AoS 2 - Stormcast Eternals Discussion

[XReN]

27 minutes ago, SchleuderMann2 said:

Is there another way then 4 ballista astrals or anvilstrike to face them?

Probably not. They are stupidly fast and will trample everything that dares to oppose them. You need shooting to deal with them, also some de-buffs could be neat.

[Skasian]

2 hours ago, SchleuderMann2 said:

Hey there,

next  friday I`m going to meet  the new beastclaws in a 2k Match?

just know that their frostlord on stonehorn is pretty strong...

Has anybody some advices for me? Is there another way then 4 ballista astrals or anvilstrike to face them?

I played against them a few days ago. I have to say, with the new tome, they feel significantly faster. 

I'd consider deploying a bit back as it isn't unreasonable for them to close a 24" gap in turn 1.

[AdamR]

3 hours ago, XReN said:

How did Blood and Glory went?

 

2 hours ago, JudgeFredd said:

Wow! I love your army! Almost only models from the beginning! Great. This army could be a goal.
How did it go?

Event was awesome. My generalship less so. My dice rolling a distant third! Discovered I'm good against Blades of Khorne. Had my first game against Slaanesh, where I had no idea what anything did. Got deserted by my dice against Neferata/Legion of Blood. And played like a chump vs Stardrake/6 Desolators.

Ended up 2-3, but to be fair, I never felt going into any of the games (even Slaanesh, but that's probably just me not knowing any better!) that I was on to an auto loss. But the standard of opponents meant you couldn't afford any mistakes. Especially if you can't win a priority roll to save your life. Or make saves. Or wounds!

 

[schwabbele]

42 minutes ago, SchleuderMann2 said:

Has anybody some advices for me?

Faced them once (old ones ) , got crushed.

My mistakes: Deployed too far ahead which opened multiple alpha strike opportunities. 

So deploy as far back as you can. Try to figure out his threat ranges before the game and plan your counter attacks accordingly.  Prepare to be rofl stomped

[Phil D]

Hi all,

Not sure if this has been asked before but just started building my Evocators on Dracoline (Finally catching up with everyone else). In the warscroll it says they are armed with Te,pest Blade  AND Stormstave 2 in every 3 can replace Blade and Stave with Grandstave. Does this mean that if they are amremd with Blade and Stave, they can attack with both in the combat phase? If so is the two weapon combination better than the single Grandstave?

[AdamR]

1 minute ago, Phil D said:

Hi all,

Not sure if this has been asked before but just started building my Evocators on Dracoline (Finally catching up with everyone else). In the warscroll it says they are armed with Te,pest Blade  AND Stormstave 2 in every 3 can replace Blade and Stave with Grandstave. Does this mean that if they are amremd with Blade and Stave, they can attack with both in the combat phase? If so is the two weapon combination better than the single Grandstave?

The tempest blade and stormstave is one attack profile (the 4A/+3+/3+/-1/1D one). The Grandstave (3A/3+/3+/0/2D) is better against 4+ or worse saves and worse only against 2+ saves.

[Phil D]

25 minutes ago, AdamR said:

The tempest blade and stormstave is one attack profile (the 4A/+3+/3+/-1/1D one). The Grandstave (3A/3+/3+/0/2D) is better against 4+ or worse saves and worse only against 2+ saves.

Sorry misread the warscroll, thought the blade was the first line and the stave was the second.

[SchleuderMann2]

7 hours ago, XReN said:

Probably not. They are stupidly fast and will trample everything that dares to oppose them. You need shooting to deal with them, also some de-buffs could be neat.

i think i will try something like 4 ballsitas with ordinator and azyros, some liberator battleline (since they hit on2+ with astrals and their warscroll buffs) and maybe a unit of vanguard raptors with the aetherwings to block charges. when you combine the raptors with the spell of a knight incantor you get a -2 to charge which could also be very helpful. do you see the possibility of the celestant prime being useful in a game like this? I  really like the model but if i compare him with a frostlord he seems reaaaally weak 🙄

[Sleepa]

