Anyone else having a harder time finding games since 40k 8th?

[DarkBlack]

Are you?

AoS around here has become quite rare, with more of our players leaving their swords in the box in favour of bolters. Anyone else? (our main "driving force" converting to Wyrd isn't helping either though)

I play deamons, so no a huge deal for me specifically; 40k actually seems similar to AoS now, but with some less than amazing things weeded out.

[Kugane]

AOS was very rare already in my area already, I only had like 3 other players here. Ever since 40k 8th edition release those are gone as well, leaving me with no players at all. I'm hoping AOS gets some new exciting support soon so some players will return. I think right now AOS is pretty much summarized as Stormcast vs Daemons vs Sylvaneth in terms of viability. That just won't cut it I think. I tried 40k, but the setting just isn't my thing. There is a gaming club that has some AOS players a few cities away from here. Guess I will check that out soon. Perhaps you can look for a club as well?

[DarkBlack]

I have a friend with some KO he owns mainly for the models, so get a game from time to time. For the rest of the time, I'm growing weary of GW, so play Infinity or KoW.

[Dan.Ford]

I think people/players are doing some points adjustments this weekend or start of a look at the points.

This may lead to other lists becoming more of a thing.  Instead of Order vs 2-4 Chaos lists & 2-4 destruction lists.

.....Death hmm  Next year sometime maybe

New list building ahead

[stratigo]

My area has a ****** ton of players, a number of which prefer AoS. Few of us burned out on 40k (especially the ork players).

[KillagoreFaceslasha]

8 minutes ago, stratigo said:

My area has a ****** ton of players, a number of which prefer AoS. Few of us burned out on 40k (especially the ork players).

Go figure, to my understanding greentide is "the way to go" and it's beyond painfull to make a skirmish with 200+ models.

[Uveron]

I had a bit of a deterioration. 

But I started casting a wider net around and built a network of AOS Gamers via facebook, so we are still getting some games in 

[Killax]

Yes, quite honestly and I can't blame them either because 8th edition is a great game and arguably the best edition of Warhammer 40.000 Ive ever played. There are still some conceptual flaws but nothing a tournament/hous-rule system can't remove. In fact the flaws also only occur the moment you skip any narrative logic and just want to combine the best combo with the best combo, which is something AoS had with GH2016 too under the Grand Allegiances.

GH2017 in my opinion was a great step forward but at the same time a few things dissapointed me:
1. Not all new Allegiances are as good as the other. In quite some cases it isn't even remotely close. This issue was around with GH2016 too but now it's even more clear.
2. Battalions are still costed in incredibly strange ways. There simply put is no logical cost deviced behind them, none.
3. Scenery is now scrapped to a Forest and a Vortex. In my eyes this is one of the largest mistakes the designers made. Because what could make Age of Sigmar at least as interesting as Warhammer 40.000 is a good format for scenery and it's uses incorporated into the game itself. The fact that the gates play no role under the current matched rulesset is not only dissapointing it's a complete waste of potential.

Now if a GH2018 is in the works I think the game could go to full glory without changing it's basic Core Rules (which leave a lot to be desired still) would be to:
- Create and be open about all Allegiances to come. A lot of AoS design is still vague and it is a reason why people don't dive deep into it.
- Create Battalions with a propper cost or just limit each army to one. To date the Battalion design is just not right. There are things costing a 100 points that should be more and there are things costing 220 points that are objectively worse as that.
- Create a good AoS Fantasy Scenery Warscroll set that promotes the use of all the awesome pieces.

Offtopic, I recently found out that this excisted:


Can anyone tell me when this was released or if any AoS player is honestly interested in this?
I have no clue of what it does but I do know that most scenery rules are either too insane to use or more commonly still skipped altogether and just a LoS blocking piece.

The massive advantage of models not moved per unit block like Warhammer Fantasy is that they allow for some awesome scenery to properly be used. So why is the system still not incorporating this?
 

