AoS 2 and what it means for Destruction

[PlasticCraic]

Another thing to comment on is the Chronomatic Cogs from the Tzeentch preview.  That +2 to move and charge could be awesome for a combat army like Ironjawz.  Stacking with the +1 to charge for being Ironjawz and a further +1 for the Bloodtoofs (and another +2 for the drummer if you're running Ardboyz) -plus the batallion move and potential Destruction move - will make them lightening quick.

If you can fit Gordrakk in the Bloodtoofs batallion (with the points drop) and get 3 dice to charge, you'll realistically be turn 1 charging even with foot sloggers.  You could probably send a Death Squad of Brutes straight into base to base via the Realmgate too, hitting them from the front and behind.

A melee based Alpha Strike obviously has massive limitations (screening), but it's an interesting option all the same.

Likewise with Bonesplitterz, the +2 to move and charge could be stacked with the +1 to run, hit and charge from the Brutal Beast Spirits spell and any musicians you have, plus potentially the Fungoid ability to run and charge. 

Stacked mobility buffs could be a wonderful thing ?

[broche]

Currently minimum Bloodtooth with Gordrak would be 2080 pts (Godrack, MK, 5 x 3 Pig)

I think it's realistic that with point drop it will fit at 2000! fun army

 

[Sheriff]

7 hours ago, PlasticCraic said:

If you can fit Gordrakk in the Bloodtoofs batallion

I thought he didn't need to be IN the battalion to use his command ability on that battalion? Just wanted to check cos i'm considering using him with my goblins if they get a battalion. 

[broche]

if i remember Bataillion specify any number of other Ironjawz units.

So Gordrak would benefit himself from his command.

i think it's a pretty nasty Alpha/Beta strike since you have 2 maw-krusha (so mobiliy and fly), +2 to charge across the board and everyone will get +3 attack at least (voice of gork + mighty waaagh)

If opponent misdeploy you could win outright turn one. If he screen you can just go second and move 2-3 pig units on objectives until he spread out then bomb him.

However it's worth mentionning that we might loose the bataillion from GHB2017?

[Richelieu]

It would definitely be a fun challenge to play against.  I imagine there would be lots of tiptoeing around, both armies trying to get onto objectives without exposing themselves.  The entire list is only 104 wounds, so if it fails to win a decisive battle it will be very vulnerable.  I feel like lists like Skaven Pestilens, Murderhost, Fyreslayers or Skink-heavy Seraphon would give it trouble.  Anything that can absorb a big hit and then strike back basically.  

Although if rumours are true and chargers strike first in the new edition then with both command abilities you could conceivably destroy 60 vulkites in one go.  That would be something to behold.

[broche]

yeah but you're looking at like 160 damages (including mortal and lots of rend 1-2), with an average threath range of 25'' (not counting the potential free 6'')

it's only 104 wound, but all at 3+ or 4+ so it's more than 200 effective wound. We need to see but i'm not sure a lot of army can handle that. Of course your model count is really low, but depending on point decrease you could replace some pig for some ardboys.

I'm not saying it would be autowin against everything, but it sure have a bid against everything. Not sure it's that fun tough. I a suspect lots of army will have similar combo (DoK and Idoneth already can)

[Sheriff]

4 hours ago, Richelieu said:

Anything that can absorb a big hit and then strike back basically.  

Fanatics 

I'm eyeing-up Gordrakk with grots for a deadly counter attack. 

[PlasticCraic]

@Sheriff you are correct, I just like the idea of Gordrakk being in the battalion so he gets the extra attacks himself. Your Grots are good to go!

@broche the faction focus confirmed that all battalions are coming back ?

@broche And @Richelieu I think you are right, you'd want to tease them out you create gaps (unless they deploy badly!)

[Aelfric]

8 hours ago, broche said:

Currently minimum Bloodtooth with Gordrak would be 2080 pts (Godrack, MK, 5 x 3 Pig)

I think it's realistic that with point drop it will fit at 2000! fun army

 

The whole point of the Bloodtoofs is that they are looking for Gordrakk for the big Waagh.  If He's already there, then there's no reason to rush around looking.

[PlasticCraic]

22 minutes ago, Aelfric said:

The whole point of the Bloodtoofs is that they are looking for Gordrakk for the big Waagh.  If He's already there, then there's no reason to rush around looking.

Why are they looking for him though, and what will they do when they find him? 

Sit down for a tea party and chat about the weather?

Nah, they've finally found him, and now it's krumpin' time!

[Skabnoze]

5 minutes ago, PlasticCraic said:

Why are they looking for him though, and what will they do when they find him? 

[Malakree]

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/05/24/24th-may-rules-preview-summoning-for-freegw-homepage-post-2/

 

Quote

The big change for matched play, though, is that summoning now no longer costs reinforcement points!

Does this make the Ardfist good? Take 3 Units of 30 Ardboys and lulz???

[Odr3al]

32 minutes ago, Malakree said:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/05/24/24th-may-rules-preview-summoning-for-freegw-homepage-post-2/

 

Does this make the Ardfist good? Take 3 Units of 30 Ardboys and lulz???

Yeh, I'm thinking that multiple MSU of Ardboys are going to be a requirement especially if they are dropping in points. The +3 to charge makes that 6" charge very interesting. Even just to be tying things up for a turn or two.

Very exciting.

[muggins]

If some armies can summon stuff for free now... do you think Ironjawz (and others) will get some sort of army abilities to make up for not having summons?

[Skabnoze]

I would hope that the summoning would be accounted for by point costs within the new generals handbook.  You don’t need to pay reinforcement costs, but that does not mean that they won’t layer those costs across the units and heroes for armies with access to that ability.

