Jamopower

Does the Hold the line prevent the units from piling in? I somehow remember that it used to be so that "pile in move" and "move" were different things, but apparently it's not like that any more as the rules specify "move" to be any kind of move and "normal move" to be the one you do on your movement phase. Don't get me wrong, it's much clearer this way, but it does make the command ability a bit worse.

I got my first game in with Living city in AoS2. The multiple combat abilities worked just as I thought. I had pretty mishmash army as I haven't got time to paint more freeguild due other games, but it still worked fine: Freeguild general on griffon Freeguild general on horse, general with Inspiring Warden king Runelord 30 Dwarf warriors with 2h axes and shields 30 Halberdiers 10 Archers 3 Kurnoth hunters with scythes in ambush 5 tree revenants and extra command point to round it to 1500 I played against Tzeentch a scenario from the Tzeentch book, where the Tzeentch player has a table to roll objectives while the enemy tries just to kill everything. He had equally soft list with Ogroid thaumaturg, a Daemon prince, a Chaos sorcerer, Herald on disc, 3x5 chaos warriors, 3x3 flamers and 3 screamers. Got my griffon and dwarfs in on turn two and they pinned the army on place until the Kurnoths came to help. The runelord kept the magic at bay and without bonuses to casting it was pretty ineffectual in any case. It was very nice to be able to use the griffon lord's ability and hold to line, whichever was more needed and on critical turns both of them. The warden king also used his ability once, but it didn't matter much. The warriors with the runelord giving rend -2 were a great unit, while my halberdiers were all shot by the flamers

I'm just happy that it's quite unlikely I'll ever see Kroak on a table. I played today against a Tzeentch army with three units of flamers, ehich is quite a good example of the general power level at our tables

I would say that even 20 mw reliably from a single unit on a single phase is too much, as one wound is on average about 20 points.

106 mortals is actually the average if you get to roll three times d6 wounds against ten units. Not that likely, but not that unlikely either. The biggest problem is that the targets are destroyed before the full salvo. I would believe that getting more than 50 MW against chaos should be very common with the range buffs.

Don't know if the army is completely broken, but getting a lot of good stuff on top of an already very good army for free will surely matter. I think it's quite good indication that something is wrong when there is a tweet from a Seraphon player after the first major tournament wishing for a nerf for his own army...

I can imagine that the fun starts to disappear for the Kroak user as well after a while. Especially so if the available opponents start to disappear It's amazing how they have not done anything for the points of Seraphon in the new book when everyone sees straight away that they became much better. Maybe they didn't focus for the old factions too much.

I'm 100% sure the Seraphon won't make it 'til next GHB without some errata to tone them down. Good example of their current brokoness is the six nations tournament, where Kroak had done 106 mortal wounds in a single hero phase. Doesn't sound fun for anyone.

I guess it will change with the new Edition...

At least in the 6 Nations lists there were a lot of Engines (and ripperdactyls) and almost all teams had Seraphons. So I guess that's somewhat telling of the initial perceived power of the army and its units. 220 points sure is a bargain for the Engine. At least one of them should be found in every Lizzie-list. I have been looking at something along the lines of this for my autumn painting project. I have all of the models needed (all saurus are old metal) and a lot of painted skinks with squares waiting for motivation to do something for them: Slann Scar Veteran on Carnosaur Engine of Gods 40 Saurus with spears 2x5 or 1x10 Saurus guard 10 Skinks 3 Kroxigor Total: 1500 points Should be fun to play and able to handle everything, but at the same time won't be too powerful to keep the game fun for both players. The idea is to summon the skinks, salamanders and such and have the heavier stuff on the table from the beginning. Previously I have wanted to have bit more punch when I have been playing with seraphon and the saurus should give plenty of that.

I'm inclined to modify my Living city / Mixed order force in such way with the new command abilities, that I have subgroups for which I can use the command abilities on. Feels thematically cool and should be good enough on the battlefield as well. So I could have warden king leading the Duardin contingent, Freeguild general (on Griffon) for the Human part and then a Wanderer or Sylvaneth Contingent. Though the Sylvaneth abilities are maybe not so useful. Also the treelord ancient summoning forests, that are now free combined to Branchwraith summoning dryads there sounds like it has some amount of synergy with the outflanking. It could look something like this: Freeguild General On Griffon (260) - Lance Treelord Ancient (300) Branchwraith (80) Runelord (100) Warden King (120) UNITS 40 x Freeguild Guard (280) -Halberds and Shields 3 x Kurnoth Hunters (200) -Scythes 30 x Warriors (240) -Double-handed Duardin Axes & Shields - Runic Icon 10 x Liberators (200) -Warblades (the flanking unit) 5 x Judicators (160) -Skybolt Bows TOTAL: 1940/2000 Feels nice and balanced. not too tough, but should be good enough to have a proper fight against most of the stuff. Maybe bit of additional shooting wouldn't be bad, but I don't have Kurnoths with bows. In 1500, which i mostly play, I could drop the Warden king and the kurnoths and downgrade the general to horse mounted version.

