AoS 2 - Sylvaneth Discussion

[Warbossironteef]

Can anyone make out Sythe Kurnoths scroll? Also any sign of Drycha?

Edited June 17, 2022 by Warbossironteef

[Jaskier]

Just now, Warbossironteef said:

Can anyone make put Sytche Kurnoths? Also any sign of Drycha?

Main changes to Scythe Kurnoths are Rend 3 and flat Damage 2, and they gained an ability where enemy units suffer a mortal wound if they finish a pile-in move within 3" of them. These things can get up to Rend 4 with the updated Treesong spell 😳

[Jaskier]

Got some more for you;

Treelord Ancient/Treelord - much more consistent/less swingy damage profiles for both shooting and melee. Same stat changes, strike-last monstrous rampage and bracketing improvements as Durthu. 

Treelord Ancient - lost +1 save aura command ability, otherwise largely the same (notably he now fights just as well as the normal Treelord - his overall damage output is greatly improved.)

Treelord - gained an ability where if he hits a unit with his melee attacks, that unit can't make pile-in moves in that phase. For reference, his overall damage output is probably slightly improved as the Sweeping Blows are likely a bit worse than before (5 Damage 2 attacks vs 4 Damage D6 attacks) but the Talon is much better. 

Warsong Revenant - unchanged. 

Branchwych - gets +1 to-hit and to-wound when wholly within 9" of a wood, her spell is now identical to the Warsongs' but with a casting value of 5 (hers used to do mortals on 6s, now it does them on 5s like the Warsong) and contrary to what we hoped she did not inherit the Branchwraith's Dryad summon. 

So the Branchwych seems like a discount Warsong as far as the mortal bomb potential, or even a cheeky addition to that combo if you use both a Spellportal and that new "cast through a wood" trait (i.e. Wych gets the trait, Warsong gets the Portal or vice-versa) to do both spells from afar. 

The Treelord seems pretty darn strong with the combo of forcing strikes last (especially as it looks like Hunters of the Heartlands is disappearing?) and then disabling pile-in moves on top of a much better base profile. I think it's got good mileage for sure. The Ancient feels questionable - 100 points more than a Treelord (and 80 more than it used to be) gets you a single cast/unbind and one free wood as well as access to traits and artifacts, though it loses that pile-in stopper. I'll try the immortal build on him but other than being a big tarpit (which would be dirty in Winterleaf) I'm not sure how else to use it. Durthu will likely be the more worthwhile recipient of traits. 

Edit: I ran some quick numbers on unbuffed Treelords/Ancients comparing their old and new damage stats, so keeping in mind they have far better bracketing, the Treelord is consistently hitting ~8/10 unsaved against a 4+ save baseline whereas before it was a coin toss but probably levelled out to ~6 unsaved, and the Ancient does the same whereas it used to only average a paltry ~4 unsaved before (and lost 33% effectiveness after suffering just 3 Wounds!) 

Edited June 18, 2022 by Jaskier

[Freejack02]

TLA remaining 1 cast/unbind is disappointing, but I think it was too much to expect that to change (although I hoped it would). Excited about regular Treelords being worthwhile, think I want to run several and see what they can do. 

[Arzalyn]

35 minutes ago, Jaskier said:

Got some more for you;

Treelord Ancient/Treelord - much more consistent/less swingy damage profiles for both shooting and melee. Same stat changes, strike-last monstrous rampage and bracketing improvements as Durthu. 

Treelord Ancient - lost +1 save aura command ability, otherwise largely the same (notably he now fights just as well as the normal Treelord - his overall damage output is greatly improved.)

Treelord - gained an ability where if he hits a unit with his melee attacks, that unit can't make pile-in moves in that phase. For reference, his overall damage output is probably slightly improved as the Sweeping Blows are likely a bit worse than before (5 Damage 2 attacks vs 4 Damage D6 attacks) but the Talon is much better. 

Warsong Revenant - unchanged. 

Branchwych - gets +1 to-hit and to-wound when wholly within 9" of a wood, her spell is now identical to the Warsongs' but with a casting value of 5 (hers used to do mortals on 6s, now it does them on 5s like the Warsong) and contrary to what we hoped she did not inherit the Branchwraith's Dryad summon. 

