AoS 2 - Stormcast Eternals Discussion

[Mark Williams]

4 minutes ago, ledha said:

I'm playing him a lot in 1000 and 2000 points but i can't answer you because mine is literally cursed by the dice gods and roll horribly EVERY TIME.

His last prowess was killing 6 clanrats in two turn before being one shotted by a rat ogor

I played against one in a tournament last year and killed it pretty quickly as well. It seems like kind of a fire magnet to me, but I think you can protect it if you want and maybe do better. People sort of rush models like that out in the open I notice.

[Nos]

I feel like the two spells is overlooked on the Arcanum on Tauralon. I didn’t even know it was a thing til a few weeks back. It’s mount traits are pretty terrible  though. 

I just don’t like the model ultimately so won’t be getting one. That goat face man. Behold my winged constipated Billy Goat, and despair.

[Twh30]

Hi there what are people’s thoughts on this list. Could split liberators into 2 units and haven’t yet decided on 2nd artifact

[Kelsicle]

How do the vanguard units perform these days? I like the idea of having Vanguard Hunters as battle line, the shooting/melee combo seems like it could be fun, potentially kite around the board a little, and obviously the hurricanes and long strikes are useful for a shooting list with some Ballista. Not a hhuge fan of the Palladors though, and would probably look to throw in a couple Incantors for the magic and some Evocators because Evocators. 

[Karragon]

So I attended Sheffield Slaughter just over a week ago and GW Heat 1 this last weekend. I went 3-2 at both with Stormcast and just thought I'd put my thoughts down after facing a variety of different armies over the 10 games/2 weekends.

To Sheffield I took:

Spoiler

Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals
- Stormhost: Hammers of Sigmar
Lord-Arcanum on Celestial Dracoline (240)
- General
- Trait: We Cannot Fail 
- Spell: Celestial Blades
- Mount Trait: Pride Leader
Lord-Castellant (100)
- Artefact: God-forged Blade 
Knight-Incantor (140)
- Spell: Azyrite Halo
Knight-Heraldor (100)
5 x Sequitors (120)
5 x Sequitors (120)
5 x Sequitors (120)
10 x Evocators (400)
6 x Evocators on Dracolines (600)
Chronomantic Cogs (60)

Game 1: Total Commitment vs Fyreslayers

Despite regularly playing against Fyreslayers this was one of the toughest games of the weekend, my Dracolines literally bounced off his wall of half naked dwarves killing a grand total of 3 on the charge to be promptly shot to pieces by magma pikes. The game was a slow grind won perhaps more by luck than great generalship. My opponent forgot that gryphounds can retreat after attacking despite it happening the previous turn and I retreated onto one of his objectives, that might not have won it but 5 sequitors coming back to life to take his other objective sealed the win for me. I killed a grand total of 860 points but was effectively tabled. MVP of the match was the knight incantor, a 3 MW arcane bolt followed by a suicide charge with vial took out the allied Celestant Prime.

Game 2: Focal Points vs Beast of Chaos

My first time playing against BoC. Their endless spells were annoying and a turn 1 charge by bullgor put some serious hurt on both sequitors and dracolines. A failed charge by deep striking gors? bestigors? gave my Dracolines a chance to retreat from the bullgors and charge them to take out the whole unit in one go. This was the only battle where I felt the evocators on foot pulled their weight. Despite various shenanigans on the flank to try and slow/bog them down they ground their way through everything in their path to secure that objective. Sequitors just refused to die, a lone prime left alive in every unit ended up taking out the last of the bullgors and 10 or so ungor. A solid victory this one with me not only tabling him but killing everything he summoned as well for a loss of 380 points.

Game 3: Escalation vs Legion of Sacrament

The only game of the weekend that I felt was unwinnable. Arhkan + 90 grimgasts. There's not much I can say against about this. Dracolines did manage to chew through a unit of them and keep him from bringing them back for another turn. I am just yet to find an answer to grimgasts, even 30 of them is a problem for me, 90 is just ridiculous.

