AoS 2 - Beasts of Chaos Discussion

[Salyx]

5 hours ago, Frowny said:

Why are people so down on gors? Even for a cheap screen/sacrificial target. The 4+ save makes them sturdier than ungors per point. They also hit slightly harder per model. At only 10 points that seems reasonable for some uses

Thinking 10 man squads where you should be able to get all into melee if needed, so the base size doesn't matter.

Well, Ungor with Blades and Shield fight a bit better than Gor, because it is easier to get all of them into close combat. 

However, I was wondering too, why People do not like them. They have a better save, better Leadership, which perhaps lets them keep a unit a turn longer into Position. On top of that, they have larger bases, which means that they can block more Board space. 

For only 10 points, this is a good Deal. In Desolating Beastherd, you will always have the free slots for Gor. 

Edited September 13, 2020 by Salyx

[Ganigumo]

8 hours ago, Frowny said:

Why are people so down on gors? Even for a cheap screen/sacrificial target. The 4+ save makes them sturdier than ungors per point. They also hit slightly harder per model. At only 10 points that seems reasonable for some uses

Thinking 10 man squads where you should be able to get all into melee if needed, so the base size doesn't matter.

I'm running a couple 10 mans in the army i'm painting right now.

People are generally down on them because ungors are better in any size over 10, and in 10 man units they're pretty comparable, but for a suicide chaff unit ungors are 10 points cheaper.

I think gors have some pros over ungors in 10 man units though.

[El Antiguo Guardián]

13 hours ago, Frowny said:

Why are people so down on gors? Even for a cheap screen/sacrificial target. The 4+ save makes them sturdier than ungors per point. They also hit slightly harder per model. At only 10 points that seems reasonable for some uses

Thinking 10 man squads where you should be able to get all into melee if needed, so the base size doesn't matter.

In my opinion... because ungors are better screens and better for sacrifices, and bestigors are better for fighting.

[TheArborealWalrus]

14 hours ago, Frowny said:

Why are people so down on gors? Even for a cheap screen/sacrificial target. The 4+ save makes them sturdier than ungors per point. They also hit slightly harder per model. At only 10 points that seems reasonable for some uses

I rather like gors as a screen, but then I had a khorne list I called "the gorapult" back when bloodstokers could buff our units. There are things that gors are better at. 1: living. better bravery and better saves. 2: screening. their base sizes are a service in this regard. 

Unfortunately there are areas they're worse in. 1: damage. between base size and having the exact same weapon profile, they're harder to use then ungors. 2: pt cost. 10 points isn't much in the grand scheme of things but when you're looking for sacrifices the better survivability and bigger base make them worse for it.  When you want something to purely die, ungors are better.  Which considering usual brayherd strategy, means it's usually them. 3: $ cost. Gors are in a seperate box often ignored in stores, where the ungors come in the start collecting. This has most people having 20 ungor/bestigor vs having to go looking to find gors. These very same units are also the ones competing with gors for space. 4: battalion slots. Now I could be mistaken, (I don't feel like fishing out my book right now) but I believe ungors are often given their own slot in most battalions. Certainly in desolating beastherd at least. Usually its ungor raiders vs ungors, where the gors are competing with other main line units like bulls, bestigor, or dragon ogres. Those units are (pretty) good. The competition for our gors is stiff.

I feel the unimpressive stats, easier acquisition of the ungors, and harder battalion space makes the reasonable gors get left behind. All of our stuff needs a rework , but gors are in need of more help. But enough negativity, end on a good note! They're nice looking models considering chaos marauders came out not too long before them. I dig most of their vibe.

Hope that helps!

For Morghur!

[Salyx]

1 hour ago, TheArborealWalrus said:

I rather like gors as a screen, but then I had a khorne list I called "the gorapult" back when bloodstokers could buff our units. There are things that gors are better at. 1: living. better bravery and better saves. 2: screening. their base sizes are a service in this regard. 

