AoS 2 - Disciples of Tzeentch Discussion

[mmimzie]

27 minutes ago, Asimov said:

Looks like Khorne is going to be a pain even more.  Warhammer Community Link
Skulls Endless spell (or the so call equivalent): -2 to cast it at 12'' of one. If you roll 8 and you are at 12'' of both you forget the spell and all wizards at 12'' get D6 (!) MW

The Skull altar: -1 to cast at 16'' 

I have a friend who plays khorne, I really consider playing against just to try smth with the least wizards possible... or just go StD. He would have invest in anti magical stuff and thus give me some advantage. But honestly it is gonna be impossible to align a magical heavy list I think

I don't really rate that too high. Its more a Friday game issue spells, as i feel most competive list i feel like won't bring it?? Because is it worth spending the pts to have that model in your list vs other things. In friendlies it's definitely more of an issue because they could bring it simply because they know they are playing you.

The impact of the spell i think on many tzneetch list won't be felt till turn 2 or 3.  Turn 1 its easy to deploy out of effective range of that spell, and if you are playing a classic pink horror farm than you likely are already deploying outside of dispel range. 

 

So I'd playing against it feels rather than being too concerned to fast. Infact for all we know it could cost 100pts or something *shrug*.

[Asimov]

Yes. I want to see the point cost. But giving the strength of miagic in the current meta (Nagash, Stormcast, Sylvaneth...), it might really be a good addition to a competitive list if it is not too expensive. 
In addition of the boost to the heavy cavalry, Skarband and the prayer, Khorne is really getting a nice boost and not only against magic. 

[Lightbox]

On ‎3‎/‎6‎/‎2019 at 2:18 PM, DavionStar said:

I also want to look more into making some female Kairics. I've seen a few ideas around.

If you ever work out a good way to do this besides buying 7 billion boxes of eyes of the nine do let me know!

[Magnus The Blue]

Watching a Doom and Darkness vid the other day and saw a DoT list with a Great Bray Shaman (from Beast of Chaos book), but can't see how that would be legal (wasn't playing the Fantasmagora of Fate battalion), DoT can't ally with Brayherd and the Shaman can't have the Tzeentch Keyword (without the battalion).  Am I missing something or was the list illegal?

Would love to have that movement boost for Tzaangors and cheap caster, but not so much to get a full 200 point battalion for it.

[Asimov]

53 minutes ago, Magnus The Blue said:

Watching a Doom and Darkness vid the other day and saw a DoT list with a Great Bray Shaman (from Beast of Chaos book), but can't see how that would be legal (wasn't playing the Fantasmagora of Fate battalion), DoT can't ally with Brayherd and the Shaman can't have the Tzeentch Keyword (without the battalion).  Am I missing something or was the list illegal?

Would love to have that movement boost for Tzaangors and cheap caster, but not so much to get a full 200 point battalion for it.

I saw it on AoSShorts and was asking me the same thing. I thought this was illegal as well.

[Mo7650]

Check general’s handbook 2018 errata published in dec 2018. Beasts of chaos can be taken as allies in a tzeentch army

[Asimov]

2 hours ago, Mo7650 said:

Check general’s handbook 2018 errata published in dec 2018. Beasts of chaos can be taken as allies in a tzeentch army

I have to try it now
But I need to playtest before getting 9 more enlighteneds (and painting them)

Do you guys think the vortex is used with the curseling to steal all the spells he can?
I was expecting both shaman running by the tzaangors and the curseling as a back field control tower, sacrificing the poor kairic holding an objective nearby... 

[DavionStar]

4 hours ago, Lightbox said:

If you ever work out a good way to do this besides buying 7 billion boxes of eyes of the nine do let me know!

Found this on Instagram.

I might see about putting a few more armor bits on mine though, but the Kairics aren't wearing much to begin with so it's still quite close. Kairic boxes have 20 models and Witch Aelves have 10 so with just 1 extra box you could maybe make a full half of them female.

[Lightbox]

20 minutes ago, DavionStar said:

Found this on Instagram.

