STOP WITH THE COMPLAINING AND REMEMBER WHY WE HAVE TGA.

[rokapoke]

4 minutes ago, hobgoblinclub said:

It's sadly deeply ironic that we now have a thread where people are moaning in great detail about being asked not to moan. Combine this with the comments debating what constitutes positivity and you have a frankly ludicrous thread. 

Almost everyone is agreement that TGA has suffered recently from negativity. What doesn't seem apparent is that all that negativity has most likely come from the people on this thread (not singling anyone out, it's simply probably judging by the length of the thread).

If members wish to leave as they're being asked to be positive, I can only assume that to be a good thing. If you don't want to be positive, TGA clearly isn't the place for you. 

This isn't the dawning of a new draconian regime. It's not Warseer. I hated Warseer in the end, I certainly wouldn't want to help mod a place like that. You're just being asked to, please, be nice. Please be positive. If that's an issue, please don't pay about why it is. Take some time, think about it, and then come back to TGA when you've something cool /interesting to discuss about AoS.

And, if you do decide to martyr yourself, please do so in a civilised manner. 

I've been out of "likes" today for a little while but I wanted to register my endorsement of this post. Well written, sir!

[hobgoblinclub]

4 minutes ago, Sete said:

This is acceptable? It's way more inflammatory than what Jamie posted.

 

In what way do you think it's inflammatory? I'm simple asking people to be positive. 

[Tzaangor Management]

1 minute ago, Kyriakin said:

I was going to buy some GW Fell Bats today, because I might actually want to play Soulblight in a GW shop.

It's hard to express my opinion on the aesthetics and price of these sculpts within this new forum "meta", so I will describe them as "interesting" and leave it there.

The Black Coach is very "interesting" too.

No, you're right, the GW Fell Bats are terrible, as is the Black Coach. Does anyone know of any cool alternatives?

I'm surprised by how many people are struggling with this and I would suggest that if you are worried about being banned, then you may be worried about your posting habits without actively acknowledging it. I think this requires some self-criticism, but be careful to make sure that it is constructive, or you may go into a spiral of negativity that is hard to get out of.

[Marc Wilson]

There's much disrespect in this thread in this thread to Ben and the Mods. It's a free forum, you don't own it, you don't have any rights - no one owes you a personalised response or has to answer your questions. People have lives and families and your feelings, I would guess, are quite far down the pecking order. It's pretty clear what the message is, if you can figure out how to maximise models when piling in you can interpret plain English - to claim not to is wilful ignorance. Here's the thing. It's not about you - don't like the message? Just carry on reading happily all the awesome content.

[inunn]

Okay I think there's a lot of talking across purposes going on here. Some people seem to think the mods are going to go around policing opinions, and that people with the wrong opinions are no longer welcome. But everything the mods have said is that this is not about whether or not you like/don't like something. Its about the vibe and energy of your contributions. I don't want to put words in the mouths of the mods but it seems to me that if you dislike something in the game or you have a criticism of the way GW have handled something, that's fine: just spend a minute or two thinking about how other people might respond to what you're saying. Don't force people to come at you from a point of view of opposition, try and get some ideas sparking. You'll be much more persuasive if you make people feel part of a cool discussion. Also just other basics of conversation apply. Assume people are acting in good faith, don't assume motives, ask open questions etc.

I'm the kind of person who likes a spirited debate too, and it's not hard to do that in a way that makes people enjoy talking to you. Just requires a little thought and effort.

[Naflem]

Speaking of toxic people, them new clan Pestilens abilities look freaking sweet.

 

too soon? 

[Rhellion]

10 minutes ago, Naflem said:

Speaking of toxic people, that new clan Pestilens abilities look freaking sweet.

 

too soon? 

HOW DARE YOU

[Veterannoob]

I'll chime in on why I stepped away for a bit and left other forums so maybe this is helpful but keep in mind it's only my personal experience. Don't b$tch all the time. If one needs that clarified , don't b$tch more than twice a day--I don't know, whatever common sense tells you is right for common courtesy.  Yes, as some have picked up on, especially non-native English speakers, use emoticons to mitigate misunderstandings. And that's solved a LOT IMHO on other forums/communities.

 

If if I come on and browse topics and see complaining over and over again from the same person, I use the ignore feature. Hell, added 3 from this thread alone. Doesn't mean they're bad people, I'm just not interested in hearing that so often as I come to a forum to celebrate the hobby I love, not to spend that time caught up in complaining.  The other forums @Ben widely added on the OP are places to me where that attitude is the norm and I suggest people go there to have like-minded discussion where complaining is the norm. It makes everyone happier, why fight on one forum when you know your view is much more accepted and reciprocated elsewhere?

 

its just not what I want to see when I elect to spend my time somewhere. Just as if I'm conversing with someone at an event and negative nelly walks up and we move away, hopefully after 1-2 times moving away he gets that's not the conversation we are having.