Unfortunately there are areas they're worse in. 1: damage. between base size and having the exact same weapon profile, they're harder to use then ungors. 2: pt cost. 10 points isn't much in the grand scheme of things but when you're looking for sacrifices the better survivability and bigger base make them worse for it.  When you want something to purely die, ungors are better.  Which considering usual brayherd strategy, means it's usually them. 3: $ cost. Gors are in a seperate box often ignored in stores, where the ungors come in the start collecting. This has most people having 20 ungor/bestigor vs having to go looking to find gors. These very same units are also the ones competing with gors for space. 4: battalion slots. Now I could be mistaken, (I don't feel like fishing out my book right now) but I believe ungors are often given their own slot in most battalions. Certainly in desolating beastherd at least. Usually its ungor raiders vs ungors, where the gors are competing with other main line units like bulls, bestigor, or dragon ogres. Those units are (pretty) good. The competition for our gors is stiff.

I feel the unimpressive stats, easier acquisition of the ungors, and harder battalion space makes the reasonable gors get left behind. All of our stuff needs a rework , but gors are in need of more help. But enough negativity, end on a good note! They're nice looking models considering chaos marauders came out not too long before them. I dig most of their vibe.

Hope that helps!

For Morghur!

 

You are making good points here. 

Your First two downside points are absolutely correct, although you gain a lot for These 10 points. In Terrain they get a 3+ save and you can Not only use them for Screening, but also for charging and clipping only 1 Model into 1/2 inch to keep a unit in place or prevent pile-ins. Depending on the enemy, Gors can survive that for a bit longer than Ungor 

The cost are no issue for Former Fantasy players, because they used to be so good in Fantasy that every Chaos Player had a bunch of them. However, for AoS only players, you are right. 

Bataillon slots: They do not complete that much for Bataillon slots. 

In Desolatigf Beastherd, they share an extra Spot of 1-3 with Chariots, in Brass Despoilers, they complete with Bestigor and Bullgor-however, there are 8 slots, so enough space. In Phantasmagoria of fate, they share a slot with Bestigor, Tzaangor and Ungor. That is a stiff competition. Nevertheless, it is still 9 slots. 

In Pestilent Throng, the competition gets stiffer, because the compete with Ungor and Bestigor for seven slots, so After Ungor, I would only have 1-2 slots left for Bestigor

Depraved Drove... Ok, there is not really a space for them in six slots consisting of Centigor, Ungor and Chariots. 

However, in These bataillons you could still switch 1* Ungor with 1* Gor. If you want it, they can gave their place in every army. 

[Maddpainting]

22 hours ago, Frowny said:

Why are people so down on gors? Even for a cheap screen/sacrificial target. The 4+ save makes them sturdier than ungors per point. They also hit slightly harder per model. At only 10 points that seems reasonable for some uses

Thinking 10 man squads where you should be able to get all into melee if needed, so the base size doesn't matter.

B.c Ungors are cheaper for the same thing, and from most experience whatever can kill 10 ungors kills 10 gors, so why spend 10pts more? Also the 4+ save is only better 1 to 1 units, when you are talking about taking 4-6 units of them Ungors being cheaper really adds up, 5 Ungors vs 5 Gors gives you enough points for a 6th unit of something else. 

Also really importantly, the +1sv from Shield is only in melee, yes you can be a 3+ in cover but not against shooting, which is normal to take now. DoT, Lumineth, OBR, Skaven, Sylvaneth, Seraphon, CoS, etc..

Now with that said, they are still fine for chaff to run and stand. The biggest problem with Gors are they are the same profile as Ungors which they should be 3+ to wound and +1 base attack, so they are in between Ungors and Bestigors, not as killy but can do some damage,s o taking 3 of them for 80pts each and then a couple Ungor chaff units with a couple Bestigors should be the normal, but htats not really good right now and serves no point.

Edited September 13, 2020 by Maddpainting

[Myrdin]

19 hours ago, Maddpainting said:

The biggest problem with Gors are they are the same profile as Ungors which they should be 3+ to wound and +1 base attack

This.
I`ve been saying this for a while now. Gors need to be half naked Bestigors profile wise (since that is what they literally are, just young less seasoned Beastmen who havent earned enough loot yet). 2A 3+ to Wound, and they can go back to 80. Their ability needs to proc on 15+ models instead of 20+, heck even on 10+, so you have some leeway when loosing models to random nonsense. If this was the profile I would be happy to play all my..... what... 60 gors, that never see table in more than a single MSU battle line filler unit at a time ?