Game 4: Places of Arcane Power vs Slaanesh

Another first for me facing Slaanesh though I was fairly aware of what they did I still underestimated the killing power of daemonettes especially when in large units. Dracolines failing their turn 1 charge left me exposed to counter charges and a 6" pile in from an exalted greater demon took out both my general and artifact carrier, it did bring him within 3" of the evocators though and they made quick work of it, MWing it off the board in a single round. Before being summarily obliterated by daemonettes. Various other foolish mistakes on my part followed. Incantor blowing her vials put enough wounds on herself and a dracoline to let a keeper of secrets finish her off and reduce the dracolines to 1 which I remembered too late meant they were no longer a wizard so could no longer hold the point. Game ended with a victory for Slaanesh; I killed 1390 points and lost 1940 so very very bloody.

Game 5: Better Part of Valour vs Legion of Nagash

As this army was led by Nagash I was expecting an uphill struggle. Dracolines did what dracolines do though and tore through grave guard and zombies alike to secure the central point, despite Nagash's presence. Evocators chewed through spirit hosts to take the right objective at which point my opponent agreed victory was mine. We played on for kill points though. Despite killing all the Dracolines, most of the evocators and my general, Nagash eventually succumbed to sequitor great maces and was slain. 1480 kill points for 980 losses, these numbers I think were a little bit inflated by the knowledge that I'd won turn 2 and our decision to just go for kills.

 

GW Heat 1

After Sheffield I decided to alter my list. I hadn't felt like the evocators on foot had pulled their weight at all so I dropped them in favour of more sequitors. What the list ultimately ended up looking like was:

Spoiler

Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals
- Stormhost: Hammers of Sigmar
Lord-Arcanum on Celestial Dracoline (240)
- General
- Trait: We Cannot Fail 
- Spell: Celestial Blades
- Mount Trait: Pride Leader
Lord-Castellant (100)
- Artefact: God-forged Blade 
Knight-Incantor (140)
- Spell: Azyrite Halo
Knight-Heraldor (100)
20 x Sequitors (400)
10 x Sequitors (240)
5 x Sequitors (120)
6 x Evocators on Dracolines (600)
Chronomantic Cogs (60)

Game 1: Shifting Objectives vs Troggherd

A fun but very brutal game leaving a total of 7 models on the board at the end of it. Hand of gork put a big unit of rockgut troggs 9"s from my dracolines but they failed the charge and then promptly all died to dracoline claws. 4 rotguts managed to kill or rout the big sequitor unit in a single round but the objectives shifted in my favour to give me a solid, if somewhat bruising, win.

Game 2: Places of Arcane Power vs Beast of Chaos 

My first experience against Battletome Tzangor and a perfect example of "fool me once" with the enlightened's reroll ability allowing them to kill all the dracolines in a single round. Despite that it was a close game, by the end he had 1 character left capable of holding the points with a single wound remaining. Some of his characters died to the "wrong thing" which meant I didn't cap the points till the following turn.  A couple of dice going a different way and I think this one was winnable.

Game 3: Starstrike vs Stormcast

20 evocators and 4 ballista made up the bulk of this army. I was very foolish in this game but also very very lucky. I forgot, or didn't notice he had a heraldor. I moved my dracolines up to 17"s away from his evocators, perfectly safe I though till they were 5"s away with a rerollable charge...which they failed. I won priority and not wishing to look this gift horse in the mouth I promptly charged in with the dracolines and killed 14 of them, the rest ran to battleshock though they did hurt the dracolines in the process, who were promptly finished off with ballista fire. All 3 objectives dropped down one side of the board, shielded from LoS of the ballistas by a massive piece of terrain (realmscape feature limited shooting and casting to 18"s as well), I dropped 30 sequitors on them and camped there for the win. Also if anyone ever doubted it, sequitors are better than liberators in a 1v1 fight every time.

