AoS 2 - Beastclaw Raiders Discussion

[Pitloze]

9 hours ago, heywoah_twitch said:

If your goal is pure BCR beating a proper LoN list against an opponent who isn't going to make game-throwing mistakes multiple times a game - we straight up can not. I'm not trying to be doom and gloom and I'm not trying to minimize how skill can affect the game, but that's the reality atm. We are weak to hordes, -1 to hit ruins our already unreliable damage and they have lots of other debuffs as well, and they can return massive regiments to play if they die. Their army has better offense and defense, very strong allegiance abilities, lots of bodies and plays better at objectives and all battleplans. It's a hard counter, as they say in magic.

A lesser known thing about thundertusks is that they are quite bad at sniping death heroes if you do the math. A Necromancer will take 3.36 damage from a full strength frost-wreathed ice plus blood vulture, as will Nagash. In other words, on average, you need to spend 720 points to have basically a coin-flip's chance of killing a 110pt hero for your turn. Also, 1-in-3 of those situations will result in a miss from one or both snowballs.

If I was to make a list with 2x tusks but no yetis I would run this:

  Hide contents

• Destruction Allegiance
• Huskard on Thundertusk, vulture, general, ravager
• Huskard on Thundertusk, vulture
• Butcher
• Butcher
• 12 Ogors, paired weps
• 12 Ogors, paired weps
• 3 Ogors, Iron Fists
• 1920pts

 

My goal at the moment is just hobby and game days. No specific tourney list or counter list. Minus to hit do suck. The hope I have right now is that Destruction will get a resurgence just like Death did last year. Just waiting that out while I paint my stuff. And when the new destruction stuff comes I pray that we get plastic Yeti's. But FEC didn't get their plastic Varlgulf so I'm kinda scared that we won't either.

I know Thundertusks won't do much against Death. But neither do Stonehorns I feel. The Thundertusks at least has SOME pressure. And for your list. I was kinda scared it was going to be Gutbuster heavy. But this actually puts me over the edge and I will start collecting Gutbuster this year. The only thing I'm confused about are the 3 Ogor's with Iron fists? I thought they sucked because rend negates them?

I do have 3 Ogors left from my Butcher conversion so if they are worth building that would be a cool way to use them up.

15 hours ago, Brakkus said:

Also, don't forget that if you're taking BCR allegience, you can only have 1 allied unit for every 4 BCR unit. So to take 2 butchers you need 8 BCR units. This can be difficult for our faction 

And it's 25% of your TOTAL army. If you check warscroll builder it counts that list I posted as 8/2. Meaning it falls under the 25% of your army being allies rule and is legal. That's also what I have 2x2 Mournfang.

Edited February 4, 2019 by Pitloze

[heywoah_twitch]

1 hour ago, Pitloze said:

My goal at the moment is just hobby and game days. No specific tourney list or counter list. Minus to hit do suck. The hope I have right now is that Destruction will get a resurgence just like Death did last year. Just waiting that out while I paint my stuff. And when the new destruction stuff comes I pray that we get plastic Yeti's. But FEC didn't get their plastic Varlgulf so I'm kinda scared that we won't either.

I know Thundertusks won't do much against Death. But neither do Stonehorns I feel. The Thundertusks at least has SOME pressure. And for your list. I was kinda scared it was going to be Gutbuster heavy. But this actually puts me over the edge and I will start collecting Gutbuster this year. The only thing I'm confused about are the 3 Ogor's with Iron fists? I thought they sucked because rend negates them?

I do have 3 Ogors left from my Butcher conversion so if they are worth building that would be a cool way to use them up.

Yeah np, I feel like a lot of BCR players are enjoying the hobby aspect and just waiting on a 2nd ed book to become viable again. As for the little 3-man iron fist unit, I put that one in terrain near an objective ideally so they can still proc mws against rend -1 (due to +1 cover armor). If there's no spot like that no big loss it's just an msu.

[Brakkus]

1 hour ago, Pitloze said:

And it's 25% of your TOTAL army. If you check warscroll builder it counts that list I posted as 8/2. Meaning it falls under the 25% of your army being allies rule and is legal. That's also what I have 2x2 Mournfang.