I might see about putting a few more armor bits on mine though, but the Kairics aren't wearing much to begin with so it's still quite close. Kairic boxes have 20 models and Witch Aelves have 10 so with just 1 extra box you could maybe make a full half of them female.

Oh wow that's amazing!! I'm gonna have to try that sometime.

[Argonoch]

Have a small 2000pts tournament in the FLGS. Haven't really played Tzeentch at higher points levels before but thinking of playing this list.

The tournament is 3 rounds using all the realmwars rules, including commands and spells, and the battles are in the Realm of Life. 1st battle is duality of death with a quagmire, 2nd is scorched earth with seeds of hope and the 3rd battle is better part of valour with a lifespring.

--HQ--

LoC - Mark of the Conjurer

Shaman

Curseling

Blue Scribes

Gaunt Summoner - Arcane Sacrifice

--Battleline--

10 Pink Horrors

10 Pink Horrors

20 Tzaangors

--Endless Spells--

Vortext

Cogs

Spellportal

Pendulum

 

I basically want to maximise the summoning potential as Im not sure what kind of armies will be here. The 20 tzaangors with the shaman are there for a tough battleline to take on the tougher units and the shaman to buff them and bring them back. I suspect there will probably be a lot of FEC players potentially.

I thought of using the lifeswarm instead of the spellportal but I like the idea of an alphastrike infernal gateway on the enemy warlord. I have 6 tzaangor enlightened but Im not sure how I can fit them in really. Unless I drop the tzaangors to 2 units of 10, only one unit of pinks and drop a couple of endless spells. But I feel like I lose out too much that way :/

[Asimov]

56 minutes ago, Argonoch said:

I basically want to maximise the summoning potential as Im not sure what kind of armies will be here. The 20 tzaangors with the shaman are there for a tough battleline to take on the tougher units and the shaman to buff them and bring them back. I suspect there will probably be a lot of FEC players potentially.

I thought of using the lifeswarm instead of the spellportal but I like the idea of an alphastrike infernal gateway on the enemy warlord. I have 6 tzaangor enlightened but Im not sure how I can fit them in really. Unless I drop the tzaangors to 2 units of 10, only one unit of pinks and drop a couple of endless spells. But I feel like I lose out too much that way

Hi!
Firstly about the spell portal, I don't know if you are aware but it has been faqed and you can now cast only a single spell a turn through it... so definitly not woth the point cost imao
For the tzaangors, 6 enlighteneds are a much bigger threats in close combat than 20 tzaangors.

It is 280pts for 6 enlighteneds that you can bring back with fold reality (if on discs), this is why 9 is even better so you can suck up more damage. You don't want your unit to be wiped out before fold reality. Even with 6 I think it is better. 

20 Tzaangors cost 360 points. It is actually your 6 Enlighteneds (280) plus 10 Kairics (80) feeling your battleline slot. 
With your pendulum and arcance scrifice I expect you kill your own pink and thus flood the field with blues to hold down objos and bubble wrap the other real threat, your wizards.

So I would modify that, maybe take the soulsnare shackles spell. Eventually, you can switch Mark of the Conjurer for smth protecting your LoC (gryph feather charm if you can take an artefact in Ghur )

Oh also, Your Gaunt Summoner needs to have his familiar, he is so much better in this set up for the same cost (+1 to cast, +4 wounds)

[Argonoch]

2 minutes ago, Asimov said:

 

Oh also, Your Gaunt Summoner needs to have his familiar, he is so much better in this set up for the same cost (+1 to cast, +4 wounds)

From the app it says that your opponent decides how the wounds are allocated onto the Gaunt Summoner, so he doesnt really have the extra wounds unless they are self inflicted. Ultimately though I dont have the silver tower model, so no familiars, and doubt I could get them together in time for the tournament.

I do see your point about the tzaangors though and the spell portal, I didnt realise you can only cast a single spell, that does definately reduce the power of it. 

So how about if I drop the portal, tzaangors and shaman. Add in a magister, 6 enlightened and 10 chaos warriors. Or would I be better off with 20 acolytes and soulsnare shackles instead of the 10 warriors?

