Shearl

I think we should try and keep in mind that the main thrust of this thread is that the army is lacking in design space and composition, and not about price. There's another thread discussing pricing ad nauseum, we probably shouldn't replicate that in here. In regards to the topic, I think this army still has plenty of room to grow. They can come out with new smaller giants, maybe some with ranged weapons. Easily come come out with a new mega box with a couple new builds. Maybe a hero box that can make a chief, Brodd, or a shaman. Realistically this is not an army for everyone but I don't think it was meant to be. It also begs the question of is there anything wrong with that?

I think a big one for me is the ability to manage hype. The constant release schedule and articles can do a pretty good job of making you want to spend more money. Unless its something that you've been waiting to come out for an existing army, try and wait a week or two after its released and see if you still need it. There's been plenty of times I've been really tempted to get a new release, but after waiting a while often the necessity goes away and I more rationally consider of I actually need a new Necromunda gang or whatever. Also I've had some pretty good luck with finding deals on Facebook sales pages and Ebay.

Yeah plus the fact one side of the board is for catacombs and the other is for traditional Warcry implies its for a new customer so they can play both ways. On one hand I'm happy they keep releasing new content for the game, but I'd rather not have to rebuy things. Plus there's the fear that it will actually be more expensive to buy just the new things when they're released on their own, than just getting this set. Eh maybe if I do get it I'll give the core book to someone who might want to try the game.

I play more Warcry than anything else these days and have been eagerly awaiting this box. I'm kind of bummed out about the price, but what really rubs me the wrong way is that a number of the terrain pieces are the same as the previous box and it comes with the same core book. I know its labeled as the new starter so it makes sense to include the core book, but as I already own all the books getting another of the same thing is kind of annoying. I realize a solution is to simply wait for everything separately, but I can't help but imagine buying everything except the duplicated terrain and book will cost more than this box. Honestly for the price I'd be a lot happier if all the terrain was entirely bespoke, and maybe it came with an abridged core rules, kind of like the thin paper backs that used to come in starter sets a few editions ago.

I don't wish to put words in @Sleboda's mouth, but what I believe he's saying is that "playtesting" is a stage of development carried out by "playtesters" chosen by the company before a product is released. Playtesting is done to see if the game runs as intended or if things need tweaking before its released. Once you own the released product, you play using the rules and test things but wouldn't generally call that "playtesting". It might seem like semantics, but in this context playing a game to test things is slightly different from something being "playtested".

The articles are 100% about promoting their products, but I think that's somewhat to be expected. Are some more blatant in trying to sell products? Of course, but there's also articles showing conversions and other more hobby focused topics. I think part of the trouble stems from the fact it can be difficult to determine when big companies are being sincere. Its a balancing act in that a company might be trying to foster goodwill to promote their business, but at the same time would you rather support a business that doesn't foster goodwill? And I don't mean to sound dismissive, but the easiest option is to simply not read Warhammer Community articles. If the articles are annoying or rub you the wrong way, don't seek them out. You can find vibrant communities on facebook, youtube, reddit, instagram, or this site which are more representative of the "warhammer community".

I’d like to start off by saying that I agree that the mega gargant kit is pretty expensive and that if it was at a lower price point I’d be more likely to get one now. I think personally it fits into the category of things to possibly get after I’ve gotten everything else I’d want for an existing army and down the road might wish to toss this into the mix. If I know it might be a few years before an army gets a new release, adding one of these big boys starts to look more attractive. I think in terms of deciding if a miniature is worth the price there’s both an objective and subjective element to the decision. On one hand you can objectively quantify the price verses the amount of plastic in the box or the number of points in game, and compare them to another miniature. Here you can say the mega gargant is a worse deal than a larger cheaper kit, or something more cost to point efficient. On the other hand the notion of whether you’ve “wasted your money” is ultimately subjective. If I have the money and I’m happy with my purchase, then I haven’t wasted anything. While it might not be the best deal available, or I could have gotten a cheaper equivalent 3rd party giant, if I’m content with it than that’s fine. Frankly one could decide that the cheaper 3rd party giant is a waste of their money if they don’t actually want it and are just getting it for the savings. Just like buying designer name clothes or an expensive meal as opposed to a more cost effective option, if I’m happy with it, then for me its money well spent, just as the same purchase may very feel like a waste for someone else. But I might be biased as I personally own quite a bit of Forgeworld miniatures which have rather poor money to game effectiveness ratio, but because I like them I’m happy with it. Different strokes for different folks. Also I doubt GW is going to get burned too much by their pricing on this release. I’m sure they recognize it’s a high cost and don’t expect it to sell as widely as some other releases, at least as a whole army. Armies like Sons of Behemat and 40K knights are definably not the most popular armies used, but they will sell and the ability to take one with other armies is also a selling point. Obviously I have no idea what actually goes on at GW HQ but I imagine they assume that not all armies, whether because of theme or pricing will be as popular as others. TLDR: Yeah they’re expensive and I probably won’t get one barring a gift or I run out of other things to get for existing armies. Also while there are more cost efficient options, if you want one and are happy with spending that much, then for you it was a good purchase. And if the price out strips its worth to you, then you shouldn’t get it and would be better spent on something else. And Finally I’d be surprised if the price of the mega gargants negatively impacts GW in a meaningful way. Sorry for the rambling thoughts.

