AoS 2 - Flesh-eater Courts Discussion

[Honk]

1 hour ago, Lord marcus said:

Wouldn't the ghouls be ineffective at 10 men each?

Yes, 10 lone ghouls are not surviving against anything out there, maybe zombies. Their offensive is abysmal, too, Skellis would laugh at them.

But, as stated above by @Karragon ,they are battleline and are there for objective and board control purposes, while your King on Gheist destroys everything and 6 Flayer with regeneration are pretty scary too. In my lists now (not a tournament player thou) I often take an Infernal as general, to have another wizard and make my 2x6  flayers BL and then depending on left over points I take either one big blot of Ghouls or just min units to scuttle around as speedbumps and flank protection.

 

Ghouls are nice in a ghoul patrol list, coming from everywhere, dropping on objectives or in a morghaunt court 3x40 ghouls just flooding the board...

Back in the days I had a regeneration list with 2x40 ghouls and a lot of courtiers, just flooding the board and with 4d6 regeneration. After taking damage the ghouls just popped back up and spread all over the board.

But those times are gone to the power creep since a bunch of units can dish out over 20 damage a round and then battleshock takes the rest. the morghaunt court can resummon those on a 4+, but then I would not go for a 40 strong but for 2x20, since the extra attack is triggered earlier and the 50/50 on resummoning can trigger more often. the reemerging of a shooting meta also leaves our buffing heroes in troubles, especially stupid daffodil munchers with their indirect firing.

 

 

[Lord marcus]

16 hours ago, Honk said:

Yes, 10 lone ghouls are not surviving against anything out there, maybe zombies. Their offensive is abysmal, too, Skellis would laugh at them.

But, as stated above by @Karragon ,they are battleline and are there for objective and board control purposes, while your King on Gheist destroys everything and 6 Flayer with regeneration are pretty scary too. In my lists now (not a tournament player thou) I often take an Infernal as general, to have another wizard and make my 2x6  flayers BL and then depending on left over points I take either one big blot of Ghouls or just min units to scuttle around as speedbumps and flank protection.

 

Ghouls are nice in a ghoul patrol list, coming from everywhere, dropping on objectives or in a morghaunt court 3x40 ghouls just flooding the board...

Back in the days I had a regeneration list with 2x40 ghouls and a lot of courtiers, just flooding the board and with 4d6 regeneration. After taking damage the ghouls just popped back up and spread all over the board.

But those times are gone to the power creep since a bunch of units can dish out over 20 damage a round and then battleshock takes the rest. the morghaunt court can resummon those on a 4+, but then I would not go for a 40 strong but for 2x20, since the extra attack is triggered earlier and the 50/50 on resummoning can trigger more often. the reemerging of a shooting meta also leaves our buffing heroes in troubles, especially stupid daffodil munchers with their indirect firing.

 

 

daffodil munchers.......sylvaneth?

 

 

[Honk]

2 hours ago, Lord marcus said:

daffodil munchers.......sylvaneth?

 

 

Pointy ears constipate äelves, but kurnoth hunters or sky stumpies, tzangors disksshooters... (my chaosdwarven Rockets)

all shooting spells trouble, indirect even more so.

[Honk]

It was a feast, sadly not mine...

 

for a quick masked open windows game 1,5k vs Khornish something.

 I fielded Feast Day Deadwatch (6/6/3) with an extra infernal and an Archregent (Gk-proxy 😓), brought the chalice, but never casted it.

He brought Khorne stuff and the extra SoD named character as general.

After rolling for scenarios, we got diagonally two objective first, he complained (boring, bad for his list), then we got 5 objectives which lets his whole army reroll 1s to wound when within 12“ 🤔 where‘s my salt...

he went first, walked up a bit, I summoned a varghulf, rolled a 10 for deranged transformation, shifted my whole army to the right and charged in. Destroyed the chaff, binded the crushers (one 😇) in combat, got brutalized by his general on reptile (he did like 20 wounds in one go, had a 3+ unrendable  2+ with prayer, rerolling 1s with CA, what a beast).... hoping for the double...