[Infeston]

18 minutes ago, Killax said:

Can anyone tell me when this was released or if any AoS player is honestly interested in this?
I have no clue of what it does but I do know that most scenery rules are either too insane to use or more commonly still skipped altogether and just a LoS blocking piece.

As far as I know it was released at the same time the new citadel of the Everchosen fortress set was released. The walls have no special rules. I think somewhere it was stated that they can be used to display if one of the dreadhold fortress walls is broken, but nothing more.

[Cookiez]

Yes and no, I'd say... 

Yes, because the influx of new players have stopped. And, as someone have said earlier - I don't blame them. The new 40k edition is really good. While having some vices, in overall, it's soooo great. It has everything that AoS lacks - quick balancing patches, terrain features (although not as good, as they used to be), many tournament viable lists and factions. Unfortunately GH17 was a really bad book in terms of balance (just like AoS from te beginning I suppose...) and what we got now is only few tier 1 factions with others far behind. And even those top factions have rather strict builds that don't vary much.  And you want to play Destruction or Death competitively, and all the rest Chaos or Order? Yeah, sure. Have fun spending your money on great looking models with no chances of winning (getting tabled turn 2, max 3 probably by a guy with 120 Bloodletters or Changehost), regardles of your skill. And please, don't even try saying otherwise, it's getting so obvious right now.

No, because we are lucky to have a quite large playerbase - people who just love this game and try to do their best in given situation. 

[Infeston]

9 minutes ago, Cookiez said:

Unfortunately GH17 was a really bad book in terms of balance (just like AoS from te beginning I suppose...) and what we got now is only few tier 1 factions with others far behind. And even those top factions have rather strict builds that don't vary much.  And you want to play Destruction or Death competitively, and all the rest Chaos or Order? Yeah, sure. Have fun spending your money on great looking models with no chances of winning (getting tabled turn 2, max 3 probably by a guy with 120 Bloodletters or Changehost), regardles of your skill. And please, don't even try saying otherwise, it's getting so obvious right now.

I am still sad about the nerf of the Stonehorn, because i liked the model a lot. Now nobody plays BCR units anymore. Before there were many people using the Stonehorn. And I have the fear that they won't get any support in AoS if people stop playing BCR. There would have been different ways to fix the Stonehorn instead of nerfing it into nonexistence. I wouldn't even be so sad if they would have adjusted the points of the Stonehorn to compensate for the huge nerf. 

But there are many more examples for unnecessary nerfs in the GHB, which put some factions in a bad shape, which in my opinion shouldn't have been nerfed that bad whereas other factions (like Stormcast) got only little nerfs, which didn't make them more balanced.

[Killax]

9 minutes ago, Infeston said:

As far as I know it was released at the same time the new citadel of the Everchosen fortress set was released. The walls have no special rules. I think somewhere it was stated that they can be used to display if one of the dreadhold fortress walls is broken, but nothing more.

So why is it under new releases then? 

[Infeston]

5 minutes ago, Killax said:

So why is it under new releases then? 

Oh. I don't know. Isn't the citadel of the Everchosen also relatively new? For me the citadel can still be found under "New Releases". But it is also "Sold out".

[Uveron]

1 hour ago, Killax said:

So why is it under new releases then? 

It was put out a few weeks ago at the same time as shadespire.  and the other Christmas stuff

It showed up about the same time that the other kits that used to have them in went of the market. The have been out of stock 3 times in the USA since they were put up for sale, and I think are the final attempt to clear them out of wherehouse space. 

[Arkiham]

Aos has grown stale due to the lack of meaningful stuff for it. Last proper release was what? March? with karadon overlords.

Since then we've got some massively hyped up stuff for narrative (which has been fun for narrative ) but all hype promptly died when the matched play rules were seen  some hastily written scenery rules in a white dwarf magazine and a few cross over rules.

Nurgle has been teased now since middle of August with 1 massively disappointing rules wise model and deathguard have been getting drip fed models for what seems to be the entire year.  

The app has been a mess since ghb17 and the response of "were working on it " is frankly embarrassing now.. 

