Age of Sigmar: Second Edition

[SaJeel]

So far summoning looks fair, will have to see point cost of things but at its core, summoning isnt a bad idea imo, no more so than having abilties that grant extra attacks or any other buffs are bad ideas. 

[Jamopower]

11 minutes ago, Gotrek said:

 

In a vacuum nagash *might* be worth 800, but in context of *how* death plays, hes not.

And at the same time Nagash containing armies wander around in tournament top tables already

[Rollcage]

20 minutes ago, Aryann said:

I don't see it that way. Kharadrons needed point reduction despite summoning. Even now, few pages back, people say that gunhauler is not worth its cost. Sylvaneth however get a summoning and it looks promising - not overpowered, not weak. Tzeentch doesn't need a boost yet he also gets a summoning mechanic (free of points). I believe it is just (new summoning) to answear community expectations and I'm really glad GW listens to us. At this point I wouldn't assume that these changes serve only GW's increased sales. 

When they increased costs od many units in the last ghb did they do it to sell less minis or to balance the game? 

I saw people comparing the gunhauler to an allopex, Thats not a relevant comparison, the rules of idoneth vs the rules of kharadron are extremely different. 

For example, my Leviadon doesn't carry 10 troops on its back, it should cost less the the Frigate!

The kharadron were in fact performing quite well in a competitive sense, and with a drop in points across 3 confirmed units so far I believe that the turn 1 hero killing capability of Kharadron will indeed make any Slann, Vampire or Nagash sweat. 

This doesn't mean I think Age of Sigmar will be any way more balanced then it currently is. In fact it could end up worse. It just appears to me that Games Workshop decided to incorporate summoning rules into the game in an unavoidable way, the following balance changes indicate that if you cannot summon then you absolutely need more units on the table to compensate for that. 

[Gotrek]

37 minutes ago, Jamopower said:

And at the same time Nagash containing armies wander around in tournament top tables already

"Top tables": 14th at adepticon, 18th at mile high massacre, now at the brew  brawl there was a good showing: 7th (with 4th place NOT using nagash), and thats all I've been able to find. Death had a strong showing at the scgt but I can't find the lists anywhere 

[Sheriff]

Have they announced anything that speeds up the game? Everything seems to slow it down so far. 

[Jamopower]

35 minutes ago, Gotrek said:

"Top tables": 14th at adepticon, 18th at mile high massacre, now at the brew  brawl there was a good showing: 7th (with 4th place NOT using nagash), and thats all I've been able to find. Death had a strong showing at the scgt but I can't find the lists anywhere 

There was a Nagash led army on table 1 at the last round of SCGT,  but lost. And according to pictures, plenty of other Nagashes around. It's always bit of random which army gets the win, but if something is regularly represented in tournaments, it's usually good indicator that it's good. Even if it doesn't win all of the competitions as that is a combination of many things.

[Chikout]

25 minutes ago, Sheriff said:

Have they announced anything that speeds up the game? Everything seems to slow it down so far. 

Not really, but I have a feeling stuff is going to die a lot faster, especially with the mystic shield nerf, more powerful spells, command  point combos etc.

[Jamopower]

2 minutes ago, Chikout said:

Not really, but I have a feeling stuff is going to die a lot faster, especially with the mystic shield nerf, more powerful spells, command  point combos etc.

Everything takes more time, but worry not, you only have to play for 2 turns?

[Furuzzolo]

56 minutes ago, Sheriff said:

Have they announced anything that speeds up the game? Everything seems to slow it down so far. 

If you summon a purple sun in a cluster-deathstar of chaps the game is going to be pretty quick.

[Gotrek]

17 minutes ago, Jamopower said:

There was a Nagash led army on table 1 at the last round of SCGT,  but lost. And according to pictures, plenty of other Nagashes around. It's always bit of random which army gets the win, but if something is regularly represented in tournaments, it's usually good indicator that it's good. Even if it doesn't win all of the competitions as that is a combination of many things.

Well, we don't have a large sample size, but using what we do have, nagash has had a strong showing in 2 of 4 GTs in the 2 months it's been available, that's hardly "dominating" (especially when you take into account that new battletomes tend to perform higher than what becomes their normal as the playerbase learns how to deal with them. Reference: ironjaws and KO). Now, in my *opinion* I think people are currently running nagash because they want so very much for him to be worth taking so they're trying to force it. I think given an extra 6 months people would by and large drop him because he has too many drawbacks. Sadly, we won't get those 6 months. Hell, I think Nashcon (which is this weekend) is the last event for this edition

[Gaz Taylor]

59 minutes ago, Sheriff said:

Have they announced anything that speeds up the game? Everything seems to slow it down so far. 

Think it’s all down to who you play and what you use. Hordes seemed to slowed things down a bit but I think that’s one of the reasons for the Predatory spells to go on a rampage for. Personally, I can see game sizes dropping like they have done with 40k GTs

[Jamopower]

2 minutes ago, Gotrek said:

Well, we don't have a large sample size, but using what we do have, nagash has had a strong showing in 2 of 4 GTs in the 2 months it's been available, that's hardly "dominating" (especially when you take into account that new battletomes tend to perform higher than what becomes their normal as the playerbase learns how to deal with them. Reference: ironjaws and KO). Now, in my *opinion* I think people are currently running nagash because they want so very much for him to be worth taking so they're trying to force it. I think given an extra 6 months people would by and large drop him because he has too many drawbacks. Sadly, we won't get those 6 months. Hell, I think Nashcon (which is this weekend) is the last event for this edition

No one was talking about dominating, but the "evidence" gives strong indication that he is worth his 800 points. If he wasn't he wouldn't be fielded so much.

