AoS 2 - Clan Skyre Discussion

[Gwendar]

4 hours ago, The_Yellow_Sign said:

Thanks! How would you recommend equipping the Stormfiends? Do you just put the warpfire projectors on all of them?

If you have them or they allow you to proxy, sure. Especially for Gautfyre. Otherwise, I always go 3 Warpfire, 3 Shock Gauntlets and 3 Grinderfists

[Lazaris]

Sorry for (maybe) asking the question again, but there have been too many changes to our allegiance ability that increases the damage of an attack, and I have to say that I'm lost!

So:

- If I attack with a Stormfiend equipped with Shock Gauntlets
- I get 4 hits on my target
- I roll for wounds and all go through
- I use the allegiance ability
- I inflict 2 + 2 + 2 + 3 damage, and NOT 3 + 3 + 3 + 3

Please let me know if my understanding is correct.

[Skreech Verminking]

18 minutes ago, Lazaris said:

Sorry for (maybe) asking the question again, but there have been too many changes to our allegiance ability that increases the damage of an attack, and I have to say that I'm lost!

So:

- If I attack with a Stormfiend equipped with Shock Gauntlets
- I get 4 hits on my target
- I roll for wounds and all go through
- I use the allegiance ability
- I inflict 2 + 2 + 2 + 3 damage, and NOT 3 + 3 + 3 + 3

Please let me know if my understanding is correct.

I believe it is 3+3+3+3 damage.

Don’t know though since many people say the exact opposite.

I couldn’t find anything saying that it would be wrong.

 

[Gwendar]

@LazarisYeah.. When it comes to Shock Gauntlets specifically and their automatic hits generating from a single hit.. Well, it's a divided opinion. I've emailed the rules team about it but never got a response, so it may be worth asking them again. 

In your specific example, assuming here you don't roll any 6's for extra hits, let's say all 4 hit, wound and are unsaved. You increase the damage of 1 attack out of the four by 1, hence making it 2+2+2+3,not 3's across the board. I agree that this is how it is intended. 

Now, where the debate comes in is from the d6 automatic hits generated from rolling a 6+. Some will argue that the exploding automatic hits generated from a single attack can be all be increased since they come from ONE attack, but hit multiple times. So essentially you could turn that 1 hit into 6 (assuming you roll a 6 on the d6 automatic hits of course) they believe all 6 get +1 damage, instead of just 1 hit out of the 6.

I disagree with this interpretation heavily. That said, until they change the wording or something, then I can't say for sure. It gets more confusing how to even attempt that interpretation of it when you consider you can use sparks after the fact, so you would need to roll individually and call it then and there. I recommend giving the rules/FAQ team a shout.

[Lazaris]

Thanks a lot for your answer!

I dropped an e-mail to the rules team, as you suggested.

In the meantime, I am tempted to play the rule as written and follow the interpretation you disagree with! (sorry! 😁)

The Stormfiends warscroll does say "that attack scores d6 hits", and the allegiance ability "Add 1 to the damage inflicted by 1 successful attack"...

[The_Yellow_Sign]

7 hours ago, Lazaris said:

Thanks a lot for your answer!

I dropped an e-mail to the rules team, as you suggested.

In the meantime, I am tempted to play the rule as written and follow the interpretation you disagree with! (sorry! 😁)

The Stormfiends warscroll does say "that attack scores d6 hits", and the allegiance ability "Add 1 to the damage inflicted by 1 successful attack"...

I think your interpretation is probably correct by RAW. Probably not RAI since it makes that weapon option much stronger than the other melee options.

[Gwendar]

18 hours ago, The_Yellow_Sign said:

I think your interpretation is probably correct by RAW. Probably not RAI since it makes that weapon option much stronger than the other melee options.

Yep, and I don't blame anyone for playing it this way since it does specify attacks, I just don't think it's intended that way since, yes, it makes them even stronger. 

But of course, I'm also the same person who tried the Grinder-team + Acolytes to come up within 9" which is also probably not RAI. Take what you can get as a Skaven player. 

[Skreech Verminking]

45 minutes ago, Gwendar said:

Yep, and I don't blame anyone for playing it this way since it does specify attacks, I just don't think it's intended that way since, yes, it makes them even stronger. 

But of course, I'm also the same person who tried the Grinder-team + Acolytes to come up within 9" which is also probably not RAI. Take what you can get as a Skaven player. 

Yeah that probably also wasn’t really intended by Gw.

but from a raw perspective and if playing on events/tournaments, I really would recomment to play like this.

because, it firstly is something that will help our skaven army’s a lot, since the love needed seems to have gone missing,

and secondly why should we feel bad using such dirty tricks, we are after all the chosens of the Horned rat, and don’t tell me that it is unfair playing with maybe made grammar mistakes Gw didn’t notice against the fish-things or poster-things. They have plentiful goodness already, a good Aelve/poster-things is a dead one.

