AoS 2 - Disciples of Tzeentch Discussion

[mmimzie]

1 hour ago, Pandamina said:

I think you forgot that this is a 1000 pts game. If you bring something big you still need to score objectives. 10 man evocator unit is already half of the roster, and i think our sacrosanct player will never take his evocators in 10s, only in 5s. It's for example a second unbind attempt, second target for after combat mortal wounds and they are already doing great in 5s in combat.

And again, why should i ever attack first? I can't charge on first turn most of the time. I want my Enlightened to protect me from potential double turn, so i castle them behind summoned horrors to get that reroll if someone dares to come. If not i can just sit on objectives and win by mission. And if i need to charge something really bad, i will send horrors first to die and get me rerolls. I can even return Enlightened with Fold Reality. Normal tzaangors unfortunately don't have the punch i want, even in full unit, and without additional attack and shaman they are just bad.

You plan work if you go first, but failing going first you can't castle up. You need to strike hard and make a hole where in which you can build your castle. Heck 6 enlightend with no buff can only barely kill 12 witch aelves, and if you opponent brings any thing sturdier you are in a bad way.

The shaman isn't 'bad' he's not cost effective, but he does make 6/9 enlightend hit alittle harder which is important when you realize that the surface area of your combat is limited, so buffing  your more focused damage can be quite important. 

i have played lots of 1k games with my deepkin, and maybe your group hasn't figured it out, but bigger units especially monsters are actualy more powerful at 1k pts than they are at 2k because they are basicly unstopable killing machiens unless pitted again same. MY deepking list runs the ediolon and he just doesn't die unless pin by a rather heavy hammer, as both types heal d3 or 2d3 a round. Along with surival relics they can't and wont be stopped, and are fast enough that they don't care about your screens and the wizards can throw a few nasty spell past screen to pick appart heros. It's one model and the enlightend being so clunky can easily be taken on the flank so any form of counter attack from them is only 2 or 3 models strong. 

While the gaunt summoners spell isn't great if faced with no big units to chuck it out, remember most spells do maybe what 3-6 wounds on the high end and far less on the low end. The gaunt summoners spell against even a 10 man unit when compared is 5 more wounds... thats more than you'd get out of bolt of change, and speaking of which the gaunt summoner gets 2 spells to throw and can also throw bolt of change or glimpse the future or whatever else you want. 

Anyway your meta is what it is, but the power of 1k pts level is actualy more in favor of big units as they are neigh unstoppable until they've done so much damage to you that there is no more game to play.  when a maw crusher charges your blue horror line after breath waeponing them, kills the rest with destructive bulk, and then kills all of your enlightend in just 1 turn you'll see how strong big bad things are at 1k pts. But, so long as your same, then *shrug.* 

[CountryMou3e]

How many hero’s are too many ?  

so far I’ve put together an archaon list which has 4 total and my non archaon list has around 5 

[Luke1705]

Has anyone tried big units of skyfires and/or enlightened with Kairos to ensure you don’t get screwed on fold reality? It’s been a while since I’ve played tzeentch

[Luke1705]

Also why are there two special rules for the shaman? His warscroll says “visions of the future” which lets you add 1 to the hit rolls for skyfires, but skyfires have their own rule “preternatural enhancement” which lets them do the same thing. Does this mean that you get +2 to hit from a single shaman? I guess this would offset the fact that only unmodified 6 proc the mortal wounds now

[Drib]

56 minutes ago, Luke1705 said:

Also why are there two special rules for the shaman? His warscroll says “visions of the future” which lets you add 1 to the hit rolls for skyfires, but skyfires have their own rule “preternatural enhancement” which lets them do the same thing. Does this mean that you get +2 to hit from a single shaman? I guess this would offset the fact that only unmodified 6 proc the mortal wounds now

You are looking at the old Skyfires warscroll. The +1 to hit rolls was moved to the Shaman.

[Luke1705]

3 minutes ago, Drib said:

You are looking at the old Skyfires warscroll. The +1 to hit rolls was moved to the Shaman.

