Myrdin

This.... Where are my werewolfs, bearmen, boarmen, batmen, harpies, and whole dozen of another similar Beastmen ? Heck we know for a fact there are even underwater Beastmen, just like there are underwater Sylvaneth. Sigh >___> I am not a greedy person. If there was just one BoC themed thing otu of all of these stating that "BoC Army with this keyword gains Monsters of Chaos keyword" meaning we can ally the fun stuff in (raptorix fried chicken huzzah!) thats all I would ask for...

Over all I think these turned out much better than what I was expecting. I was really expecting a fail similar to DoK, but after seeing this I`ll be picking up my card blister for sure. Now I detest the fact that Dragon Ogors are so lukewarm. They should have been Toughness 5, especially when you compare them to normal Ogors. Also the minotaurs having less damage and Toughness than Ogors rubs me the wrong way. But they are also 30pts cheaper per type, so that ones is not so bad. The Dragon Ogors are the ones who seem a bit botched. Expected them being less punchy but 40W T5 or so. Its funny that basic Gor is "worse" than an Ungor due to how shields work in Warry. But the fact is, while they "seem" worse. They are actually amazing. 10W M5 model for 55pts with decent fighting stats for its price range make it really good option for swarming list. The Gor leader is surprisingly very solid! At 170, you are getting an equivalent of your typical Native Warcry Leader. Honestly he is better than the Bestigor one, who only gets 2W and DMG5 crit for 15 pts... 15pts can possibly get you another Gor depending on the list So yeah Gor Leader is absolutely viable! Not sure about the Ungor archers. Seem a bit to expensive and their leader doesnt get more shots either. Out of Minotaurs I think Both leaders are pretty decent, though Its lame that the Great weapon one have only dmg 3/6. Still both are solid. What I am thinking abut for this warband is a either a Gor or Minotaur paired weapon Leader, bunch of pw gors, two ungor archers, and then as many dragon ogors as I can possibly stuff in. The Draconic cleaver one seems worse at first glance but once you take his 2" range into account, he is actually very very good. This is coming from someone who runs bunch of the snake girls in DoK, and those are only S3 Dmg1. So this is like more powerful version of them for pretty much the same price. The Bestigors seem like the worst choice of all of this, which is kinda sad and funny at the same time thinking as they are a mainstay in every BoC list in regular AoS So stat wise the band is pretty solid. Not amazing, but absolutely not horrible. Pretty decent and certainly competitive. What I think is however not amazing is the abilities. The ambush is absolutely horrible. Its so much worse than Orc Charge skill and has limitation of first turn only. Bloodgreed doesnt really seem good either as you heal for the value but need to kill something first... Respite is better though more expensive. Rip and Gore is very good for a double, though you need to kill something. Good way to make your leader be even more effective. Bestial charge is the weird one out because its tied to Bestigors.... I dont like this and honestly this should have been a neutral ability usable by all, seeing as Bestigors are pretty sub par choice. Not sure about the Tripple Volley of Arrows either. The archers are a bit more on the expensive side, and the ability seems a bit meek. It could have been extra shot and +1S then it would be good. But its not horrible if and does have some use I suppose. The Quad.... I mean 20" range and set damage is nice, really nice for softening or finishing targets up. But due to how the non Warcry armies break the game due to massively inflated Wound pools on their units this is again fairly situational, and it being a quad aint exactly a making it any easier to use either. This is the list draft I am looking at right now. Gor Leader 170 / Bestigor 185 2x Ungor Raiders 140 5x Gors with paired weapons 275 / 3 with paired and 2 with shields 295 (good meat shields for Cleaver DO) 1x Dragon Ogor with Cleaver 195 1x Dragon Ogor with Paired weapons 195 (Minotaur with paired weapons has less attacks no do buff to Crit, so even with S5 its not as attractive option. Plus he is slower so there`s that.) 975 pts. This is the draft, Due to the extra points left, its possible to swap in two gors with shields (995), or upgrade the leader to a Bestigors (990). Sure I could go with Ungors instead, but I wanna use Gors at least for something, since they are already outclassed in AoS and dont see much table outside of specific battalions.