If you neglect something, don't be surprised when people dont pay attention to it.

[Kamose]

My AoS community has stayed strong even after the release of 8th ed.  We have a slightly larger 40k community than AoS but many players have armies for both.  It helps that my FLGS has a monthly event for AoS and another for 40k, so both player groups have something to look forward to each month.  My friends and I are running a Firestorm campaign with semi-weekly meetings along with some pick-up games, but most of the 40k games are pick-up Matched Play  games.  I think Firestorm, some Open War cards, and regular gaming nights go a long way to promoting a healthy gaming group for AoS. 

Also try to gently nudge people away from exclusively Matched Play gaming and towards some Narrative or Open Play.  I'm not saying there is anything wrong with Matched Play per se, however, I feel that players who emphasize competitive play to the exclusion of all other game types may (unintentionally) handicap themselves, their enjoyment, and their community.  If you and your play group only care about Matched Play, you will natural weed out 90% of the armies and play styles as uncompetitive.  Not because those 90% are necessarily "bad" or nonfunctional in the game but because they are not what the almighty INTERNET has declared to be "The Best".   After that, a fear of losing all the time or lack of 'balance' (whatever that means) or playing less competitive armies will drive many players away.  The saddest thing in this hobby is watching a gaming group implode or wither and die because their group's game nights did not match the overwhelming (and unrealistic) expectations that are bandied around the Internet.  The hobby should be about what you and your friends enjoy and want to try, not what the rectangle you are reading this on says you should be doing.

Narrative and, especially Open Play, do not suffer from this problem as much because there are few restrictions on what the players are allowed to do to have fun.  "I think right now AOS is pretty much summarized as Stormcast vs Daemons vs Sylvaneth in terms of viability. That just won't cut it I think."  This simply is not true.  AoS consists of "All the Armies vs. All the Armies" right now.  The only reason it may seem like "Stormcast vs Daemons vs Sylvaneth" is if you and your gaming group refuse to play any other armies or any other game type.  In short, don't handicap how you play.  Try new armies and new game types, and encourage your group to do the same! 

PS:  Yes, I understand the irony of telling people to ignore what the Internet says to do while writing a post on the Internet suggesting how you and your friends should play.    I feel like I can get away with it since my opinion seems to be in the minority.  '!!smoke bomb!!' 

[Uveron]

36 minutes ago, Arkiham said:

Aos has grown stale due to the lack of meaningful stuff for it. Last proper release was what? March? with karadon overlords.

I think a lot of unrest will be solved when we get a good release. There was the talk of Maeline Portents being AOS 2.0, and at this point we need a few months of good material. 

It will drive up interest in the game, 

I feel a bit like a broken record, but I have 'Faith' that things are going to work out. 

[Infeston]

24 minutes ago, Uveron said:

I think a lot of unrest will be solved when we get a good release. There was the talk of Maeline Portents being AOS 2.0, and at this point we need a few months of good material. 

It will drive up interest in the game, 

I feel a bit like a broken record, but I have 'Faith' that things are going to work out. 

I really hope a good release will come and that we don't get anything at the moment because of the production issues mentioned above. But many of the rumors about AoS are often only based on wishes and speculations and there are no "hard facts" to back things up. We think that we might get something in 2018 but it could also be that we get nothing at all. Or maybe just 4 models for each faction and this will be it.

There were many speculations about releases before, which were then proven to be wrong. At the moment I also have the feeling that in the end most of the rumor pictures which could be considered as AoS releases turn out to be 40k related or Stormcast releases. Or that many rumor pictures are just different parts of one single model.

The problems for me is that I don't really know if something will happen for AoS in 2018. I have seen many rumors and speculations turning out to be wrong. So I don't want to hype myself up for new AoS releases in 2018. 

After the new AoS logo there were many speculations what could happen in the new year. But it could also be that nothing will happen at all. A new AoS logo seems very vague. We don't know what this really means.

[Thostos]

2 hours ago, Killax said:

So why is it under new releases then? 

