Saxon

This says more about the horrendous state that LoN are in more than Nagash himself. LoN are a long way behind in the meta these days with other armies able to do almost everything better. I remember the days of 40 skellies wrecking anything they got close to....

Models without a decent game are just overpriced plastic. GW has been around for a long time, long enough to have a fair idea of what works and what doesn't with regards to rules. No one expects perfect balance but they've got to be very careful not to Petrifix Elite every new release. 2 gaming centres I'm aware of already have people who just refuse to play against those certain lists. 3 KoS lists too. Changehost will be next. GW needs to be careful with its power creep hence the expectation of 'some' level of balance. I dont think its reasonable to expect every game to be a tight game in a constantly evolving game but people giving up on playing certain buildsis concerning and not something I've ever seen before.

Its personal taste but i like to have a quick reference I.e. a battletome and not loose pieces of paper with updates everywhere. It gets out of hand and you forget stuff. I also think it hinders the game if players arent up to date with faq/errata. Not everyone has time to keep up to date. I love the warscroll cards GW makes as you can line them up in front of you for quick reference. It annoys me when 2months after i buy them abilities change. GW needs to play test their rules better to stop all these cards/tomes being redundant.

The problem is that no matter what it shouldn't be doing 50......

I am yet to see the downside of the swing yet, 2 games, lots of MWs conceded! That skull alter gives the judgements a nice boost in being able to reroll failed 'casts. Another great unit is flesh hounds. 3+ to hit on 4 attacks at 100 points is great value. They're like direwolves with an offensive capability. I enjoy playing against the variety khorne offers. I'd imagine they'd be frustrating to play with given the reliance on synergy.

Nighthaunt. Good game but those judgements were so powerful. My opponent rolled well to get them and keep them. Managed to kill my Reiknor the Grimhailer in 1 turn!

Isnt that a criticism of the rules though? People giving up on certain lists because they're just not fun to play against. People ignoring valid criticisms and deflecting from it is not helpful. It won't help sell models but these powerful releases (Slaanesh, OBR and Tzeentch) hurt the game long run and i think its reasonable to expect more balance given the cost of the models. I can only recommend significantly more play testing to iron out some of these issues before they get printed in a book.

In my gaming group we often roll for the first turn anyway. It makes it harder for the players in the group setting up alpha strike lists because first turn isnt always guaranteed.

Played against Khorne today for the first time in a while and that Wrath Axe is amazing. Opponent camped a slaughter priest next to the Skull Alter for rerolls on the judgements very effectively. The D3 + the D6 can be a reliable mortal wound output if you dont roll potato and can keep it on the board. Excellent for 60 points.

I've seen nothing but the opposite of this statement!!!! From what i have seen people are getting very tired of specific PE lists and want them to get a points increase so that they see something different.

Because that's all a 380pt model is good for........................

I think a lot of opinions are formed by the people you play against in local groups. In trying to assess my own bias i feel like i have a generally negative view of new GW releases on the basis that a couple of people i regularly play against always go for the new shiny armies and the meta-list of those armies where as i prefer to run fun lists resulting in often lop-sided games. This has shaped my personal opinion of releases always pushing the meta upwards to sell models. Is it a solid strategy to sell models? Absolutely. A lot of people always want the best which is fine but its not for everyone. It's just my opinion which may not be accurate but my concern with bringing out these shiny new armies with all these powers has a few major sticking points: 1) New armies seem to be grossly overpowered until they get a FAQ nerf (Slaanesh). 2) Limited play testing from GW is not an excuse for bad rules either under/over powered. We pay a fortune for our plastic crack and have a reasonable right in my opinion to expect that these armies interact together somewhat well. It's never going to be completely balanced but some degree of balance is surely reasonable to expect? 3) The distance between the top tier lists and the older lists grows consistently with each new release which ads to people with older armies feeling stranded/frustrated (look at how bad GLoN armies are now). In this regard, personally when i have felt this way i have shelved or moved on armies instead of continuing to invest in them. This lacks data but i'd imagine the more powerful the new armies get, the less love the older ones get and thus their product lines stagnate. I don't know whether this is a good or bad thing. Selling models is selling models.