It's only 20% of your total army. In a 2000 point matched play list you can have up to 400 points of allies. 400/2000 is 20%. I'm not sure the exact page and can't check until I get home tonight, but I do believe the ally rules says something about 1 in every 4 can be an allied unit. However, I could be wrong and it might be 1 in every 3.

As you have 6 BCR units, if it's 1 in 3 you're ok. If it happens to be 1 in 4, you would need 2 more BCR units to take the 2nd butcher. I use warscroll builder a lot to make lists and check on things, but tools like that aren't always accurate which is why I tend to double check rule books, FAQ's, etc. Also, sometimes folks on here point out things we might overlook. 

Anyways, just trying to be helpful and don't want you to buy and build a list and run into a little problem like it being legal and all

 

Annndddd I just realized that I was wrong on my point, as I had a brain ******. The 1 in 4 would be ok with your current set up. As if you have 3 BCR units, then the next unit COULD be an ally. So that would be your 1st butcher. Then you take your next 3 BCR units then you take your 2nd butcher. My apologies, as that subtle point wasn't sticking in my head until JUST now. 

[DestructionFranz]

On 1/31/2019 at 2:57 PM, GutZilla said:

Hey BCR players, I’m looking at building up a BCR army and wanted your thoughts on this 2k list. 

1x Huskard on Thundertusk w/ blood vulture (Everwinter master, pelt of charngar)

1x Stonehorn Beastriders w/ Chaintrap 

4x Mournfang w/ Gargant hackers 

4x Mournfang w/ Gargant hackers 

6x Yhetees

6x Yhetees

6x Sabre tusks

4x Sabre tusks

How do you think it will play? I didn’t want to focus just on behemoths, since I wanted to be able to actually compete over objectives. 

Additionally, this will be my second warhammer army. My first is a 2k Gutbuster army that I love, but they can be a bit slow and unwieldly at times. Do you guys think they are too similar? I know the models are very similar, but it looks like they play quite differently. 

My suggestion is, put out some frost sabres + the Stonehorn Beastriders and add 1 Frostlord on Stonehorn to have one more hero (the Strongest of your army and one of the Strongest of entire game) to contest objectives.

[Luzgurbel]

Personally I would never play a Frostlord on Thundertusk, 'cause it's completely antisynergyc. You always want the huge power of the Forstlord smashing foes in combat meanwhile you don't want the Thundertusk being wounded so it can spread easy MWs around.

 

I prefer, always, Frost on stone and the Huskard on Thunder, besides, it has a great ability the Huskard.

[heywoah_twitch]

4 hours ago, Luzgurbel said:

Personally I would never play a Frostlord on Thundertusk, 'cause it's completely antisynergyc. You always want the huge power of the Forstlord smashing foes in combat meanwhile you don't want the Thundertusk being wounded so it can spread easy MWs around.

I prefer, always, Frost on stone and the Huskard on Thunder, besides, it has a great ability the Huskard.

Sometimes, if you only have room for one, I'll spring for the frostlord version. The 3+ save and slower charting is often better than a 50% chance at a heal. Furthermore, FWI+Charge in and deal 10 damage to finish them off and capture the point is suddenly a viable option - one the huskard version doesn't have whatsoever. 

What I will say though, in keeping with Luz's language, is that I would never run a Huskard on Stonehorn who wasn't required for a battalion. Nothing could be worth more than those 60 extra points to make him a frostlord - and he should always have the artefact.

Also, @GutZilla, Frost Sabres should be run in min units as time wasting speed bumps, as they really don't have much of a job in any other context, being strictly worse than Yetis if you're spending 120 points anyhow and not playing a skal.

Edited February 10, 2019 by heywoah_twitch

[Kyriakin]

21 hours ago, Luzgurbel said:

Personally I would never play a Frostlord on Thundertusk, 'cause it's completely antisynergyc. You always want the huge power of the Forstlord smashing foes in combat meanwhile you don't want the Thundertusk being wounded so it can spread easy MWs around.

I prefer, always, Frost on stone and the Huskard on Thunder, besides, it has a great ability the Huskard.

What if you are going all-in with Yhetees, and need the Thundertusk to make them battleline? The Frostlord option is more durable - especially with the Etherial Amulet - and that should prevent him from charting so quickly.