 

ps: although I myself have to say that using this tricks should only be limited to tournaments and events and should not be used in friendly match ups and in no case against beginners. 

Edited November 17, 2018 by Skreech Verminking

[Gwendar]

In a tournament? Absolutely, even I would probably give a try since we need any help we can get. Like I said though, I feel as though you would need to roll each 6 to hit separately for it's d6 hits to see what gives the most return since you can use a spark after the fact.

I never have any trouble against SC luckily. It's actually quite satisfying how easy of a time I have against them thanks to all the MW's and I never feel bad for doing things as written when anyone else would do the same. 


Also, I had a 2k game against IJ cut short due to my opponent getting called in to work. I may put up some pictures Monday and give a batrep of what little we actually got to play.

[Num]

14 hours ago, Gwendar said:

Yep, and I don't blame anyone for playing it this way since it does specify attacks, I just don't think it's intended that way since, yes, it makes them even stronger. 

But of course, I'm also the same person who tried the Grinder-team + Acolytes to come up within 9" which is also probably not RAI. Take what you can get as a Skaven player. 

I don't think the grinder+acolytes is problematic in terms of RAW/RAI. It's just a combo. You could also take 9 stormfiends with gatlings along, or 100 jezzails, or 40 night/gutter runners.

Once the acolytes dropped their attacks, they're just standing there naked, ready to get wiped or battleshocked.

I don't feel any rules are being abused there.

The shock gauntlets one I find trickier...

[Gwendar]

Well yeah, I get that it's a combo and I could easily use it with something else. I just find that it works better than other things mentioned in certain scenarios as 20+ Acolytes shooting at something can do a good amount of wounds. You're right, they won't survive after that initial volley, but doing this in a not-so-serious-all-shooting-list is fun, not competitive.

I guess I just need to be clear; I'm not saying it's an abuse, I just stated that I doubt that 'within 9"' and not 'more than 9"' was intended  as many, many things clearly state more than 9", but as written it's fair game to do it and I have been.

Anyway, I see everyone's point on the Shock-Gauntlets clearly saying attack and not hits, but I feel that when GHB18 first came out it's iteration was arguably better for multi-hit weapons, such as the Shock-Gauntlets and Ratling Guns, as it increased the damage of a weapon specifically and the FAQ changed it to what I would assume was an intentional nerf and it will only ever net you +1 damage. This lets you better ensure you kill off that Hero with 1 wound left or unit of Pink Horrors that you killed 9 of only to be 1 wound away from killing the banner-bearer.

[Rahana]

Dear fellow rat-men,

I am new to Skaven (fulfilling my long-lasting dream and fascination) and my main force will be Skryre themed. I am planning to take my Skryre force to a medium-sized 2K tournament in February and of course, I want to enjoy the Clan Skryre-Gautfyre-Arkhspark shenanigans. As I am slowly assembling and painting this list (made myself a promise this will be first army that gets on the table only when fully painted and based), I am aiming for this base:

Clan Skryre - Gautfyre - Arkhspark

Arch-Warlock

Warlock Enginneer

Warlock Engineer

Stormfiends (Projectors)

Stormfiends (Projectors)

5x Skryre Acolytes

Warpfire Thrower Team

Warp-grinder

Warp Lightning Cannon

This brings me to 1610 points worth of rats and is first on the painting line; the cannon will actually get based today. In terms of what I have at my disposal at the moment (no problem to buy another boxes, I am spoiled like that) - 2x SC Pestilens (1x WLC already built, some monks will be converted into Acolytes); 3 boxes of Stormfiends (2x3 to be built and converted to Projectors only, possible magnets?); IoB set, 2 nice pewter Warlocks, 1 nice pewter Ikit Claw, Arch-warlock conversion out of Mechanicum (underway); box of 20 Clanrats, box of 20 Stormvermin (some might fall victim to Jezzail conversions), finecast Assassin and blood bowl box that I intend to convert into 10x Gutter runners. Malign Sorcery and Balewind is at my disposal, too.

Anyways - what do you suggest as the best filler for the remaining 390 points of the roster? Currently I am leaning either towards Clanrat/Stormvermin blob, or getting clever with Gutter Runners/Plague monks.

Adding some pictures, too!

Thanks!