People who run power-gaming lists generally complain the hardest because they play the game to win not to have fun....

Haha i love this. I had this exact argument with some people on a FB group about Bonereapers and their ridiculous saves on saves. The constant suggestion was 'just kill heroes and they suck'. Its hilarious to think it is just that simple......

I didnt realise they were so old but i have been hearing noise down here from other local retailers as well as comments in local facebook groups but couldnt find anything else substantial. I unfortunately dont live anywhere near a Warhammer store. I'd love to know why our comparable costs are so prohibitively high compared to other regions. Its extortionate.

This is probably a more general Games Workshop post but it definitely affects AOS. Has anyone heard about the rumoured clamping down by Games Workshop on 3rd part retailers? As an Australian its extremely frustrating if this is true as we already pay almost double what the UK and US pay. Its so bad here that one of the major independent retailers (Mightyape) has gone to the regulatory watchdog. This retailer in particular has cited GW reducing their ability to be competitive in the GW market. Overall 6 independent retailers made submissions to the ACCC watchdog. Given our already huge model costs and now an apparent attack on independent stockists of GW models, surely a big hit for AOS players in Oz. https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/www.kotaku.com.au/2013/04/the-iron-fist-how-games-workshop-intends-to-monopolise-the-online-sale-of-products/amp https://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.accc.gov.au/system/files/public-registers/documents/D14%2B158590.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwiNs9Dj9f3mAhVGzzgGHf34BlQQFjACegQIAxAB&usg=AOvVaw0RXz3Lwewb2jjcU2siuQ6Q What do you think about this? Is this happening outside of Australia/New Zealand?

It's more for the fluff of having a general on a horse lead a cavalry charge and the new pistolliers rules are pretty cool. Oh i wish we could have knights back

Ah my mistake. I haven't really looked into anything other than hammerhall or greywater fastness to be honest. I run pure freeguild so to achieve anything all my units need to be near each other. The ignore battleshock wholly within your territory has worked wonders for my terrible bravery shooty boys. I purchased Demigryphs but have never been able to get them to work. I have always wanted to run a pistollier/outrider heavy list but the general on a horse is no longer a thing

I strongly resonate with this. I have massive mobility problems for objective games with my freeguild hammerhall list.

Can me please point me towards the generic command ability that works for missile weapons? I see hammerhall has righteous purpose which works for missile only? Thanks.

I played last night against Khorne with 6 banners and had 8 command points at the end of the game. I lost by a single wound!!!!!!! We played shifting objectives and his blood secrator held the key objective on turn 5 and i could only get 4 wounds on him. I was one failed save away from tabling him. The hardest part i've found with my freeguild heavy list is that having all these command points and abilities does nothing for me other than the typical stand and shoot. Good for shooting units off objectives but it's hard to claim them in a small game.

Doesn't bother me I traded my terrible GLoN army for Sylvaneth. I am currently building a NH army to keep a death faction.

Tears? No i just haven't ever seen cavalry do anything other than be fast and their lack of punch just doesn't fit the logic or narrative of cavalry. Black knights are one of the worst offenders for being under powered. +1 to wound on the charge only..... underwhelming. I've seen some pig heavy IJ lists that work magic but they're not friendly lists.

Cavalry is absolute garbage, probably minimise how much you use. I've started using spirit hosts and they're great at camping objectives and dishing mortal wounds.

Played my first 1k pt game with NH against Khorne demons and managed to win 15-14 on victory points. Like all death armies, getting double turned sucks terribly. I was very lucky to get a few 6+ saves in to keep reapers on the table. The returning models abilities are pretty weak. I had a terrible time trying to get spectral lure off, i think i only got it to work once. The spirit torment return models ability was far more useful. The stars are the spirit hosts though. They ate a lot of wounds and taking the "Ruler of the Spirit Hosts" ability to return models. Their mortal wound output was also quite reliable. I managed to knock over a Daemon Prince in 2 turns. I'm also very lucky my opponent was far more worried about my reapers and ignored my heroes. Kill the heroes in any death list and they fall apart quickly.