Nope

one squad of flayer got wiped by his general(after mustering up 😳), crushers reposition, I‘m lacking in VPs as planned.

his totem bloodsecrator whatever is brutal, +1 attack to everybody and rerolling spells is a bummer...

but buckle up and

FOR THE LADY

refill second flayer squad and go for the kill... into his general 3+ rr1s 6+ invuln...5flayer and frenzy barely do the trick, 9dmg on the spot. But his bloodcrusher are looming doom with their countercharge, hoping, praying for the double turn...

Noooope... they charge in, 13MWs and Hack everything to pieces after that, my regent does the only sensible thing and charges into Skylla to finish up the wipe.

still brooding how I should have played, maybe the left flank was weaker?! Not charging in the second unit to bind his general who hit like a truck and also binding the crushers who countercharge like crazy 🧐😖🧐 maybe fielding 9/3/3 (no a fan)

i guess high risk high reward means high chance of getting tabled turn 3...

with a double in either round, his flank would have crumbled with all the regeneration and feeding frenzy and he would be throwing around saltiness about imba fec with crazy rules attacking three times a round with more attacks then possible 

🤣👍

next time I‘ll get the double and will devour your stupid little army whole, shred you to little bloody ribbons and fill the abbatoirs to the rim with tasty morsels

Edited December 12, 2020 by Honk

[Evil Bob]

13 hours ago, Honk said:

snip

for a quick masked open windows game 1,5k vs Khornish something.

 I fielded Feast Day Deadwatch (6/6/3) with an extra infernal and an Archregent (Gk-proxy 😓), brought the chalice, but never casted it.

Nice choice.  That is my absolute favorite Delusion/Battalion combo.  Although I generally save it for multiplayer team battles.

You didn’t do anything wrong.  An all muscle elite FEC force’s the only hope would be to hit the weakest area with lowest return charges.  Preferably with the Infernals & summoned Varghulf in position to return slain Flayers.  With so few objective holders I might have gone “all in” with one Flayer unit and pray to Nagash, it’s a hard call.

When running solo FEC there’s always at least one unit of ghouls.  That’s our highest return of points to wounds/dice.  Oddly enough I rarely use Deadwatch in 2k games.  There are other better options, it feels like a downgrade.

In multiplayer battles where Deadwatch can do their elite thing I’ll pounce on soft opportune targets that need elimination or snag objectives.  At times after prying Feast Day from my cold undead fingers Blisterskin with Cogs is all “death from above” or “go, go, speed racer.”

 

One tip when fighting Khorne.  Bloodtithe is nasty.  It’s generally best to have durable units to deny/reduce payout.  During a very competitive store league match an opponent had to stop a crucial spell cast using points he got from his lost units (a bunch were MSU).  Post battle report he shared his frustration at having such a limited pool to spend.  I would have possibly won if he blobbed up more or misspent his tithe points.

[Fulcanelli]

Last weekend a noble regiment of 20 ghoul, properly buffed and inspired by their saint king, charge and kill in one shot a bloodthirster.
Pure delight.

[Michealmas]

On 12/12/2020 at 10:17 AM, Honk said:

It was a feast, sadly not mine...

 

for a quick masked open windows game 1,5k vs Khornish something.

 I fielded Feast Day Deadwatch (6/6/3) with an extra infernal and an Archregent (Gk-proxy 😓), brought the chalice, but never casted it.

He brought Khorne stuff and the extra SoD named character as general.

After rolling for scenarios, we got diagonally two objective first, he complained (boring, bad for his list), then we got 5 objectives which lets his whole army reroll 1s to wound when within 12“ 🤔 where‘s my salt...

he went first, walked up a bit, I summoned a varghulf, rolled a 10 for deranged transformation, shifted my whole army to the right and charged in. Destroyed the chaff, binded the crushers (one 😇) in combat, got brutalized by his general on reptile (he did like 20 wounds in one go, had a 3+ unrendable  2+ with prayer, rerolling 1s with CA, what a beast).... hoping for the double...