I've noticed there's definitely less bits on ebay for AoS than for 40k. I wonder if this largely boils down to the fact that units in 40k tends to have more options than AoS. Where an AoS unit might have the option of giving a unit all one weapon or all with another, often in 40k you have the option of equipping a unit with a wide array of special and heavy weapons, some of which don't even come in that box. The ability to tailor squads in 40k results in a larger bits market than AoS seems to need. I also wonder if the doing away with of modeless options has also hurt the bits market. Gone are the days of the ability to stick most heroes on a variety of mounts or chariots with a vast array of weapons that were never made. The current formula of no model = no rules may have resulted in a lower demand for bits for conversions. While there is still plenty of conversions happening it is often a creative endeavor and not stemming from the need to represent a hero which isn't actually sold.

I think it's also important to note that we don't know what the rules for the Warstomper or Gatebreaker even are yet.

I know there's been a lot of talk about magic getting re-rolls or not. What if something was implicated where the wizard could attempt to recast a failed spell, but at the cost of d3 mortal wounds? The idea being that it is physically taxing for the caster to try and re-harnesss magic after failing. That way you get some more magic re-rollability, but its a trade in that he might die sooner rather than simply using a command point.

While the Lumineth line doesn't have a lot of variation within units I think its definitely a conscience design angle for the range. Their forces are supposed to be comprised of highly trained, orderly soldiers who fight in formations. They represent a more professional army, all the pikemen are basically posed the same because their all in the same phalanx. Their lack of individuality is what separates them from other armies, where a unit of stormcast might represent a group of warriors fighting in tandem with each other or ogors as a group of individuals, each Lumineth soldier is simply a cog in a well oiled machine. That being said, it's definitely not going to appeal to everyone.

I think it mostly comes down to one of two things. 1. I think overly negative members of this hobby are something of a vocal minority. Most of the people I play with are pretty positive and are looking to have fun. The internet allows unhappy people to complain to a wide audience. 2. Like most hobbies, many involved in GW products (or any wargaming for that matter) form a deep emotional attachment to their armies. The planning, building, hours of painting and playing cause people to become quite fond and protective of their armies. When their army falls behind the curve competitively it is easy to become disheartened watching this army you labored over becoming less effective on the table. It’s not simply a matter of beastmen (just a random example) becoming less effective, but instead MY beastmen are losing. And new armies which seem stronger or bring new tools to the table might seem like another even larger hurdle for your army. Now my Doombull, Gnashhorn Examplesmasher is getting punked by new Aelves or Skelemen. The solution to both points I think is to find a good group of people to play with, and not take the competitive side super seriously. While there’s nothing wrong with competitive play, the shifting balance of power is an ever present factor, and with it, a greater opportunity for salt.

Surely this gutplate is befitting of only a Overtyrant. I think the big boys (sorry Brodd not as big as your boys) could use another leader.

I agree that I think Stormcast will likely be in the next starter set, although Devoted of Sigmar would be great. But as far as 40k, at least in regards to starter sets, there has been more Xenos than Chaos. Marines remain a constant but throughout the editions only two sets have had Chaos.

I've said it before, but I can't see them slipping the Sons in unexpectedly. They're a new army and will spend time hyping them up, and I doubt they'd want to sneak them in amidst the 40k hype. I know the delays have been unfortunate, but I think its important to look at the big picture of releases. A ton of new stuff for 40k players The rest of the Lumineth Brand new AoS army I think most specialist games, and Warcry have releases in the wings There's a lot of cool stuff coming.

I've been wrong before, but I have a hard time imagining them trying to sneak in this release. Even through it looks to be a relatively small number of products, I can't see them dropping them unexpectedly one week before new 40k. Its a new army and I imagine they'll want to hype up the release a good deal. Sadly I think the big boys will be coming out a bit after 9th edition.