Edited September 14, 2020 by Myrdin

[Ganigumo]

3 minutes ago, Myrdin said:

This.
I`ve been saying this for a while now. Gors need to be half naked Bestigors profile wise. 2A 3+ to Wound, and they can go back to 80. Their ability needs to proc on 15 models instead of 20, so you have some leeway when loosing models to random nonsense. If this was the profile I would be happy to play all my..... what... 60 gors, that never see table in more than a single MSU battle line filler unit at a time ?

Another way to take them could be to add more durability, changing the horde bonus to 10+ and giving rerolls on saves, or something similar.

[Skreech Verminking]

24 minutes ago, Ganigumo said:

Another way to take them could be to add more durability, changing the horde bonus to 10+ and giving rerolls on saves, or something similar.

Yeah, but that really doesn’t fit the lore.

 

[Popisdead]

On 9/2/2020 at 1:04 PM, TheArborealWalrus said:

I'm presently borrowing my local hobby guru's dragon ogres, but I want to replace them with my own eventually. I've seen plenty of shaggoth alternatives but not really any of their smaller kin (understandable since they're much better than their pappi's model). Does anyone have recommendations for less expensive alternatives? Needing $240 to replace them hurts me on the inside.

Have you considered Darkwalkers?  Ambush the Warherd, move up with the DrOgurs.  It took me a bit but I saw the benefit of the 3-man after a bit.  I just picked up my second Shaggoth (i gave my spare to a buddy who was happy to return it since I would paint it haha).  My DrOgurs are all metal, half 5th ed drogur, half 5th ed river troll.  and looking at eBay,.. people want mortgage-level prices for old crappy models.  Guess it will take me a while to build up more than 6 DrOgurs.

On 9/8/2020 at 2:09 PM, Sam24 said:

Having just built 120 ungors, I would. But I have to say, they are amazing. You can't get the poses wrong - they're hilarious. I love them. That one confused head is an absolute gem. Made me laugh every time I'd finished building. Fantastic. 

Having just built the last 15 to get my tally to 120 i concur with poses wrong.  I used some old Bretonnian lance arms to make standards and old HE lances as well.  You can go to town converting them up cause man,.. after the first 60 you get board fast haha.  10 of my Raiders use Shadow Warrior bitz.  Helmets and all.

On 9/10/2020 at 5:29 PM, TheArborealWalrus said:

1: 3  on hand is enough for most games. I've only ran out of my pool of 3 spawn once.

I've found the same.  1 on the board and have more backing you up.  With Gavepspawn you are okay with your cheap heroes dying and still tying up the enemy.  You can also just make Spawn out of anything.  someone locally has terrible 2003 era Chaos Ogres?  Find the old Mutation sprue and build them up from that, plop them on a 50 mm and your'e done.  One guy locally built his out of spare bitz and Green Stuff and he has 15 (for 40k).

On 9/11/2020 at 6:35 AM, 5kaven5lave said:

Does anyone have any top tips for making the most of the Ungor Raiders pre-game move? I know it’s great but I lack the tactical brain to really make use of it. 

6" up, 10-man.  I wish Raiders were,.. slightly better in some way, or maybe got a Horde bonus. 

On 9/12/2020 at 1:18 PM, Frowny said:

Why are people so down on gors? Even for a cheap screen/sacrificial target. The 4+ save makes them sturdier than ungors per point. They also hit slightly harder per model. At only 10 points that seems reasonable for some uses

Thinking 10 man squads where you should be able to get all into melee if needed, so the base size doesn't matter.

I think 10-man are the only real good use for the board space.  Base size matters when counting objectives.  32 mm doesn't fit around as well as 25 for model count.

I think the Gor issue speaks of how the book was a good attempt and a miss again.  Warherd used to have a better command and it was scaled down.  Gors used to have more attacks and a neat ability and it was removed.  Since 2003 Beastmen/Beasts of Chaos have generally been sub-par with focussed builds and in general very few units get used.  In 6th ed the Tzeentch Superherd was really popular, or Khorne MSU minotaurs.  In 7th it was blocks of gors and bestigors or the minobus.  right now it's a WArherd like ambushing (not great) or the Ungor/Bestigor build.  GW seems to really have a problem building a cohesive book for the army.  