Corner case, but possible.

Edited February 10, 2019 by Kyriakin

[Johnmasters1234]

31 minutes ago, Kyriakin said:

What if you are going all-in with Yhetees, and need the Thundertusk to make them battleline? The Frostlord option is more durable - especially with the Etherial Amulet - and that should prevent him from charting so quickly.

Corner case, but possible.

You can have the huskard on thundertusk as your general and still take yhetees as battleline can't you? Meaning you still take a frostlord on stonehorn. Best of both worlds. Frostlord always on stonehorn. 

[That Guy]

Took out my Beastclaw Raiders from the shelf today and want to try them next Tuesday. Hesitating between Pendulum and Balewind Vortex. Also hesitating to run MSU Mournfang Pack. Let me know what YOU think about this list and the endless spell choices. 

Allegiance: Beastclaw Raiders
Realm: Shyish

Leaders
Huskard on Thundertusk (360)
- General
- Trait: Everwinter's Master
Frostlord on Stonehorn (420)
- Artefact: Ethereal Amulet
Butcher (140)
- Cauldron

Battlelines
4 x Mournfang Pack (320)
4 x Mournfang Pack (320)
Thundertusk Beastriders (340)

Endless Spells
Chronomantic Cogs (60)
Aethervoid Pendulum (40)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Allies: 140 / 400
Wounds: 92

[Baron Wastelands]

5 hours ago, That Guy said:

Took out my Beastclaw Raiders from the shelf today and want to try them next Tuesday. Hesitating between Pendulum and Balewind Vortex. Also hesitating to run MSU Mournfang Pack. Let me know what YOU think about this list and the endless spell choices. 

Allegiance: Beastclaw Raiders
Realm: Shyish

Leaders
Huskard on Thundertusk (360)
- General
- Trait: Everwinter's Master
Frostlord on Stonehorn (420)
- Artefact: Ethereal Amulet
Butcher (140)
- Cauldron

Battlelines
4 x Mournfang Pack (320)
4 x Mournfang Pack (320)
Thundertusk Beastriders (340)

Endless Spells
Chronomantic Cogs (60)
Aethervoid Pendulum (40)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Allies: 140 / 400
Wounds: 92

Like this list. Mournfang In 4s, definitely. I’m not convinced by the pendulum, and while the vortex is a useful platform to cast the maw from, it ties your butcher down, which is slightly odd in such a mobile army. Personally, I think you’d get more mileage out of 6 yhetees than the butcher and spells, but a lot of people seem to be allying in a butcher for BCR currently.

Edited February 11, 2019 by Baron Wastelands

[That Guy]

5 hours ago, Baron Wastelands said:

Like this list. Mournfang In 4s, definitely. I’m not convinced by the pendulum, and while the vortex is a useful platform to cast the maw from, it ties your butcher down, which is slightly odd in such a mobile army. Personally, I think you’d get more mileage out of 6 yhetees than the butcher and spells, but a lot of people seem to be allying in a butcher for BCR currently.

Hmmmm, i don’t own any Yhetees so far, but it does sound interesting. The reason for the butcher is fairly simple. First of all it’s a fairly durable wizard, able to heal by casting and there’s a 1/6th chance he rolls healing on the cauldron, which heals him and ogors around him. On top of that, he has a 1/3th chance to roll for +1 to hit for an ogor unit within 14”. This in particular is huge on gargant hacker mournfang. Also having acces to realm lore, means for example by playing in Aqshy you got acces to stoked rage and inferno blades. As for the pendulum. If at some point you change the chronomantic cogs to magic enhancing, you can cast an additional spell. Stacking the maw with the pendulum can give you a huge amount of mortals in a focused area, where you might have trouble to get to with your forces, because of for example the opponent blocking it off by chaff. The d6 mortals by moving over targets or ending the move within 1” is pretty huge. I do wonder if you would go for the butcher aproach, what spells would you include in 100p? Also if i would include 6 yhetees, should i run them MSU?