Nope

one squad of flayer got wiped by his general(after mustering up 😳), crushers reposition, I‘m lacking in VPs as planned.

his totem bloodsecrator whatever is brutal, +1 attack to everybody and rerolling spells is a bummer...

but buckle up and

FOR THE LADY

refill second flayer squad and go for the kill... into his general 3+ rr1s 6+ invuln...5flayer and frenzy barely do the trick, 9dmg on the spot. But his bloodcrusher are looming doom with their countercharge, hoping, praying for the double turn...

Noooope... they charge in, 13MWs and Hack everything to pieces after that, my regent does the only sensible thing and charges into Skylla to finish up the wipe.

still brooding how I should have played, maybe the left flank was weaker?! Not charging in the second unit to bind his general who hit like a truck and also binding the crushers who countercharge like crazy 🧐😖🧐 maybe fielding 9/3/3 (no a fan)

i guess high risk high reward means high chance of getting tabled turn 3...

with a double in either round, his flank would have crumbled with all the regeneration and feeding frenzy and he would be throwing around saltiness about imba fec with crazy rules attacking three times a round with more attacks then possible 

🤣👍

next time I‘ll get the double and will devour your stupid little army whole, shred you to little bloody ribbons and fill the abbatoirs to the rim with tasty morsels

Khorne Mortals seems to be one of our worst matchups. They are generally stronger and killer than us with high rend, double priest lists spamming Blood Boil wrecks our support heroes, they get a bunch of anti-magic shenanigans which further punish our force multipliers (hexgorger skulls etc.), they have way more bodies on the board (unless you're ghoul heavy) for objective control and they can summon more, they are highly resistant to alpha strikes due to blood tithe summoning and fight on death abilities, almost as mobile and they do pretty well against bravery in most cases. Things like Reality splitting axe, Crimson Plate, Bronzed Flesh Thronebreakers Torque etc. means they can tarpit and potentially delete a terrorgeist with a 140pt model and the Bloodsecrator can be wandering about with a 2+ re-rollable save. Not to mention Skarbrand or any other bloodthirster will kill anything we have if it gets the drop on us and hits us first.

 

I play against them in my league and they are by far my hardest match up. Only advise I can give is to try to take out their Slaughterpriests and the Bloodsecrator early. If you can do that you stand a chance but it's an uphill battle even then.

[Honk]

7 hours ago, Michealmas said:

Khorne Mortals seems to be one of our worst matchups.

High risk high reward list... if I would have had a double turn, I would have crushed him.

We are highly dependent on our support heroes and pretty squishy with a 5+.

I thought about a suicide charge into his heroes, but they were pretty well hidden.

Next time, my vengeance will be sweet and tasty

[Fulcanelli]

As I implicitly said above, last weekend I fought Khorne in a vanguard match and I won without too much difficulty.
Sure a bit of luck,  slaining immediately his bloodthirster with my ghoul.

I found crucial starting first and  gaining objective with our excellent movement (even better with Blisterskin), controlling the board in the mid game with numbers.

[mrteige]

Had 3 games with my FEC yesterday and took pictures to post a batrep here.

I was playing my Deadwatch Blisterskin list against a Katakros/Nagash MP list

FEC (Blisterskin):
1 Abhorrant Archregent - Eye of Hysh, - Hellish Orator, - Spectral Host

1 Abhorrant Ghoul King on Terrorgheist- Grim garland, - Monstrous Vigour, - Grusom Bite

1 Crypt Infernal Courtier

1 Crypt Infernal Courtier

6 Crypt Flayers

6 Crypt Flayers

3 Crypt Flayers

10 Dire Wolves

Deadwatch Battalion

OBR (Mortis Praetorians):

1 Katakros

1 Nagash

20 Mortek Guards

5 Deathriders

5 Deathriders

Battleplan: Shifting Objectives

 

Turn 1: 7-5 OBR

OBR:

Nagash put 5+ exploding hits and 5+ MW shrug on the mortek guards and cast some other buffs

All units pushed forward and claimed the objectives

FEC:

I didnt get a spell of the entire game due to nagash so thats that 😄 oh and i did 1 damage combined with all my screams for the entire game.

