Age of sigmar & terrain

[Arkiham]

Terrain forms a large part of age of sigmar, much more so than Warhammer fantasy where it was typically ignored and shunned upon to put down more than 6 pieces. 

i remember seeing a example of a good idea for the amount of terrain in AoS being 1.5 pieces per 1 square foot so 16 total for a 4x6 battlefield.

now this doesnt mean you need to plop down 16 witchfate tors or skullvane manses etc, but id recommend using some terrain which blocks line of sight and not be afraid to have this more central.

This doesnt seem to be a very popular thing to do, mainly due to not wanting to upset someone who happen to have brought alot of shooting.

shooting in Age of sigmar is alot stronger than it was in WHFB. the ability to shoot into combat and not suffer penalties shooting at longer ranges has greatly increased the amount of shooting units in action. 

now im not saying to buy loads of line of sight ( LoS ) blocking terrain and dump it all in the middle but to at least have a varied terrain. 

here are some pieces that i use,  which Games workshop no longer sell

 

Witchfate tor - hard to come by

deathknell watch - hard to come by

eternity stair - hard to come by

Dreadstone blight - hard to come by

some good alternatives which games workshop sell can be found 

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Warhammer?N=647457687+669229921&Nr=AND(sku.siteId:GB_gw,product.locale:en_GB_gw)&view=all

not everything needs to be a building, walls, forests, rivers are great soft terrain.

 

some things i also use i found on ebay.

ebay is a great source for terrain for war gaming. ill post some pictures of stuff i plan on using or use,( keep in mind i have a grass theme'd board, many sellers do sell alternative colours/schemes to the ones ill post. )

rivers are a great look for a battlefield, its a shame they dont have rules but it can be used in a narrative manner or just for looks,

but as shown in the pictures alot of it allows you to hide a normal sized person behind or set up choke points etc.

there seems to be an aversion from the community in general to using alot of terrain, and im hoping we can discuss it and try change that view. 

if anyone else has good quality pics please share, always good to know whats about 

[Burf]

Large swaths of NA just straight up don't use terrain rules, fun fact.

[RuneBrush]

I also think a certain amount of imagination is required too.  Dense woods should block line of sight when shooting through and realm gates are a swirling mass of energy - just the model doesn't really show that.

I'm hoping that with the creation of cities across the realms we're going to see more terrain pieces starting to appear.

Another one to add to your list is Laketown from The Hobbit.  Although it's a slightly smaller scale, it does work quite well on an AoS board

[Arkiham]

i didnt include rules on the terrain on purpose. 

this being as many dont use them as you said, tournament wise due to the variance could win or loose the game for them and i think thats a fair assessment.

 

but the terrain games workshop does produce can and does block LoS but if people  only buy the stuff which doesnt (as I've seen) its no wonder why it doesnt block LoS. three peices which does easily block LoS are

• chaos dreadhold components
• ophidian archway
• numinus occulum

nearly all their old buildings do many of which games workshop actively use, so there is definitely an emphasis on using terrain to block LoS 

 i dont think its fair to expect games-workshop to allow rival companies terrain in their stores or events, from talk ive seen soon mantic will with all likelihood be expecting people to use exclusively mantic models, apparently there is already a % of which has to be mantic models at their events.

 

the actual speical rules of the terrain is best left to narrative and they can massively improve some armies ( chaos/death ) 
 

but yes, the view on terrain needs to change in general, maybe if games workshop see the community trying to change it they will also try to encourage it.

 

Tournament organisers need to try a little harder maybe to try diversify the terrain seen on table tops and make it less like barren flat wastelands with the only scenery dotted around the outside so as not to interrupt shooting 

[Veillotron]

@Arkiham - great thread!

@Auticus - thank you for the detailed response.

I'll follow @RuneBrush's example and suggest a LoTR kit - Ruins of Osigiliath: https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Ruins-of-Osgiliath.

 

I actually prefer to play games with terrain, it makes the game more exciting and requires a little bit more thinking re startegy. Regarding the rules, I do prefer using the standard AoS terrain rules (the list of 6 options...) as opposed to using every terrain-specific rules, which a) can favor one army over the other and b) adds another layer of rules (I could understand some players not wanting to have to learn - and probably forget - the specific rules for 8 different terrain pieces on the board). For tournament, if every table had one or two specific terrain with a special rule, I think that this would be a cool approach.

The one WHite Dwarf issue I wish I could get back was one from the early nineties, and they showed you how to build a Bretonnian cottage. They had the templates included in the magazine, it was relatively easy to do and it was such a cool project. So yes, I would also love it if GW came back with that sort of approach.

 

 

[Tizianolol]

What about shattered dominion scenary set, or a simple wharammer scenary set.They are  not cheap but after you bought it I think it's enought to play a 2000 pts game!!:) 

[Arkiham]

24 minutes ago, Auticus said:

I think it removes a lot of the game when we allow terrain to be excluded because it has an impact in the game that it helps win or lose games.  

true, but when matched play is about army lists an tactics more than story its not too much to exclude them. not much of the terrain is neutral to all factions mind, some of it greatly improving chaos.

