AoS 2 - Flesh-eater Courts Discussion

[CDM]

Is there a discussion anywhere about FEC wishlisting for a model expansion?

[Honk]

15 hours ago, CDM said:

Is there a discussion anywhere about FEC wishlisting for a model expansion?

Not to my knowledge…

After reading your comment, I started thinking, and thinking. The range is the slimmest out there, one line + 2 elite + four courtiers, 2 kings on mount and the two foot kings…

that is even slimmer than a fireslayer thong 

but how and with what would you like to expand the range, without making one choice obsolete or going into a us too direction.

i thought about bats, fast objective grabber, but SB has them, sooo kinda boring

a big 250-300 point hero? Well with the naked attitude it won’t last and between the aar and a varghulf, I‘m not sure what I need, since I‘d rather take a GkoTg suicide rocket

Cheaper chaff would throw out the ghouls, with the low save and high rend in the meta, heavy infantry is not cutting it

i‘d love to see horrors get a good warscroll… Regeneration of killed models on a 4+ or something 

[Liquidsteel]

To be honest what you said kind of sparked something.

Maybe a unit that WAS better armoured, perhaps encased in some sort of bone armour.

It goes against the theme of naked mad-things, but perhaps the bone armour could provide a 4+ Ward on top of slightly better save, as it's believed to be a holy relic or something.

Could be a hero to limit availability, and operate in the 300 point space.

Alternatively they could just bring out Ushoran!

[Honk]

5 minutes ago, Liquidsteel said:

Alternatively they could just bring out Ushoran!

Well… yes, that is of course a given 🤣

Horrors with a 4+ ward 😍

Auto-returning slain models on a 4+ if ww 12“ of an abhorrent ?

talks about a court-jester were once a thing, I’d love extra protection on our heroes. -1 hit or ablative wounds or +1 cast for 40-65 points (old world item style)
 

Give the Ghast Courtier a buffing ability, similar to the nurgle piper, so ghouls are relevant, beyond fodder

 

On the other handside, FEC is a min-max list, never had variety, so if GDubs has an interesting idea (which I dread right now) they might go for it

[CDM]

I'd love to see them go full on with the demented knightly court thing! Just looking at the FEC underworld warband gives some inspiration but they need to go further.

Knights. Bone armoured ghouls riding horrors.

Elite warriors with fleshy chainmail and skull helmets.

Trebuchet or ballista. Launching dead body's using a tendon and sinew.

Loads of scope for great characters and hero models. Dressed to impress in their finest flayed skin and offal. Banner bearers as well.

Triumph of ushoran . Think saint Katherine but copious amounts of gore!

A big wave for FEC and ascnond wave for bonereapers and death is in an amazing place.

 

 

[JackStreicher]

1 hour ago, CDM said:

I'd love to see them go full on with the demented knightly court thing! Just looking at the FEC underworld warband gives some inspiration but they need to go further.

Knights. Bone armoured ghouls riding horrors.

Elite warriors with fleshy chainmail and skull helmets.

Trebuchet or ballista. Launching dead body's using a tendon and sinew.

Loads of scope for great characters and hero models. Dressed to impress in their finest flayed skin and offal. Banner bearers as well.

Triumph of ushoran . Think saint Katherine but copious amounts of gore!

A big wave for FEC and ascnond wave for bonereapers and death is in an amazing place.

 

 

100% this.

I really don't get why they're doing nothing with FEC when it could easily be one of the signature Factions for AoS since the concept is really unique and easily expandable.

[CDM]

3 hours ago, JackStreicher said:

100% this.

I really don't get why they're doing nothing with FEC when it could easily be one of the signature Factions for AoS since the concept is really unique and easily expandable.

It's strange because they were a big hit in 1.5! Very popular lore that everyone has heard if but they clearly had no model plans

[Honk]

4 hours ago, JackStreicher said:
I really don't get why they're doing nothing with FEC when it could easily be one of the signature Factions for AoS since the concept is really unique and easily expandable.

No pointy ears tree hugging daffodil munchers…

when the R&D is not enthusiastic, you gotta play with the hand dealt

[Tomplex]

Hmm.

Looking at the FEC roster it looks like we're missing

 

Peasant archers

Mounted yeoman

Damsels

Trebuchet 

Foot squires

Battle pilgrims

Grail relaque 

Knight variants

 

Now obviously using tools beyond simple bone is against the FEC ethos, so creating approximates of the above is difficult. Unless you lean into the reality warping effects of the delusion.