Although reading the article it sounds like they are handling it via allegiance ability mechanics.  So hopefully the costs will be accounted for there.  I would assume that armies that cannot summon should probably have strong allegiance abilities to account for that.  Also they should be able to adjust any allegiances that end up out of balance in future GHB editions.

[Sheriff]

43 minutes ago, muggins said:

If some armies can summon stuff for free now... do you think Ironjawz (and others) will get some sort of army abilities to make up for not having summons?

The answer for all armies will involve buying lots more models, so i reckon destruction won't summon, they'll simply be cheaper and hordier. 

[Skabnoze]

21 minutes ago, Sheriff said:

The answer for all armies will involve buying lots more models, so i reckon destruction won't summon, they'll simply be cheaper and hordier. 

It is not out of the realm of possibility for Ironjawz to gain a summon of 'Ardboyz to represent the fluff about how they just sort of appear from the hills when they hear the Warchanter drumming.  I don't expect that, but I would not be surprised to see it outside of just the warscroll battalion.

[svnvaldez]

1 hour ago, Sheriff said:

The answer for all armies will involve buying lots more models, so i reckon destruction won't summon, they'll simply be cheaper and hordier. 

I’m going to be pissed if this is horde meta 2.0.

I really liked when you set say 100 points for summoning knowing you’ll only raise a unit of skeletons. There is nothing worse than unlimited options and a player at an event having a tub of proxies or poorly painted zombies that they are going to summon. Same guy always hids the summoning pool for paint.

I much prefer replenishing units rather than creating new ones for this reason. 

EDIT: someone keyed me into the endless legion ability. Really well worded imo. “Wholely within” “summonable” “previously destroyed”... ie no tubs. 

For all the negativity and instant reactions we have... GW is doing an great job with out reach and FAQs compared to the past. Our game is in good hands right now.

[heywoah_twitch]

Contrary to what many might expect upon learning about very strong, free summoning for many armies in the game (death, all 4 chaos god armies, etc), I'm not phased at all as a beastclaw player with no available summoning.

Nor am I rattled by expanded magic as a beastclaw player with no magic or lores, nor command ability expansion as a beastclaw player with only one command ability in my army (and it sucks).

It means our dudes are going to have to be so crazy bread-and-butter powerful to compensate that I'm excited to see it. To be perfectly honest, 20-wound stonehorns wouldn't even touch a lot of the stuff other armies are getting currently, so I'm looking forward to our faction focus.

[Malakree]

2 minutes ago, heywoah_twitch said:

It means our dudes are going to have to be so crazy bread-and-butter powerful to compensate that I'm excited to see it. To be perfectly honest, 20-wound stonehorns wouldn't even touch a lot of the stuff other armies are getting currently, so I'm looking forward to our faction focus.

That or they just replace the ropes tying you to the desk with industrial strength chains to make sure you really can't escape Sigmar's Mighty Hammer....

[broche]

I think they should rename the game from Age of Sigmar to Age of Combo

[Skabnoze]

2 minutes ago, broche said:

I think they should rename the game from Age of Sigmar to Age of Combo

I'm ok with that.  I really enjoy games that have some synergistic combos built in rather than just pure statlines.  Malifaux is one of my all-time favorite games and it is very heavily synergy/combo based - although that game does almost every basic tabletop game mechanic in it's own different ways so what makes it interesting for me is much more than the synergy element.

Honestly, I really enjoy that Games Workshop is finally moving in the direction of synergistic unit interactions in their various games.  That has traditionally been an element that most GW games lacked.  Over the last couple editions of both 40k and Fantasy they have been exploring the concept of synergy that many other games have been built around and on the whole I like it.  There are certainly pitfalls and downsides to designing synergy into games, and GW seems to have run straight into quite a few of them, but they also seem willing to learn from their mistakes lately and not simply double down on their own biases.

[Ollie Grimwood]

I hope the points drops on other stuff make the Gordrakk in a Blood toofs viable the units other than Gore Gruntas, I find them very unsatisfactory, unless of of course they tweak them some what. Though I suppose once’s they have the Voice of Gork and a Mighy Waaagh on them I might be more impressed. 

[broche]

4 hours ago, Skabnoze said:

I'm ok with that.  I really enjoy games that have some synergistic combos built in rather than just pure statlines. 

Well, cool for you... I tend to find it pretty boring. What i like about AoS is close contested game that come down to positioning and objectives control on a 3D board with an infinity of possibility. If the direction is more who set his combo first, well it's like playing Magic TCG with miniature...

A feast of army setting up single-turn bomb is not that appealing to me (and probably even less to new player) 

Hopefully there's still some unknown, like what will be the rule in GHB, scenario. Can ally use command, ect.

[Skabnoze]

6 hours ago, broche said:

Well, cool for you... I tend to find it pretty boring. What i like about AoS is close contested game that come down to positioning and objectives control on a 3D board with an infinity of possibility. If the direction is more who set his combo first, well it's like playing Magic TCG with miniature...

A feast of army setting up single-turn bomb is not that appealing to me (and probably even less to new player) 

Hopefully there's still some unknown, like what will be the rule in GHB, scenario. Can ally use command, ect.

I never said I wanted insane stacking and turn 1 annihilation.  I am pretty sure that I have been overly vocal on these forums avbout wanting some of the excess curbed.  I honestly don’t like that 40k and Age of Sigmar has 1st turn charging in a number of cases.  But not wanting too much of something does not mean I don’t want any of it.

Personally, I enjoy having some units like wizards, generals, battle standards or totems that can make a unit better in isolation.  Having some synergy effects in a game does not mean you cannot still have objectives and positioning.   I don’t like games that do not have those elements since there is no point for having the battlefield at that point.

If you want just pure basic stat lines and standing dudes on objectives and little else - well cool for you.  But it is obvious that this game is not heading in that direction.  You might want to look into something else to scratch that particular itch.