Thats really bad ass but its a bit too much Puff magic smoke and too little BEEF for my taste! But still,this is amazing skulpt and paintjob you did there. I mean holy hell this would be an amazing character. Imagine it having two forms a mage and a combat one. This would be the mage one, and the other would be more umpf, meat horns and anger. Honestly I can also see this being used instead of the Wildfire Taurus. ....I was always a huge fan of Malagor the Dark Omen. Really loved that one. Such a shame they made him go puff like all other named Beastmen, and turned his model into basic shaman. Hell Imagine him returning, in DP form. Similar like Morathi works. You have your small infantry sized Malagor, and then you have this amazing thing here replace him, when he goes into overdrive. Edit: I love those small smoke Gor heads floating off from that globe. Thats so adorable :3

Why not both ? I think the Shaggoth in general should be same base size as Gorghon, and at least half its height minimum. Much more umpf on the model and much more umpf on the warscroll. And then a special named Shaggoth. Yes my friend, YES! I also Wanna see the giant Father of all Shaggoths aka big daddy Kolek Suneater himself. I remember reading somewhere that thing is Mountain Sized! In regards to the DP, It doesnt necesarily have to be a DP per say. But more in essence of what it is. Some super buffed up Beastlord who managed defeat many foes, and somehow one way or another became a Demon Prince like entity. As I said, just Imagine the new amazing looking Verminlord, but with a Beastlord. I would buy that immediately no questions asked! *And while I know we dont agree on this one, I would like to see some sort of Beastmen DP because I wanna finally see some recognition for Beastmen. I dont care which warp entity bestows its blessing. There were mentions of a Great Beast God... I came up with this as a semi joke, semi fluff for my Beastmen back in the day, and imagine my surprise when I found a line like this in the codex. I think it was in the panel of Morghur or the one describing Chaos as a state of things/Realm as the Beast God. So having an avatar of that would at least in my mind give the BoC the well earned love they deserve from Chaos itself. But thats just me, as I said it can be a completely different entity, not one of the 4 Chaos Gods. Just something demigod like with an amazing model to put on the table ^^ I mean we are Beast of Chaos, who said we cant have more than one big hero monster?

This. I mean, ours is a faction that should consist of all sorts of anything that has been mutated by chaos. Be it human (elf, dwarf), animal or plant in origin. And yet there is tons of stuff that fit narratively, thematically, but do not have the keyword required for us to take them. And seeing as GW doesn't really care about this army in the slightest, even a simple thing as giving us Monsters of Chaos keyword, so that we can legally make use of these is clearly to much to ask for. But.... you know this is how Beastmen players felt back in the day, when they released Dragon Ogors, and gave them to Warriors of Chaos (the current StD), and didnt include them for Beastmen. All if would took is just add them via FAQ. 5 minutes of writing it and uploading the file. I mean, ok so you dont want to give us our very own new flashy toys. Thats fine, slightly salty but still fine. But at least make those that already exist and are neutrally chaotic (raptorix for example > even the description says its a wild beast mutated by chaos...) available to us. There is no detriment, heck BoC players will bolster the sales of those kits if we can legally use them without restrictions. I am not asking for things that are army specific like Bloodthirsters, Keepers, or Flaming chariots of Tzeentch but, for the more neutral things ? Why not ? Heck I believe Beastmen should have their own version of Demon Prince, just like Skaven have the Verminlord. Thats one is an amazing sculpt that must`ve sold in thousands, I am sure there is plenty of BoC players who would love to add similarly impressive model to not just their collection but to their fielded army as well. (I mean I am converting my own, just because I want to have a BoC Demon Prince). This army could have so much more due to how wide spread the thematic nature of it is. And equally GW could make so much more money if they released nice looking new models with decent enough rules, and also opened some of the existing ones to us via a simple keyword addition. I mean, I dont understand it. The money is out there, easy for taking, and yet they seems not just to ignore it, they seem outright oblivious to such an easy to do cash grab. It truly boggles the mind this one.

