Richelieu Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 Just now, Drofnum said: What he is saying is that it never says what phase to use the breath weapon in. I think the Celestant says to use it in the hero phase, no? Interesting. Celestant's ability says to use it in the shooting phase. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drofnum Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 5 minutes ago, Undeadly said: And there you see the exact same problem that Death players face. Nagash is never seen on the table either, Tournament wise speaking, and I too have never seen him at any point in my life. Mannfred is not seen in any competitive lists, alongside units like the Coven Throne, Riderless Zombie Dragon and Black Coach. And now imagine if you had a good Battalion, that you had to take Brokk as your general. That's the problem with the way they've handled allegiances. And I agree once again, that LoN is not a terrible battletome, but when compared to forces like Tzneetch or Stormcast, things can get very disheartening and annoying. Honestly, if those two Battletomes were toned down, there would be a lot less griping and anger in general when it comes to AoS. It also wouldn't annoy me that 1/3rd of all the players I have ever faced are Stormcast players, who have things like d3 mortal wound weapons FOR FREE in their retributor squads or ungodly monsters like Stardrakes, which still don't see the table as much. LoN is a good book, in my opinon, but certainly not great in comparison to what is ruling the meta right now. That isnt a good comparison though. You have good allegiances that in no way require you to take named characters. You have the choice of multiple other Heroes who also have good command abilities that can lead the various legions. Yes they have to be general if you take them in the list, but you are not forced to take them by any stretch. Stormcast were only good cause of a couple really good battalions(Vanguard wing pre-FAQ), nothing to do with an overpowered battletome. Tzeentch is in their own space with the power of destiny dice and I feel like nothing should match that, it simply needs to be toned down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BURF1 Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 3 minutes ago, Drofnum said: That isnt a good comparison though. You have good allegiances that in no way require you to take named characters. You have the choice of multiple other Heroes who also have good command abilities that can lead the various legions. Yes they have to be general if you take them in the list, but you are not forced to take them by any stretch. Stormcast were only good cause of a couple really good battalions(Vanguard wing pre-FAQ), nothing to do with an overpowered battletome. Tzeentch is in their own space with the power of destiny dice and I feel like nothing should match that, it simply needs to be toned down. It's completely impossible to take anyone who complains about Paladins seriously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drofnum Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 5 minutes ago, BURF1 said: It's completely impossible to take anyone who complains about Paladins seriously. I was almost starting to think I was the one being unreasonable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killax Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 @WoollyMammoth I can completely agree with you that a lot within AoS can be improved. One of the massive improvements at least for Legions of Nagash is that with Graves I feel the Legions stand a fighting chance. I can only say that at least 80% of your write up on the Graves is worth a topic on itself to have new Death players understand what they can go for and what they can be up to. Because this Legions of Nagash force is not like any GH2016 or GH2017 Death we've seen before.@Undeadly I can only say that indeed not all named characters serve an actual purpose for AoS, for better or worse. Because while some do I also think that the flexability obtained by non named characters is usually better/more fun. At least from a tactical perspective it also makes things much less predictable. In 40K I play World Eaters and the only named character that can actually represent them well is Khârn, no alternative to that is given. I feel, especially with the Vampire Lord on Zombie Dragon kit the possabilities are endless. The newly named Prince might actually be the best of the Vampires now as he doesn't force you to pick him as a general. Having said that, I think a ton of potential is found in running Vampire Lords on foot and using the mount, Zombie Dragon or Terrorgheist solo might actually end up better. The biggest prospect I fear as a future opponent is actually Legion of Night, because of ambushing Terrorgheists and Zombie Dragons combined with Deathrattle units that have a 5+/4+ save on their side of the board while presenting 40 'healing' bodies and a slew of attacks. That unit in particular combined with Legion of Night has a good potential to be one of the best hordes in the game now s it's Movement weakness can be removed. In addition to that, smaller bases as most horde units have.... Now my instant question becomes, was there any previous ruling on their weapons? Can you still mix handweapons (front) and spears (back)? 16 minutes ago, Undeadly said: LoN is a good book, in my opinon, but certainly not great in comparison to what is ruling the meta right now. With the info we have now, I think it's most certainly on par with Nurgle, can compete with at least Khorne and Seraphon and has a rather good option against Stormcast and/or Fyreslayers. The latter two can get problematic when you can't break their numbers fast enough. Otherwise I'd give LoN the "favour of the unknowing" now meaning using your army well now will likely score you a tournament win. This is comming with a list of Legion of Night in mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drofnum Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 3 minutes ago, Killax said: Now my instant question becomes, was there any previous ruling on their weapons? Can you still mix handweapons (front) and spears (back)? Their scroll is worded the same as Saurus Warriors for example and the consensus on them is that you pick one weapon for the entire unit. I would love to see that be different purely for selfish reasons but all the scrolls i've seen with similar wording has you pick one. 