 

Imagine instead of ghouls using bone bows or throwing spears we create ghouls who are so deluded into their belief that they are archers they can manifest and hurl bolts of necrotic energy, something like kairic acolytes of Tzeentch. 

 

Instead of uparmored crypt horrors with bone plate as grail knights we create horrors so convinced of their station they clad themselves in smoking and or dripping armor of pure shadow and wield swords of congealed death magic.

 

I honestly think FEC is the best faction in death to place some actual priests. Their power and curse is pure, twisted faith. Damsels, pilgrims, whatever. 

 

A ghoul borne grail relaque that's a hideous trophy of bone and rotten meat as a buff or debuff support unit would be ace. 

 

And I'd love to see FEC share wolves and bats with soulblight as the mounted yeoman equivalents. Or a subfaction that can affect them as allies. Just gotta print some new boxes for those kits and job's a good un.

 

I have no idea how to hammer the concept of a Trebuchet into the FEC. Might have to let that one go, or maybe a dual kit with the relaque that lobs death bolts.

 

Some special characters would be nice, especially the big guy himself.

[Honk]

Having a tournament, let’s say a Joust coming up next month…

Gristlegore

AAR (spectral host) + 2x GoTg (Mawshard, spells monstrous vigor or flaming weapon)

9x Ghouls

Chalice and Palisades 

1990

Throw the rabble at the objectives and charge the Sonz of the Lady into the enemy… 

Any thoughts?

double gheist charge should keep the enemy busy and the rabble scores. If one unit gets hit, well, tough luck there are others still claiming the objectives… the palisades slows/blocks a flank and the chalice heals the GkoTg if in range 

Edited September 21, 2022 by Honk

[Sception]

On 9/21/2022 at 2:03 PM, Tomplex said:

Hmm.

Looking at the FEC roster it looks like we're missing...
 

Peasant archers - unlikely to see a direct equivalent going forward, I'd mix them in with men-at-arms as regular ghouls

Mounted yeoman - nothing in-faction - fingers crossed for wolf or bat mounted ghouls in the future.  In the mean time, you could ally in dire wolves, black knights, or hexwraiths, and convert ghouls-on-wolves to represent them.

Damsels - on foot, ghoul courtiers are a reasonable substitute, especially with the arcane tome.  fingers crossed for dedicated ghoul support caster / court mage advisors in the future.

Trebuchet - nothing in faction or via allies, nor anything likely going forward, sadly.

Foot squires - I'd roll these in with men at arms and peasant archers as more regular ghouls, but you could pull in sbgl vyrkos bloodborn allies to represent foot knights, foot squires, or other semi-elite smallish base infantry.

Battle pilgrims - as per foot squires

Grail relaque - size and shape of a knight hero, in a stretch you could run this as one of the big base courtiers.  Personally, though, I'd incorporate it into some sort of scenic terrain situation.

Knight variants - well, pegasus knights vs. not pegasus knights is covered by flayers vs. horrors.  Minor differences between errant and realm knights could simply be used to distinguish one unit from another, while the fancier non-pegasus knights - questing & grail - could represent horror champs and heroes.  a lot of the above are real sticking points, but I don't think knight variants are any more significant than equipment variants on men at arms.  The latter are still just crypt ghouls, the former are still just crypt horrors.

.......

[bonzai]

On 9/19/2022 at 10:08 AM, CDM said:

Is there a discussion anywhere about FEC wishlisting for a model expansion?

My wishlisting:

1. Courtier combo kits. No more robbing our boxes of models to make our Courtiers and having under strength units. Furthermore I want to see each Courtier being a dual kit for a second option

Crypt ghast or Court Vizier: the second option being a cheap goul caster that doesn't replenish units like a Courtier. Maybe give them the option to forgo casting for a turn to provide a casting bonus to an abhorrant, which would cap at a +2 from multiple Viziers. Visually it could be something as simple as alternate arms with a staff and or book to differentiate between the two.

Crypt Haunter or Bannerman: the second option being a totem with an aura that improves the rend of nearby knights and serfs instead of replenishing units. Visually it would swap a back piece for a long bone protrusion coming from it's spine that is adorned with skulls and flayed skin.

Crypt Infernal or Herald: the second option having a very potent mortal wound dealing scream attack instead of replenishing units. I am talking warp lighting cannon level of deadly. Visually it's mouth and neck would be different, showing them puffed up and bellowing. 