Game 4: Better Part of Valour vs Deepkin

This was a very back and forth game and it did come down to turn 5 to find a winner, probably my favourite of the weekend. Dracolines turn 1 charged across the board and took out 6 eels, a counter charge by 20 thralls killed the lot of them, oups. 6 eels and Volturnos crashed into 10 sequitors with Azyrite halo on them. The eels basically mortal wounded themselves to death as I rolled bucket loads of 6s to save (but couldn't hit for toffee). Volturnos, on 1 wound remaining finally killed the last sequitor on turn 3, who promptly came back on the opposite flank, thanks Hammers. A knight incantor charged Volturnos and popped a vial to finish him off. At this point, there's 2 burnt objectives, 1 on each side and score is all even. I made my first mistake here, a unit of sequitors had dropped down near the incantor to help hold the objective from some allied Khinari but they weren't close enough, they should have tried to charge Volturnos or failing that I should have burnt the objective. On the other flank, the resurrected sequitors failed a 4" charge that would have given most likely given me control of that objective (10 seqs vs 10 reavers). He moved the khinari forwards to take the objective and burnt both of them. Victory at this point was his...I did get some retribution by clearing off the reavers, khinari and a turtle but too little too late. 1480 kill points for 1280 losses. Another game that was winnable.

Game 5: Border War vs Ironjawz

This game was brutal and not in a good way. Opponent took first turn and moved up but couldn't charge me, Dracolines and sequitors charged on my turn. Dracoline claws alone took out 10 brutes and the arcanum killed a mega boss. Sequitors whittled down some gore grunters for maybe 1-2 deaths. I got the double turn, dracolines charged another unit of brutes, his mawcrusher and warchanter. Brutes and warchanter both died, mawcrusher survived with a couple of wounds remaining. 30 minutes into the game with 8 models left in his army and 2 kills, my opponent conceded.

 

Overall I'm much happier with the heat 1 list, all the games felt more controlled and less seat of the pants than Sheffield sometimes had. I don't think I'll be using evocators on foot any more though. I'm not convinced they're worth the points, after their initial hit they often die or are left too far away to contribute further. I also didn't feel like the 20 man unit of sequitors was any better than the 10. I'll probably drop it in favour of 3 units of 10 for next time. I also think I need to be less aggressive with the dracolines, everything they touch turns to dead but they often die or get bogged down after that, being deep in the enemy deployment and too far from heraldors or castellants to help. My final thought is that I think we've got the tools to win (grimgasts aside) and I don't think we're in as bad a place as recent statistics make it look. A little more luck or a better player than me could, I feel, have won 3 out of the 4 games I lost.

 

[stus67]

I own 10 foot evocators myself and I use them a lot, but I have been thinking about the dracoline ones. I still think the foot evocators can do more damage.

[Nos]

@Karragon excellent write up thanks. Kudos for enduring 90 Chainghast. That’s just pathetic in its try-hardedness.

Re Evos on foot, I went with 2  x 5 this week to allow for Cleansing Phalanx and screened them with 2 units of Liberators, basically just took them to cast Empower on Sequitor blocks and provide bodies and kept quiet.

I found that by virtue of not being the ahhhh scary big unit they were ignored and were useful to countercharge once the Sequitors became involved in melee. They’re still very powerful as a 5 if unmolested, and CP Empowered Sequitors make a mockery of the battleline tag. So I think they might serve a support role well in certain instances.

 

Edited March 6, 2019 by Nos

[stus67]

How do you think something like this wold fair?

Spoiler

 

Lord-Arcanum on Dracoline (240)

Knight-Incantor (140)

Knight-Heraldor (100)

x5 Seqs (120)

x5 Seqs (120)

x5 Seqs (120)

Cleansing Phalanx Battalion (120)

x5 Evos (200)

x5 Evos (200)

x6 Evos on Dracolines (600)

Aethervoid Pendulum (40)

 

 

Edited March 6, 2019 by stus67

[IRifter]

Can someone ggive me their opinion on mounted units? 

I really liked the fulminators alot before soulwars came out, but i feel that 300 points for the new dracolines is a bit too much. Are Fulminators still viable? Can you build a good list around dracoth units or should you use dracolines isntead?

[HammerOfSigmar]

Just now, IRifter said:

Can someone ggive me their opinion on mounted units? 