[Asimov]

10 minutes ago, Argonoch said:

From the app it says that your opponent decides how the wounds are allocated onto the Gaunt Summoner, so he doesnt really have the extra wounds unless they are self inflicted. Ultimately though I dont have the silver tower model, so no familiars, and doubt I could get them together in time for the tournament.

I do see your point about the tzaangors though and the spell portal, I didnt realise you can only cast a single spell, that does definately reduce the power of it. 

So how about if I drop the portal, tzaangors and shaman. Add in a magister, 6 enlightened and 10 chaos warriors. Or would I be better off with 20 acolytes and soulsnare shackles instead of the 10 warriors?

I like the shaman to babysit the Discs... but it is true it is not that of a bonus when theyr are 6. Even debatable for 9. If you own the model, the Chaos Sorcerer lord is a valid option for its buff spell.

The summoner has been faqed as well, it has been discussed in this topic already, I beleive it is in the Silver Tower FAQ. YOU get to choose how to allocate the wounds. Otherwise I agree it would be less important, but as it is your pick it is really great.

If I had to choosse between your 2 options, I would  probably pick the second option because i like the shackles. But for holding down objectives, the warriors are more tanky obviously (with shields). Having 20 Kairics can be nice as you can stretch the unit and grab two objectives and you have the shooting, but if you blow a little they disapear and then run away. And you won't have much command point to avoid the moral test. That's why I take them by 10 and never by 20. 

[Argonoch]

1 minute ago, Asimov said:

The summoner has been faqed as well, it has been discussed in this topic already, I beleive it is in the Silver Tower FAQ. YOU get to choose how to allocate the wounds. Otherwise I agree it would be less important, but as it is your pick it is really great.

If I had to choosse between your 2 options, I would  probably pick the second option because i like the shackles. But for holding down objectives, the warriors are more tanky obviously (with shields). Having 20 Kairics can be nice as you can stretch the unit and grab two objectives and you have the shooting, but if you blow a little they disapear and then run away. And you won't have much command point to avoid the moral test. That's why I take them by 10 and never by 20. 

Oh okay, I'll have to look it up, maybe I can put together 4 familiars, I have a a spare vulchar from the acolytes and a familiar from a chaos terminator lord, might just green stuff 2 others.

And yeah, its hard to decide, it really comes down to what I'll be fighting, if there is gonna be a lot of FEC then shackles are nice to slow them down. But the 4+ save on the warriors, combined with maybe a shield of fate spell will make them hard to shift. I dont think I can fit a sorcerer lord in, Definitely not with the 10 warriors and its only the warriors that would really benefit from his buff.

Plus I like the magister for the chaos spawn  summoning and the potential for double casting. Granted Spawns arent great alone, but still a bit of a distraction and a good way to block enemy movement potentially.

[Argonoch]

The silver tower errata on the warhammer website is dated July 2018, whilst the warscroll on the app is January 2019, so would that not mean the App would be the one that is used?

[Asimov]

4 minutes ago, Argonoch said:

Oh okay, I'll have to look it up, maybe I can put together 4 familiars, I have a a spare vulchar from the acolytes and a familiar from a chaos terminator lord, might just green stuff 2 others.

And yeah, its hard to decide, it really comes down to what I'll be fighting, if there is gonna be a lot of FEC then shackles are nice to slow them down. But the 4+ save on the warriors, combined with maybe a shield of fate spell will make them hard to shift. I dont think I can fit a sorcerer lord in, Definitely not with the 10 warriors and its only the warriors that would really benefit from his buff.

Plus I like the magister for the chaos spawn  summoning and the potential for double casting. Granted Spawns arent great alone, but still a bit of a distraction and a good way to block enemy movement potentially.