[Sheriff]

2 minutes ago, Furuzzolo said:

If you summon a purple sun in a cluster-deathstar of chaps the game is going to be pretty quick.

Gotta get close to the enemy first though! 

But yeah you guys are hopefully right about faster slaughter. The game does take too long right now. 

[Xasz]

5 hours ago, LLV said:

I’ve heard spells cast accumulates points

Should be tied to destiny dice to indirectly nerf one of the most powerful mechanics in AoS

39 minutes ago, Jamopower said:

Everything takes more time, but worry not, you only have to play for 2 turns?

This is one of my biggest fears. AoS coming down to who gets the double-turn first, extra casting, free summoning, extra shooting and always striking first in cqc.

At least you'll probably have time for 3 games in the same time you would currently play one, perfect! /s

[Gotrek]

2 hours ago, Jamopower said:

And at the same time Nagash containing armies wander around in tournament top tables already

 

6 minutes ago, Jamopower said:

No one was talking about dominating, but the "evidence" gives strong indication that he is worth his 800 points. If he wasn't he wouldn't be fielded so much.

Must be a miscommunication. I interpreted "wander around top tables" as "easily and routinely playing at the top tables" which would mean dominating. Apologies.

As a counter to him being worth his 800pts simply because he sees play, if you go back and look at lists from the 2016/2017 season you'll find that a lot of non-FEC armies used him even though he was 900pts. Just because he saw play doesn't mean he was efficient. Pretty sure you can find some gunhaulers running around in KO lists and Tom Lyons can (and will, at great length) talk about how terrible they are. It's the same thing. In a 2,000pt game you cannot get nagash to fire on all cylinders and he is pointed as if he were firing on all cylinders.

[Greasygeek]

With reinforcemnet points gone, have we heard anything about models gained from spells, abilities and artifacts (horror splitting, slain models turned into beasts of Nurgle or Chaos spawns,  Tzaangors etc.)?

[Gotrek]

4 minutes ago, Greasygeek said:

With reinforcemnet points gone, have we heard anything about models gained from spells, abilities and artifacts (horror splitting, slain models turned into beasts of Nurgle or Chaos spawns,  Tzaangors etc.)?

Nothing specific for tzeentch sadly. Nurgle will need to gain and spend contagion points though

[Ollie Grimwood]

6 minutes ago, Greasygeek said:

With reinforcemnet points gone, have we heard anything about models gained from spells, abilities and artifacts (horror splitting, slain models turned into beasts of Nurgle or Chaos spawns,  Tzaangors etc.)?

Not in the previews. It might be worth checking the Legions of Nagash book to see how these things were changed or handled in there as it was designed with AoS2 in mind

[stato]

13 minutes ago, Greasygeek said:

With reinforcemnet points gone, have we heard anything about models gained from spells, abilities and artifacts (horror splitting, slain models turned into beasts of Nurgle or Chaos spawns,  Tzaangors etc.)?

Sure spawn have been mentioned as free already?  Not sure about the rest but generally reveals seem to show you will either get them or the warscroll will be changed, so basically we dont know yet.  

[GeneralZero]

Nagash is a beat. Is he worst his cost at 800 in the actual game? Probably according to number of players putting him on the table. Competitive? We'll see...

BUT, it is a huge pleasure to be able to put such a miniature on the table and (sometimes) to win with him. He is so different than other big miniature.

[Jamopower]

Horrors splitting free and costing more would be an easy guess how they work in the new edition.

[stratigo]

15 hours ago, Christopher Rowe said:

I think it's clear that you generate 3 points PER spell you forego casting.

 

that would be...nuts. That's generating, roughly 500 to 600 points worth of models over 5 turns by itself. That's WAY too much. Combine that with starcasters and you're putting out like, a dread saurian turn 2. That is not an army I think anyone not able to generate another 500 points of their own will want to play against.

[GeneralZero]

Many people are focusing on summoning and are worrying a lot.

I'm not! From what I've read, there are so many limitations, there are so many changes in points values, there are so many way of playing magic, that sommunig won't be our main concern. It is already compensated by its cost, its limitation, and the (suposedly) powerfull magic. Summoning is not the new winner. For sure it'll be plaid, but by no way I see it the new meta super powered. Its just a tool added to our arsenal. That's it.

[GeneralZero]

2 minutes ago, stratigo said:

that would be...nuts. That's generating, roughly 500 to 600 points worth of models over 5 turns by itself. That's WAY too much. Combine that with starcasters and you're putting out like, a dread saurian turn 2. That is not an army I think anyone not able to generate another 500 points of their own will want to play against.

While you generate points, you don't do some other deadly things, buffs, debuffs, protect, etc...making a big point unit (slann) half of its value for one or 2 turns.

[stratigo]

2 minutes ago, GeneralZero said:

While you generate points, you don't do some other deadly things, buffs, debuffs, protect, etc...making a big point unit (slann) half of its value for one or 2 turns.

having another 760 points in a game is stronger than pretty much any buff really. By turn 5 you could legitimately have summoned over 800 points of units. That's quite a lot.