Varghulf Courtier or Court Champion: the second option would be even more of a smash bat and have the ability to make monstrous rampages instead replenishing units. Visually I am picturing some crude armor plates and chains and manicls that give it crowd sweeping attacks. 

2. One named character for each subfaction, plus 2 more. Also, I am terrible at fantasy names, so please excuse the nick names.

Beat Stick Bob: the patriarch of the Hollowmourne. As the name implies, be would literally be a beatstick. I picture him being like Bastion, and healing up at the drop of a hat. Therefore the opponent has to focus on him or he will be back to full health in no time. Visually I  see a large gluttonous Abhorrent, with a large belly, big jowls, stringy and patchy hair, a dirty loin cloth, crown of bones, and wielding a Gargant femur as a huge club. Flavor wise, he is a jovial and portly king that see the world as friendly tournaments and grand feasts. In reality he is a ravenous fiend in battle, that constantly feasts upon his enemies in battle.

Burnt Betty, high priestess of the light: the matriarch of the Blisterskin. She can fly, and is a priest with a reroll. Her prayer let's her shoot a ray of pure light that deals d3 mortals with a bonus +2 vs death units. Plus she would have access to generic prayers, which would let us get Curse. Visually I picture a bald, naked female forward with a pair of semi tattered wings sprouting from her back. However every inch of her flesh is charred and  crackling. Flavor wise she is the most fanatical and dedicated in her faith in the light, flying higher and longer in the sunlight than anyone else. Alnost to the point of immoliation.To the mordant, she is a living Saint and explar. In reality she is a manic harpy that doesn't quit. 

George the general: the patriarch of the Morguant. He will be an upgrade sprue for a zombie dragon. His main shtick is that he when he issues commands, he can effect 3 units at once. Visually he will be a slightly better armored ghoul king with a nasty looking spear. Flavor wise he is the FEC's ace commander. 

Sigfried the beast tamer: patriarch of Gristlegore. His main ability will be pregame moves for a couple units. Visually he will be a muscular Ghoul king with pelts, and 2 massive ghouled hunting hounds with him. Flavor wise he is an amazing hunter that has a menagerie of trained beasts that help him in his hunts.

Jack, the jester of Ushoran: as his name implies he is part of Ushoran's original court. He will be a more tricky and tactical character. He can start in reserve and pop out of a terrain piece or board edge. He can retreat and charge, -1 to hit him in melee, and has a rule where he can try and goad a unit to charge him and no one else in the charge phase. Visually I picture a ghoulish vampire stuffed into a ratty and ill fitting jester outfit with a fool's stave. Flavor wise he is ancient, and remembers how things were before they were cursed. The irony is that he is the only member of his bloodline to remain completely lucid. This isn't to say that he is completely sane. Seeing his vampiric family devolve into insane cannibals has made him angry and more than a little unhinged. Worse, no matter how loud he screams or passionately pleads to them, they always interpret his words as some great joke, or biting satire. Bound to Ushoran through the power of his blood, he has become bitter and jaded as well.

Ushoran, the Rogue Mortarch: he is our big boy. A bruiser of an abhorrant. He can replenish units like a Varghulf, but rolls extra dice. Once per game he can return a slain unit, and his command ability is the same as an Arch Regent, but can summon a Ghoul king as well.

3. Other units?

Bat Swarms: They were squatted out of Soulblight, so they are fair game for us. I seem them as flyers, able to deepstrike out of reserve. Cheap, 6 wounds 3 bases per unit. 6 attacks, 6's to hit, 6's to hit, 1 damage. Casters and priests subtract 1 from their rolls to get off Spells and prayers while in combat with them. Pure Chaffe speed bumps. 

Those would be my current wishlist units.

Edited October 12, 2022 by bonzai

[Sception]

my own wish list:

stolen from SBGL: dire wolves & fell bats

new kits for existing units:

* ghoul courtier

* dual kit horrer/infernal courtier

* plastic varghulf

new units:

* ghoul support caster / court advisor

* elite ghoul "Yoemen" dedicated infiltrators/trappers

* ghouls riding dire wolves or fell bats "mounted Yoemen"

* 1+ named characters, especially the Carrion King, preferably as a big dioramma type model

Aesthetic wishes for any/all new kits

* Convey the delusions in the models themselves.  not just slavering bitey guys mindlessly rushing forward - give them regal robes of skinned hide, crowns & swords of broken bone, scavenged scraps of armor, more upright postures, ugly monstrous faces but with pompas condescending expressions, messengers carrying tatters of cloth with nonsense scrawled on it in blood, have the horror courtier carrying a dead horse head stuck on a broken pike between its legs as an imaginary steed, etc etc.  the lore of delusions is amazing, but it needs new models to bring it to life on the table.