I agree on the magister, I like its spell, but it has been several months it did not make the cut. I tend to pick less wizards because summoning is really powerfull for tzeentch with the acrifice of your own pinks. I end up with 3  or 4 wizards, where 2 of them are always the LoC and the Summoner. The others I pick are the shaman to buff the tzaangors/discs, the ogroid for objectif switch shenanigan and then when I feel like it the  blue scrib/curseling/magister

[Paniere]

50 minutes ago, Asimov said:

It is 280pts for 6 enlighteneds

Struggling to find the source for this, since I thought the ghb18 was the one

[Argonoch]

1 minute ago, Asimov said:

I agree on the magister, I like its spell, but it has been several months it did not make the cut. I tend to pick less wizards because summoning is really powerfull for tzeentch with the acrifice of your own pinks. I end up with 3  or 4 wizards, where 2 of them are always the LoC and the Summoner. The others I pick are the shaman to buff the tzaangors/discs, the ogroid for objectif switch shenanigan and then when I feel like it the  blue scrib/curseling/magister

Yeah I really want the big boys, LoC and Summoner, and also the scribes for guaranteed magic. I feel like the curseling is needed because realm spells are in use so more people will be using wizards to make use of them so i think he has a good chance to shine. Ogroid is one of my favourite and his spell is amazing. But I do see your point, if I had 3 more enlightened I would drop the magister to make it 9, but I only have 6 sadly. Similarly I would like to keep the scribes just because they basically guarantee I get all my spells off. Not too sure what would be worth including in place of the magister really if I did drop down to 4 wizards.

[Argonoch]

1 minute ago, Paniere said:

Struggling to find the source for this, since I thought the ghb18 was the one

Beasts of Chaos book came out after ghb18

[Asimov]

1 minute ago, Paniere said:

Struggling to find the source for this, since I thought the ghb18 was the one

No, the last warscroll for all Tzaangors is found in the Beast of Chaos Battletome

[Paniere]

Just now, Argonoch said:

Beasts of Chaos book came out after ghb18

Thank you very much , I'm a newbie and totally missed that

 

[Asimov]

6 minutes ago, Argonoch said:

Yeah I really want the big boys, LoC and Summoner, and also the scribes for guaranteed magic. I feel like the curseling is needed because realm spells are in use so more people will be using wizards to make use of them so i think he has a good chance to shine. Ogroid is one of my favourite and his spell is amazing. But I do see your point, if I had 3 more enlightened I would drop the magister to make it 9, but I only have 6 sadly. Similarly I would like to keep the scribes just because they basically guarantee I get all my spells off. Not too sure what would be worth including in place of the magister really if I did drop down to 4 wizards.

Well the Curseling is nice to throw back the spell at your opponent face... but the best anti magic we have is a LoC with Magical Supremacy. 

For the summoner scroll it is awkward, it looks like they did not update the app. It used to be the app not updated since the silver tower FAQ release.

Honestly I am not using it, I am using printed warscroll from the website with the faqs if needed. 

 

You can break it down by considering that only your DAEMON WIZARDS benefit from the LoC trait. Thus it is not as good to take the arcanite mortal ones 

Edited March 15, 2019 by Asimov

[Argonoch]

Just now, Asimov said:

Well the Curseling is nice to throw back the spell at your opponent face... but the best anti magic we have is a LoC with Magical Supremacy. 

I dunno, I feel the curseling is better cause he doesnt need to roll a 9 to bounce it and it means hes technically cast 4 spells a round if he manages to bounce both. Also I feel like arcane sacrifice on the summoner is more important than the giving the LoC magic supremacy 

[Asimov]

5 minutes ago, Argonoch said:

I dunno, I feel the curseling is better cause he doesnt need to roll a 9 to bounce it and it means hes technically cast 4 spells a round if he manages to bounce both. Also I feel like arcane sacrifice on the summoner is more important than the giving the LoC magic supremacy 

It is not exactly bouncing, as he does net get to cast it back in the opponent hero phase but rather he learns it. Moreover, it will be pointless to learn the realmspells. Learning your opponent spells I find it very situational as often they are tailored for s specific army. For example, once I played agaist Seraphon and brought the curseling it was a mistake for 2 reasons. First mistake a Seraphon does not cast spells, they save them for summon point, second mistake even if they have spells, they are all anti CHAOS DAEMON! Ok this is the worst case scenario...  

I dont want to convince you anyway, You know better than me who and what you will face so go for it, it is never bad choice ! 

[CountryMou3e]

Curseling and spell portal are both great choices 👌🏾