  These Dreadhold end peices were previously only available in a since discontinued "full Dreadhold" model pack.Myself,having been into AoS from day one,picked up the Dreadhold pieces as they were released and when the packaged kit I mentioned above was released I had already had most all the pieces in it yet didnt have these ends.Certainly im not the only one that missed out on those,,but its most certain that there are very few players in my position with this old release as well.As you can imagine I jumped on these as soon as they came up a few weeks back and now I can play my 6 wall pieces and not have the ugly open ends show,,especially when I do photo shots of games.

  And yes,,indeed there are rules for the Dreadhold walls,,they are actually very useful in game:)

 

[AverageBoss]

I mean I am an actual Henchman for Wyrd (I like Infinity ok too), but I still manage to play and help push AoS in my area, and play in every event. We have a group that has been slowly growing from the 3-4 people that stuck around after the end times. We have about 12-14 currently.

I actually try to help most games in the shop get a little growth, except 40K. 40K does not need any help.

 

[Thostos]

  AoS in my area is still growing quite well.Actually I would say that since the 40koS release I would say 40k around the area seems to be rather flat as I dont see the usual retinue of area tournaments being posted like in past years.Yet im in my 6th week of an ongoing Firestorm campaign with 10 players and we already have more interested for the next one to start after the first of the year.AND,I have a shop ITC tourney im running next Sat that had 12 slots available and is full now.I plan to run at least 3 ITC`s next year and we usually have a major during the Summer,im sure that will draw a fair amount from the region.

  I bought into 40koS since us AoS players have basically been beta testing parts of it over the past few years.I played a ton of 40k before AoS as well.The new version is great! and ive got a fully built (20% painted) DeathGuard army,though ive yet to get it on the table with all my AoS activities.Nothing against the new version but honestly,the AoS app and the versatility of AoS with its abitlity to scale well all the way from 5 model skirmish battles up to full blown 2500+ point grand battles is just more appealing right now.To top it off the awesome release of Shadespire meshes very well with AoS with the warbands getting points and all.My Bonesplitterz have added Bloodtoof allies now:).Yet with Necromunda(just getting into that now too)  as the 40koS skirmish game,there is no cross over at all.,,still both great games of course.Finally,im a bit soured on the the points changes already taking place in the CA book,,I mean my DG book is somewhat outdated just a few weeks into its release...ho humm.

  AoS still has that stygma of being a "simple" game with goofy fluff,its still bashed  in neckbeardom,for many it will never be a game they play.But what we have done in our area is brought in new players to the genre through AoS.Im also seeing a few 40k players that were pumped for the new edition show interest in AoS again.

 

 

[Peacemaker]

Well AoS and 40k are very similar. .....it may not seem like much but having a strength and toughness value really does make the units feel and act alot differently. And it gives that extra layer of tactics and strategy to the game.  .....and of course your characters can't be targeted like in AoS so you don't get those conga lines to back of the board - which helps alot with immersion.  And the strategems help alot with overall strategy and tactics.
Combine this with the fact that most guys under 30 enjoy the competitive side of the game so they really like the nitty gritty point system for list building.
Combine again with the fact that Sci-Fi is just popular.

So this will make it harder to get games of AoS.
Heh, could always port over some AoS armies into 40k. ...its not that hard, lol.

[someone2040]

I actually think AoS is on the rise in my area.

The past year has been pretty excellent for AoS, we started running tournaments this year that got some pretty good turn outs (16-20 players). The GHB2017 seems pretty well received. 

I also think that 40k has been very hit or miss with people. I think from our perspective as AoSers, 40k looks pretty cool and nifty, and in some ways has improved the 'core' rules from AoS and expanded them for the most part in the right direction (More terrain rules in the base game, character targeting, etc). But what I've been hearing from my hobby acquaintances is that they aren't exactly thrilled with new 40k, and actually prefer playing Age of Sigmar at the moment. 