'Ardboyz are the only unit i'm aware of that can mix and match weapons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killax Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 1 minute ago, Drofnum said: Their scroll is worded the same as Saurus Warriors for example and the consensus on them is that you pick one weapon for the entire unit. I would love to see that be different purely for selfish reasons but all the scrolls i've seen with similar wording has you pick one. 'Ardboyz are the only unit i'm aware of that can mix and match weapons. Yes... Just saw the new Warscroll and it also clearly states units. Isn't of a massive concern though, I'd say Spears it is then because hitting on 3+ is nice but having the whole unit attack is going to have more effect.@RuneBrush thanks again for the collection: http://runebrush.pa-sy.com/2018/01/legions-of-nagash-warscroll-leaks/ *Also found out Reddit guy was indeed the fellow that snatched the book up before me The more and more I look into Legion of Night the more it pleases me to be honest. For example, ambushing a good slew of Morghast Harbingers... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richelieu Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 From someone who deeply loves paladins despite their many flaws, I can say that until your opponent realize that they can just avoid them all game because they're slower than a snail, their tremendous offensive punch can seem unfair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Requizen Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 I'm curious to see how strong the book is. There's definitely power, but not the traditional idea of it. It's going to be a lot like Changehost, where you do MWs, but the real power is flooding the board and Objectives with bodies that are hard to kill while slowing down your enemy. 40 Skeletons are not easy to kill in one go, and even 15+ Dire Wolves can be a slog to get through for all but the killiest units. "Power units" like Morghasts or Varghiests that pay extra points to be killy are a trap, I think, though a unit to threaten flanks might not be amiss. While it's not flashy and might lead to longer games, I think the overall effect will be that large model count armies that focus on regenning and objective control will do pretty well against lots of current meta builds. @ the Paladin discussion, yeah unless you're using a Battalion to drop them in they're pretty middling. Protectors are hard to kill at least and 10 are good at holding the midfield (hard to shoot and beat up most things in melee) but other than that it's a bit sad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killax Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 1 minute ago, Requizen said: "Power units" like Morghasts or Varghiests that pay extra points to be killy are a trap, I think, though a unit to threaten flanks might not be amiss. While it's not flashy and might lead to longer games, I think the overall effect will be that large model count armies that focus on regenning and objective control will do pretty well against lots of current meta builds. Yeah so far I think there is a real place for power units, be it under the Legion of Blood (Blood Knights) or Grand Host (Morghast). What I can say for certain though is that most tactical depth in terms of actual units and their choices plus durability so far is found in Legion of Night. - LoN allows for Morghast Harbingers to be in the Ambush and come out 3d6" charge range. - LoN allows for Terrorgheists or Zombie Dragons to be a medium expensive Ambush unit. - Perhaps the best of it all, LoN allows for a Vampire Lord on Zombie Dragon to be used as an Ambush unit. This way you do miss out on some abilities and magic, but at the same time it means it can arrive where it has to. The most consistent choice out of these are the Morghast however. Lastly what I probably like the most is that The Bait allows you to really put the Skeleton Warriors just on your side of the centerline to have some decent armour that can be good armour if opponents don't have rend. Add this all up and I think you can present a good issue against quite a lot of armies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gotrek Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 Damnit. Cant find the screenshot anymore. Do the gravesites say units regen if they are within 9" of ANY or is it per gravesite Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xasz Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 3 minutes ago, Gotrek said: Damnit. Cant find the screenshot anymore. Do the gravesites say units regen if they are within 9" of ANY or is it per gravesite Nope, they stack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killax Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 8 minutes ago, Gotrek said: Damnit. Cant find the screenshot anymore. Do the gravesites say units regen if they are within 9" of ANY or is it per gravesite http://www.mengelminiatures.com/2018/02/review-legions-of-nagash_5.html Quote Two of them must go in your territory, while the other two can go anywhere on the table. Any unit with the Summonable keyword can start the game off the board and be brought on to the Gravesite by any Death hero within 9". No roll, they just come on and set up wholly within 9" of the site and 9" away from the enemy. Their other ability, and their main draw for me, is that in your hero phase you can pick one Summonable unit within 9" of the Gravesite and heal D3 wounds, or if they have no wounds missing, bring back D3 wounds worth of models. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drofnum Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 16 minutes ago, Gotrek said: Damnit. Cant find the screenshot anymore. Do the gravesites say units regen if they are within 9" of ANY or is it per gravesite Invigorating Aura: At the start of your hero phase, pick a friendly summonable unit within 9" of this gravesite. You can either heal D3 wounds that have been allocated to the unit or, if no wounds are currently allocated to the unit, you may return a number of slain models to it that have a combined wound characteristic equal to or less than the roll of a D3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