They Azyr app updated it to be unmodified 6 but didn’t change the +1 to hit location? Smh. I just assumed that since they updated it to have an entry in the BOC section of the app that the entire warscroll was updated. Oh GW

[mmimzie]

1 hour ago, CountryMou3e said:

How many hero’s are too many ?  

so far I’ve put together an archaon list which has 4 total and my non archaon list has around 5 

I think you'll find your hero limit is tied to how many good spells you can cast in a turn. 

 

Basicly, I'd take heros as needed to drop 6 wounds of character or whole units a turn.

 

For instance looking at the LoC his on personal spell when cast does and average of 6 wounds which tends to be enough to 1 shot most on foot heros at ranged.

 

So look at there spells and think about how that is going to out in units kills. 

 

2 hours ago, Luke1705 said:

They Azyr app updated it to be unmodified 6 but didn’t change the +1 to hit location? Smh. I just assumed that since they updated it to have an entry in the BOC section of the app that the entire warscroll was updated. Oh GW

It was in the FAQ that you use the newest warscroll of the same name or something like that.

[Luke1705]

4 hours ago, mmimzie said:

It was in the FAQ that you use the newest warscroll of the same name or something like that.

Of course that just makes sense. My (apparently erroneous) assumption was that the newest warscroll would be in the azyr app, and that the beasts of chaos skyfires would be the same as the tzeentch skyfires in the app. It’s not that new of a battletome any longer. GW gotta get that straightened out

[Murder Pancake]

So, between my SO and our local Warhammer store doing a secret gift exchange sort of thing, I have suddenly found myself in the possession of two LOC.  GW hosed the thing with the point cost though, and I am unsure if it's worth it to use one to build Kairos, keep two plain LOCs, or see if it's possible to exchange one to finish off an army.  Is it at all possible to magnetize Kairos? Has anyone tried?

[CountryMou3e]

6 hours ago, mmimzie said:

I think you'll find your hero limit is tied to how many good spells you can cast in a turn. 

 

Basicly, I'd take heros as needed to drop 6 wounds of character or whole units a turn.

 

For instance looking at the LoC his on personal spell when cast does and average of 6 wounds which tends to be enough to 1 shot most on foot heros at ranged.

 

So look at there spells and think about how that is going to out in units kills. 

Cursling, fatemaster, GS with familiars, Shaman and blue scribes are in for me at the moment. With the additon of realm rules and the pendulum/swords/geminids- I hope to cover the needed mortal wound output whilst offer some support spells to boot. 

Turn one I’ll be trying to churn through 2x10 pinks 😁

[Magnus The Blue]

 

13 hours ago, Luke1705 said:

Has anyone tried big units of skyfires and/or enlightened with Kairos to ensure you don’t get screwed on fold reality? It’s been a while since I’ve played tzeentch

One of the most successful Tzeentch builds in AoS 2.0 has revolved around 9 enlightened on disks,  Kairos and fold reality (cast by Kairos with fate dice to make it nigh unstoppable). Regularly returning enlightened with some decent screening and spells to snipe herps, can carve through most lists like a knife through butter. 

Kairos' spell is also really nice,  free spawn (usually retreating from combat so they last into the opponent's turn)  can really slow down opponents battle plans.

[Kharneth]

@Pandamina How do you plan to kill threats with only Bolt of Tzeentch and Enlightened? I don't mean to criticize, I'm fairly new to Tzeentch, but your list seems to lack potency if the 6 enlightened are your most powerful unit and if what mmimzie says is true. I'm sure they are good, but other than them you've just got a lot of shooting attacks. 

I like Glimpse the Future, but it has not been a huge benefit for me. I see it as an extra 5 destiny dice, but it's the first 2 or 3 that matter and though the spell is never truly wasted, if it isn't either a 6 or a 1 than it's usually not significant. You might consider replacing a Fold Reality with something offensive, too. 

In my experience summoning can be difficult if you can't clear spaces. 

[Kharneth]

Tomorrow I will be battling Stormcast Eternals in 1,000 points and I know almost nothing about them. He knows I am bringing DoT.

What are some units and strategies that SE employ against Tzeentch that I should be aware of and what can I do to minimize the negative impact? How can I distinguish between the units that I should focus my damage on versus the units I should focus my screens on? 