Edited October 12, 2022 by Sception

[CDM]

6 minutes ago, Sception said:

my own wish list:

stolen from SBGL: dire wolves & fell bats

new kits for existing units:

* ghoul courtier

* dual kit horrer/infernal courtier

* plastic varghulf

new units:

* elite ghoul "Yoemen" dedicated infiltrators/trappers

* ghouls riding dire wolves or fell bats "mounted Yoemen"

* 1+ named characters, especially the Carrion King, preferably as a big dioramma type model

Aesthetic wishes for any/all new kits

* Convey the delusions in the models themselves.  not just slavering bitey guys mindlessly rushing forward - give them regal robes of skinned hide, crowns & swords of broken bone, scavenged scraps of armor, more upright postures, ugly monstrous faces but with pompas condescending expressions, messengers carrying tatters of cloth with nonsense scrawled on it in blood, have the horror courtier carrying a dead horse head stuck on a broken pike between its legs as an imaginary steed, etc etc.  the lore of delusions is amazing, but it needs new models to bring it to life on the table.

Yeah I want to see those aesthetic changes as well. I want to be able to see the delucuon on the model. With bone armour, skin rags  and offell quivers!

[Sception]

I also wouldn't mind the /removal/ of the ghoul king on foot unit - or rather combining 'ghoul king' and 'abhorrant archregent' into a single unit, with abilities closer to the latter.  I just don't see a point to having both of these in the same faction, it's basically just "Daniel / the Cooler Danial" meme.  We don't need both 'bad/weak ghoul king on foot' and 'good/useful ghoul king on foot' in the same army.

If they do opt to keep both, I hope they differentiate them somehow.  "I cast one spell per turn and have a buff spell vs. I cast 2 spells per turn and have a better buff spell", "I summon ghouls vs. I summon the same ghouls only more of them", "I can sort of fight in melee but not good enough that you ever want to put me there vs. I can fight a bit better than that guy, but still not enough better that you ever want to put me there" is, again, just "a guy vs. exactly the same guy but better".  You can't even argue points efficiencies, since the stronger summon swallows the difference in cost between them.  If they're going to persist as different units, then they need to have different jobs, not the same job that one of them just does twice as good.

Again, though, my preference would be to not have them as separate units to begin with.  I thought that sort of 'hero vs. lord version of the same guy' distinction was left behind in oldhammer.  After all, we don't have necromancers and master necromancers anymore, or vampire counts and vampire lords, etc.

Edited October 16, 2022 by Sception

[Lucentia]

Since the Ghoul King model is coming out of the monster kit so they can't just scrap him wholesale, I'd be tempted to redo his scroll so that he's the competent melee hero, compared to the arch regent's magic and summoning.  Make the King into a little mini Sigvald/Gotrek type murder missile that can sneak in and do decent damage, and he has a place I think, they could even re-flavour him as a Ghoul Prince, or even Court Champion, to distinguish further from the mounted Kings.

It's kind of interesting trying to come up with new units for this faction, cos the internal balance between the scrolls isn't bad, in that the units all have pretty clear roles and use cases compared to one another, just their stats and rules need bumping up to match the current game better.  But if I were to try and plan out a second wave I'd probably be considering some of the following:

-Battle standard bearer.  This is an easy win for a standalone hero, fits the theme, easy to imagine how the model might look, and the faction doesn't have many aura buffs of this type.

-Fast skirmish screens.  Could be bat swarms, could be ghouls on rotting horses or carrion dogs, whatever, just some fast cavalry bases would provide an obvious utility.

-Mini-monster cavalry.  I know the horrors and flayers are ostensibly providing the knightly role, but I'd like to see some more mounted sillhouettes in the army without it just being literally 'undead brettonia.'  I see these more in the stormdrake guard/pusgoyle blightlord space, very heavy cavalry, hulking, hideous grave-beasties, maybe even ridden by horror-sized knights, adding some toughness to the army with a chunky wounds characteristic.  There'd probably be a hero version in the box too, like the blightlords.