[Skreech Verminking]

33 minutes ago, Rahana said:

Dear fellow rat-men,

I am new to Skaven (fulfilling my long-lasting dream and fascination) and my main force will be Skryre themed. I am planning to take my Skryre force to a medium-sized 2K tournament in February and of course, I want to enjoy the Clan Skryre-Gautfyre-Arkhspark shenanigans. As I am slowly assembling and painting this list (made myself a promise this will be first army that gets on the table only when fully painted and based), I am aiming for this base:

Clan Skryre - Gautfyre - Arkhspark

Arch-Warlock

Warlock Enginneer

Warlock Engineer

Stormfiends (Projectors)

Stormfiends (Projectors)

5x Skryre Acolytes

Warpfire Thrower Team

Warp-grinder

Warp Lightning Cannon

This brings me to 1610 points worth of rats and is first on the painting line; the cannon will actually get based today. In terms of what I have at my disposal at the moment (no problem to buy another boxes, I am spoiled like that) - 2x SC Pestilens (1x WLC already built, some monks will be converted into Acolytes); 3 boxes of Stormfiends (2x3 to be built and converted to Projectors only, possible magnets?); IoB set, 2 nice pewter Warlocks, 1 nice pewter Ikit Claw, Arch-warlock conversion out of Mechanicum (underway); box of 20 Clanrats, box of 20 Stormvermin (some might fall victim to Jezzail conversions), finecast Assassin and blood bowl box that I intend to convert into 10x Gutter runners. Malign Sorcery and Balewind is at my disposal, too.

Anyways - what do you suggest as the best filler for the remaining 390 points of the roster? Currently I am leaning either towards Clanrat/Stormvermin blob, or getting clever with Gutter Runners/Plague monks.

Adding some pictures, too!

Thanks!

Clanrats or giant rats are probably going to be your best friend in this case.

if possibly I’d take 80 of them, to hold the enemeny in line.

Stormvermins and plague monks are on their own great but since you’ll anyways already have the heavy hitters and especially a gautfyre scorch formation, I’d rather take more body’s for objective craping  than any other shenanigans which will die directly after you charged them.

also 20Stormvermins won’t do too much damage especially when you don’t have any kind of hit or extra attack buffs you could give them.

Edited November 19, 2018 by Skreech Verminking

[Almace038]

Greetings warlocks, has anyone had much experience with magnetizing the Stormfiend’s weaponry? The variable load outs for the Stormfiends is one of the main attractions for the army so being able to swap weapons around is a draw to the army.

[Gdead909]

Hello all that skitter, 

I am looking to start a skaven force. I posted in the verminus clan as well. Sunce skryre and verminus are the two I plan on focusing on. 

So what is a good starting point for us? I want to try and focus my purchases.

[Gwendar]

@Gdead909WLC's and Stormfiends accompanied by 40-80 Clanrats are general mainstays. If you plan to use the Gautfyre enginecoven\battalion, you will want to maximize usage of Stormfiends (in my opinion) with warpfire projectors. Standard warpfire throw weapon teams are also great, even outside of Gautfyre when you hide them behind or inside of these Clanrat units.

Currently, I'm building into a double Arkhspark list shown below:
Arch Warlock (140)
- General
- Trait: Cunning Creature 
Warlock Engineer (100)
Warlock Engineer (100)
3 x Stormfiends (290)
3 x Stormfiends (290)
5 x Skryre Acolytes (60)
40 x Clanrats (200)
- Rusty Spear
- Allies
40 x Clanrats (200)
- Rusty Blade
- Allies
Warp Lightning Cannon (180)
Warp Lightning Cannon (180)
Clan Skryre (80)
Arkhspark Voltik (70)
Arkhspark Voltik (70)
Balewind Vortex (40)

Total: 2000 / 2000

[Num]

3 hours ago, Gdead909 said:

Hello all that skitter, 

I am looking to start a skaven force. I posted in the verminus clan as well. Sunce skryre and verminus are the two I plan on focusing on. 

So what is a good starting point for us? I want to try and focus my purchases.

Hi and welcome A good start would be:

- 1-2 start collecting pestilens and some 40k backpack bitz off eBay: this should give you 20-40 acolytes, 1-2 cannons, 10-20 giant rats, 1-2 plague priests and 1-2 bells

- island of blood sets, if you can still find some... Each is worth 40 clanrats, warlock engineer, warlock, warpfire thrower, poisoned wind mortars and else

- 1 arch warlock

- 1-3 sets of stormfiends

 

With this you can build about anything skryre or verminus related...

 

[deumosd]

Hello,

Finally after many attempts I am finally playing in my first ever tournament this weekend. it is at 1500 point. I do not have much experience playing even. I have been actively watching these forums and looking at list posted. I have finaly decided to go with the following list:

 

Arch Warlock

Warlock Engineer

Warlock Engineer

Packmaster (Allies)

3x Stormfiends (2xwarfire projectors 1X gauntlets (did not have time to paint a 3rd warpfire)

5x Acolytes

5x Acolytes

2x warpfire Thrower weapon team

2x Poisoned wind mortar team

40x Clan rats (allies)

1x Warp Lightning Cannon

Balewind Vortoex

Hopefully someone with more experience could just say if it is an OK list to try out. or any changes you would make (I do have a few other models etc I could use).