I pushed most of my army to the right flank and a block of 6 flayers to the left. I also summoned a unit of 3 flayers and 20 ghouls onto the left flank. Lastly i screened with my dogs in the middle.

I charged the deathriders on both sides but only killed 2 from the lefthand unit and 3 from the right hand unit (Not the plan)

My thinking was that if i could get rid of his death riders in the 1st/2nd turn i could then spend my time taking out the mortek guards and in that way deny him the points.

OBR wins priority and takes turn 2 (This hurt me)

(Sorry but i forgot to take a picture after turn 2)

Turn 2: 12-9 OBR

OBR:

Nagash and Katakros revived 1 deathrider each on both sides... hate it...

Nagash buffed his mortek guards again and the unit of deathriders on my lefthad side. He also used 5 arcane bolts to remove 1 of my infernal courtiers.

Nagash swung over to the left flank, the mortek guards pushed forward towards the dogs and katakros to my lefthand side.

Nagash charged the flayers and the mortek guards charged the dogs. Both charged units died without me doing much damage in return

FEC:

The Courtier revived 3 Flayers on the righthand side bringing them back up to 5 strong.

I moved my 2 summoned units onto the objective and moved my KGoTG up

GKoTG charged into the deathriders on the right and killed them.

FEC gets the double turn

Turn 3: 15-15

FEC:

I swing my 6 Flayers onto the middle objective and the GKoTG down where he sits on the picture.

I charge the unit of Mortek Guards with both units and i kill 19 out of 20 mortek guards. This was unfortunately the game... ...

OBR:

1 Mortek guard turns into 7 Mortek guards 😑

Nagash arcane bolts the summoned unit of flayers to death and buffs the unit of deathriders

Nagash pushes towards the center and retreats the Mortek Guards

Nagash Charges the 6 Flayers and cuts through them like butter. The 20 ghouls then kills 2 deathriders to everyones surprise and combined with battleshock only 3 ghouls remain.

FEC wins priority and takes the turn

Turn 4: 20-19 FEC

FEC:

I retreat my ghouls away from the Deathriders

and with a run roll of a 6 i claim the center objective with my abhorrant and GKoTG.

GKoTG charges the mortek guards and kills them and with the extra pile in (trying to make the heroic one shot on Nagash) wiffs completely and gets killed in return like a champ 😂

OBR:

Deathriders take out the 3 remaining ghouls and Nagash takes out my general.

OBR won Priority and took the turn

 

Turn 5: 23-22 OBR

The primary objective landed by the deathriders so i couldnt get to it and we called the game there

I could get my 2 points on the objective i was standing on but he would be getting 4 and therefor winning the game.

 

Thoughts:

This was one of the most fun games I have had i a while.

It was super close and swung back and forth like a mother......

I did a couple of placement errors but overall I like the gameplan i had. I definitely underestimated my damage output against the deathriders and that did cost me ALOT but the gamechanger was the fact that i couldnt kill the 20 mortek guards in 1 go. If I had done that my GKoTG would have been freed up to hunt the deathriders instead and that would have sealed the deal for me. but ohh well. a super fun game against a really good opponent.

 

Edited December 30, 2020 by mrteige

[Lord Hightower]

Hey guys,

Quick question about the Royal Family Battalion:

Is it possible to fit 1 Archregent and 2 Ghoulkings on TG in this Battalion? I am quite unsure because if you look at the keywords it would be possible, but it is all about unit-names in this case isnt it? Would be too strong i guess ^^

Thanks for the help!