-Little ranged idiots?  I'm a little iffy on this, I agree that I don't think peasant archers or anything really fit, but I could see space for some javelin tossing ghouls hucking sharpened bones, etc.  I'm just not sure if a unit like that is really needed.

-Highborn/Crown guard.  This would be a ~5 model, elite infantry dual kit (potentially with a few extra bodies for squires/attendants).  The highborn would be the children/scions of the court nobles, mini-vampire combat monster competing with one another to earn favour and prestige via acts of bloodthirsty savagery.  The crown guard would be a defensive, shield/bodyguard unit of some sort.

-Another monster kit??  This is mostly just cos I like big monsters, but another monster dual kit (most likely just a named/unnamed variant as they don't really do the zombie dragon/terrorgheist style kits these days) wouldn't hurt.  This could also be some sort of fun character diorama kit, the Noble Council, or whatever, but I'd be wary of stepping on Katakros's toes within the same grand alliance.

[mojojojo101]

I think the only things I really want to see in a range expansion are

- The Carrion King for obvious reasons... a huge, horrifying visage of the delusion at its grandest and most horrifying please.

- A grail reliquae equivalent  - just a generalised buff wagon type thingy, although I'd like it to be reasonably big model, something more like The Triumph of St Katherine than the old Brettonia equivalent.

- A fast moving screen - I think some like hunting dog equivalent would be nice and fit with the idea of the army. If that just end up being Dire Wolves, fine, but I'd be happier with something... stranger.

 

Obviously the more the better, but those are the things I'd really like.

Rules wise, as long as I can keep my screaming across the field like a maniac, devouring the corpses2 of my enemies I'l be happy. Also, the Courtier's should have Deadly Coordination for their respective units.

[Sception]

On 10/17/2022 at 4:28 AM, Lucentia said:

Since the Ghoul King model is coming out of the monster kit so they can't just scrap him wholesale

Yeah, but they could change out the included 32mm base for a 40mm base and say that the monster kit ghoul king and the archregent are two different models for the same unit.

[Lucentia]

Sure, that's true!  Though from memory it'd be the first time they've ever done something like that, and realistically they're gonna want to keep selling the separate arch-regent kits, but if we're just wishlisting your solution is a good one.

[Sception]

all equivalent hero and lord models became different models for the same units in the transition from WHFB to AOS, so there's at least ~some~ precedent.  We've also had examples of units with different weapon options being split off into separate units then later recombined into the same unit with (or without) options again, iirc.  "Guardian of Souls with Mortality Glass" was originally a separate unit from "Guardian of Souls with Nightmare Lanturn," but later recombined as just an alternate model for the same unit - though that was a limited edition model so I don't think anyone expected the unit rules to stick around forever.  Then again, they might have, since I think people were expecting a new model for guardian of souls after the soul wars box was dropped, and if that had happened it could have been a dual kit.

So yeah, not a lot of precedent, but not none.

[zombiepiratexxx]

 

Abhorrant Ghoul King is this years Boxing Day model from GW, looks to be showing off a lot of the Rumour Engine posts. 

Edited December 12, 2022 by zombiepiratexxx

[bonzai]

1 hour ago, zombiepiratexxx said:

 

Abhorrant Ghoul King is this years Boxing Day model from GW, looks to be showing off a lot of the Rumour Engine posts. 

Love that we are getting attention!. 

[Sception]

The faction is missing key units.  the model range is missing key kits.  they're barely half a faction.  for the first new FEC model we've seen in a while to be a limited release - which thus deliberately adds nothing to the faction and nothing to the model range - is just frustraring.

Even if the model itself is pretty great.

[bonzai]

4 hours ago, Sception said:

The faction is missing key units.  the model range is missing key kits.  they're barely half a faction.  for the first new FEC model we've seen in a while to be a limited release - which thus deliberately adds nothing to the faction and nothing to the model range - is just frustraring.

Even if the model itself is pretty great.

Lol, my other army is Bonesplitterz. The only models that they have received since about 5th edition fantasy is an Underworlds warband. Great sculpts, but crappy rules. I am pretty sure that we and the Bonereapers are the two Death battle tomes coming out on the road ahead. The fact that they have a new model for us, gives me hope that there might be more on the way.

[Sception]

bonesplitters got rolled back into orcs.  you can run other new orc models alomgside your savage orcs if you want.  i would honestly have fewer complaints about the fec range if they had been reabsorbed into the gravelords.