 

So I used the ignore feature. When that ignore list was so long and cost/benefit analysis of other forums reached a tipping point...it was time to move on. I can't really think of a better way to express this quickly on a work break.  If you're uncomfortable, probably try moving on to another forum. You can always come back, but no need to fight it.

 

As for the critique of echo chambers, I hear that everywhere. To a degree, yes, that's what I want. The other forums say positive places are echo chambers but in fact THEY were the echo chambers--echoing bile, vitriol and moaning in how they spent their time connected with a hobby...which, remember, by definition is supposed to be enjoyable. If one thinks a positive forum is an echo chamber then fine, I'd rather see people being supportive, helpful, and also enjoying the forum interaction and experience.

 

Thats just me ??. Thanks all and looking forward to coming back to TGA again.?

[VBS]

It's kind of amusing when you see it from outside.

This guy sets up a free forum so people post about a game of toy soldiers they all enjoy with the only condition to be positive/constructive (ie. no one cares if you are not happy with what your toys do in a imaginary world. Not the place for that). A few month of lack of updates (false, as there were quite a few) because of whatever (ie. 40k?) cloud certain boards as the regular human can no longer throw cash at his plastic-crack-addiction or discuss about the latest irrelevant-tactic-ad-nauseam post. It is a state of great distress and dispair. Generating over 6 pages of replies in less than 24 hours because individual internet opinions are super important for the existence of a plastic toy forum. But fear not, the Nottingham Overlords have hear the call (afterall, their business is based on what is whinned upon here, right?) and reveal what is to come and the exciting positivity is back in the air! Everything turns back to normal, and TGA finds peace once more.

What a great story.

[TheOtherJosh]

No, you're right, the GW Fell Bats are terrible, as is the Black Coach. Does anyone know of any cool alternatives?

 

Started a new thread for Fell Bat Alternatives:

 

https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink?share_fid=1442257&share_tid=11035&share_pid=119775&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Etga%2Ecommunity%2Findex%2Ephp%3F%2Ftopic%2F11035-Fell-Bat-Alternatives-%2Fpage__view__findpost__p__119775&share_type=t

 

[Naflem]

5 hours ago, Gaz Taylor said:

I must admit, I'm really confused that some people are struggling with this, so I'm going to put some points up to see if this helps. 

We want this forum to be a Positive Experience

As the point states, we want this forum to be a positive place and a nice experience for people. Easy way to picture this - Imagine going into a gaming shop and seeing lots of cool stuff going on. Now imagine some people near you moaning about something but not being constructive but actually having a moan about it. Now imagine that as you wander around the shop, the groups of people moaning seem to increase and get more annoying. Got that imagine in your head? That's not what we want here. We want you to be happy and excited and not being sad.

If you disagree with something/somebody, be constructive

Through life, we will all find stuff we aren't keen on and will dislike or disagree with. The good way to express this is in a constructive way by explaining why you don't like it and then not repeatedly going on about it. Again we want this place to be a positive experience and most people react better to somebody using reason and intelligence to express why they dislike something rather than moaning about it.

Use Common Sense

What it says on the tin, please use common sense when replying to any topics

Unsure about something, ask a mod

If you really are unsure, just ask one of the moderators but make sure you have tried the points above

 

Cheers

I think at least for purposes of this thread @Ben solicited these replies

"If I'm off the mark with this please feel free to tell me why.

Again, healthy debate is encouraged."

[firebat]

3 hours ago, Jamie the Jasper said:

 

But 'I don't like this mini' is functionally identical to Auticus saying 'I hope Nurgle is better than Kharadron Overlords', which some members in this thread have clearly expressed is an undesirable comment for them and something that they perceive to fall foul of the new 'guidelines' - and neither Gaz nor Ben have stepped in to say 'Actually no, this comment may be negative but it's essentially harmless and still perfectly acceptable'. So we're left to assume that this kind of thing actually does fall foul of the new regime.

Read Ben's original post again. He doesn't ask for 'a bit more positivity', he says 'moaning and complaining will not be tolerated here any more'. Will not be tolerated. That's strong language. Until someone steps in to clarify, that can very easily be interpreted as a zero-tolerance policy on any comment that isn't emphatically positive. And indeed, some members are already interpreting it in precisely that way. Ben is free to set whatever parameters he likes for his forum, but under the circumstances I don't think it's unreasonable to ask for more clarity about what exactly 'will not be tolerated'.

EDIT: I'm just going to come right out and ask @Gaz Taylor and @Ben: Is 'Hopefully they are viable and not like a wet sock like the Overlords were' the kind of complaining that members should be reporting to you as per the original post?