 

with the introduction of rules for the 9 realms i suspect youll see an increased presence of narrative for those that way inclined hopefully with terrain to match.

anyway, any more suggestions on other terrain?

[chord]

I would love for them to reprint the Mighty Fortress!  generic castle terrain that was a fair price and modular so it could configured differently.  The current castle (dreadhold) is so Khorne-y it just doesn't fit for most armies

[Veillotron]

1 minute ago, chord said:

I would love for them to reprint the Mighty Fortress!  generic castle terrain that was a fair price and modular so it could configured differently.  The current castle (dreadhold) is so Khorne-y it just doesn't fit for most armies

The LoTR fortress kits are also  quite nice, and there are a few available on ebay...

[chord]

Just now, Veillotron said:

The LoTR fortress kits are also  quite nice, and there are a few available on ebay...

Are they on the GW Store?  All I see is the ruins one. 

[Veillotron]

Just now, chord said:

Are they on the GW Store?  All I see is the ruins one. 

No, they stop selling them. Google Minas Tirith gate terrain, or Helm's Deep Fortress, or just search on ebay ofr LoTR terrain. The kits are really nice, and seem to be priced reasonably (contrary to most Bretonnian / Tomb King models).

Those kits would come in handy for Siege battles...

[Veillotron]

8 minutes ago, Auticus said:

Thats just the thing though.  Matched play is not balanced either so there are army lists that are vastly superior than others too.  I think having scenery adds a layer of tactics that you need to employ, which in turn makes the game more about tactics and less about army list construction.   I realize this comes down to the root of the matched play issue though which is that people buy armies around the concept that terrain will have negligible impact, and thus get angry when someone wants terrain to have more impact as they chose their purchases based on what they consider "standard".  I think if tournaments used more terrain like this, that this would impact purchasing decisions and reduce the anger.

Fully agree with you re terrain pieces and tactics.

Re the pushback from players at tournaments, if the use of terrain is communicated well in advance, folks shouldn't have a reason to complain - you know the rules of the game, and so plan accordingly. 

Steve Wren's  Holy Wars event is exactly the type of event that I would like to attend - every board is unique, with specific them and special rules... And folks can't complain - they have the rule pack in advance and can prepare...

 

[Kramer]

2 hours ago, RuneBrush said:

Dense woods should block line of sight when shooting through

We use that too. For our playgroup the rule for forest/jungle is: Jungles block line of sight, when a unit/model is fully in a jungle he is able to see (and shoot) outwards. If a model or unit is in the jungle it can be targeted but counts as being in cover as normal. 

Love terrain in AoS, I think the reason my play group doesn't find shooting that overpowered is because our terrain. 

[Veillotron]

2 minutes ago, Auticus said:

This is why my hope is bigger tournaments like LVO or adepticon or NOVA etc start doing this more.

The Holy Wars event is also something I'd love to do as well.  I tried organizing something like it a few years back, we just didn't have the interest.  I may have to just start driving / flying more.

It would indeed help if the bigger tournaments used more terrain. It seems that they are used more often in the UK than in the US - probably in part because everyone going to WHW gets exposed to terrain-rich tables. I guess for the tournament organizers, the challenge becomes the investment (not only money, but time as well) required for all that terrain. @Ben talked on one of his podcasts how to leverage GW kits to make multiple terrain pieces, but it remains a challenge.

Re Holy Wars, I am surprised to hear that there wasn't much interest... Is it a question of "if you build it, they will come"? That is an even bigger investment, but oh so well worth it IMHO...

[Menkeroth]

Seconding on the terrain, it's a great part of the game indeed and makes your table much more interesting. It's the essence of the hobby after all - lines of painted models on the battlefield across the ruins, forests, swamps and fortresses. One of the best variant is to find relatively cheap and qualitative castles and such stuff which you can use as either castles for siege, for blocking LOS or simply as pieces of different terrain when you roll on the chart in the rules.

[JontyGoesGaming]

Ah terrain. A subject very very close to my heart. 

For me, the terrain is just as integral to the whole game as the miniatures. It's what sets the game apart from being played on tiles, or even with counters, it's what helps immerse us in a game that should be tactile and three dimensional. It's sad to hear of gaming communities who are so entrenched in matched play in its purest form that they won't even try more esoteric terrain. 

I don't think GW will ever go big on encouraging gamers to scratchbuild their tables when they offer so much product that helps achieve the same thing. That's just a practical business reality. But they've also been supportive in their own way. I was lucky enough to play in the Coalescence event at warhammer world, and GW let us include scratchbuilt terrain alongside their standard terrain pieces.