From what I understand it seems like the majority of SE are elite infantry and their weaponry is what determines their role. Are there particular units that I should recognize as "fodder," "anvil," and "hammer"? 

I know that SE can be used in a large variety of ways, but I've noticed that one of the most important factors in determining my success with DoT is my ability to prioritize targets. I need to cast spells at targets that are highly destructive but not exceptionally durable. Failing to determine the appropriate targets results in my forces being overwhelmed. Since I don't know when I'll be facing them again I'd like to make the most out of the 5 turns I will have. 

I'm thinking any ranged units he takes would be a serious threat. 

For reference I will be brining a LoC (MotC), Gaunt Summoner (Arcane Sacrifice), 10 Pink Horrors, 2x10 Acolytes, Quicksilver Swords, and Chronomantic Cogs. 

Edited December 17, 2018 by Kharneth

[Pandamina]

13 minutes ago, Kharneth said:

Tomorrow I will be battling Stormcast Eternals in 1,000 points and I know almost nothing about them. He knows I am bringing DoT.

What are some units and strategies that SE employ against Tzeentch that I should be aware of and what can I do to minimize the negative impact? How can I distinguish between the units that I should focus my damage on versus the units I should focus my screens on? 

From what I understand it seems like the majority of SE are elite infantry and their weaponry is what determines their role. Are there particular units that I should recognize as "fodder," "anvil," and "hammer"? 

I know that SE can be used in a large variety of ways, but I've noticed that one of the most important factors in determining my success with DoT is my ability to prioritize targets. I need to cast spells at targets that are highly destructive but not exceptionally durable. Failing to determine the appropriate targets results in my forces being overwhelmed. Since I don't know when I'll be facing them again I'd like to make the most out of the 5 turns I will have. 

I'm thinking any ranged units he takes would be a serious threat. 

For reference I will be brining a LoC, Gaunt Summoner, 10 Pink Horrors, 2x10 Acolytes, Quicksilver Swords, and Chronomantic Cogs. 

So how do you plan to kill threats? Vs Sacrosanct (and it's main SCE force right now) magic is almost useless, as they tend to have at least two (likely more) casters/unbinders, and knight-incantor to auto unbind your crucial spell if you have one. And if your opponent knows about you bringing DoT, he can just use Hallowed Knights to negate your offensive spells on 6+. Also shooting is very popular indeed, to the point where your LoC might be severly damaged or killed on the first turn with knight-ordinator and two ballistas. You don't want to let your opponent have first turn in that case, but you can't do anything on your first turn without spellportal or arcane sacrifice.

I'll give you an example of SCE army i played recently:

Spoiler

Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals
- Stormhost: Hallowed Knights

Leaders
Lord-Ordinator (140)
Lord-Arcanum (180)
- General

Battleline
5 x Sequitors (120)
- Stormsmite Mauls and Soulshields
5 x Judicators (160)
- Skybolt Bows
- x Shockbolt Bows

Units
5 x Evocators (200)

War Machines
Celestar Ballista (100)
Celestar Ballista (100)

Total: 1000 / 1000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 200
Wounds: 60
 

 

[Kharneth]

1 hour ago, Pandamina said:

So how do you plan to kill threats? Vs Sacrosanct (and it's main SCE force right now) magic is almost useless, as they tend to have at least two (likely more) casters/unbinders, and knight-incantor to auto unbind your crucial spell if you have one. And if your opponent knows about you bringing DoT, he can just use Hallowed Knights to negate your offensive spells on 6+. Also shooting is very popular indeed, to the point where your LoC might be severly damaged or killed on the first turn with knight-ordinator and two ballistas. You don't want to let your opponent have first turn in that case, but you can't do anything on your first turn without spellportal or arcane sacrifice.

I mean, the only plan I have is my generic plan since I don't know what to expect. That's why I'm here. 

Frankly, I don't know what any of those things are. I'm  guessing sacrosanct is a battalion. If he shuts down my magic than I'm going to lose, that's just a fact of my army. 

I usually kill elite threats with Infernal Gateway and Bolt of Tzeentch while I deal with numerous threats with Infernal Flames. 

Do his casters get any bonuses to their unbinding? How does the knight-incantor auto unbind work? Do Hallowed Knights negate spells that are directed at them or any? Is this a single-use ability or like an aura? 