Personally I think every gaming forum of every kind can be improved by simply banning the term 'viable'. It's always used incorrectly and saying you don't like a certain mini is not the same as stating something isn't viable. Something not being viable means it's effectively useless and I don't think i've played a game of any type where the word has been thrown around where it's actually been the case whether it's one army or unit in warhammer or classes in computer games.  It might be harder to make what you want work, you might need to be a better player but that doesn't make it impossible. It's a term which I feel contributes to waac narrowing down of any game to the point where only the most overpowered is deemed worth looking at even if the actual difference can be pretty minor in the grand scheme of effects on any game.

[Gaz Taylor]

1 hour ago, Naflem said:

I think at least for purposes of this thread @Ben solicited these replies

"If I'm off the mark with this please feel free to tell me why.

Again, healthy debate is encouraged."

LOL you could say he asked for it but he probably never imagined that people would try and rules lawyer how to behave on the forum!

[AGPO]

I think those that need rules could take some pretty clear guidelines from Gaz's responses. As a former mod from a WFB forum that confronted a similar issue I'd also suggest the following:

Do:

• Develop your points. Rather than just saying "Overlords suck" expand on what doesn't work and why using examples and comparisons
• Experiment with solutions by houseruling when you play with friends, then feed this back on the forum.
• Give others (including GW) the benefit of the doubt and just agree to differ if a thread is getting too heated.

Don't:

• State your opinion as fact.
• Derail threads on other topics with discussions of your pet peeve.
• Be unnecessarily confrontational when expressing your opinion.
• Get repetitive.
• Post predominantly or exclusively negative posts and comments.

To use an analogy, I'm also really interested in politics, where discussions can get pretty damn contentious. If I want to discuss and debate politics I've got plenty of places on the internet and politically minded friends to do just that with. I like to think I'm a grown up who can have these conversations without getting confrontational and I've got friends across the political spectrum to prove it can be done. However, when I'm out with non-politico friends at the pub or with family I don't bring every discussion round to Brexit or Trump because a) these topics are divisive as hell; b) many people are sick of hearing about it and c) it's too heavy for when people are trying to kick back and relax. Treat TGA as a pub with a mixed group of friends who don't all share your strongly held beliefs and you won't go far wrong.

[Tzaangor Management]

2 hours ago, TheOtherJosh said:

 

Started a new thread for Fell Bat Alternatives:

 

https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink?share_fid=1442257&share_tid=11035&share_pid=119775&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Etga%2Ecommunity%2Findex%2Ephp%3F%2Ftopic%2F11035-Fell-Bat-Alternatives-%2Fpage__view__findpost__p__119775&share_type=t

 

Thank @TheOtherJoshI will admit that I made my original comment to prove a point and didn't expect a response, nor for it to be proved quite so eloquently. These are awesome and GW approved, which is something that I could not find by myself. I will labour this point no further and will away to the Fell Bat Mobile! 

EDIT

Which is actually here:

 

[Veterannoob]

34 minutes ago, AGPO said:

I think those that need rules could take some pretty clear guidelines from Gaz's responses. As a former mod from a WFB forum that confronted a similar issue I'd also suggest the following:

Do:

• Develop your points. Rather than just saying "Overlords suck" expand on what doesn't work and why using examples and comparisons
• Experiment with solutions by houseruling when you play with friends, then feed this back on the forum.
• Give others (including GW) the benefit of the doubt and just agree to differ if a thread is getting too heated.

Don't:

• State your opinion as fact.
• Derail threads on other topics with discussions of your pet peeve.
• Be unnecessarily confrontational when expressing your opinion.
• Get repetitive.
• Post predominantly or exclusively negative posts and comments.

To use an analogy, I'm also really interested in politics, where discussions can get pretty damn contentious. If I want to discuss and debate politics I've got plenty of places on the internet and politically minded friends to do just that with. I like to think I'm a grown up who can have these conversations without getting confrontational and I've got friends across the political spectrum to prove it can be done. However, when I'm out with non-politico friends at the pub or with family I don't bring every discussion round to Brexit or Trump because a) these topics are divisive as hell; b) many people are sick of hearing about it and c) it's too heavy for when people are trying to kick back and relax. Treat TGA as a pub with a mixed group of friends who don't all share your strongly held beliefs and you won't go far wrong.

Well said ?

[MacDuff]

Please see 'Don't' bullet #4. ;o)

[Arkiham]

49 minutes ago, AGPO said:

I think those that need rules could take some pretty clear guidelines from Gaz's responses. As a former mod from a WFB forum that confronted a similar issue I'd also suggest the following:

Do:

• Develop your points. Rather than just saying "Overlords suck" expand on what doesn't work and why using examples and comparisons
• Experiment with solutions by houseruling when you play with friends, then feed this back on the forum.
• Give others (including GW) the benefit of the doubt and just agree to differ if a thread is getting too heated.

