AoS 2 - Stormcast Eternals Discussion

[AdamR]

I had considered Arkanauts too, either 1x30 or 3x10 with light skyhooks, but it's a pain trying to get the hooks. At least ballistae are cheap to buy!

[XReN]

1 minute ago, AdamR said:

I had considered Arkanauts too, either 1x30 or 3x10 with light skyhooks, but it's a pain trying to get the hooks. At least ballistae are cheap to buy!

If you happen to settle on them - 20 and chemist will give you the most number of skyhook shots - 12. 

From the top of the head - you get 2 skyhooks in 2 boxes, then you can take of the skypike's top and put it on the volleyguns so that's 4, than ask local KO players for some bits, like baloon boys grapnel launchers which look very much like skyhooks.

[Raffonerd]

22 minutes ago, AdamR said:

I had considered Arkanauts too, either 1x30 or 3x10 with light skyhooks, but it's a pain trying to get the hooks. At least ballistae are cheap to buy!

Why no shadow warriors or waywatcher?

[l1censetochill]

16 hours ago, Hodges said:

Got lost on the previous page, but how are people finding Gotrek in their SCE lists? Is he too expensive to support in an already expensive army?

Haven't seen a lot of SCE lists with Gotrek, and honestly I can understand why - in an army that already lacks bodies due to elite, over-costed units, we just can't afford to spend that many points on a single model. We also often struggle with mobility (Scions and Relictor are all that keep us in the game, really) and chaff screens, which Gotrek ain't gonna help with.

While I don't doubt there are fun SCE armies out there with Gotrek, I just don't really feel like he does enough to help us win. He's a tough, single-model anvil, and is super killy, but has such a limited threat range that it's not hard for a decent opponent to just zone him out for a good chunk of the game. We've already got cheaper, similarly-durable anvil options that put more bodies on the table, and between our hammer units and shooting we don't lack killing power. When we lose, we usually lose on objectives (and to Slaanesh, but that's a whole other subject). Gotrek is unlikely to change that.

Others may disagree, and I'm certainly no master strategist/listbuilder, so there may be builds I'm not thinking of that would be great. But personally, if I wanted to spent 500+ points on a single model, I'd probably just go with a Stardrake with Ignax Scales over Gotrek. Sure, he's nowhere near as killy, but at least he's got the mobility to get into the opponent's face on turn 1 and pin/body block units to keep them off objectives for a couple turns.

[Raffonerd]

24 minutes ago, l1censetochill said:

Haven't seen a lot of SCE lists with Gotrek, and honestly I can understand why - in an army that already lacks bodies due to elite, over-costed units, we just can't afford to spend that many points on a single model. We also often struggle with mobility (Scions and Relictor are all that keep us in the game, really) and chaff screens, which Gotrek ain't gonna help with.

While I don't doubt there are fun SCE armies out there with Gotrek, I just don't really feel like he does enough to help us win. He's a tough, single-model anvil, and is super killy, but has such a limited threat range that it's not hard for a decent opponent to just zone him out for a good chunk of the game. We've already got cheaper, similarly-durable anvil options that put more bodies on the table, and between our hammer units and shooting we don't lack killing power. When we lose, we usually lose on objectives (and to Slaanesh, but that's a whole other subject). Gotrek is unlikely to change that.

Others may disagree, and I'm certainly no master strategist/listbuilder, so there may be builds I'm not thinking of that would be great. But personally, if I wanted to spent 500+ points on a single model, I'd probably just go with a Stardrake with Ignax Scales over Gotrek. Sure, he's nowhere near as killy, but at least he's got the mobility to get into the opponent's face on turn 1 and pin/body block units to keep them off objectives for a couple turns.

Gotrek is bad  guys. Yesterday only one guy over 60 had him. 0 - 4 win lose ratio. 

Edited October 21, 2019 by Raffonerd

[schwabbele]

2 hours ago, Raffonerd said:

Why no shadow warriors or waywatcher?

My guess volume of shots. Ballistae or the dwarfs are just better at it and have better range. 

[LordCelestant Imperius 1st]

On 10/19/2019 at 7:15 PM, l1censetochill said:

Can you? That's weird - I'm on the website right now, and regardless of my allegiance (Order, SCE, Cities) I only see the 220/280 point Celestial Hurricanum (with/without the Battlemage). Obviously you can put the Hurricanum itself in any Order army that it can be allied into, but I'm not seeing the 300/360 point version anywhere.