 

[Myrdin]

1 hour ago, Popisdead said:

I think the Gor issue speaks of how the book was a good attempt and a miss again.  Warherd used to have a better command and it was scaled down.  Gors used to have more attacks and a neat ability and it was removed.  Since 2003 Beastmen/Beasts of Chaos have generally been sub-par with focussed builds and in general very few units get used.  In 6th ed the Tzeentch Superherd was really popular, or Khorne MSU minotaurs.  In 7th it was blocks of gors and bestigors or the minobus.  right now it's a WArherd like ambushing (not great) or the Ungor/Bestigor build.  GW seems to really have a problem building a cohesive book for the army.  

 

This. The problem I see is that rather than go with the CoS route, where most units are good and its up to the player to choose which ones they wish to use in what combination, it seems like with BoC they are adapting a hand holding attitude of force pushing you into what they want you to play, by nerfing things that should really not be nerfed when compared to other nonsense from different armies.

Cos has 64 unit profiles and yet only few are truly considered "bad", most of those which are worse and less used are just "meh" but very few are actually bad. With BoC there are several "bad" options, and many "meh" options.
I think they need to let go of the reins, follow the original intent and design for the units they had envisioned, make the profiles solid with some synergies open to play around and leave it to the player to choose what and in which combinations they want to play with, rather then forcing it onto them via skewered unit profiles and bad point cost management. Sure some people will try to cheese the ever-living goat out of it if allowed to, but its easier to trim down the power level for balancing once the units are established as fully fledged and useful in their own right, rather than blindly toss them from one side to the other, never letting them settle on what they are actually supposed to be.

And again, it can be done. CoS is a good example and the new Orruks and Ogors which are also a WFB styled big bloated armybooks worked out rather nicely. Heck Ogor power level is very high in general. So it absolutely can be done.

I wish for the next rewrite the person in charge of it would be someone who actually loves Beastmen, understands both their gamestyle a lore and can take what we have now and flesh it out into perfection. (Plus new BLord, Shaggoth and Centigor models with updated rules reflecting those models would be nice).

Honestly the biggest ouch we currently have is the loss of Primal Fury (this rule I think was overlooked in the AoS rewrite as the prime thing that kept BoC going and be somewhat competitive army in the older times, not the Ambush, but this) and very pathetic Ambush, that once again falls flat on how its supposed to be working and utilized by Beastmen players.

Edited September 15, 2020 by Myrdin

[Sauriv]

2 hours ago, Popisdead said:

You can also just make Spawn out of anything.

This is what i did, as a fun project and to have a spawn that looked like he once was a brayherd/warherd character. 

Body is made up with sprue pieces, glue and green stuff and a bunch of leftover pieces from the different kits. 

The face for example is an upside-down Cygor mouth i think. 

Edited September 15, 2020 by Sauriv

[Homer72]

This is a very cool conversion. Great!

[Popisdead]

19 hours ago, Sauriv said:

This is what i did, as a fun project and to have a spawn that looked like he once was a brayherd/warherd character. 

Body is made up with sprue pieces, glue and green stuff and a bunch of leftover pieces from the different kits. 

The face for example is an upside-down Cygor mouth i think. 

That's clever.  I like it!

[Popisdead]

20 hours ago, Myrdin said:

This. The problem I see is that rather than go with the CoS route, where most units are good and its up to the player to choose which ones they wish to use in what combination,

Cos has 64 unit profiles and yet only few are truly considered "bad", most of those which are worse and less used are just "meh" but very few are actually bad. With BoC there are several "bad" options, and many "meh" options.

Honestly the biggest ouch we currently have is the loss of Primal Fury (this rule I think was overlooked in the AoS rewrite as the prime thing that kept BoC going and be somewhat competitive army in the older times, not the Ambush, but this) and very pathetic Ambush, that once again falls flat on how its supposed to be working and utilized by Beastmen players.

Comparing to CoS isn't terrible.  I play Wanderers and each of those units became unique and a better version of what they were replacing.  EG became pricy but good at defence and offence.  Sisters of the Watch are finally the AoS version of Glade Guard Fantasy had in 6th ed.  Wild Riders aren't the hand grenades of late-8th ed but they do the dmg especially in numbers.  that's literally just the Wanderer part.  And their Ambush is FAR more effective than non-Darkwalker Brayherd ambush.  Also the mechanisms for allying in to Cities is REALLY good.  Why didn't GW do that for BoC?  make allying in chaos easier than just 4 Battalions.  