Don't:

• State your opinion as fact.
• Derail threads on other topics with discussions of your pet peeve.
• Be unnecessarily confrontational when expressing your opinion.
• Get repetitive.
• Post predominantly or exclusively negative posts and comments.

To use an analogy, I'm also really interested in politics, where discussions can get pretty damn contentious. If I want to discuss and debate politics I've got plenty of places on the internet and politically minded friends to do just that with. I like to think I'm a grown up who can have these conversations without getting confrontational and I've got friends across the political spectrum to prove it can be done. However, when I'm out with non-politico friends at the pub or with family I don't bring every discussion round to Brexit or Trump because a) these topics are divisive as hell; b) many people are sick of hearing about it and c) it's too heavy for when people are trying to kick back and relax. Treat TGA as a pub with a mixed group of friends who don't all share your strongly held beliefs and you won't go far wrong.

i think this is hitting the nail firmly on the head, 

 

We all have a inkling or firm idea on what the OP is relating to, and some people may even have a feeling of which people it was directed towards;  and we should all look to move on from this in a positive manner. 

i mean this not in a sarcastic sense, we know what ben means, but some people are taking it in a too wider meaning on purpose." all complaining is banned, everyone must be happy & positive all the time!" no... you know thats not what he means. 

 

a few people have explained the intent behind the original post, as to be honest it is clear. 

i also think that everything that needed to be said on the subject has been; any further posts are somewhat unnecessary... both sides have discussed, made valid points, and left enough for people to make their own impressions on it. 

i don't wish to have the last word and it would be nice if @Ben...or another mod could write a final post to clear the air, and lock the thread, and maybe pin it as a reminder for a short while? just an idea, i dunno im not in charge just how i feel..

[Mayple]

This is also not to get the last word, but I ran out of likes for the day, so

I very much agree with @Arkiham on this one. All the points I can imagine that can be made have, at this point, been presented in one form o r another. To continue beyond this point will inevitably throw us into a loop - so it would probably be wise to close it soon, but keep it visible, as was suggested. I believe the discussion might have reached it's peak but it has been an interesting one. Hence how I ran out of likes. 

 

[Will Myers]

I'm only here cause I have a boy crush on Ben. My wife more of a Wayne Kemp kind of gal, but we don't talk about it. Anyway what's this whole Warhammer thing about?

Thanks for all the work you do Ben. May Mr. Johnson always fear the name CURRY on the table!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Chikout]

That post by AGPO pretty much sums it up. Very well explained.

[Kyriakin]

Getting banned from Warseer is a hobby rite-of-passage.

It's up there with slicing your hand open with a craft knife for the first time, or buying your first cheap Chinese airbrush on eBay.

[Nico]

Here's some positivity:

Actually a huge change to shooting. Thunderers have been hit with a big nerf - no 5 Cannons or 5 Thunderers - a great change in my view. This makes Khemist Spam far less efficient (as a 50% buff to pure rifles, not a 100% buff to pure Cannons). Also deletes Mortar spam! A great change. 

It's a more elegant solution than nerfing stacking across board (which would kill things like Phoenixes).

Fyreslayers get a Mega Battalion.

Brayherd buffs look good. I really hope that the anti-cover debuff aura counters Staunch Defender too! Gors look appropriately cheap too.

[BeardedBaller]

For what its worth ill add my 2c as a new player who has been in the hobby for around 5 months. Ill start out by saying there is certainly a difference between the tga we have now and the one i was introduced to. When I first visited these forums i saw a community of hobbyists; those on the tournament circuit discussing strategies and how to break the meta, painters showing off their latest projects, clubs and TOs launching new events, and some who simply revelled in their enjoyment of this awesome game. It seemed like a place where people knew and respected each other and it was something that i very much wanted to be a part of.

Five months down the line and this is probably the first post that I have made in over two months. Im not going to say that tga is now wholly toxic, there are still some great posts and discussions, but i do think the general tone of these forums has devolved. Posters aren't talking to each other like humans and members of their community, they're talking to each other like anons on the internet and i think thats a real shame. If i was to introduce a friend to this hobby im not sure id send them this way.

In regards to the incessant complaining I would agree that it is problematic. There's nothing wrong in pointing out your faction's weakness or hopes for changes in the future but i think many here need to consider their sense of entitlement and take a little step back. GW do not owe you anything. They are a miniatures company that make incredible figures in an awesome setting. They are not trying to usurp 'Go' for the worlds most balanced game. I think im really privileged to even be able to play this game so when i come on here and see people constantly complaining about this and that it puts me off. I think they are missing the point a bit. I consider browsing these forums as part of my limited hobby time, i dont want my hobby time to be spent reading other people's negative comments and remarks.

I think Ben's post was warranted but all is not lost.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Nico]

This is so awesome: one Rogue Idol isn't enough - so you can buy a pair!

 

https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-AU/Effigies-of-Gorkamorka-2017