I really liked the fulminators alot before soulwars came out, but i feel that 300 points for the new dracolines is a bit too much. Are Fulminators still viable? Can you build a good list around dracoth units or should you use dracolines isntead?

I think fulminator is still good, especially if you take a heradlor in your list.

[IRifter]

2 minutes ago, HammerOfSigmar said:

I think fulminator is still good, especially if you take a heradlor in your list.

But the dracolines have practically the same ability that also has good synergy with heraldor. The Dracoth are more tanky, but how do the 2 compare damage wise? Fulminators also have the 12" range attack

Edited March 6, 2019 by IRifter

[Requizen]

Fulminators are the only Dracothian Guard unit worth taking imo. Desolators and Concussors might be better with a point drop, and Tempestors are... fine but nothing special. 

Dracoline Evocators are strong and fast, but super expensive. A unit of 6 or maybe 9 is about the most you want to bring if you don't want to get tabled by high-damage enemies. They do really want support, however - they're fairly squishy on their own if they get caught out.

Palladors are a cool screening/distraction unit but really lack enough hitting power to be worth bringing competitively. You can use them, but it's not really that great.

 

Basically my feeling is that if you want to run a big ball of punchy that burns across the table and kills whatever it touches, go for Dracolines. If you want smaller, independently operating  units that focus more on flanking and troubleshooting, ~2 units of Fulminators should do the trick.

[GlanceOnASix]

On 3/4/2019 at 6:34 PM, jaebird said:

Has anyone given the Lord-Arcanum on Tauralon a shot? I'm thinking about getting a nice big center piece model, and while the Star Drake is gorgeous, I think it's a little beyond what I can paint right now. I like how the Tauralon looks, but is it worth getting over the LA on Gryph-Charger?

I just got myself a Turalon for love of the model and will be trying it out this weekend, I have a list that on paper I'm pretty darn happy with.

Astral Templars

Turalon Arcanum
-Godbeast Plate
-Dauntless Hunters
-Azyrite Halo Spell (maybe a second damage one)
-Steel Pinions

Heraldor
Castellant
Ordinator

20 Sequitors
10 Sequitors
10 Sequitors

4x Ballista

Gemnids

2k on the nose.

With Astral, the foot half the army gets a 6 inch move at the start of the game, and then as they start to spread another 2 inches to their run roll with the command ability to have Sequitur move 6+5+2+d6 Inches (14-19 inches Turn 1 with the possibility of charging thanks to the Heraldor).

And the +1 to hit ability of his helps the Ballistas more than any other unit in the book (with a potential hitting monsters on 2+ assuming flyover and in Ordinator range).
 

[IRifter]

1 hour ago, Requizen said:

Fulminators are the only Dracothian Guard unit worth taking imo. Desolators and Concussors might be better with a point drop, and Tempestors are... fine but nothing special. 

Dracoline Evocators are strong and fast, but super expensive. A unit of 6 or maybe 9 is about the most you want to bring if you don't want to get tabled by high-damage enemies. They do really want support, however - they're fairly squishy on their own if they get caught out.

Palladors are a cool screening/distraction unit but really lack enough hitting power to be worth bringing competitively. You can use them, but it's not really that great.

 

Basically my feeling is that if you want to run a big ball of punchy that burns across the table and kills whatever it touches, go for Dracolines. If you want smaller, independently operating  units that focus more on flanking and troubleshooting, ~2 units of Fulminators should do the trick.

Thank you for your thoughts. Any chance you got a list with fulminators and/or Dracolines for me?

[Requizen]

13 minutes ago, IRifter said:

Thank you for your thoughts. Any chance you got a list with fulminators and/or Dracolines for me?

That's a bit open ended. Lots of lists can include either one, depending on what you want the rest of it to do. Karragon's Heat 1 list further up the page as a reasonably solid build for 6 Dracolines, and the old Stardrake + 2x2 Fulminators list is the most popular (just Google Les Martin Stardrake if you want an idea). But you could easily run them quite differently depending on what other options you want.