53 minutes ago, SchleuderMann2 said:

do you see the possibility of the celestant prime being useful in a game like this? I  really like the model but if i compare him with a frostlord he seems reaaaally weak 🙄

The Celestant Prime is a scalpel, and pretty hard to compare to real monsters from most other factions. He's a highly mobile, very reliable assassin, but at the cost of durability and presence. If you drop him in play turn one or two, he's not going to have the punch to kill most hammers or monster units, but waiting until turns 3-5 means those enemy threats have free reign over the battlefield until he can challenge them. Anything reasonably dangerous in close combat will kill him if he doesn't wipe it out on the charge. Honestly, he's a role player, but not a terribly versatile one. I think he needs either a SUBSTANTIAL points decrease, or more preferably, a total rework.  Ghal Maraz is better than the Slayer of Kings (for the time being), but it doesn't have a profile that reflect's the legendary weapon.  The Prime is a *prime* example of how much power creep the game has seen since release. He's really outdated.

You'd probably accomplish more with Gavriel Sureheart and a unit of 5 Evocators. I think that even comes out to the same points as the Celestant Prime. Although you'd have to run Hammers of Sigmar, which has fallen out of favor.

[Maturin]

22 minutes ago, Sleepa said:

The Celestant Prime is a scalpel, and pretty hard to compare to real monsters from most other factions. He's a highly mobile, very reliable assassin, but at the cost of durability and presence. If you drop him in play turn one or two, he's not going to have the punch to kill most hammers or monster units, but waiting until turns 3-5 means those enemy threats have free reign over the battlefield until he can challenge them. Anything reasonably dangerous in close combat will kill him if he doesn't wipe it out on the charge. Honestly, he's a role player, but not a terribly versatile one. I think he needs either a SUBSTANTIAL points decrease, or more preferably, a total rework.  Ghal Maraz is better than the Slayer of Kings (for the time being), but it doesn't have a profile that reflect's the legendary weapon.  The Prime is a *prime* example of how much power creep the game has seen since release. He's really outdated.

You'd probably accomplish more with Gavriel Sureheart and a unit of 5 Evocators. I think that even comes out to the same points as the Celestant Prime. Although you'd have to run Hammers of Sigmar, which has fallen out of favor.

Everybody considers the prime as a powerfull albeit fragile one turn pony. But as a MW battery, the prime is very interesting. EVERY turn, you can decide to do 3MW in a bubble at 24inch range, if you're lucky, you have a 6inch bubble, but let's say you've got one of 3inches. Imagine the effect you have on clustered heroes! If you get second turn, you killed at least one or two 6wounds heroes! Armies heavily relying on synergies will be out of luck by turn two.

[jhamslam]

2 hours ago, Sleepa said:

The Celestant Prime is a scalpel, and pretty hard to compare to real monsters from most other factions. He's a highly mobile, very reliable assassin, but at the cost of durability and presence. If you drop him in play turn one or two, he's not going to have the punch to kill most hammers or monster units, but waiting until turns 3-5 means those enemy threats have free reign over the battlefield until he can challenge them. Anything reasonably dangerous in close combat will kill him if he doesn't wipe it out on the charge. Honestly, he's a role player, but not a terribly versatile one. I think he needs either a SUBSTANTIAL points decrease, or more preferably, a total rework.  Ghal Maraz is better than the Slayer of Kings (for the time being), but it doesn't have a profile that reflect's the legendary weapon.  The Prime is a *prime* example of how much power creep the game has seen since release. He's really outdated.

You'd probably accomplish more with Gavriel Sureheart and a unit of 5 Evocators. I think that even comes out to the same points as the Celestant Prime. Although you'd have to run Hammers of Sigmar, which has fallen out of favor.

Adding to this. Nothing in the SCE roster outside of shooting can compete with activation wars. So in certain matches - Hermdar Fyreslayers or Slaanesh Triple Keeper, the Prime will be less than optimal. 3+ saves dont mean much when things have 2  rend flat 5 damage fighting first, with MWs in addition.