Is a knight-ordinator a character or a unit and what makes it so threatening? In terms of ranged threats, are ballistas the most valuable targets? 

I do have arcane sacrifice, but the 9" range isn't going to be a big thing in this game because his spell isn't going to be great against them. I can do quite a lot on my first turn, actually, though I prefer going second to prevent the enemy from getting a double turn on me early on. 

Also, Pandamina, in regards to my response to your army list. My army list uses Infernal Gateway to deal avg 6 mortal wounds, Bolt of Tzeentch to deal avg 3.5 mortal wounds, plus Infernal Flames to deal 1 mortal wound to 50% of a single unit. I can dump nearly 10 mortal wounds on a single target and I can do 5+ mortal wounds to any unit with 10 or more models. This is the damage output I have access to in my list and in my experience it is not very potent. I get by, but I don't deal crazy amounts of damage to my enemy. When I read your list I felt like it had less killing power than my list, which I feel already lacks killing power. So my question "how do you plan to kill threats" was not meant as criticism, it's a genuine concern. With 20 pink horrors and the pendulum you do have a lot of summoning potential, but if you don't have sufficient killing power (per turn) than you might end up with more summonable units than you can make use of. 

Edited December 17, 2018 by Kharneth

[Pandamina]

8 minutes ago, Kharneth said:

I mean, the only plan I have is my generic plan since I don't know what to expect. That's why I'm here. 

Frankly, I don't know what any of those things are. I'm  guessing sacrosanct is a battalion. If he shuts down my magic than I'm going to lose, that's just a fact of my army. 

I usually kill elite threats with Infernal Gateway and Bolt of Tzeentch while I deal with numerous threats with Infernal Flames. 

Do his casters get any bonuses to their unbinding? How does the knight-incantor auto unbind work? Do Hallowed Knights negate spells that are directed at them or any? Is this a single-use ability or like an aura? 

Is a knight-ordinator a character or a unit and what makes it so threatening? In terms of ranged threats, are ballistas the most valuable targets? 

I do have arcane sacrifice, but the 9" range isn't going to be a big thing in this game because his spell isn't going to be great against them. I can do quite a lot on my first turn, actually, though I prefer going second to prevent the enemy from getting a double turn on me early on. 

SCE warscrolls are free to explore at https://www.warhammer-community.com/warscroll-builder/. You can find them by names i gave you in the spoiler.

Sacrosanct is a subfaction, for example we have TZEENTCH keyword, and they have SACROSANCT. Hallowed Knights is a chamber, something like space marine chapter. We don't have such things in our battletome yet, but it's basically army wide buff with the restriction of command trait and artifact. There is no battalion in my example as you can see. 

They just have plenty of unbind attempts. Auto unbind works like it should be, instead of unbinding attempt you just unbind spell without any rolls. Hallowed Knights negate directed spells, it's an army wide passive ability and it's scary enough.

Lord Ordinator (yea i screwed his name) is a character and he is threatening indeed, as he buffs one ballista with extra shot command ability and  has +1 to hit aura. And they can be deep striked so you can't possibly harm them until they shoot at least once.

So what exactly would you do in your first turn? I am interested. And you should write your artefact and command trait along with your units, that would be quite helpful.

[Pandamina]

Btw i know you guys are veterans here, so how would counter this list? I am having hard time with it, so i switched from offensive build to summoning one.

Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals
- Stormhost: Hallowed Knights

Leaders
Lord-Arcanum (180)
- General
Knight-Incantor (140)

Battleline
5 x Sequitors (120)
- Stormsmite Mauls and Soulshields
5 x Judicators (160)
- Skybolt Bows

Units
5 x Evocators (200)
5 x Evocators (200)

Total: 1000 / 1000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 200
Wounds: 61
 

[Kharneth]

24 minutes ago, Pandamina said:

SCE warscrolls are free to explore at https://www.warhammer-community.com/warscroll-builder/. You can find them by names i gave you in the spoiler.

Sacrosanct is a subfaction, for example we have TZEENTCH keyword, and they have SACROSANCT. Hallowed Knights is a chamber, something like space marine chapter. We don't have such things in our battletome yet, but it's basically army wide buff with the restriction of command trait and artifact. There is no battalion in my example as you can see. 