[Mark Williams]

31 minutes ago, IRifter said:

Thank you for your thoughts. Any chance you got a list with fulminators and/or Dracolines for me?

Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals
- Stormhost: Hammers of Sigmar
Vandus Hammerhand (280)
- Mount Trait: Pack Leader
Knight-Heraldor (100)
- General
- Trait: We Cannot Fail 
- Artefact: God-forged Blade 
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warhammer & Shield
- 1x Grandhammers
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warhammer & Shield
- 1x Grandhammers
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warhammer & Shield
- 1x Grandhammers
12 x Desolators (1320)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 102
 

lol

[Naprapaten]

I've been playing with anvil lists.

How do you think this would fare? Low on bodies yes, the other lists have been without ballista and with a 20 sequitor blob instead.

Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals
Mortal Realm: Hysh

Leaders
Knight-Azyros (100)
- Artefact: Aetherquartz Brooch 
Knight-Incantor (140)
- Spell: Azyrite Halo
Lord-Veritant (120)
- General
- Trait: Deathly Aura 
- Artefact: Soulthief 
- Prayer: Translocation
Lord-Ordinator (140)

Battleline
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warhammer & Shield
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warhammer & Shield
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warhammer & Shield

Units
3 x Aetherwings (50)
3 x Aetherwings (50)
9 x Vanguard-Raptors with Longstrike Crossbows (540)
3 x Castigators (80)

War Machines
Celestar Ballista (100)
Celestar Ballista (100)
Celestar Ballista (100)

Battalions
Hailstorm Battery (120)

Total: 1940 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 2
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 108

[Karragon]

14 hours ago, stus67 said:

How do you think something like this wold fair?

  Reveal hidden contents

 

Lord-Arcanum on Dracoline (240)

Knight-Incantor (140)

Knight-Heraldor (100)

x5 Seqs (120)

x5 Seqs (120)

x5 Seqs (120)

Cleansing Phalanx Battalion (120)

x5 Evos (200)

x5 Evos (200)

x6 Evos on Dracolines (600)

Aethervoid Pendulum (40)

 

 

I think you're trying to do too much with 1 list. Cleansing Phalanx is very strong as @Nos points out (and I agree with) but you're basically spending 520 points to buff 2 units of 5 sequitors. If you're going Phalanx you probably want to have units of 10 seqs, keeping the "soul" of your list I'd be inclined to drop one of the foot evocators and the pendulum and use the points to make the sequitors in the battalion 10man. Evocators is key worded in the Cleansing Phalanx so the Dracolines fulfill the requirements...probably...the warscroll in the app doesn't match the one in the book but then it also calls both units "Evocators" and makes "on celestial dracoline" on the unit name really small

[Nos]

16 hours ago, stus67 said:

How do you think something like this wold fair?

  Reveal hidden contents

 

Lord-Arcanum on Dracoline (240)

Knight-Incantor (140)

Knight-Heraldor (100)

x5 Seqs (120)

x5 Seqs (120)

x5 Seqs (120)

Cleansing Phalanx Battalion (120)

x5 Evos (200)

x5 Evos (200)

x6 Evos on Dracolines (600)

Aethervoid Pendulum (40)

 

 

I agree with @Karragon, it’s quite dissonant .

Maybe it’s just me but I personally struggle to “form up” without at least one unit of 10 infantry to form a line around which I can orientate things. I find it’s especially important with Stormcast as their average manoeuvrability tends to mean it’s difficult to reinforce and augment units otherwise without a centre to provide focus, and that sort of synergy tends to be what turns games for Stormcast. 

Dracoline Evocators have been confirmed as counting towards Cleansing Phalanx but again as Karragon says paying for that Batallion to buff at most 10 Sequitors requiring two casts to do so seems kind of unnecessary.

Either double down in what makes that list powerful-Sequitors- and heroes who can make the most out of powerful blocks of infantry like Castellant and Celestant, or if you favour multiple small units in your playstyle forget the Phalanx and invest in the sort of units that favour that more guerilla style approach.

As it stands there’s a lot of moving parts that you would have to be extremely competent to reliably make work 

[PJetski]

5 hours ago, Naprapaten said:

I've been playing with anvil lists.

