AoS 2 - Slaves to Darkness / Darkoath Discussion

[Taffster]

3 minutes ago, Tasman said:

I suppose that you COUld look at it that way, at least for strictly StD, but to make it not available for the other factions tells me otherwise. The DP would be theonly demon summonable in this regard. All other demons need the corresponding type of points pertaining to marks. The DP is specifically mentioned in regard to Dark Apotheosis. I'm afraid that, until a battletome is released, StD will be unable to summon at all, unless marked.

I think you're right in that regard, I've pulled up the App now (looks like they've fixed a lot of the issues anyway) and the updated warscroll looks to have removed the Summon Spell, so Dark Apotheosis would indeed be the only way to bring one in. At least it's free I guess. 

[Tasman]

4 minutes ago, Taffster said:

I think you're right in that regard, I've pulled up the App now (looks like they've fixed a lot of the issues anyway) and the updated warscroll looks to have removed the Summon Spell, so Dark Apotheosis would indeed be the only way to bring one in. At least it's free I guess. 

Yeah. It's kinda cool that StD are the only faction that can, in effect summon one.

[amysrevenge]

Oh hey.  I dug the fun of Mark of the All-Favoured on a Daemon Prince last version, when you could cheekily swap marks as required every turn.  They buffed it now though, so you get all 4 marks all the time.  Tasty.

(Although it still isn't 100% clear how Daemon Princes work in a StD army - is there any other example in the game of a unit that doesn't have the keyword for the allegiance it is part of?)

[Taffster]

2 hours ago, amysrevenge said:

Oh hey.  I dug the fun of Mark of the All-Favoured on a Daemon Prince last version, when you could cheekily swap marks as required every turn.  They buffed it now though, so you get all 4 marks all the time.  Tasty.

(Although it still isn't 100% clear how Daemon Princes work in a StD army - is there any other example in the game of a unit that doesn't have the keyword for the allegiance it is part of?)

If you look at the Eye of the Gods allegiance ability in the GHB it implies that the DP is in fact a StD Hero, the way i interpret it anyway. Anyone else agree? Hopefully GW can clarify on this soon. 

But yes looking forward to pulling off some DP Mark of the All-Favoured shenanigans  

[Graftonianman]

Is it assumed that the mark of the all favored gives the Demon Prince (or chaos lord, etc) all of the effects on his warscroll? I could argue that it doesn’t. 

The mark of the all favored just says it gets those keywords. The warscrolls say to gain the keyword AND the effect. It’s different things adding key words. Adding the warscroll effects from the artifact can be inferred, but is not explicit. 

[Monly]

Thats a very good point, maybe in the new battletome that will be fixed? if not thats a pointless artefact...

[Agent of Chaos]

Its not pointless. With all four marks the Hero can benefit from multiple god buffs at the same time. E.g. you could buff a daemon prince with bloodsecrator for +1 Attack, another +1 Attack from the Glottkin, allow him to pile in and attack twice via a Keeper of Secrets, etc 

Granted that would be a wacky chaos grand alliance list but the possibility is there. 

[Infernalslayer]

2 minutes ago, Agent of Chaos said:

Its not pointless. With all four marks the Hero can benefit from multiple god buffs at the same time. E.g. you could buff a daemon prince with bloodsecrator for +1 Attack, another +1 Attack from the Glottkin, allow him to pile in and attack twice via a Keeper of Secrets, etc 

Granted that would be a wacky chaos grand alliance list but the possibility is there. 

If you go Grand Alliance Chaos though, you cannot take the "Mark of the All-Favoured" as it is a "Slaves to Darkness" artefact.

That would limit any possible buffs to the allies pool of a "Slaves to Darkness" allegiance which is 400 points of allies in a 2000 points army.

In my opinion that would make it a very weak artefact indeed, unless it does unlock for the bearer any mark specific abilities in his warscroll. 

[Monly]

4 hours ago, Infernalslayer said:

If you go Grand Alliance Chaos though, you cannot take the "Mark of the All-Favoured" as it is a "Slaves to Darkness" artefact.

That would limit any possible buffs to the allies pool of a "Slaves to Darkness" allegiance which is 400 points of allies in a 2000 points army.

In my opinion that would make it a very weak artefact indeed, unless it does unlock for the bearer any mark specific abilities in his warscroll. 

Another good point I never thought...

[Kaleb Daark]

23 hours ago, Graftonianman said:

Is it assumed that the mark of the all favored gives the Demon Prince (or chaos lord, etc) all of the effects on his warscroll? I could argue that it doesn’t. 

The mark of the all favored just says it gets those keywords. The warscrolls say to gain the keyword AND the effect. It’s different things adding key words. Adding the warscroll effects from the artifact can be inferred, but is not explicit. 

No, its any buff of any warscroll that applies to it as Agent of Chaos has said.  Look at him as a mini Archaon who can benefit from any god mark buff going all at the same time.  For argument sake if you had twelve things on the table offering four different buffs to each of the four gods he'd receive the lot. - as well as his own!