Edited February 11, 2019 by That Guy

[Baron Wastelands]

10 hours ago, That Guy said:

Hmmmm, i don’t own any Yhetees so far, but it does sound interesting. The reason for the butcher is fairly simple. First of all it’s a fairly durable wizard, able to heal by casting and there’s a 1/6th chance he rolls healing on the cauldron, which heals him and ogors around him. On top of that, he has a 1/3th chance to roll for +1 to hit for an ogor unit within 14”. This in particular is huge on gargant hacker mournfang. Also having acces to realm lore, means for example by playing in Aqshy you got acces to stoked rage and inferno blades. As for the pendulum. If at some point you change the chronomantic cogs to magic enhancing, you can cast an additional spell. Stacking the maw with the pendulum can give you a huge amount of mortals in a focused area, where you might have trouble to get to with your forces, because of for example the opponent blocking it off by chaff. The d6 mortals by moving over targets or ending the move within 1” is pretty huge. I do wonder if you would go for the butcher aproach, what spells would you include in 100p? Also if i would include 6 yhetees, should i run them MSU?

I get the reasons for wanting to take a butcher, and use him a lot with Gutbusters; it’s just that his buffs are a little too random to reliably do what you need them to do when you need them to do it; and against any magic competent army his casting ability will be shut down. Maw can be great, but also can be disappointing if it doesn’t go off/ doesn’t spread. He is also slow moving in a fast moving army (when allied into BCR). All that said, he can be great - and as long as you are careful about placement so that the rest of your army doesn’t charge away out of range, I think vortex and cogs are a solid choice. 

Yhetees have 2 uses (outside a Torrbad, where they can also tarpit anything). Firstly, they have pile in shenanigans, which when coupled with decent resilience, can allow you to tie up key units and/or get more of your first attacks home than you would otherwise be entitled to. For this, a unit of 6 is more durable, and will do more consistent damage when you’re ready to pile in. Second, they have some synergy with your ‘tusk, make a decent screen for it, and can run and charge from it when necessary. I think probably I’d run as one unit of 6, unless you are likely to need a spread for objectives, although to be honest you’re in an uphill battle anyway if there’s lots of objectives.

Crucially though, for my money, yhetees gets you more bodies and more wounds compared to the butcher with spells.

Edited February 11, 2019 by Baron Wastelands

[That Guy]

2 hours ago, Baron Wastelands said:

Crucially though, for my money, yhetees gets you more bodies and more wounds compared to the butcher with spells.

Alright, thank you. You convinced me to buy at least 6 yhetees. I've considered them before, and they are rather nice, they are also battleline under a thundertusk general. I haven't tried any of the battalions so far, because the army is already this expensive to field.

Edited February 12, 2019 by That Guy

[Johnmasters1234]

3 hours ago, That Guy said:

Alright, thank you. You convinced me to buy at least 6 yhetees. I've considered them before, and they are rather nice, they are also battleline under a thundertusk general. I haven't tried any of the battalions so far, because the army is already this expensive to field.

I'm selling 6 yhetees on sprue.....

[That Guy]

19 minutes ago, Johnmasters1234 said:

I'm selling 6 yhetees on sprue.....

Why not build them, they seem pretty solid?

[Johnmasters1234]

2 hours ago, That Guy said:

Why not build them, they seem pretty solid?

Because I've already got 15..

[Pitloze]

Just the CHANCE of getting +1 to hit is priceless for a BCR army. I run two butchers and getting the +1 to hit twice on a unit of Mournfang actually makes them very scary.

And even if that all doesn't work you can always get mystic shield out of them. Which is very valuable for me. I basically have three chances at getting rerolling save rolls of 1 for my Frostlord.

[That Guy]

On 7/19/2018 at 3:11 AM, Davros said:

Allegiance: Beastclaw Raiders
LEADERS
Frostlord on Stonehorn (420)
Icebrow Hunter (140)
- General
Butcher (140)
- Allies
Butcher (140)
- Allies
UNITS
4 x Mournfang Pack (320)
-Gargant Hackers
2 x Mournfang Pack (160)
-Gargant Hackers
2 x Frost Sabres (40)
2 x Frost Sabres (40)
3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (140)
3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (140)
BATTALIONS
Braggoth's Beast Hammer (230)
ENDLESS SPELLS
Chronomantic Cogs (60)
Malevolent Maelstrom (20)

Yeah, I do like the idea of multiple chances on to hit buffs also, or save rolls of 1, or heals even. That’s why i like this list so much on page 5. With Braggoth, you add even +1 to hit more to your units and fight twice in a turn for once.