[Sutek]

No you can't.  You can only have 1 Archregent or 1 Ghoulking on a TG.  It refers to the Warscroll name, not the keywords

[Liquidsteel]

It depends, and the real answer is check with your opponent and/or the event organiser.

Core rules state that subheadings on warscrolls are not counted for battalions, which is what the mounts are for our ghoul kings.

So, technically the battalion is legal on this basis, though you can tell it wasn't intended.

 

[Lord Hightower]

9 hours ago, Liquidsteel said:

It depends, and the real answer is check with your opponent and/or the event organiser.

Core rules state that subheadings on warscrolls are not counted for battalions, which is what the mounts are for our ghoul kings.

So, technically the battalion is legal on this basis, though you can tell it wasn't intended.

 

Thank you for the answer, this clarifies it for me - i also checked the Core Rules now and agree with you that it is clearly written in them, that you can ignore subheadings - so it is technically legal - but still weir rule-writing ^^

I checked other armies as well, skaven for example have the same issue with the plaguepriest in one of their battalions.

Why I am asking is because I am working on a tournament-list for 1500 points and was looking for a batallion to reduce drops and the only thing possible in my combination would be royal family. Heres the draft for my list:

Allegiance: Flesh Eater Courts
- Grand Court: Court of Delusion - The Feast Day
Mortal Realm: Ghur

Leaders
Abhorrant Archregent (240)
- Lore of Madness: Deranged Transformation
Abhorrant Ghoul King on Royal Terrorgheist (420)
- General
- Command Trait: Frenzied Flesh-eater
- Artefact: Predator's Torc
- Lore of Madness: Monstrous Vigour
Abhorrant Ghoul King on Royal Terrorgheist (420)
- Artefact: The Dermal Robe
- Lore of Madness: Spectral Host
- Mount Trait: Gruesome Bite

Battleline
10 x Crypt Ghouls (100)
10 x Crypt Ghouls (100)
10 x Crypt Ghouls (100)

Battalions
Royal Family (120)

Total: 1500 / 1500
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 65
---‐--------------

 

Feedback is welcome ^^

I would love to squeeze a chalice in as well, but you can't have everything at 1500 points 😉

[Liquidsteel]

That's  a strong list for sure! I ran it at 2k points by adding in a Ghoul King on Royal Zombie Dragon.

My questions would be why Feast Day over Gristlegore?  Your kings will do the heavy lifting, and Gristlegore makes them more reliable as well as providing the fight on death command trait. 

I would consider throwing the dermal robe on to the archregent and giving him Spectral Host as well, as you really need his extra attacks to go off and deranged transformation doesn't offer much here as only the ghouls can be targeted. 

Finally it's probably an oversight but both kings can take the gruesome bite mount trait. 

[Lord Hightower]

Thanks for the Feedback!

 

Yeah I was thinking about Gristlegore as well but wanted to try out feast day first - second time attacking for free once per round is just too good (and in my opinion better than fighting only once when dying) and with my shortage on CPs every free doubleattack is needed ^^. Additionaly you are not bound to the abilities/artefacts of gristlegore - but yeah, striking first and that stuff sounds great too - maybe i will test the list with gristlegore next time.

Regarding the arch regent and dermal robe: i thougt about that as well, the artefact would be better on him, because he can cast two times - but in my experience with all this fast enemy armies one really needs the run+charge spell to get these urgently needed charges ^^ and the archregent is basically never in range to target the big guys with only 12 "... but if I put the two big guys next to each other and one of them manages to cast the spell on 9 (+1) BOTH will be buffed.

Its true that his spell can in theory only target the ghouls, but dont forget I am able to summon flayers as well - and they love deranged transformation 😉 but I will test him with spectral host as well - maybe you are right and it is often more helpful than the transformation, even thougt it has shorter range.