Regardless, I just don't think the Hurricanum really fits into what most good SCE armies are doing these days - it really feels like it wants to be part of a Death Star formation with several other wizards hiding behind a bunch of screens. I'm sure there's an SCE list out there that could include it, I just don't think it synergizes well with our units and what we're typically trying to do. Those 280 points could potentially be spent on bodies (10 Sequitors) or shooting (2 units of 3 Hurricane Raptors) that we can deep strike instead.

Oh man, didn't check the warscroll in a while..... so frustrated that it is not an order buff anymore.... explaining the points drop also.

Well, i was going to get the cities battletome anyway. Thank you for your time, my questionning was misplaced 😃

 Dang !

 

[Sagittarii Orientalis]

The latest Designer's Commentary for SCE states that Celestant-Prime adds 2 to his attacks characteristic for every turn he stays in reserve.

Since the text does not specifically state "friendly turns", I believe this means Celestant-Prime can add 4 to his attacks characteristics when he stays in reserve for a full battle round. 

Below is the original text for your information.

"Q: Does the Celestant-Prime’s Retribution from On High Ability add 2 to the Attacks characteristic of Ghal Maraz for each turn that the Celestant-Prime remains in reserve? A: Yes."

 

Edited October 21, 2019 by Sagittarii Orientalis

[Maturin]

4 minutes ago, Sagittarii Orientalis said:

The latest Designer's Commentary for SCE states that Celestant-Prime adds 2 to his attacks characteristic for every turn he stays in reserve.

Since the text does not specifically state "friendly turns", I believe this means Celestant-Prime can add 4 to his attacks characteristics when he stays in reserve for a full battle round. 

Below is the original text for your information.

"Q: Does the Celestant-Prime’s Retribution from On High Ability add 2 to the Attacks characteristic of Ghal Maraz for each turn that the Celestant-Prime remains in reserve? A: Yes."

 

Yet his warscroll is clear : Instead of setting up this model on the
battlefield, you can place it to one side and say
that it is set up in the Heavens as a reserve unit.
If you do so, at the end of your movement phase
you must declare whether this model will remain
in reserve or strike from the Heavens.
If this model remains in reserve, add 2 to the
Attacks characteristic of Ghal Maraz until the
end of the battle.

As you can't have him drop during your opponent's movement phase, you only get +2 for a battle round. I think you're exploiting the designer's commentary in a wrong way.

Edited October 21, 2019 by Maturin

[Sagittarii Orientalis]

1 minute ago, Maturin said:

Yet his warscroll is clear : Instead of setting up this model on the
battlefield, you can place it to one side and say
that it is set up in the Heavens as a reserve unit.
If you do so, at the end of your movement phase
you must declare whether this model will remain
in reserve or strike from the Heavens.
If this model remains in reserve, add 2 to the
Attacks characteristic of Ghal Maraz until the
end of the battle.

Then it is contradictory in my opinion. 

Leaving the original text without adding the latest commentary would have been much clearer.

The commentary however seems to add unnecessary confusion as it can be interpreted as enemy turn contributing to Celestant-Prime's attacks.

[Maturin]

Just now, Sagittarii Orientalis said:

Then it is contradictory in my opinion. 

Leaving the original text without adding the latest commentary would have been much clearer.

The commentary however seems to add unnecessary confusion as it can be interpreted as enemy turn contributing to Celestant-Prime's attacks.

I totally agree with you. Now, what takes precedence ? If the designer's commentary is, then you're right, and a Prime gets +4 attack for each battle round spent in reserves. To be honest, it's not that overpowered, a friend playing Ironjaws told me his maw crush can do 8 attacks Damage 6 so ...

[schwabbele]

Isn’t that still the old faq? Even the doc says December 2018

[Maturin]

6 minutes ago, schwabbele said:

Isn’t that still the old faq? Even the doc says December 2018

Didn't they just add the bits on evocators being able to do just once their MW attacks ?

[schwabbele]

24 minutes ago, Maturin said:

Didn't they just add the bits on evocators being able to do just once their MW attacks ?