Problem with SCE heroes as always is cost and wound count. Vandus, Astreia, C Prime, Aventis. You name it. Not good choices in a meta where heroes at that point level come with 14 wounds, and some mortal wound save or combat trick / healing shenanigan. 

Heck wizards that cost the same as our wizards are now casting / unbinding 2 spells a turn. We dont get that option until we start taking wizards worth 320 points (seriously?)

You could use the Prime as a MW battery, but really you are better off playing targeted missile units for the cost. SCE needs quick and efficient removal , and most of the time cannot afford to spend 2-3 turns trying to remove something with avg 2 mortal wounds a turn.

Yeah i think the tome and units as a whole are due a massive overhaul. Something like the Bonereaper tome would be amazing

Edited November 5, 2019 by jhamslam

[Mark Williams]

@jhamslam Yes I agree with all of your points. The army just feels completely outdated at this point. I enjoy playing it, but when I'm looking across the table at new books, I just have to shake my head sometimes. SCE definitely need an overhaul, but I have no clue how or when that would happen. Especially since they just got a brand new tome, and it pretty much didn't address anything. Maybe we'll get some points adjustments in December.

[jhamslam]

18 minutes ago, Mark Williams said:

@jhamslam Yes I agree with all of your points. The army just feels completely outdated at this point. I enjoy playing it, but when I'm looking across the table at new books, I just have to shake my head sometimes. SCE definitely need an overhaul, but I have no clue how or when that would happen. Especially since they just got a brand new tome, and it pretty much didn't address anything. Maybe we'll get some points adjustments in December.

Its been almost a year and a half since our last tome. If you count the time Sacrosanct chamber came out, i think an update for not just us but Nighthaunt is overdue. They have a lot of the same problems. You can tell the design team on both the initial soul wars factions was quite conservative, and theyve taken the brakes off for these new tomes.

Like the most astounding thing to me is that our units are only as good as their warscroll says. Other units may not seem like much but coupled with their tome turn into killing machines. 

Points changes would help. The fact that they thought nerfing sequitors, castellant or gavriel was the right move is crazy. Goes to show its pubbies out there giving feedback, but hey outside of changing warscrolls its our best shot

Edited November 5, 2019 by jhamslam

[Sleepa]

3 hours ago, Maturin said:

Everybody considers the prime as a powerfull albeit fragile one turn pony. But as a MW battery, the prime is very interesting. EVERY turn, you can decide to do 3MW in a bubble at 24inch range, if you're lucky, you have a 6inch bubble, but let's say you've got one of 3inches. Imagine the effect you have on clustered heroes! If you get second turn, you killed at least one or two 6wounds heroes! Armies heavily relying on synergies will be out of luck by turn two.

You can also take 3 Celestar Ballistas for the price of a Celestant Prime. That's 21 wounds with 36/18" Range, and they sport at 2+ save against shooting in cover. If you want to slowly plink away support heroes, three ballistas can do it just as well at a longer range. Or you could take 6 Longstrike Raptors, which could theoretically remove one support hero per shooting phase. I'm a ballista fan myself, but the competitive community clearly favors the 9-Block  of Raptors in Anvilstrike.

@jhamslam and @Mark Williams summed up SCE pretty well. Outdated and conservatively under-tuned. It's hard to balance a faction with so many unit options, but erring on the side of 10% of the units in the book, 25% of the Stormhosts, and 0% of the Battalions being competitive, can't possibly have been GW's goal.

[schwabbele]

I don’t think we get a new tome soon. And we shouldn’t, a few point adjustments would be fine here and there end of year . And hell no new models, we got way too much already. Make other factions happy too . 

GW should monitor for a few months after they finally released all tomes for aos2 . I hope they learned from the past and don’t rush things. Because if they do we either are op and the cycle repeats itself or it might get even worse 😬.

 

[jhamslam]

24 minutes ago, schwabbele said:

I don’t think we get a new tome soon. And we shouldn’t, a few point adjustments would be fine here and there end of year . And hell no new models, we got way too much already. Make other factions happy too . 