Sorry if I have missed an exact same list earlier.

Many thanks for your time.

[sorokyl]

What does the packmaster do here? I don't see any moulder units? Sorry im new to skaven

[Gdead909]

Stormfiends are moulder as well as skryre. So he gives them plus 1 to hit, run and charge

[Skreech Verminking]

7 hours ago, deumosd said:

Hello,

Finally after many attempts I am finally playing in my first ever tournament this weekend. it is at 1500 point. I do not have much experience playing even. I have been actively watching these forums and looking at list posted. I have finaly decided to go with the following list:

 

 

Arch Warlock

Warlock Engineer

Warlock Engineer

Packmaster (Allies)

3x Stormfiends (2xwarfire projectors 1X gauntlets (did not have time to paint a 3rd warpfire)

5x Acolytes

5x Acolytes

2x warpfire Thrower weapon team

2x Poisoned wind mortar team

40x Clan rats (allies)

1x Warp Lightning Cannon

Balewind Vortoex

Hopefully someone with more experience could just say if it is an OK list to try out. or any changes you would make (I do have a few other models etc I could use).

Sorry if I have missed an exact same list earlier.

Many thanks for your time.

Good luck then.

Kill-slay for Skreech,

Yes-yes Aelvethings shall suffer-die

[Baron Wastelands]

16 hours ago, sorokyl said:

What does the packmaster do here? I don't see any moulder units? Sorry im new to skaven

 

13 hours ago, Gdead909 said:

Stormfiends are moulder as well as skryre. So he gives them plus 1 to hit, run and charge

While I am a huge advocate of packmaster buffing stormfiends armed with shock gauntlets, I’m not sure it’s worth it for 1, and it doesn’t add much to the warpfire thrower fiends. You could try swapping out the clan rats for giant rats, but again, in a unit of 40, the packmaster’s to hit buff is overkill. So I probably wouldn’t run a packmaster in this list. 

Also, the mortar teams are generally a bit disappointing at present. You could swap the packmaster and mortars for a second WLC, which would give you a more reliable battery. Or another block of 40 clanrats/giant rats if you can find the extra 20 points. Alternatively drop the second engineer as well and add another unit of stormfiends.

Edited November 21, 2018 by Baron Wastelands

[deumosd]

Thanks for the feedback- might try and get some more stormfiends in!

[sorokyl]

I have wound up with a lot of rats and I am thinking Skyre is the first list I want to build. (but I eventually do want to make mixed lists) 

Currently I have 
2x warlord
2x packmaster
2x warlock engineer
120x clan rats
40x stormvermin
4x rat ogors
6x Jezzail
3x warpfyre  thrower weapon team
2x poison wind weapon team
1x ratling weapon team
1x warp lightning cannon
1x screaming bell
Hellpit abomination

So seems like I need:
1 Arch-Warlock.  I'll try to find an Ikit Claw model or buy it from GW. 
Stormfiends.  6? 9?   How do you guys do weapons? I have to buy 9 in order to equip 3 with the same weapon.   (unless I model them with different weapons in each hand, and then I can have 3 warpfyre throwers with 2 boxes, and 6 warpfyre throwers with 3 boxes, but that seems like it could cause confusion).     Is running different weapons in the same unit every preferrable? 

After that I think I can build a lot of lists.  Maybe another WLC at some point. Are Skyre Acolytes good? Are they critical? $10 a pop for 20 point metal models not as fun for me as Stormfiends... 

Thanks for any input

Edited November 21, 2018 by sorokyl

[Baron Wastelands]

38 minutes ago, sorokyl said:

 

Stormfiends.  6? 9?   How do you guys do weapons? I have to buy 9 in order to equip 3 with the same weapon.   (unless I model them with different weapons in each hand, and then I can have 3 warpfyre throwers with 2 boxes, and 6 warpfyre throwers with 3 boxes, but that seems like it could cause confusion).     Is running different weapons in the same unit every preferrable? 

After that I think I can build a lot of lists.  Maybe another WLC at some point. Are Skyre Acolytes good? Are they critical? $10 a pop for 20 point metal models not as fun for me as Stormfiends... 

Thanks for any input

Buying 3 boxes is what I did. I’d definitely build 3 warpfire, 3 shock gauntlets. Then probably 3 grinder, because the utility can be great and they’re not bad in combat. I like 3 rattling too, but not everyone will agree and they need to pick their targets. Generally running the same thing in 3 is good, the only variation for me is occasionally putting 1 grinder fist in to move a unit around, but it is hard to do so without limiting the unit a bit - even in melee units (e.g. shock gauntlets love a packmaster, but if you tunnel them away you end up out of range).

I don’t use acolytes personally. Their main bonus is that they are cheap little units. Don’t forget you can ally in clanrats as battleline, though Of course you can use stormfiends anyway in a skryre list.