They just have plenty of unbind attempts. Auto unbind works like it should be, instead of unbinding attempt you just unbind spell without any rolls. Hallowed Knights negate directed spells, it's an army wide passive ability and it's scary enough.

Lord Ordinator (yea i screwed his name) is a character and he is threatening indeed, as he buffs one ballista with extra shot command ability and  has +1 to hit aura. And they can be deep striked so you can't possibly harm them until they shoot at least once.

So what exactly would you do in your first turn? I am interested. And you should write your artefact and command trait along with your units, that would be quite helpful.

I did take a look at the warscrolls after your response and found some answers. There are sooo many options, it'll be hard to know what he'll pick. 

The auto unbind is once per game, which is much less scary than I was expecting. I have lots of scary spells haha. I found Hallowed Knights, I thought they were a unit but they're actually just subfactions. I'm sure he'll add anti-magic stuff, I'm not sure if he'll dedicate his entire army to it. I have no idea how his army looks when it doesn't know it's facing DoT.

Thanks for giving me some keywords to investigate, the SCE book has a lot! 

Arcane Sacrifice on the Gaunt Summoner and Mark of the Conjurer on LoC.

This is my pretty generic first turn:

Lord of Change provides +1 to cast by spending a command point. Gaunt Summoner sacrifices d3 Pink Horrors with Arcane Sacrifice. Gaunt Summoner casts Glimpse the Future (if I haven't used a destiny die I'll wait to cast this until then, but I'll spend a DD of 3 or 4 during my hero phase if I go first). Gaunt Summoner casts Infernal Flames if there's more than 1 enemy within range or Arcane Bolt if there's only 1 enemy. LoC casts Quicksilver Swords and kills avg 4 Pink Horrors. LoC casts Chronomantic Cogs and then uses it to cast an additional spell (mystic shield or he'll waste an out of range offensive spell for the fate points). Pink Horrors cast either mystic shield or fold reality, depending. If I have a couple 1s for DD and I didn't lose 7+ Pink Horrors I won't risk Fold Reality this early.

When everything is said and done I have 9 Fate points and, on average I've slain 6 Pink Horrors and acquired 12 blue horror points, which gives me the option of summoning 10 blue horrors and saving some fate points for flamers or summoning 20 blue horrors after I move. This is only when things go according to plan and I have not yet faced an enemy that reliably unbinds my spells. 

I'm still getting better at my movement and screening, but I basically split the enemy into 2 forces in my head. Force A is the stuff I am going to try to kill and Force B is the stuff I am going to feed my screens to. Not a lot happens during my turn 1 if I go first. 

Against SCE, if he deepstrikes a large bulk of his army my first turn is going to be spent trying to deny him positions. 

Edited December 17, 2018 by Kharneth

[Pandamina]

36 minutes ago, Kharneth said:

I did take a look at the warscrolls after your response and found some answers. There are sooo many options, it'll be hard to know what he'll pick. 

The auto unbind is once per game, which is much less scary than I was expecting. I have lots of scary spells haha. I found Hallowed Knights, I thought they were a unit but they're actually just subfactions. I'm sure he'll add anti-magic stuff, I'm not sure if he'll dedicate his entire army to it. I have no idea how his army looks when it doesn't know it's facing DoT.

Thanks for giving me some keywords to investigate, the SCE book has a lot! 

Arcane Sacrifice on the Gaunt Summoner and Mark of the Conjurer on LoC.

This is my pretty generic first turn:

Lord of Change provides +1 to cast by spending a command point. Gaunt Summoner sacrifices d3 Pink Horrors with Arcane Sacrifice. Gaunt Summoner casts Glimpse the Future (if I haven't used a destiny die I'll wait to cast this until then, but I'll spend a DD of 3 or 4 during my hero phase if I go first). Gaunt Summoner casts Infernal Flames if there's more than 1 enemy within range or Arcane Bolt if there's only 1 enemy. LoC casts Quicksilver Swords and kills avg 4 Pink Horrors. LoC casts Chronomantic Cogs and then uses it to cast an additional spell (mystic shield or he'll waste an out of range offensive spell for the fate points). Pink Horrors cast either mystic shield or fold reality, depending. If I have a couple 1s for DD and I didn't lose 7+ Pink Horrors I won't risk Fold Reality this early.