So the Branchwych seems like a discount Warsong as far as the mortal bomb potential, or even a cheeky addition to that combo if you use both a Spellportal and that new "cast through a wood" trait (i.e. Wych gets the trait, Warsong gets the Portal or vice-versa) to do both spells from afar. 

The Treelord seems pretty darn strong with the combo of forcing strikes last (especially as it looks like Hunters of the Heartlands is disappearing?) and then disabling pile-in moves on top of a much better base profile. I think it's got good mileage for sure. The Ancient feels questionable - 100 points more than a Treelord (and 80 more than it used to be) gets you a single cast/unbind and one free wood as well as access to traits and artifacts, though it loses that pile-in stopper. I'll try the immortal build on him but other than being a big tarpit (which would be dirty in Winterleaf) I'm not sure how else to use it. Durthu will likely be the more worthwhile recipient of traits. 

Edit: I ran some quick numbers on unbuffed Treelords/Ancients comparing their old and new damage stats, so keeping in mind they have far better bracketing, the Treelord is consistently hitting ~8/10 unsaved against a 4+ save baseline whereas before it was a coin toss but probably levelled out to ~6 unsaved, and the Ancient does the same whereas it used to only average a paltry ~4 unsaved before (and lost 33% effectiveness after suffering just 3 Wounds!) 

Adding the Archrevenant - got an extra wound, lost 1 damage at the spear and the spite sacrifice. Shield now give a ward of 4+ or an extra attack. Still have the +1 attack at combat CA and gives +1 to wound for Kurnoths 12" of her. Looks pretty good! 

I'm a sad for the TLA, I not sure if the increase in his damage is enough to justify his lost utility in the lost of the CA and huge points increase. The Treelord, specially in Oakenbrow should be pretty good tough.

The Wych having the same bomb as the warsong is interesting. Specially with spellslinger, gnarlroot and the rerolling season its not hard to build around them even if you don't want to expend the 305 points in the warsong.

[Jaskier]

I tried a Treelord recently with my Living City and he just felt so...pathetic. Now though? The Talon change alone makes him so much scarier as instead of usually just doing one wound now you're most likely doing six unsaved with it.

Just going off what we know so far, the Lady of Vines also looks incredible - she counts for all the Season of War rules (for example, if you fail her spell, she can still project a 6+ ward aura) and Dryads are extremely tough next to her (-1 to be wounded is better than their old +1 save.) 

Something I noticed is that Sylvaneth can shoot out of woods freely but importantly still benefit from the LOS blocking. Add the Archies' +1 to-wound bubble and I'm pretty sure those bow Kurnoth builds some people play around with just got a lot (like, A LOT) better, especially in Heartwood where they are Battleline and get +1 to-hit against three units of your choice. 

[Freejack02]

So 1 annoying thing I noticed about the new Tree Rev scroll is that the weapon options are no longer equal for the Scion - previously the glaive did double the damage of the blade, but the blade had double the attacks (balanced). Now, the glaive still does double the damage, but they both have the same 3 attacks... pretty disappointing for someone who modeled my Scions with blades.

 

[Jaskier]

Huh, that's actually a stealth buff for them if you used the glaive, as now you have 3 instead of 2 attacks with it. Neat! 

[Warbossironteef]

I know full info isn't out, but just to give you an idea of what some lists could look like. 

Two hug hammers in Durthu and KH. Amazing support from Warsong and Rev and Seekes are all around amazing units. They might honestly be better than KH but I love rend 3. If Warsong is the same and has access to entire lore, ohhh buddy, her. with Gem is nuttttssss. Guys, let's gooooo!!!

Heartwood:

Durthu- ethereal, +d3 attacks

Warsong - Ves Gem

Arch Rev

10x dyrads

10x dyrads 

6x Kurnoth with Scythes 

3x Seekers 

3x Seekers

[Jaskier]

Another little detail; while Alarielle isn't a Warmaster, she gained the Totem keyword and thus can issue commands 18" away! 

[Lanoss]

Any sign of Drycha?