I try not to be salty but man, GW just screws it up so hard with BoC. 

However I'm not certain I would want Primal Fury back.  It seemed like a Phil Kelly bandage after they fired Andy Hoare.  I'm not sure how they would implement it either.  rr failed hits would still make certain units better (Bestigors) and not help Warherd as knowing GW they wouldn't give it out blanket.  

One thing I think GW totally missed is the lack of character or big models.  They should have made Kholek or a reborn Krakenrok and finally make the Shaggoth as big as a mountain.  And as destructing.  S6 Axe, some sort of stomping around or juggernaut rule.  We can all turn our old metal Shaggoth's into regular DOs and buy a new kit.  The new Gargants show GW can go that direction.  

[Myrdin]

43 minutes ago, Popisdead said:

However I'm not certain I would want Primal Fury back.  It seemed like a Phil Kelly bandage after they fired Andy Hoare.  I'm not sure how they would implement it either.  rr failed hits would still make certain units better (Bestigors) and not help Warherd as knowing GW they wouldn't give it out blanket.  

 

I agree on most, yes I think they should have gone with Shaggoth being a Greater Demon equivalent monster for BoC. Lore wise it is pretty much that just in a physical body. Also regarding the allying, I find it super boring that we cant ally in anything but we can "courtesan" ourselves out to all the God Armies en mass. Would have been nice if we could add 1 unit from other Chaos factions per 3/4 of ours. And the limit could increase for units of the God factions if we run their specific God battalion.

But I wanted to address this point specifically. The problem is, while it might have been a bandage, it was what kept Beastmen going back then.

Personally I think it can be done, albeit in a different fashion. My two MAJOR fixes for BoC that I would do, before touching any unit profiles or price points would be:

Primal Fury (can be renamed but why not keep it?): All BoC units gain +1To Hit rolls in the turn they successfully charged or were charged by an enemy unit.

Yes a blanked +1 to Hit. Because thats what why struggle with the most. And since Ogres got a permanent blanket +1 to 90% of their army, I really dont think it would be such a big deal. If necessary it can have the "does not apply for units with Monster keyword" limit, (so no 2+ to Hit Ghorghon, although i personally dont think the limitation is necessary) and only for one turn. Bam huge issue we currently have, not gone but at least severely lessened.

Ambush: As it is, but > Ambush units can deploy up till turn 4 (why should Shadow Warriors be able to outambush us I do not see).  And more importantly: With each subsequent turn, the maximum range you can ambush away from enemy units is reduced by 1 up till turn 4 and the ambushing unit gains +1 to its charge range. Deploying via border edges still applies, no popping from the middle of the table and such. All units with BoC keyword can Ambush (yes ALL so warhound, pigs, cocaktrice, etc and Darkwalkers would merely improve further upon it)

So turn 2 you can Ambush up to 8" away from an enemy and gain +1 to charge for the unit coming out of ambush. Turn 3 up to 7" inches and you gain +2 to charge. Turn 4 you get to ambush up to 6" away from the enemy and get +3" to charge rolls. And while it might sound a bit too good, you would still very rarely ambush a unit for more than 2 turns, other than Summons, since our units are quite fast and dont required the Ambush at all... and thats the problem, not requiring it at all, when its supposed to be the core mechanic of the army. But it would totally play into the vibe of the Beastmen army getting ever closer and slowly encircling their enemies in a deadly trap. Thematic, and fairly fun change that would make Ambush actually rewarding for once.

If its supposed to be the main rule, make it feel like it has impact. Allow me to ambush bunch of Cockatrice and warhounds and whatnot.

Those would be my two tweaks to the Beastmen, unless of course we are going for a complete rework, identity change and overhaul in which case I can easily come up with something more unique. But if we are going by what was, and is, then this is what I would do. Then some profile changes, price changes and a full rework on the Battalions, but more importantly Greatfrays, where keeping but fixing the current 3 while adding at least 2 more would be a thing.