When everything is said and done I have 9 Fate points and, on average I've slain 6 Pink Horrors and acquired 12 blue horror points, which gives me the option of summoning 10 blue horrors and saving some fate points for flamers or summoning 20 blue horrors after I move. This is only when things go according to plan and I have not yet faced an enemy that reliably unbinds my spells. 

I'm still getting better at my movement and screening, but I basically split the enemy into 2 forces in my head. Force A is the stuff I am going to try to kill and Force B is the stuff I am going to feed my screens to. Not a lot happens during my turn 1 if I go first. 

Against SCE, if he deepstrikes a large bulk of his army my first turn is going to be spent trying to deny him positions. 

If he is a competitive player he'll pick sacrosanct, and if he is not, than there is no point in discussing, because older units are garbage and they are literally your best match up, because they don't have casters at all. Game will likely be decided round two, after first double turn or its absence, so even one auto unbind is enough. SCE Sacrosanct army is looking almost the same all the time (evocators or ballistas), thats why they are so OP. Against non-magical army it just wouldn't be Hallow Knights. 

Mark of the conjurer is really bad here, because even with cogs it's just 3 more points on the first turn and than your spells will be unbinded (assuming you are out of range of unbind on your first turn) or LoC killed, as he is the main target of all shooting. Same with sacrifice on Gaunt Summoner, who is a bad choice on it's own, because his signature spell is useless against SCE. You know that he targets only one unit, and not all units, right? 

Against ballistas screen would be useless, as they have 18" range, so you should hope for evocators heavy list lol. But still this would be very tough.

As of your remark about damage in my list, after couple of games you would learn, that killing stuff isn't always best option, especially when you can't kill a thing with spells in opponent's army.

[mmimzie]

@Kharneth knight indicators get a once per game auto unbund. 

 

@Pandamina those once per game scrolls can be annoying but that doesnt mean you lose on the spot. With 6 spells at 1kpts vs only a one maybe 2 knight incantors (they are 140 pts each). Even bringing more that really doesnt shut down all but a single turn. 

 

 

 

Using magic in AoS is like playing a hand of poker where you pick your cards, but pay for them. If you show up with a cheap less that strong hands you are going to get shut out by any other weak or better hand. However if you show up in force, in which tzneetch brings the most powerful magic phases in the game... than your magic phase will be near unstoppable. Even a few knight incantors will be but minor announcances. 

 

While, looking at your list compared to the one you posted. I feel like your enlightend just wont hit hard enough to kill an evocator unit with a lord arcanum near by same goes for the sequaitors.  While the ballista can drop several enlightend a turn. 

 

But again if your list is doing well as is then, it's doing well. There is definitly no need to shoot down everyone trying to offer any advice when you posted your list asking for criticism. 

 

As for beating the list you posted I'd go for more focus. Either harder on the tzaangors or harder on the magic. At 1k pts splitting your focus doesnt work out as well as focusing on one or the other. 

 

For instance 9 enlightend can quickly reach out and drop a unit of evocators. While the powerful reroll ability Is good, it's more a defensive deterrent than being the sole reason for bringing the unit.  So 9 is better in that it pack a stronger initial punch, while 9 are enough model to survive heavy damage and still have model left to stack back with rerolls. From there you can back them up with maybe a few wizards or tzaangor. 

 

Or go heavy magic. Gaunt summoner packing bolt of change and his base spell. His base spell doing am average 2.5 mortal wounds while bolt of change packs an average 3.5 mortals (not facotimg casting values). Then add in a lord of change his spell before wounds bring an average 6 mortal wounds and have him also packing firestorm which is an average 4 mortal wounds, while his command ability buffs your spell powers. From there a unit of horrors and quick silver swords to kill them with wouldnt be a bad idea.  Between the two of them they can kill a squad or two a turn, while the pink horrors work the swords and fold reality to help you farm a small bit of value. 

[Pandamina]

Which list with 9 enlightened and tzaangors you will advice me then? Evocators in that instance are in deep strike, so i can't kill them.