It's easy to over analyse and over complicate but it really is that simple.  It harkens back to the old chaos undivided armies which contained all marks, the only difference is that now your bearer of the artefact gains the benefit of all of them.  Don't look at what he can do but what the people around him with buffs can do for him.

Edited July 11, 2018 by Kaleb Daark
spelling!

[Graftonianman]

9 hours ago, Kaleb Daark said:

No, its any buff of any warscroll that applies to it as Agent of Chaos has said.  Look at him as a mini archaon who can benefiit from any god mark buff going all at the same time.  For argument sake if you had twelve things on the table offering four different buffs to each of the four gods he'd receive the lot. - as well as his own!

It's easy to over analyse and over complicate but it really is that simple.  It harkens back to the old chaos undivided armies which contained all marks, the only difference is that now your bearer of the artefact gains the benefit of all of them.  Don't look at shat he can do but what the people around him with buffs can do for him.

Oh I see. That’s an interesting tactic. And a lot of characters to pull off!

[Agent of Chaos]

Infernal Slayer is right... as a slaves to darkness artifact you are limited by your allies pool as far as buffs from other heroes go. You couldnt even buff him with your other Slaves Heroes as the allegiance ability doesn't work for other heroes, only units. Maybe someone with knowledge of all four god factions might be able to theory craft a list with cheap allied heroes to buff a Daemon Prince with the Mark of the All Favoured but I dont know if it would be a viable tactic.

[Waiyuren]

Because the daemon prince doesn't have the Slaves to Darkness keyword, there are currently only 3 ways i can think of to include him in an s2d army; apotheosis him in, bring him in the s2d battalion that names him specifically, or give him a mark and ally him in. I don't think any of those options actually allow him to be the general or benefit from the allegiance abilities?

So unless I'm wrong, then no artifact or trait for him. ?

Edited July 14, 2018 by Waiyuren

[Tasman]

14 hours ago, Waiyuren said:

Because the daemon prince doesn't have the Slaves to Darkness keyword, there are currently only 3 ways i can think of to include him in an s2d army; apotheosis him in, bring him in the s2d battalion that names him specifically, or give him a mark and ally him in. I don't think any of those options actually allow him to be the general or benefit from the allegiance abilities?

So unless I'm wrong, then no artifact or trait for him. ?

You don't have to ally him in if you  can give him any  mark, or if you're playing straight StD with no marks, you can still bring him..... he's listed under StD on the community war scroll builder. He can be your general, take traits and artifacts, whatever. If you give him a mark, he becomes a part of that alliance.

Edited July 15, 2018 by Tasman

[Magicbandit]

4 hours ago, Tasman said:

You don't have to ally him in if you  can give him any  mark, or if you're playing straight StD with no marks, you can still bring him..... he's listed under StD on the community war scroll builder. He can be your general, take traits and artifacts, whatever. If you give him a mark, he becomes a part of that alliance.

Technically you cant use him in a Slaves To Darkness allegiance since he does not have the keyword. Even though one of the STD batallions can contain a Daemon Prince.

This is an issue that came up after STD allegiance became a thing and has not been fixed since.

[Tasman]

8 hours ago, Magicbandit said:

Technically you cant use him in a Slaves To Darkness allegiance since he does not have the keyword. Even though one of the STD batallions can contain a Daemon Prince.

This is an issue that came up after STD allegiance became a thing and has not been fixed since.

I don't agree. He's part of the alliance.... just ally him in if you feel that you can't take him any other way. He's only 160.

[Kaleb Daark]

8 minutes ago, Tasman said:

I don't agree. He's part of the alliance.... just ally him in if you feel that you can't take him any other way. He's only 160.

I agree, this is typical GW typo.  Pester their facebook page till they cave in and put it right.  He's listed in the faction on the store page so just go for it.

[Ravinsild]

I’ve been keeping my eye on Slaves to Darkness models because I really love how Chaos Warriors and Chaos Knights look. 

Is there any place for them in a typical Gore Pilgrims Khorne Bloodbound list of mortals? Are Chaos Warriors a good replacement for a defensive wall versus Blood Warriors? How about Knights? Anything else of note that could help bring something cool or new to a normal Khorne Bloodbound Army? 

[Agent of Chaos]

@Ravinsild Chaos Knights are great in a Khorne list and I run them often. They love the buffs from bloodsecrator, Bloodstoker and Killing Frenzy prayers. Take the glaives, buff em up, charge in and watch them destroy things. The 5+ mortal wound save is very welcome in the new magic meta as well. If you can fit him in, a chaos lord on daemonic mount with mark of khorne is another great buffer for the knights. I like to run two units with glaives, buff one up and charge it in, next turn retreat and send in the other buffed up unit. Reason being their damage output drops dramatically after the charge.

Chaos warriors are not bad choice for objective camping and make good bodyguards for the bloodsecrator however in gore pilgrims you have to take a unit of blood warriors anyway and its hard to justify a unit of each when there are so many other good choices. 