[Arzalyn]

2 minutes ago, Lanoss said:

Any sign of Drycha?

Not yet, buts it's a matter of time now until the video reviews of the book appears.

1 hour ago, Warbossironteef said:

I know full info isn't out, but just to give you an idea of what some lists could look like. 

Two hug hammers in Durthu and KH. Amazing support from Warsong and Rev and Seekes are all around amazing units. They might honestly be better than KH but I love rend 3. If Warsong is the same and has access to entire lore, ohhh buddy, her. with Gem is nuttttssss. Guys, let's gooooo!!!

Heartwood:

Durthu- ethereal, +d3 attacks

Warsong - Ves Gem

Arch Rev

10x dyrads

10x dyrads 

6x Kurnoth with Scythes 

3x Seekers 

3x Seekers

I like this list, I could even see making the kurnoths 2x3 units, you loose a little of power with the Archrevenant buff, but you could make two tag-teams of 3 kurnoths + 10 dryads for objectives grabbing.

[Freejack02]

Alarielle's new Lifebloom self-resurrect can only be attempted once per battle, correct? Or is it only able to succeed once per battle? The former makes it makes it a really swingy mechanic.

Relevant text:

"In addition, once per battle, at the end of your hero phase, if this unit has been destroyed, you can roll a dice and add the number of the current battle round to the roll. On a 6+, you can set up this unit on the battlefield wholly within 12" of an overgrown terrain feature, yadda yadda..."

[Aeryenn]

I disagree that tree-revenants extra sounds doesn't change their usefulness. It does, a lot. I remember how I argued with some of you about how they needed a boost. Now they did and they are much better both as a chaff and objective holders. 2 wounds double the chance of survival. If they can tie an enemy for one extra turn because he damaged them 9 wounds or they can withstand a missle attack while holding an objective it was well worth it.

It's sad Ancient Treelord will stand on the shelf for another three years but thankfully we have many hero options. It seems silly he's at almost the same price as Durthu is. I'm not sure if I would take him even at his old price when Lady of the Vines is in the roster.

Alarielle's resurrection is a fine addon. Do you think she's worth her price? And what about KH with bows? How do they compare to Gossamid Archers?

Any new info on endless spells?

I'm not sure how I feel about this battletome. Everything seems a bit better but also many units suffer from a price hike.

They fixed KH with bows Huntmaster. He has an extra attack with the bow now.

Edited June 18, 2022 by Aeryenn

[frostfire]

Warsong no longer knows all the spells of the Deepwood Lore?

[lastlostboy]

7 hours ago, Jaskier said:

Warsong Revenant - unchanged

He got another Unbind and 3 more Attacks.
Also lost the Wyldwood Spell und the Warscroll which might get relevant for Living City Armies.

2 hours ago, Freejack02 said:

Alarielle's new Lifebloom self-resurrect can only be attempted once per battle, correct?

Yes. You can wait battlerounds for improving the chances tho.


Biggest disappointment for me is TLA being only 1 cast, 1 unbind for 360 points. More punchiness is nice but we have enough big trees for punchiness we didn't really need another one...
Second biggest disappointment is the Arch-Revenant still buffing Kurnoth Hunters not Revenants. :(

[Jaskier]

Man reads book is up; both of Drycha's bug profiles have been streamlined to 3+ 3+ -1 Rend, and her Talons are also 3+ 3+ -2 2D but now only have 4 attacks. However...she no longer degrades at all! She also gives +1 to wound instead of re-rolls 1s to Spites now. The range of her Flitterfuries dropped to 12", but given the other buffs and the faction she's in, I think it's ok - it will undeniably make it harder for her to snipe heroes from afar, but her overall output is way up and not degrading means she doesn't lose a lot of output quickly like she used to. She's also a Warmaster like the Lady of Vines. Overall, I'm very happy with her! 