I've tried magic heavy lists and they are plain bad against it, with that amount of unbind attempts and hallowed knights.

[Kharneth]

@Pandamina I have no doubt that my list is not the best list for my opponent, but I am trying to consistently play the same list. I like it and it seems to have potential so I'm trying to get as much experience as I can with it before my 1,000 point tournament in Feb. 

I know the worst to expect, though. A single auto unbind is not so bad, but 6+ to ignore a spell could be annoying. I only have 2 important offensive spells since the gaunts is bad. 

If he has a unit of 10 it'll be the gaunts target, otherwise I think I'll actually keep him in the back with the pink horrors using arcane sacrifice to assist summons and just get my glimpse off reliably. 

If he takes a mostly shooty army I would be pretty worried. I think I might try to hang back with the LoC for a couple turns while I fill up ranks of fodder hoping I can engage him in combat and not die faster than I'm able to summon. But I don't know, I mean if he takes a bunch of shooting units than all he has to do is kill 2 characters and it's over.

[mmimzie]

59 minutes ago, Pandamina said:

Which list with 9 enlightened and tzaangors you will advice me then? Evocators in that instance are in deep strike, so i can't kill them.

I've tried magic heavy lists and they are plain bad against it, with that amount of unbind attempts and hallowed knights.

Ogroid (glimpse )

Tzaangor shaman (fold reality)

9 enlightend on disc

2x 10 katic acolytes

+60pts for whatever you want.

 

Tzaangor shaman is whatever wizard that has access to the daemon tree. He also gets that once per game rerollable extra spell. He could also be  a herald on disc if you wanted 10 more kairic acolytes. 

 

Ogroid let's you cheese out the enlightend. Letting you charge, and use the brims first in combat, forcing your opponents one unit to attack and activate rerolls. 

 

9 enlightend on disc while the above sounds nice you want these guys charging in and striking first if they have to. The above is more of a luxury idea. The 9 enlightend should be able to wipe out the evocators and sequitors on contact in a single turn going first. 

 

Lastly you have 60 extra pts. as above you can add more kairics if you bust the shaman down. If you drop the shaman entirely you could take pink horrors.  You could take the pendulum since the shaman is fast and can throw it in somes ones face.  Prismatic palisades would potentially help against the ballista. 

 

Personally I prefer the magic list even knowing your going against those stormcast. 

[Kharneth]

34 minutes ago, mmimzie said:

Personally I prefer the magic list even knowing your going against those stormcast. 

What would you bring and do with a magic heavy list? If I had an Ogroid I'd probably swap out the summoner for him. I'm very tempted to swap cogs for the portal, but I'm not even sure if he'll be shooting. 

[Pandamina]

2 hours ago, mmimzie said:

Ogroid (glimpse )

Tzaangor shaman (fold reality)

9 enlightend on disc

2x 10 katic acolytes

+60pts for whatever you want.

 

Tzaangor shaman is whatever wizard that has access to the daemon tree. He also gets that once per game rerollable extra spell. He could also be  a herald on disc if you wanted 10 more kairic acolytes. 

 

Ogroid let's you cheese out the enlightend. Letting you charge, and use the brims first in combat, forcing your opponents one unit to attack and activate rerolls. 

 

9 enlightend on disc while the above sounds nice you want these guys charging in and striking first if they have to. The above is more of a luxury idea. The 9 enlightend should be able to wipe out the evocators and sequitors on contact in a single turn going first. 

 

Lastly you have 60 extra pts. as above you can add more kairics if you bust the shaman down. If you drop the shaman entirely you could take pink horrors.  You could take the pendulum since the shaman is fast and can throw it in somes ones face.  Prismatic palisades would potentially help against the ballista. 

 

Personally I prefer the magic list even knowing your going against those stormcast. 

I don't really see an idea here. Should i go first? Then i can't cast anything offensive and enlightened couldn't charge, because again half of my opponent's army is in deep strike and another half is out of range. Then i should probably go second and hide my enlightened behind acolytes. So why should i ever bother with unit size? Unit of 6 enlightened will kill unit of 5 evocators with rerolls. 

Palisade is useless when ballistas are deep striking.