I think this is important to keep in mind, so far they haven't shown off any of the common rabble yet. The Ice Guard are definitely elite and I imagine the bear riders will be too. Elite choices have typically received a much higher degree of magic/special things in the past. It's still a bit too early be be claiming that The Old World will be a break from old fantasy, as they simply haven't shown off enough yet for us to make such a claim. If the next reveal is of Kislev peasant mobs and they're all carrying ice pitchforks than maybe we can talk, but until then we don't know enough to know. I realize it's part of the fun of this hobby, but it might be wise to avoid jumping to conclusions until were even know the game's scale for sure.

To echo what some other posters have said you could always go with one of two routes: · Pick one force which is large enough that you have the ability to throw together a more narrative fluffy list, or a more competitive list. · Build two armies, one with a narrative theme in mind and the other competitive or at least semi-competitive. For example I have a 2k list of Fimir and now oop Forgeworld monsters that I play occasionally because I love the sculpts and have created my own lore for them, but I fully realize that they’ll most likely get stomped and sent back to their marsh with their tails between their legs. When I feel like playing a list that has a better chance of winning I’ll bring my Ogors to the shop instead. Another important thing to consider is the community you play in. If they mostly play more competitively minded, then you might want to either build a somewhat capable force, or be at peace with the idea your lovingly crafted army might struggle to win. On the other hand if your community is more laid back and open to fun lists or trying new things out, a narrative list might fit nicely. Also if you’re craving a more narrative experience, it might behoove you to take the lead, talk to others about running a fluffy campaign.

I've been having a lot of fun with my ogors so far. I tried to split to find a nice balance between ogors and gnoblars: 1x Irongut leader 1x Glutton with dual weapons 1x Leadbelcher 5x Gnoblars This way I have a really heavy hitter, a strong ogor with high-ish attacks, a rangeed option, and enough bodies for objectives or to tie down enemy fighters. Plus it was a great opportunity to finally paint up my oop gnoblar trappers.

BoC do have both varieties of ungors, they just aren't on the large card for some reason, maybe simply because they couldn't fit them? In fact there are 5 varieties of ungors in the warband: raider leader, raider, normal ungor leader, ungor with spear, and ungor with hand weapon.

There is a difference between them and potential Serephon cuts though, both came from box sets that are no longer sold and were not available separately. I think unless one is replaced in the form of double army box, the existing serephon units are safe. Several of the last few books have retained units in finecast (skaven, Ogors, StD, Tzeentch). But of course I don't know anything.

If a brand new player starts the game with no experience in AoS or Whfb, and chooses an army they ascetically prefer why should they be punished with intentionally sub-par rules simply because they chose an army that existed pre-Aos? If I purchase miniatures in a box that says "Age of Sigmar" on it, and play with those miniatures using an army book that says "Age of Sigmar" which said rules were designed specifically for AoS, how is this not an AoS army? People have different tastes, why should they be punished because they like one army over an other?

I feel like the reasonable conclusion should be "I wish my army's rules were better" rather than "I wish other armies were worse". This thread smacks of sour grapes to me. Plus, deep down we all know the army that deserves the best rules are a certain race to marsh dwelling cyclopes. Heck they don't even sell our models anymore, the least they could do is give us good rules!

I'd love the addition of an insect army, yet I really hope they wouldn't just be AoS Tyranids. I'd like for them to have a real culture rather than a hive-mind.

I think the lack of firearms in AoS stems from a few reasons. 1. The existence of magic and other fantasy elements provides something of a work around for many of the factions. On one hand do you need firearms if you have an army of huge monsters and dudes throwing magic fire around, and on the other if your army is lacking these a gun might be nice to have. The old Empire, and some of the CoS Freeguild units aren’t as high fantasy as other armies and relied more heavily on black power and machinery to make up for the fact they’re primarily average humans. A Stormcast is so far from being an average human, firearms aren’t really necessary and their lighting weapons and many fantastical mounts make up for the lack there of. 2. The other, and in my opinion main reasons there aren’t more firearms in AoS is simply for the sake of diversity between the ranges. Historically varied cultures with varied ways of war sought to adopt the use of firearms rapidly, replacing many of their traditional weapons. Even societies which the Western world saw as being "backwaters"which lacked the ability to produce powder or arms themselves, traded or aquried these weapons. In setting it would make sense to see some greenskins using black power, Ogors do. Not all chaos worshipers are raving lunatics, some professional musketeers would make sense. Yet I don’t think people would want every army to have guns, it takes away from some of the uniqueness of factions. People want Aelves shooting bows, and other familiar fantasy staples. But who knows maybe the next supplement will be AoS “Pike and Shotte”