I think. But for me it sounds more like any time they fight for first time in ANY phase. I guess some people had issues when e.g anvils activated them in hero phase . 

[l1censetochill]

19 minutes ago, schwabbele said:

I think. But for me it sounds more like any time they fight for first time in ANY phase. I guess some people had issues when e.g anvils activated them in hero phase . 

I don't think that's the reason for the change, as for us it really changes nothing. It still activates Lightning Arc after they've been picked to fight for the first time once per phase, meaning it works once in the Hero Phase then works again in the Combat Phase - in an Anvils army, you still get it twice like you used to.

I'm pretty sure the reason for the change is to prevent Evocators from being too good in a Hammerhal army, since they have the ability that lets their units pile in and attack again at the end of the Combat Phase. Even if they could get Lightning Arc twice in the Combat Phase, I don't necessarily think it would be that OP - at least by the standards of what a lot of armies do all the time with activation BS and double pile ins - but I'm guessing that's why they made it. This change avoids giving Evocators any chance of doing something that could be perceived as OP, and preemptively prevents any outraged screeching on the part of people who hate Stormcast in general and Evocators in specific.

Edited October 21, 2019 by l1censetochill

[schwabbele]

ah ok that make sense too, so kinda mini „nerf“ clarification

[Maturin]

Yeah it's incredible the rage against SCE. They're not that powerful when compared to other armies. Anvil Longstrikes is really pwoerful, it's true, but except that ....

[schwabbele]

2 hours ago, Sagittarii Orientalis said:

Then it is contradictory in my opinion.

No, ability triggers at end of sce players movement phase. 

[schwabbele]

32 minutes ago, Maturin said:

Yeah it's incredible the rage against SCE. They're not that powerful when compared to other armies. Anvil Longstrikes is really pwoerful, it's true, but except that ....

Kinda got used to that 😆 didn’t surprise me at all that IJ can build a 6 man cav unit with buff for 420 points which lets our draco cators for 820 (870 when we take cp into consideration) points look like a hot steamy pile of sh*t 😂 

but at least models are cool 😎 

Edited October 21, 2019 by schwabbele

[Raffonerd]

15 hours ago, schwabbele said:

My guess volume of shots. Ballistae or the dwarfs are just better at it and have better range. 

Waywatcher is better then those if he does not move. If you have also azyros wounds rises too. (can reach 28" range)

The only negative point is that it's one model. (less wounds and less presence on objectives). But he also good against enemy shots. (-2 to hit). He's also better then a ballista with ordinator (true that ballista has rand 2, but if you count 110 + 140/3 or 4) you see that WW is better per point).

Edited October 22, 2019 by Raffonerd

[schwabbele]

28 minutes ago, Raffonerd said:

Waywatcher

TIL waywatcher != waywatchers , that hero is actually pretty nice.

[Raffonerd]

12 minutes ago, schwabbele said:

TIL waywatcher != waywatchers , that hero is actually pretty nice.

Yeah, depends on your list. But it's a very good substitute for ballista righ now.

Also if you want to spend less then 400 pnt for shooting.

[chord]

17 hours ago, Maturin said:

Yeah it's incredible the rage against SCE. They're not that powerful when compared to other armies. Anvil Longstrikes is really pwoerful, it's true, but except that ....

Yeah people really hate SCE,  I'm convinced its why GW makes the SCE units so lousy compared to the newer armies.   

Hope we get a new book soon that really fixes things and at least gives us internal balance.

[Raffonerd]

30 minutes ago, chord said:

Yeah people really hate SCE,  I'm convinced its why GW makes the SCE units so lousy compared to the newer armies.   

Hope we get a new book soon that really fixes things and at least gives us internal balance.

Because meta needs changes. Also business, they need to sell new stuff.

Btw SCE are not that bad. Anvil and hammers are still competitive.

Edited October 22, 2019 by Raffonerd

[LordPrometheus]

5 hours ago, Raffonerd said:

Because meta needs changes. Also business, they need to sell new stuff.

Btw SCE are not that bad. Anvil and hammers are still competitive.

The problem is we literally have only one list/stormhost that is truly top tier. Everything else just gets dumpstered by the newer armies. We pay more points for far less utility. It's just a sad fact.