But thats just my take on it

Edited September 16, 2020 by Myrdin

[TheArborealWalrus]

So I think everyone is forgetting something. Our book was basically the first one to get a terrain feature and one of (if not the first) of the  books to have faction rules that did anything mentionable.  Before us the best faction ability was various death armies'  6+ shrug. (I think Nurgle was out at that time, but they're rather on par with us, mostly (their units' warscrolls got buffs *sigh* ). So I guess the point is the problem is less a lack of love for the faction and more we're old and don't have either the better units (dok ) or  versatile special rules (khorne (I know they got a new codex, but I've never had any trouble competing with them even against the "more powerful books")) enough to keep up. Ours was an experiment and now we're waiting in the back for our love again. 

I think ambush needs to be more flexible. Make it on a 2+ they listen and come out if you want them to each turn they're in ambush. This gives the chaotic nature of the beasts a little shine (and a slight nerf) but boosts it so it feels like you get them when YOU want them. Almost like an ambush.  Warherd ... their faction ability is bad. Healing is nice, but it's  not enough. Some "on the charge" bonus would be an excellent call. Not an ogre repeat either. I'm thinking give them that re-roll hit rolls ability (primal fury) to make up for their bad hit roll. Heck, maybe make that a universal special rule. In which case the healing might be enough. Dragon ogres ability is nice and cool, but doesn't feel fluffy. Goes faster because of storm? Kind of silly. I'd like something that would make them  feel more capable of being a standalone army if you wanted to. Not sure what ... AOE lightning? A powerful once per game effect? Healing fits the fluff, maybe a natural allegiance heal? Like a passive or once per game one?  I'm just spitballing here. What are your thoughts? (of course they could just boost our warscrolls, but we want to be given a reason to use them in both our army and others. It's a balancing act because you are balancing for 5 armies not 1 with this book) Also a new shaggoth would be amazing! 

23 hours ago, Popisdead said:

Have you considered Darkwalkers?  Ambush the Warherd, move up with the DrOgurs.  It took me a bit but I saw the benefit of the 3-man after a bit.  I just picked up my second Shaggoth (i gave my spare to a buddy who was happy to return it since I would paint it haha).  My DrOgurs are all metal, half 5th ed drogur, half 5th ed river troll.  and looking at eBay,.. people want mortgage-level prices for old crappy models.  Guess it will take me a while to build up more than 6 DrOgurs.

I'm a big fan of the look of the new dragon ogres, but I would really prefer if they went the way of the skullcrushers. $100 for 6. big investment, big reward. I've found 3d prints of armanite destroyers that look like they'd work except I'm pretty sure they're cavalry sized rather than dragon ogre sized. Haven't had the spare $$ to be willing to get some yet. 

https://www.etsy.com/listing/847714383/armanite-destroyer-3d-printed-resin?ga_order=most_relevant&ga_search_type=all&ga_view_type=gallery&ga_search_query=armanite+destroyer&ref=sr_gallery-1-5&organic_search_click=1&pro=1

Another local hobby guru gave me these mierce mini ogres that have weird toddler legs to convert into dragon ogres. Remove the weird baby legs and off they go ... once I get the lizard part. Yes, the "collector item" syndrome. An eternal problem. Darkwalkers isn't a terrible idea. It'd help the entire army hit them all at once. I'm not sure they'd have the juice to actually take the enemy out though. Certainly scare them, but this army NEEDS to crush its foes. It doesn't have the numbers to take objectives by anything but force. That's why I went with gavespawn. The command point ability has seen the big minotaur blocks wipe out entire enemy flanks. I'm not even cheesing it. I play it as a one per unit ability in anticipation of the nerf. (plus one of the only guys with a table would probably be very upset if I did spam it) Spawning spawns is also fun and helpful. Darkwalkers is something to consider though, I'm just more versed in Khorne wave tactics. Just as my opponent feels like he's gotten the ogres under control and thinks he'll win, the bulls hit and obliterate his weakened line. (thus far that's how it's gone) ... I'm rambling at this point ... 

Cheers! For Morghur!

Edited September 16, 2020 by TheArborealWalrus

[Myrdin]

Those Armite models are really really nice

Also good thing about Mierce mini, while their regualrd prices are higher than GW, they do 50% off discount quite regularly. Stuff like buy one unit,  get one for free and such makes it really worth being subscribed to their newsletter.