For a trait I would give the hunter the Everwinter’s Master. Than for artefacts I was thinking about a few combinations. I think my favorite one is going with Chamon and giving the Hunter the Wraithbow. If you run him You’ll be able to throw your spear at 18” with d6 damage and on top of that the wraithbow has an 18” range and adds 1-6 mortals to your damage depending on how you are rolling. And for the Frostlord i would take the Ethereal Amulet to ignore rend on a 3+ save. Adding a re-roll of 1 to save to that, will be absolutely terrifying. 

Alternative option I would take is:

Ghur: Gryph-Feather Charm on hunter, Tokens of Everwinter on Frostlord. Although i’m not sure if i’m a fan of tokens so much anymore, since they only buff the Frostlords attacks for 1 turn, the re-roll save rolls are nice, but still... I don’t know

Another option would be going for Aqshy and take the Thermalrider Cloak for the Frostlord, amplifying his movement even more and goving him fly, so he can’t be tarpitted. For the hunter Ignax’s Scales for the 4+ ignore mortals or Pelt of Charngar, together with the butchers, could get a bunch of healing.

Let me know what you guys think.

[Kyriakin]

Hey_woah was on Warhammer Weekly in a show devoted to BCR:

 

[Luzgurbel]

Does anyone know any alternative branch that sells Yethees or something like that? Plastic only. I despite resin and metal overall.

[herohammer]

Search yeti on the Reaper miniatures site. They have several plastic Bones series models that would work fine as yetis.

[Shankelton]

4 hours ago, Luzgurbel said:

Does anyone know any alternative branch that sells Yethees or something like that? Plastic only. I despite resin and metal overall.

Seen Crypt Horrors used as decent Yeti conversions with some greenstuff fur. Not a fan of the model personally, but they're prob the better conversion/stand in i've seen.

I've looked all over for 3rd party models as stand ins, but I've yet to find anything that I like. Turns out Yeti's are a bit of a niche sculpt, so we might be stuck with the ugly resin ones for the rest of time.

Sucks too, cause in the fluff they're actually a really cool unit.

[Reuben Parker]

Well I’ve wanted to do BCR for a while and with the suggestion of Reaper miniatures I saw posted above finally it’s happened(I abhore finecast). Probably a silly time as they leaked about a new ogre book this year (hopefully an amalgamation so I can use my old gut busters as well). 

Initial lists I will be able to run. 

FL on Stonehorn ethereal amulet 

FL on Stonehorn tokens of the everwinter (better second item?)

Hunter everwinters master 

12/2/2/2/2 cats 

Skal

9 Yeti 

20 grots 

——-

List 2

FL on Stonehorn ethereal amulet 

hunter everwinters master, wraithbow

Butcher

12/2/2/2/2 cats

Skal

8 Mournfang 

20 grots

——

Once that’s all built I want to add two more Stonehorns so I can run a 4 Stonehorn Eurlbad with 20 grots as well . I can’t help but shoe horn screens /board control bodies into every list even a 4 stonehorn one.

 

looking forward to it all arriving and diving in.

 

 

[DestructionFranz]

On 2/11/2019 at 8:12 AM, Baron Wastelands said:

Like this list. Mournfang In 4s, definitely. I’m not convinced by the pendulum, and while the vortex is a useful platform to cast the maw from, it ties your butcher down, which is slightly odd in such a mobile army. Personally, I think you’d get more mileage out of 6 yhetees than the butcher and spells, but a lot of people seem to be allying in a butcher for BCR currently.

Take out the Mournfangs. (They are too much expensive). As you choosed Huskard On Thundertusk to be your general, you can have Yethees as Battleline. (By far better than the Mournfang). 

Instead the 8 mournfang, (640 PT) use 15 Yethees (600 PT). (You can run and charge near Thundertusks and Pile in 6")

[PlasticCraic]

There's a nice tournament report just gone up by Heywoah, where he ran his BCR at Waaghpaca recently, check it out!