choocheelo Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 Guys.. Nagash tell me this... taptap:) your welcome... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killax Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 1 minute ago, choocheelo said: Guys.. Nagash tell me this... https://drive.google.com/open?id=1LTnPwXtPeVtPm15HdUiU9CxYcsptGUUV your welcome... Psssst Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xasz Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 The LoNight ability is really hard to evaluate without playtesting. It could be bonkers, it could be too situational or just meh. Probably the legion I find most interesting besides Arkhan shenanigans but would probably lead to another melee heavy army... and I get my fix with khorne on that part. My initial brain storm would be: Spoiler Allegiance: Legion of NightLeadersVampire Lord On Zombie Dragon (440)- Deathlance & Shield & ChaliceVampire Lord (140)- General- Mount: Flying HorrorNecromancer (110)Necromancer (110)Battleline2 x Morghast Harbingers (220)- Deathlords Battleline2 x Morghast Harbingers (220)- Deathlords Battleline40 x Skeleton Warriors (280)- Ancient Spear & Shield40 x Skeleton Warriors (280)- Ancient Spear & Shield5 x Dire Wolves (60)5 x Dire Wolves (60)Units1 x Corpse Cart (80)Total: 2000 / 2000Allies: 0 / 400Wounds: 159 But this point it is kind of a Grand Host in disguise. Will be interesting to see which legions prevail in the long run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
choocheelo Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 Just now, Killax said: Psssst ok.. but there Lores, Battalions and Alligeances... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killax Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 Just now, choocheelo said: ok.. but there Lores, Battalions and Alligeances... Sssssshhhh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drofnum Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 1 minute ago, Xasz said: The LoNight ability is really hard to evaluate without playtesting. It could be bonkers, it could be too situational or just meh. Probably the legion I find most interesting besides Arkhan shenanigans but would probably lead to another melee heavy army... and I get my fix with khorne on that part. My initial brain storm would be: Hide contents Allegiance: Legion of NightLeadersVampire Lord On Zombie Dragon (440)- Deathlance & Shield & ChaliceVampire Lord (140)- General- Mount: Flying HorrorNecromancer (110)Necromancer (110)Battleline2 x Morghast Harbingers (220)- Deathlords Battleline2 x Morghast Harbingers (220)- Deathlords Battleline40 x Skeleton Warriors (280)- Ancient Spear & Shield40 x Skeleton Warriors (280)- Ancient Spear & Shield5 x Dire Wolves (60)5 x Dire Wolves (60)Units1 x Corpse Cart (80)Total: 2000 / 2000Allies: 0 / 400Wounds: 159 But this point it is kind of a Grand Host in disguise. Will be interesting to see which legions prevail in the long run. Nice thing about that list is that you could easily run multiple legions/grand host with it depending on who you are playing and your preference and still have a pretty solid army. I think thats one of the cool things, the Legions are almost like the KO ports so long as you arent taking the named characters you can swap between them to find what fits your playstyle best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
choocheelo Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 Just now, Killax said: Sssssshhhh ok... now i understand... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elmir Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 This might have been said elsewhere... But I feel Legion of Night will probably be slightly better with 2 units of morghast harbingers (great weapons are my preference) and a VLoZD using either terrifying visage (to do a bravery bomb) or using the above suspicion command trait, allowing a regular vampire to tag along to summon a balewind vortex to push the VLoZD another 3". Can't hurt if you give the assisting vampire on balewind a shard of night for -1 to hit in the shooting phase against him AND a nice long range orb spell . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killax Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 Just now, choocheelo said: ok... now i understand... I'm totally on board with Legion of Night discussion though. I see Morghast Harbingers, I see Ambush, 3D6 charges, pen apple pen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swarmofseals Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 12 minutes ago, Xasz said: The LoNight ability is really hard to evaluate without playtesting. It could be bonkers, it could be too situational or just meh. Probably the legion I find most interesting besides Arkhan shenanigans but would probably lead to another melee heavy army... and I get my fix with khorne on that part. My initial brain storm would be: Reveal hidden contents Allegiance: Legion of NightLeadersVampire Lord On Zombie Dragon (440)- Deathlance & Shield & ChaliceVampire Lord (140)- General- Mount: Flying HorrorNecromancer (110)Necromancer (110)Battleline2 x Morghast Harbingers (220)- Deathlords Battleline2 x Morghast Harbingers (220)- Deathlords Battleline40 x Skeleton Warriors (280)- Ancient Spear & Shield40 x Skeleton Warriors (280)- Ancient Spear & Shield5 x Dire Wolves (60)5 x Dire Wolves (60)Units1 x Corpse Cart (80)Total: 2000 / 2000Allies: 0 / 400Wounds: 159 But this point it is kind of a Grand Host in disguise. Will be interesting to see which legions prevail in the long run. You should really consider Prince Vhordrai instead of the VLoZD. For 40 pts more you get massively more killing power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gotrek Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 Thanks guys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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