So I`ve looked around for this a little bit but couldn't really find anything regarding this, thus the best option left is to ask the wider community and hope someone out there knows more about it. With that said, does anyone know when/how often the Monster Arcanum book is updated ? Especially now with bunch of the older factions getting new battletomes in the last two years (BoC, CoS, StD, Orruks and Ogors come to mind), I was wondering if there is a tangible chance that FW will update the book so it is in line with the current state of the game. It mostly means adding a bunch of keywords to all the units in there so they can be legally taken into matched play games. (Also the little beastmen fan boy inside me really hopes that there will be a day when Skin Wolves finally get the BoC keyword.... I have 6 of these sitting on the shelf collecting dust... with no real way of bringing them in due to keywords.)

Yeah the hypno cat is an amazing model regardless of what it does ! And once again, the giant chaos demon kitty has all the usual chaos keywords, but Beast of Chaos one, which pains my furry little heart.

Tzaangorix.... I like that! though due to the chickens being in a "charging in" position it might be difficult to get a good angle on the upper torso.

So how are you guys finding the Furies and Raptorixes ? I got a whole flock of the dino chickens ready to rock, but the fact that they do not have BoC keyword is grinding me gears every time. For furies I still have my old harpies from Mantic, just need to re-base them accordingly (or just stuck them on the new bases as they are and fill out the rest with GS)

Anyone already got the BoC cards ? Can you give us a summary please ? Considering the terrible balance of the first set of cards, I dont want to buy them just to suffer the same disappointment I had with my DoK. From the GW preview pick, I have few choice words on the first 3 abilities we could see so far.... "impressed" is not among them. I hope at least the stat cards are more solid. Thus hoping to get someone to share theirs thoughts on the stats in a written form

Just out of curiosity, any of you`ve seen the BoC cards for Warcry ? Are they any good ? From what I`ve seen on the ability preview, they seem rather crappy, but I havent seen the individual unit cards. And after getting burned by DoK I dont wanna throw out my money for a Warband that while I love as they are extension of my AoS Beastmen, does not hold candle next to the other Warcry and most importantly non Warcry warbands.

If GW pushed further into digitizing their product: rules battletomes stat cards, etc etc and do what most other companies do I think the updates could be more frequent, as essentially all the paper stuff would be easy to amend and update in its digital form. Of course they could print stuff as well for people who like me enjoy the hardcover rulebooks and such, but going digiatl would do a lot of good for them. Make the rules free to download, form a dedicated IT department that oversees regular updates and such and you could with ease get all the updates for every army done on what a weekly basis. 2-3 armies per month, all armies updated within a span of years. But of course for that to work you need to lay the ground work, the IT department would have to be tighlty tied with the rules department, and the rules departmnet would have to be in constant contact with the gaming scene, tournament scene and the community in general to receive and process feedback, as well as tournament results, statistics for what the most played vs what is not, etc etc. But that way sure I think it might work and, forming a solid base for future new armies to come. Now do I think we need more armies ? No not really. There is quite a lot out there and there is only so much variety you can do until the armies start becoming to samey. I hope this doesnt end up like League of Legends, where they churn up dozen new champions each year, with ever growing power creep, cordoning the people into few top options and leaving the massive roster of other heroes "sit on the shelf" in our wargaming way of speaking. So I think AoS can handle maybe few more armies, but they need to break the mold and be more unique to avoid being just a "re-skin" of an already existing product. I fully support the idea that instead of more armies, at that certain point they would instead start replacing older miniatures with new ones. As someone who has quite the collection of Beastmen I would still be willing to buy more if the update was similar to what StD got. New dynamic poses for existing units, some new models to replace the ancient stuff (DO Shaggoth, Centigors and the old metal Beastlord for example). I believe that would be the best way to go forward for the for the forseeable future. Update the miniature lines, introduce some new ones, and work on Campaign and Scenario exclusive stuff that is also compatible with regular AoS battles. Endless spells were a good idea. Now lets do that with terrain, maybe some neutral NPC monsters that roam the board. You know stuff like that, which is optional but if the models are nice and the the rules are solid people will buy into it. Combined with re-releasing updated model kits for existing armies to bring them up to the current standard, while all the rules are Digitally updated on regular base, while also offering a print on demand physical copy of the books seems like a decent plan for the future.