It's the same for generic death and the new nighthaunt. Probably will change for the LoN as well at some point.

Well there is little logic to many of the costs as the costs are mostly based on what the units used to do in the AoS1 during the last "season". It's exactly the same thing as with e.g. the Engine of the gods. Points remained the same, but it sprouts a new unit of ~120-150 points every second turn on average. Rippers don't actually change so much as they dish out amazing amount of damage even without the infinite attacks when you hit stuff during your turn close to the bloat toad. Apart from that, they die very easily and the single beak attack doesn't cause that much damage even with "inifinite" multiplying attacks. Without the shadowstrike warhost it can be hard to get them to the desired target intact so that the bloat toad is also there so the points are not necessarily so far off. The faq answer for the spells is because there was uncertainity if spells are classed as abilities. In my eyes it's clear that rippers do extra attacks as it is written in the warscroll, but the clarification that the new attacks don't generate new attacks is for units such as Daemonettes where is only written that on a hit roll of 6+ they generate a new attack and no mention about what happens the attacks generated by this way. That said, it's very possible that they'll do an errata for the warscroll at some point. Fun thing by the way in the errata and faq.In the faq it was said that the newest version of the warscroll is always used, but in errata for the grand alliance books, there is said that the scrolls for Seraphon etc. are superceded by the ones on battletomes. Now I'm sure that there are no differences between those, but the Grand alliance books are newer than the first battletomes

Just use the command ability several times. (What comes to amount of attacks, no one beats 40 skeletons with few uses of +1 attack command abilities topped with Vanhel's...)

No he's still shrouded in mystery.

Nevermind

Sounds great, but just as long as they do this after they fleshen out the Slaanesh mortals selection... Blood warriors and blightkings are after all more or less marked chaos warriors, so it would make sense that the general stuff would be the undivided masses. They should hire the guy who made the models for the Adrian Smith Studio McVey game Hate though...

It's not a good business plan to have everything fixed. It would mean that they couldn't release anything new content after that. Even new battletomes will shift the whole game balance concerning competitive gaming, as the list building is dependent on what you can face, and thus the good units will change according to that.

It was said in the article that the spells are available for the games happening on the realm: So similar to what we have now, but expanded.

Hoping that we'll get some gluttony inspired Slaanesh models in the next release, although don't think it's likely.

If you think about medieval combat, the clash would rarely be an affair where another force is standing on the open and the other force runs over them. Most of the time both parties would charge against each other, or the unit charged would be in a defensive position, both of which are not represented by any specific rules in AoS, but are common in many other "more serious" wargames, but is covered by the alternating activation. Though it is just a simplification for gaming purposes, it makes the game more interesting as there is more things to consider while you are charging, i.e. on the battlefield whereas protecting your weaker stuff with screens is something that is done during deployment and in the list building phase. A simplification is to say that list building and deployment are strategy, while the stuff that is done midway during the game to counter opponents moves and surprises would be tactics.

Of course the natural counter is to protect all the important parts of your army with layers of chaff screens. Possibly leading to micromanagement of the formation of your army. The chargers go first would in my head lead to a game similar to old fantasy battle, where the first few turns both players would try to remove each others chaff units while keeping the heavy hitters back and whomever gets the big charge in wins. That was of course in a game where there was charge diverting and the armies were in overall bit slower. Without diverting, the charging is a lot more safe, especially with monsters such as the Zombie dragons. The game dynamic with chargers going first is so different, that the exact effect is hard to even figure out. In 40k the whole dynamic is very different as most of the close combat units are so bad in dealing damage and the whole retreating mechanism is so much more useful due to the amount of firepower (especially from close range due to rapid fire etc.) each army has available.

Or strategic, sounds for me that the strategy points cane be used for it and perhaps the draws go to the player who won the previous initiative. The tidbits they have released for now sounds reasonable, but the combat will be the main point for me. Hopefully they don't change it.

I suppose that has more to do with the Stardrkae he is currently facing in Scgt, than the new edition...

Guys, it might be that the competetive AoS is pointless, but if it's the thing that the local scene is interested, then Karol's outlook is reasonable. You probably don't want to get beastclaw raiders as your army if everyone is playing the most efficient forces. They just don't cut it. No matter how fun they are to play, if you lose 2/3 of the games just because of the list, it isn't fun in the long run and you might feel bad that you have put your hard earned money into them, especially if the local wages are such that the models effectively cost double. As said, there are many ways of playing. I'm all for casual gaming, but I can understand that kind of view very well.