 

So yeah, I reckon that Age of Sigmar is doing pretty well in my area of the world. We're already pretty excited for next year (Where a bunch of us will be starting out the new year by partaking in Australia's biggest AoS tournament, Cancon), we've got our regular tournaments in the pipeline and even looking at the potential of running a 2 day tournament next year.

[PlasticCraic]

23 minutes ago, someone2040 said:

So yeah, I reckon that Age of Sigmar is doing pretty well in my area of the world. We're already pretty excited for next year (Where a bunch of us will be starting out the new year by partaking in Australia's biggest AoS tournament, Cancon), we've got our regular tournaments in the pipeline and even looking at the potential of running a 2 day tournament next year.

Where are you guys heading to Canberra from?  There's gonna be 8-10 of us from Bendigo (central Vic) making the journey, can't wait!

It's kind of a mixture at our club...AOS has definitely been growing strongly, and it's about level with 40k now (maybe even slightly bigger).  However I do think that it might start to fizzle out if the first few months of 2018 are as flat as the last few months have been. 

My own opinion / gut feel is that the buzz around AOS in our area is at least partly thanks to having CanCon to target.  For example, most of the Destruction players have been quietly dropping their armies and buying into The Order 'n' Chaos Show, which if we didn't have the competitive pull of CanCon driving everything (not just for those players, but for the practice games they line up at club meets, the chat on the group FB page etc), I could imagine a percentage would have just moved away from AOS instead.  In my case (scientific poll of 1!) I can say that I bought about 7,000 points of Destruction up to GH17 dropping, and about 800 points since (a 90% drop).  And recently I've started picking up some second hand GSC and Tyranids instead, with a view to playing more 40k after CanCon.

So in my own local area, I would objectively say AOS is in rude health right now, but they can't take that for granted.  I could see a big swing away from it in the New Year if it doesn't get some serious attention, and I'm not referring to releasing another Stormcast hero.  Most of the constructive criticisms above (for example, Batallions not being properly recosted in a paid-for points update) are in my opinion valid.  But overall AOS is still in a great position to kick on from here, so let's hope it gets the love it deserves.

[someone2040]

13 minutes ago, PlasticCraic said:

Where are you guys heading to Canberra from?  There's gonna be 8-10 of us from Bendigo (central Vic) making the journey, can't wait!

It's kind of a mixture at our club...AOS has definitely been growing strongly, and it's about level with 40k now (maybe even slightly bigger).  However I do think that it might start to fizzle out if the first few months of 2018 are as flat as the last few months have been. 

My own opinion / gut feel is that the buzz around AOS in our area is at least partly thanks to having CanCon to target.  For example, most of the Destruction players have been quietly dropping their armies and buying into The Order 'n' Chaos Show, which if we didn't have the competitive pull of CanCon driving everything (not just for those players, but for the practice games they line up at club meets, the chat on the group FB page etc), I could imagine a percentage would have just moved away from AOS instead.  In my case (scientific poll of 1!) I can say that I bought about 7,000 points of Destruction up to GH17 dropping, and about 800 points since (a 90% drop).  And recently I've started picking up some second hand GSC and Tyranids instead, with a view to playing more 40k after CanCon.

So in my own local area, I would objectively say AOS is in rude health right now, but they can't take that for granted.  I could see a big swing away from it in the New Year if it doesn't get some serious attention, and I'm not referring to releasing another Stormcast hero.  Most of the constructive criticisms above (for example, Batallions not being properly recosted in a paid-for points update) are in my opinion valid.  But overall AOS is still in a great position to kick on from here, so let's hope it gets the love it deserves.

We'll be flying across from Adelaide. I think you're right in that tournaments definitely help with the ongoing drive. We had our last tournament for the year late October, and originally it was not in the schedule. My suspicion is that tournament wasn't in place, we may have felt that drive fall down a bit as people may have been distracted by other projects.

Absolutely agree though that 2018 really needs to kick things into gear properly. GHB2017 can only keep the interest afloat for so long, in the mean time 40k are getting codexes every month which is keeping things interesting on that side and has the potential to draw people away to a system that's getting more interest.