My biggest challenge is making enough to actually fill a 6x4 space. It's a big space to fill! 

Hope these images embed properly but....

Pegasus Hobbies -
Produce great buildings you can often find on ebay for reasonable prices. They're at a very slightly larger scale than GW so they have a decent footprint on the table - plus they're modular. 

https://pegasushobbies.net/catalog/p145/%234923-Gothic-City-Buildings-Large-Set/product_info.html

 

Cork Bark and Cork Bark tubes
Look at every single GW army book and you'll see cork bark cliffs in at least one picture. These are generally pretty cheap and easy. Saw them into smaller tubes, mount on mdf (or don't even) then they're easily sprayed a couple of colours with spray cans. I used Chaos black and some greys from the  Montana Gold range for these.

 

 

[Menkeroth]

8 minutes ago, JontyGoesGaming said:

For me, the terrain is just as integral to the whole game as the miniatures. It's what sets the game apart from being played on tiles, or even with counters, it's what helps immerse us in a game that should be tactile and three dimensional. It's sad to hear of gaming communities who are so entrenched in matched play in its purest form that they won't even try more esoteric terrain. 

This. Sadly, other people might not try it because they are dull and weak. It's better to play with unusual people than with these.

[WABBIT]

To the OP @ArkihamWhere did you find this? Looks like a great centerpiece and very AoS friendly. Is it a one off or does someone churn them out?

[Arkiham]

15 minutes ago, WABBIT said:

To the OP @ArkihamWhere did you find this? Looks like a great centerpiece and very AoS friendly. Is it a one off or does someone churn them out?

Ebay, unable to link it currently, there's snowy versions also.

 

[WABBIT]

Just now, Arkiham said:

Ebay, unable to link it currently, there's snowy versions also.

 

I had a look on ebay earlier but couldn't find it. who is the seller?

Thanks!

[The Golem]

1 minute ago, WABBIT said:

I had a look on ebay earlier but couldn't find it. who is the seller?

Thanks!

Here: http://stores.ebay.fr/ftdscenery?ssPageName=STRK:null:MESST&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2653

 

The specific terrain is here: http://www.ebay.fr/itm/Decor-warhammer-ruine-Wargame-Terrain-Scenery-ruins-/231942671386?hash=item3600dc4c1a

[WABBIT]

Just now, The Golem said:

Here: http://stores.ebay.fr/ftdscenery?ssPageName=STRK:null:MESST&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2653

Awesome thank you very much!

[firebat]

The first GT I attended in 6th edition got complaints because all the tables they had set up were all intricate modelled boards with loads of sloping levels and some with big castles and the like. Obviously this wasn't very suitable for 6th edition warhammer and the tables for the following events became a lot more generic but it's interesting that from 6th ed to today if there has been one sweeping change it's been to allow for more interaction with terrain and not just have them as pools of no go zones that no one bothered with other than wood elves.

There are a couple of issues I feel. As far as I was aware (and it could be different now, I haven't asked recently) the use of things like the plastic battle boards and scenery in the shop wasn't a mandate all had to follow but an attempt to raise standards as many shops had terrible tables with no terrain. Going back a decade there were workshops on making terrain over the summer.  But then they had the staff too and since then it's been gutted.

The 2nd issue is I think the rules as they stand are too scattershot and rolling for mystical terrain is just bad. When the focus is the models I think having generic wood be one thing one game and another thing in another isn't easy to remember and having more warscrolls floating around at the side of the board for the terrain than you might use in your whole army is just a hassle. I had been thinking about making some tables up that were more based around how the manor house warscroll works and have multiple pieces of terrain under one warscroll but then only have one of them providing any funky special rules and the rest be generic.  Now I think about it it's kind of a shame matched play isn't just based on the open war cards and they have more draws that dictate the field of the game rather than mainly the mission.

It's kind of amusing though that people get so hung up on things like point values and there being special 'balanced' scenarios for competitive play and then are happy to ignore the randomfest that is what counts as what on the table. I mean the rules recommend between 1 and 2 pieces for each 2'x2' section of the board. That could be 2 woods or it could be 2 manor houses that comprise of a chapel, a tower and a bunch of barricades each.

[The Golem]

Just now, WABBIT said:

Awesome thank you very much!

I bought a few pieces of terrain from this seller on eBay and I can recommend them.

[stato]

Can you guys please not spoil another thread with a variation on 'game is broken / players are broken' theme.  Lets talk about how you CAN make nice varied tables, what you can use, etc.  not why YOU cant or why some people might maon about it. We get it, people moan, lets keep them out of TGA.

For me Ive collected up a few Lord of the Rings terrain pieces and planning to build a ruined city. Ive got a green-stuff roller to make floor tiles which i plan to use within the buildings but also use to make a central ruined pathway i can use to set the buidlings around.  Combine with a few hills and rocky outcrops and a desert/badlands theme and im hopeful it will look good.