Thats how I picked up some of their Bestigors. They had 50% off for all metal range miniatures. Mierce mini is definitely a valid choice for us Beastmen players, especially with nice variety of types when you are bored of the cows/goats and horses we normally have and want to add some flavor (Rhinos, Elephants, Dromedars, Bearmen, and whatnot).

Edit: Just to forgot to mention, that the size of the Armite is not important. If you have the STl file you can adjust the % scale, so even if they are cavalry sized, you can easily upscale them before printing

Edited September 17, 2020 by Myrdin

[Popisdead]

On 9/16/2020 at 9:54 AM, Myrdin said:

 

Primal Fury (can be renamed but why not keep it?): All BoC units gain +1To Hit rolls in the turn they successfully charged or were charged by an enemy unit.

Yes a blanked +1 to Hit.

I think +1A per unit on a charge could do a lot.  I'm okay with the weapon skill values of Bestigors, Gors and Ungors (totally not okay with the values of Warherd since they have so few attacks).  So rather than better hit values, give them bonus attacks, give Gors +1A for 20, give them a chance to get another on the charge or from whatever.  Fluff-wise we really are a chaff garbage army.  Rules-wise that sort of works, points-wise I'm okay, we just lack some more cohesion.  it's like a 40-55% book that needs another look at so Warscrolls can get fixed.  It doesn't need to go back to being an Elite horde.  So I like your idea and direction.  

On 9/16/2020 at 10:46 AM, TheArborealWalrus said:

So I think everyone is forgetting something. Our book was basically the first one to get a terrain feature and one of (if not the first) of the  books to have faction rules that did anything mentionable.   

Cheers! For Morghur!

I guess Sylvaneth got the first terrain feature.  What we should be thankful for is having the best terrain feature.  Good lord,.. it just makes this army hard to deal with late stages as if you have 3-4 Ungors left they are sticking around.  Plus with the couple -1 rend spells and a plethora of attacks from ****** units,.. I always feel dying to ungors nad grots is the ultimate sin for a Stormcast or marine haha.

 

I'm such a fan of the classic DrOgurs I'm not sold on the new ones.  Oddly they were delayed an entire edition as well.  According to Hastings back in the WArseer days they were ready in 7th ed and came out in 8th.  Granted he also said he saw huge Centigor CADs so fingers crossed they come out some day.

[Myrdin]

10 hours ago, Popisdead said:

 huge Centigor CADs so fingers crossed they come out some day.

Whats that? Concept Art Design ?  

I would love new Centigors, the ones I converted from Chaos horses and Mierce miniature Beastmen are very nice and bulky (the MM Goat type Beastmen are slightly more bulky and tiny bit bigger than GW ones) for what they are, yet still give the vibe of a being swift on their feet (hooves). Only reason I dont play more of them is because the conversion process is slow and cumbersome. Still have a box of SoThorn waiting to be converted into female Centigors and somehow just cant get myself into the mood of doing it (admittedly I am spending more time with my CoS now, since BoC just isn't fun for me anymore due to the massive power gap with many armies that I face).  When I get the mood to kitbash I am trying to finish my Beastmen Demon Prince conversion (almost done!), and hash out the remaining 3 DragOgs with cold one heads.

Edited September 18, 2020 by Myrdin

[TheArborealWalrus]

19 hours ago, Popisdead said:

Centigor CADs

9 hours ago, Myrdin said:

Whats that? Concept Art Design

In my line of work CAD is computer aided drafting. Used to design ... well lots of things. Could be miniatures, could be the parts for a factory floor. I hadn't realised they had been using that tech back then. It makes sense now with their digitally sculpted minis. Cool.

For Morghur!

[Apok]

Greetings!

  I've been reading this topic for some time now, and I would like to thank You. All of Your posts are very educative and mighty helpful.