GW should monitor for a few months after they finally released all tomes for aos2 . I hope they learned from the past and don’t rush things. Because if they do we either are op and the cycle repeats itself or it might get even worse 😬.

 

Honestly if Sacrosanct chamber had been left the way it is, with the vanguard and warrior chambers + heroes getting points decreases, we d be alright. Not a super great tome, but alright

[Maturin]

11 hours ago, Sleepa said:

You can also take 3 Celestar Ballistas for the price of a Celestant Prime. That's 21 wounds with 36/18" Range, and they sport at 2+ save against shooting in cover. If you want to slowly plink away support heroes, three ballistas can do it just as well at a longer range. Or you could take 6 Longstrike Raptors, which could theoretically remove one support hero per shooting phase. I'm a ballista fan myself, but the competitive community clearly favors the 9-Block  of Raptors in Anvilstrike.

9 Longstrikes with a CA point are super strong, indeed. What I'm not a fan of is the "theoretically" part of your sentence ;).
I like to be sure of what I can do because I almost always have unlucky rolls. Three balistas, even wiht LO, are totally unreliable, you could have 15 hits or 2! I've played a guy at a tournament wash people away with 2 balistas during some games, and some games later his balistas did NOTHING AT ALL!  At least with the Prime, I know how many MW I'm sure I will do!

I totally understand that it's subpar on the competitive level, still, I like him (plus I bought one painted decently and I'm a terrible painter, so I'd rather use him :D)

[PJetski]

I have been been making some house rules to update the stormhosts.

I'm pretty sure these aren't balanced, but let me know what you think anyway

https://imgur.com/a/Fom4XcZ

[XReN]

45 minutes ago, PJetski said:

I have been been making some house rules to update the stormhosts.

I'm pretty sure these aren't balanced, but let me know what you think anyway

https://imgur.com/a/Fom4XcZ

Looks pretty good, but have some buts:

Hammers of Sigmar - I think the command trait should be something different

Hallowed Knight - I'd rather not change the established Battle Trait-Command Ability-Command Trait-Artefact structure, instead making general a priest that can know a prayer and chant it even if another priest already chanted the same one would be cool, whille a general that is already a priest knows an additional prayer and can chant and dublicate (but not those he chanted himself)

Vindicators - fair and square

Anvils - see vindicators

Knights Excelsior - No Mercy might be pushing it, the artefact should have the same once per game effect but without random involved and activating at the start of the combat phase

Warbringers - see Hollow Knights about structure, the CA might be +1 to cast, unbind and dispell until the next your hero phase non stackable

Tempest Lord - alright, but obviously the less strong than most

Templars - fine

[jhamslam]

1 hour ago, PJetski said:

I have been been making some house rules to update the stormhosts.

I'm pretty sure these aren't balanced, but let me know what you think anyway

https://imgur.com/a/Fom4XcZ

you gonna suggest these to GW? i might do a write up explaining the problems with NH and SCE rn. According to someone in the Honest WG chat, if its well written they actually do listen to it?

[PJetski]

1 hour ago, XReN said:

Looks pretty good, but have some buts:

Hammers of Sigmar - I think the command trait should be something different

Hallowed Knight - I'd rather not change the established Battle Trait-Command Ability-Command Trait-Artefact structure, instead making general a priest that can know a prayer and chant it even if another priest already chanted the same one would be cool, whille a general that is already a priest knows an additional prayer and can chant and dublicate (but not those he chanted himself)

Vindicators - fair and square

Anvils - see vindicators

Knights Excelsior - No Mercy might be pushing it, the artefact should have the same once per game effect but without random involved and activating at the start of the combat phase

Warbringers - see Hollow Knights about structure, the CA might be +1 to cast, unbind and dispell until the next your hero phase non stackable

Tempest Lord - alright, but obviously the less strong than most

Templars - fine

Thanks for the feedback

Re: Hallowed Knights - The Orruks book has changed the format, with the Drakkfoot clan getting a spell instead of a command trait. I thought this was pretty interesting and decided to run with it. HKs always felt like the stormhost that would use the most Priests, so it seemed like a natural fit.