[Ragnar72]

15 minutes ago, Jaskier said:

Man reads book is up; both of Drycha's bug profiles have been streamlined to 3+ 3+ -1 Rend, and her Talons are also 3+ 3+ -2 2D but now only have 4 attacks. However...she no longer degrades at all! She also gives +1 to wound instead of re-rolls 1s to Spites now. The range of her Flitterfuries dropped to 12", but given the other buffs and the faction she's in, I think it's ok - it will undeniably make it harder for her to snipe heroes from afar, but her overall output is way up and not degrading means she doesn't lose a lot of output quickly like she used to. She's also a Warmaster like the Lady of Vines. Overall, I'm very happy with her! 

Only 4 attacks att all ?

 

[Sprues&Brews]

Hey guys,

 

Our full Sylvaneth deep dive and review is live here:

https://spruesandbrews.com/2022/06/18/new-battletome-sylvaneth-2022-review-warhammer-age-of-sigmar-2/

[Jaskier]

14 minutes ago, Ragnar72 said:

Only 4 attacks att all ?

 

Her Flitterfuries/Squirmlings still have 10 Attacks each (and you can increase one to 20 per her mood) just like before, it's just her Talons went from 6 to 4 Attacks, though they now hit on 3s and she doesn't degrade so it's a bit of a wash really for them. The Flitterfuries getting +1 to-hit and the Squirmlings getting +1 to-wound and -1 Rend are the big improvements for her output. The best way to think of her is she gets 30 Attacks 3+ 3+ -1 1 Damage with 6s to-hit dealing mortal wounds and 4 Attacks 3+ 3+ -2 2 Damage each turn. If she's getting into combat and you expect her to stay there it's definitely going to be preferable to set the Squirmlings for her mood so that you still get 20 Attacks in combat in your opponents' turn. 

If you stop and think that she can now get boosted to 2s to-hit for both shooting and combat and wounds on 3s with everything with at least -1 Rend (and again, no degrading) it really starts to dawn on you just how scary she is now!

Edited June 18, 2022 by Jaskier

[Izotzuhure]

Lady of Vines in Gnarlroot: Teleport with Lauchon in front of the enemy army, release the Purple Sun (reroll if necessary), then teleport away in the movement phase. 

Edited June 18, 2022 by Izotzuhure

[Mirage8112]

11 minutes ago, Izotzuhure said:

Lady of Vines in Gnarlroot: Teleport with Lauchon in front of the enemy army, release the Purple Sun (reroll if necessary), then teleport away in the movement phase. 

Or take it on a warsong by with spellsinger and launch it from a Wyldwood across the map. No need to teleport 

[acr0ssth3p0nd]

Man, after the token changes to the tree-revs that don't significantly help them in their role, I was a bit worried about Drycha - glad to see her come out of this so well!

[Jaskier]

Someone's done some rough maths on the damage output of a bunch of our units, and the results are a bit eye-opening;

1) Point-for-point, Spite Revenants are our nastiest melee unit.
2) It's close but the Revenant-Seekers actually hit harder against all save brackets than the Spiterider Lancers. The strength of the Lancers' strike-first effect obviously balances this out, especially given the Seekers can resurrect one of their own or a Kurnoth every turn.
3) The cavalry aren't quite as potent as Kurnoths, as expected, but they aren't too far behind. 
4) Scythe Kurnoths lose out to Sword Hunters even with their Rend 3, but will obviously shine in bigger units. 
5) The Gossamids are quite respectable, having comparable output to melee Kurnoths, and far outshining ranged Kurnoths. 
 

I'm actually really unsure as to which cavalry variant I'll go for as I'd assumed the Spiteriders had the higher output. The Seekers being able to guarantee self-resurrect a model (or pair up with Kurnoths to resurrect them) is incredible, but strikes first - especially considering how hard most units can hit back these days - is such a fantastic ability to have too. I'm leaning towards the Seekers simply because they seem stupidly tough to shift (seriously, it's a 15 wound 4+ save unit that heals all wounds if it kills a model, Rallies on a 5+ and resurrects a dead model at the end of each friendly movement phase - that is nuts!)

[Mirage8112]

22 minutes ago, acr0ssth3p0nd said:

Man, after the token changes to the tree-revs that don't significantly help them in their role, I was a bit worried about Drycha - glad to see her come out of this so well!

I’m actually quite happy with the changes. They are far more resilient and with some foresight have gotten a fair bit better at their role.