[Agent of Chaos]

@Ravinsild Something like this would be fun (add command traits, artifacts and prayers to suit);

Allegiance: Khorne
Chaos Lord On Daemonic Mount (140)
- General
- Mark of Chaos: Khorne
Bloodsecrator (140)
Bloodstoker (80)
Slaughterpriest (100)
Slaughterpriest (100)
Slaughterpriest (100)
10 x Blood Warriors (200)
- Goreaxes
- 1x Goreglaives
20 x Bloodreavers (140)
- Reaver Blades
10 x Chaos Knights (320)
- Chaos Glaives
- Mark of Chaos: Khorne
10 x Chaos Knights (320)
- Chaos Glaives
- Mark of Chaos: Khorne
1 x Chaos Warshrine (160)
- Mark of Chaos: Khorne
- Blood Blessing: None
Gore Pilgrims (200)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1

[Ravinsild]

20 minutes ago, Agent of Chaos said:

@Ravinsild Chaos Knights are great in a Khorne list and I run them often. They love the buffs from bloodsecrator, Bloodstoker and Killing Frenzy prayers. Take the glaives, buff em up, charge in and watch them destroy things. The 5+ mortal wound save is very welcome in the new magic meta as well. If you can fit him in, a chaos lord on daemonic mount with mark of khorne is another great buffer for the knights. I like to run two units with glaives, buff one up and charge it in, next turn retreat and send in the other buffed up unit. Reason being their damage output drops dramatically after the charge.

Chaos warriors are not bad choice for objective camping and make good bodyguards for the bloodsecrator however in gore pilgrims you have to take a unit of blood warriors anyway and its hard to justify a unit of each when there are so many other good choices. 

Yeah, I like Blood Warriors are "ok" but I have a hard time finding a purpose or spot for them. My Skullreapers just murder everything in literal droves and I adore them, and my Bloodreavers are weak chaff, but they get consecutive buffs and can at least lay down a bit of hurt and fuel my blood tithe, plus they can grab objectives. They're disposable but versatile. Chaos Warriors to me are appealing because of that mortal wound save and they just feel pretty sturdy. 

I do like how when Blood Warriors die they're allowed to fight anyway, so they never feel wasted per-say, but they also never seem to be amazing. Chaos Warriors feel like they bring a unique amount of defensive tankiness that Khorne doesn't exactly have. That's why I had my eye on them. 

TBH I have a theory crafted list like this: 

Allegiance: Khorne
Mortal Realm: Aqshy

Leaders
Lord Of Khorne On Juggernaut (140)
- General
- Trait: Violent Urgency 
- Artefact: Talisman of Burning Blood 
Slaughterpriest with Hackblade and Wrathhammer (100)
- Blood Blessing: Killing Frenzy
Bloodsecrator (140)
- Banner of Khorne (Artefact): Banner of Rage
Aspiring Deathbringer with Goreaxe and Skullhammer (100)
Chaos Lord On Daemonic Mount (140)
- Mark of Chaos: Khorne

Battleline
3 x Mighty Skullcrushers (140)
- Bloodglaives
3 x Mighty Skullcrushers (140)
- Bloodglaives
3 x Mighty Skullcrushers (140)
- Bloodglaives
3 x Mighty Skullcrushers (140)
- Bloodglaives
3 x Mighty Skullcrushers (140)
- Bloodglaives

Units
5 x Chaos Knights (160)
- Chaos Glaives
- Mark of Chaos: Khorne
5 x Chaos Knights (160)
- Chaos Glaives
- Mark of Chaos: Khorne
5 x Chaos Knights (160)
- Chaos Glaives
- Mark of Chaos: Khorne

Battalions
Brass Stampede (200)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 151
 

I do not expect this to be the most competitive list, but I think it would look incredible as an all mounted force and might do somewhat decently. 

[Agent of Chaos]

It certainly would look great on the table, however the Aspiring deathbringer is probably a waste here because he wont keep up with the cavalry for his ability to do anything.  Also an all cavalry list without a Bloodstoker just feels wrong so I would swap him in.

I never use him however the mighty lord of khorne's command trait would be pretty valuable here  considering how crucial it is for all of those units to charge. 

[Ravinsild]

53 minutes ago, Agent of Chaos said:

It certainly would look great on the table, however the Aspiring deathbringer is probably a waste here because he wont keep up with the cavalry for his ability to do anything.  Also an all cavalry list without a Bloodstoker just feels wrong so I would swap him in.

I never use him however the mighty lord of khorne's command trait would be pretty valuable here  considering how crucial it is for all of those units to charge. 

That's a good point. I love the Mighty Lord of Khorne but using him would take me 20 over the cap unfortunately. However I could use a Bloodstoker. 

[Agent of Chaos]

Good luck with it!

[Waiyuren]

20 hours ago, Tasman said:

I don't agree. He's part of the alliance.... just ally him in if you feel that you can't take him any other way. He's only 160.

I really want that to be true, but i personally only play tourney-legal matched play, and rules as written he's currently not... Which sucks given i spent a lot of effort converting one to be my general when i first started slaves. ?

We should all email them. It's dumb the way it is now and such an easy fix; all they have to do is put the right keyword in his warscroll, then everyone is happy!