Re: Knights Excelsior - My version of No Mercy is quite strong but right now KE is a useless stormhost so maybe that's alright? It's in line with other armies allowing units to fight twice, but this one has the stipulation that the first attack had to wipe a unit out. It seemed like a good fit for their narrative.

Re: Warbringers - I'm not sure Stormcast should have access to more bonuses to unbind/dispel since we have Incantors with dispel scrolls.

Re: Tempest Lords - The artefact is pretty bonkers. You can use a free command ability in every phase. That means you can use a hero phase CA, run 6, reroll charge, combat phase CA, and inspiring presence every turn. I was also planning on going through and updating some of the warscrolls to have better command abilities (Stormcast have really bad command abilities) so it may even end up being overpowered.

 

1 hour ago, jhamslam said:

you gonna suggest these to GW? i might do a write up explaining the problems with NH and SCE rn. According to someone in the Honest WG chat, if its well written they actually do listen to it?

I never considered it, but if they actually read stuff I might put more effort into this and try to submit them to GW.

Is there an email address for this sort of thing?

On a side note, I want to also make rules for Nighthaunt Ghosthosts 👻

Edited November 6, 2019 by PJetski

[Lightomancer]

Hi guys,

I'm joining a local gaming club for a 1000pt beginner friendly tournament and this will be part of  me first few games after learning the rules of AoS.

I want to try some kind of hard to hit list and testing spells as well and I thought of this for my stormies list :

Spoiler

 

Stormhost: Celestial Warbringers

Leaders (380 pts)

- Lord Arcanum, general, spell: Thundershock spell(160 pt)

- Lord Relictor, Divine Light prayer (100 pt)

- Lord Veritant, Translocation, Hammers of Augury (120 pt)

 

10 Liberators (200 pts)

5 Sequitors (130 pts)

 

5 Evocators (220 pts)

 

Right now this sits at 930 pts, I thought of adding Prismatic Palisade or Emerald Lifeswarm or extra CP, what do you guys think would be better?

 

Again this is mostly to have fun and test my way into types of games for SCE, what are your thoughts?

 

 

[armisael]

Not sure that I can ask here or not.

But.. how can I add Gotrek as a ally for Stormcast Army in Battlescribe?

Edited November 6, 2019 by armisael

[Nizrah]

What roster would you pick? I have incoming 1250 GT and i except only good and maxed rosters.

1.

Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals
- Stormhost: Anvils of the Heldenhammer

Leaders
Knight-Azyros (100)
Knight-Incantor (140)
- General
- Trait: Deathly Aura
- Artefact: Stormrage Blade
- Spell: Chain Lightning

Battleline
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warhammer & Shield
- 1x Grandhammers
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warhammer & Shield
- 1x Grandhammers

Units
6 x Vanguard-Raptors with Longstrike Crossbows (340)
10 x Evocators (440)

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Quicksilver Swords (30)

Total: 1250 / 1250
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 200
Wounds: 72

 

2.

Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals
- Stormhost: Anvils of the Heldenhammer

Leaders
Knight-Azyros (100)
- Artefact: Soulthief
Lord-Veritant (120)
- General
- Trait: Deathly Aura
- Prayer: Translocation

Battleline
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warhammer & Shield
- 1x Grandhammers
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warhammer & Shield
- 1x Grandhammers

Units
9 x Vanguard-Raptors with Longstrike Crossbows (510)
5 x Evocators (220)
3 x Aetherwings (50)
3 x Aetherwings (50)

Total: 1250 / 1250
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 200
Wounds: 76
 

[schwabbele]

1 hour ago, armisael said:

Not sure that I can ask here or not.

But.. how can I add Gotrek as a ally for Stormcast Army in Battlescribe?

This got me curious and I started looking around.

So I didn't find him but I found this:

 

https://github.com/BSData/warhammer-age-of-sigmar/pull/1101/commits

Looks like he is hidden somewhere in the Fyreslayers, so as soon as this change is available in the datafiles you should be able to add Fyreslayers to SCE as allies and then add Gortrek.