 

And yep, i just forgot to click on it ^^ i will add it immediatly - gruesome bite is too good to be forgotten 😉

 

[LBromley83]

Hi all,

Got a game this weekend against an STD Archaon list, and been messing with my current list to try Big Drogg. Let us know what you think?

 

[protoss]

Not sure if this is the right place for a noob question but I will try my luck.

I just started getting into aos collecting flesh eater courts and have a question regarding Command Abilities.

It's about whether, if I choose one of the four "Grand Courts", I keep the standard "Feeding Frenzy" ability and still get the additional one of the "Grand Court", or whether I can then only use the "Grand Court" ability, or choose the ability.

With the Command Trait and the Artefact Power it says explicitly that the version of the Grand Court has to be used.

Also the question if a General or Hero can have more than one Command Ability at the same time.

Would be nice if you can help me.

 

[nuttyknatty]

Hey fellow Archregents.

What’s all this internet noise surrounding a kamikaze buffed up Varghulf? Any know what the build is?

[BrocknerTheBear]

@The Nameless One see @LBromley83 's list above. 

It's the hollowmourne / grave robber / billious decanter / royal mordant (for the hero phase move) vargulf with the D3 additional attacks and bonus move spells on it fighting twice for a command point. Currently known as the FECxorset missile. 

[LBromley83]

2 hours ago, BrocknerTheBear said:

@The Nameless One see @LBromley83 's list above. 

It's the hollowmourne / grave robber / billious decanter / royal mordant (for the hero phase move) vargulf with the D3 additional attacks and bonus move spells on it fighting twice for a command point. Currently known as the FECxorset missile. 

Yeah the Hollowmourne Smash bat is a really fun list, unfortunately the derranged transformation spell does not on him as he has 8 wounds so no bonus move spell, but obviously benefits massively from the battalion, plus the bonus plus 1 to run an charges (which I always forget), so has a potential 34" move before charges. He is great.

[BrocknerTheBear]

There you go, I knew there was some extra move in there somwhere. It pays to try and get a ghoul king in too if possible for the extra attack spell on top but really he should do enough without it looking at what it makes him into.

The inclusion of the mega gargant in @LBromley83's list above is a good choice as it would give reliable objective holding strength without having to summon on 20 ghouls (allowing to summon a replacement vargulf) and also some shooting and high damage output with rend (which the army lacks)

[LBromley83]

7 minutes ago, BrocknerTheBear said:

There you go, I knew there was some extra move in there somwhere. It pays to try and get a ghoul king in too if possible for the extra attack spell on top but really he should do enough without it looking at what it makes him into.

The inclusion of the mega gargant in @LBromley83's list above is a good choice as it would give reliable objective holding strength without having to summon on 20 ghouls (allowing to summon a replacement vargulf) and also some shooting and high damage output with rend (which the army lacks)

I initially thought this, but the Gargant counts as 20 models thing is a myth. It's a Sons of Behemat Alliegence ability. So my Gargant stupidly only counts as 1 model (I would love for you to prove me wrong). Loosing the CP aswell is rough, those Merc rules are rough on FEC.

He is however a wonderful distraction. And gets targeted over the 9 flayers and smash bat. He is also pretty consistent with damage, maybe better then a ZD. And doesnt get any worse till it's taken 12 damage which normally would of finished off one of our monsters.

Adding the ghoul king, is a good idea, but would mean dropping the 9 flayers to a 6, and the 9 fits round an Ironclad nicely.

[BrocknerTheBear]

Of course, the mightier makes rightier is the army trait not a warscroll ability.  Really need to re read that book (well the 10 ish pages that are rules anyway - the law however is terrific) That does change things up an aweful lot then. 

Edited January 9, 2021 by BrocknerTheBear

[LBromley83]

Yeah a situation came up in one of my earlier games when playing against sons where my gatebreaker is worth 1 and my opponents exact same model is 20. Should be a warscroll rule in my opinion.

I'm not dropping him though. He has been super fun and honestly think people dont mind loosing to him. Its feels better then gapping Maw on a TG.