in seconds now. considering how normal 5+ does mortal wounds is now. It was a fun month to play though with my daughters....

this 100% I like playing Hagnar, because I can use all of the units in the book, I play a very varied list with many things. I don't have 90 sisters laying around, I am not insane!

Its a good 1k list, close to what I use for 2k. I would maybe not take Mindrazor but mirror dance in 1k, because the units will be fighting against are not as powerful as in 2k and teleporting both your cauldren and shrine is a lot of mobility, and if they both attack something it is dead.

This! if there is a small unit on an objective Lifetakes can fly there and take it, I would more use stalkers to teleport back to my own objective as more of my force move forward, lifetakes can remove stuff from objectives, shadowstalkers do need to use there ranged attack to do serious damage and you cannot do that from jump range.