How do you think this would fare? Low on bodies yes, the other lists have been without ballista and with a 20 sequitor blob instead.

Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals
Mortal Realm: Hysh

Leaders
Knight-Azyros (100)
- Artefact: Aetherquartz Brooch 
Knight-Incantor (140)
- Spell: Azyrite Halo
Lord-Veritant (120)
- General
- Trait: Deathly Aura 
- Artefact: Soulthief 
- Prayer: Translocation
Lord-Ordinator (140)

Battleline
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warhammer & Shield
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warhammer & Shield
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warhammer & Shield

Units
3 x Aetherwings (50)
3 x Aetherwings (50)
9 x Vanguard-Raptors with Longstrike Crossbows (540)
3 x Castigators (80)

War Machines
Celestar Ballista (100)
Celestar Ballista (100)
Celestar Ballista (100)

Battalions
Hailstorm Battery (120)

Total: 1940 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 2
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 108

You can't use the Anvils command ability on the same unit more than once per phase.

[Naprapaten]

I know, thats why i have 3 ballistas @PJetski

[stus67]

@Nos @Karragon

 

Thanks for the input it helps a lot. I've been trying to think up a bunch of weird stuff for Nova Open. I like the idea of the battalions since it's less drops too, but I agree that it wouldn't make sense bringing it for 5 man units. I could never get into the giant 20 man block though because of how slow and unwieldy it is.  I also want to still try and use my foot evos since I already own them.

[Requizen]

1 hour ago, Naprapaten said:

I know, thats why i have 3 ballistas @PJetski

Ballistas are a really inefficient use of the Command Point, and can be quite difficult to utilize in actual gameplay if you want to get extra 18" shooting against important targets. Try it out, but I'd recommend more bodies over the Ballista/Ordinator suite.

12 minutes ago, stus67 said:

@Nos @Karragon

 

Thanks for the input it helps a lot. I've been trying to think up a bunch of weird stuff for Nova Open. I like the idea of the battalions since it's less drops too, but I agree that it wouldn't make sense bringing it for 5 man units. I could never get into the giant 20 man block though because of how slow and unwieldy it is.  I also want to still try and use my foot evos since I already own them.

The thing with the 20 man Sequitor unit is that you don't care about all of them. The only ones that really need to get into combat are the Greatmaces, anything else is just gravy. Especially with a Heraldor, they're far from slow overall. 

[stus67]

6 minutes ago, Requizen said:

Ballistas are a really inefficient use of the Command Point, and can be quite difficult to utilize in actual gameplay if you want to get extra 18" shooting against important targets. Try it out, but I'd recommend more bodies over the Ballista/Ordinator suite.

The thing with the 20 man Sequitor unit is that you don't care about all of them. The only ones that really need to get into combat are the Greatmaces, anything else is just gravy. Especially with a Heraldor, they're far from slow overall. 

So would you recommend 20 sequitors over say two 10 man units?

[Martineando]

I want to say that i'm learning a lot about SCE since i'd started reading this post, so thank you guys.

Yesterday I prove my last all-road list at 1750 and I felt very comfortable with that. The next step is thinking how to upgrade it to 2000 points. This is my 1750 list now:

Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals
- Stormhost: Anvils of the Heldenhammer

Leaders
Lord-Arcanum on Gryph-Charger (240)
- General
- Trait: Deathly Aura 
- Spell: Celestial Blades
Drakesworn Templar (460)
- Storm Lance
- Artefact: Soulthief 
- Mount Trait: Storm-winged
Knight-Heraldor (100)

Battleline
10 x Sequitors (240)
- Stormsmite Mauls and Soulshields
- 5x Stormsmite Greatmaces
5 x Judicators (160)
- Skybolt Bows
- 1x Shockbolt Bows
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warhammers
- 1x Grandhammers

Units
5 x Evocators (200)
- 2x Grandstaves
5 x Evocators (200)
- 1x Grandstaves

Endless Spells
Prismatic Palisade (30)
Quicksilver Swords (20)