I'm a weekend AoS player, I played the Old WfB, and when the Old World went Kamboom! I've switched to other systems and companies. But my Army did not went on ebay but rather to the basement:) And in 2018 when BoC showed up I said "Wow! An army in AoS that I like actually:)".  And then my local group started playing, so I've rebased some models and joined them.  The game did not turned our garbage like half of the internet said and by any means it is not a kids game:)

  Ok, so Now that I've introduced myself, I would like to ask You for Help. In my local group we had Khorne, KO, and STD, and thanks to MSU and objective grabs I managed to keep toe to toe with my colleagues. BUT latlley we have some new kids on the block, namely Fyreslayers and Ghuls. And I have no idea how to compete with 3 units of 20 2 wound models who fight first and retaliate when I kill them :) I usually run a Desolating Beast herds, but I do not think it is valid anymore thanks to the territories being so small in some scenarios.

   Best regards,

 

[Salyx]

6 hours ago, Apok said:

Greetings!

  I've been reading this topic for some time now, and I would like to thank You. All of Your posts are very educative and mighty helpful.

I'm a weekend AoS player, I played the Old WfB, and when the Old World went Kamboom! I've switched to other systems and companies. But my Army did not went on ebay but rather to the basement:) And in 2018 when BoC showed up I said "Wow! An army in AoS that I like actually:)".  And then my local group started playing, so I've rebased some models and joined them.  The game did not turned our garbage like half of the internet said and by any means it is not a kids game:)

  Ok, so Now that I've introduced myself, I would like to ask You for Help. In my local group we had Khorne, KO, and STD, and thanks to MSU and objective grabs I managed to keep toe to toe with my colleagues. BUT latlley we have some new kids on the block, namely Fyreslayers and Ghuls. And I have no idea how to compete with 3 units of 20 2 wound models who fight first and retaliate when I kill them I usually run a Desolating Beast herds, but I do not think it is valid anymore thanks to the territories being so small in some scenarios.

   Best regards,

 

Nice to See a WHFB Player returning to AoS. Most of my Goats are from WHFB 6th Edition

Regarding Flesh Eater and Fyreslayer: They belong to the strongest armies in AoS currently. 

Whereas it is difficult to swarm both of These armies because of the sheer amount of models, who can even deepstrike, Beasts still have their teeth and claws. 

To me, Fyreslayers are the easier ones to deal with. Yes, they are strong, they are many and they are angry. However, they massively depend on their heroes. Hearthguard Berserker need a Hero in 10" or their 4+ shrug goes to a 6+. Their strike First is a command ability that needs a hero to use. So your task is to snipe enemy heroes. As Fyreslayers have many 5-wound-heroes and are Bad at dealing with magic, spells can be a good way to deal with heroes. A Taurus and a Pendulum are usually sufficient to Kill a small hero, Ungor can plink off a few wounds as well, a Chimera, or even better, some Cokatrice are really good at sniping heroes as well at the cost of Drops. So you stop them with your screen, try to Kill their heroes from afar and when there is no hero nearby, Charge and get the Gavespawn attack Machine going. That way, you should be able to Kill or decimate two of These 3 units during the game so that He can Not compete for Objective anymore. Furthermore, if He is storming your territory, he will have his back field Objectives unguarded. 

 

FEC is much harder to fight because they can summon more, faster and killier stuff than you. Killing their heroes is a good way to go, but it is really hard to Do that. They can be pretty resillient with Unholy Vitality and the chalice. The best you can do is to Kill all his Ghouls and claim the Objectives with your superior numbers. Meanwhile, you have to take care that He can only summon where you want him to. His summons have to be within 6" of the table edge and more than 9" away from the enemy. And last but not least: FEC's strongest units can fly, so you have to screen off Flyers as well. If you have a perfect positioning, a lot of Goats and a lot of luck you can deal with FEC. 

Edited September 21, 2020 by Salyx

[Chaos Shepard]

Another thing to keep in mind is the Bray Shaman's base spell "Devolve". Most people think you use it to pull support units closer to your line but I find it works better to pull their core units away from their support units. "Oh I see that unit is well supported by three heros, it would be a shame if they got a little blood thirsty and broke formation." I will often take a Balewind just increase my range for this spell.

[Apok]

Thank You!

  I've recently painted up some Enlightened and Skyfires, I currently have 6 on discs, 3 on foot and 3 Skyfires. Do You think that theses peculiar units can do work against these armies? Or is it better just to leave them on the shelf? Oh, and I have the TShaman for a little enforcing, but lack regular Tzaangors...

  Best regards,