1, Razorgors > I did use them extensively in every single list. One of the piggies won me a game on its own by sitting on an objective, for the entirity a game and it having so little presence and zero threat to anything, my opponent completely forgot about it as I was keeping him busy elsewhere. However with the points increase they no longer work. Let me put it this way > Ogor Sabertusks are Razorgors on steroids. These pigs should have much more going for them, be it either statline, or ability that adds some sort of value. Generating MW on charge if you roll 6 ? Not good enough. There is zero incentive to run them in groups bigger than 1, And this is one of the problems as well. Before they were 40pts and I often used them as padding, because It just happened that many times I had those 40 points open. Doesnt happen anymore due to the price shifts in our listing. The Tzaangor one hurts a lot, and Skyfires not dropping to compensate aint helping either. Solo Razorgors cant do much else than suicide stop something for a turn, and even thats not really that effective. Units of them do even less. The pigs need something to be either a utility tool, or a unit that can generate enough threat but still be cheap enough for throw away. 2. Minotaurs in general are not good. The MW proc on to Wound rolls, which already suffers from 50% drop due to Hit 4+. Basically the Bulls need an extra attack per all weapon profiles and buff to their horn attacks to be any good. Also the Bloodgreed, rule is not really well written. Procs on To Wounds, and the Heals happens only if you destroy units, instead of models. Bleh. The dual axes are never worth it. With to Hit of 4+ you are better of taking the Great weapons and fishing for that DMG3 instead. Again, If Minos had an extra attack per weapon profile, I could see the Axes being more viable. Still though that 4+ hits them hard, and anyone who can reduce it to 5+ to Hit or even more pretty much neuters the unit completely. If paired axes gave +1 to Hit, I would be all for them. Just like Tzaangors. But this is somethign I said countless times, about paired weaponry for BoC so not gonna repeat it again. 3. With the price drop I personally think the Gorghon is pretty fun to use. And it can do fairly well. Before it was 200 points and didnt have the damage output. -1 Rend, and only 5 attacks is not enough. I still think the thing should be -2 Rend 6 Attacks for it to be the big gribbly, heck give it a terciary weapon profile "Stomping Hoofs" or something to make even better use of the Spell buff. Regardless though. I use them and they work. With Dark Walkers they pose a psychological threat to enemy back line and force a redirection of resources. As you might know from previous discussions, Beastmen dont really have the stats and abilties to win straight out fights, but are great at stalling and board control. Thats what a Gorghon does for you. Ambushing one allows you to pose a threat to enemy movement and forces them to deal with it. At 160 pts its not even that big of an investment any more. Now I mentioned Darkwalkers, but its not like it cant be used without them. However in that case I found it being better served deploying on flanks, along fast stuff like Centigors who work sort of like a snare a capture the target for the Gorghon to come a turn later and nom for. Deploying them center as the main piece so far didnt really work well for me, but then again I am not a tournament player so maybe I am doing something wrong there. If it had an inbuilt -2Rend it would be dependable. As it is right now, its useful though definitely not a must take. But again with the price drop you can fit in 2 of these for 320 points which is pretty good deal. In general our big monsters could use a lot more love, but then again what in our book couldnt. Having only movement as our only strength is kind lame. ********** Honestly I`ve been thinking about this for a while and figured out what really hurt Beastmen in AoS. The only thing that kept this army somewhat compeititive was Primal Fury special rule. After AoS happened it changed from an army wide rule into a Banner Bearer, and then we lost even that. Leaving us with the same stat line but no way to mitigate the pathetic low Hit rate on our more elite stuff. If we got Primal Fury back, even if in a different way, let say it procs only on Charges, that by itself would do more for BoC than the price adjustments we`ve seen so far.

I am in a bit of a talkative mood right now so I`ll write a tad bit longer comment than the ones above, and throw in the Spoiler tab in oder to not take half a page from you good folks A simple ranking from A to F, where A is a strong pick either on its own or in combination with other units due to what it provides in raw power or utility. B is very solid pick. C is your typical medium, not amazing, not bad. D is situational and not an optimal choice but can work, though it costs you and F is utter rubbish and you are better skipping on the unit completely. Now thats all from me. As someone who started this Army primarily from porting his WFB Empire over I think I managed to give unit a decent sum up. Still wish the Witch Hunter, Warrior Priest, War altar, and proper knights and mounted heroes (< this goes for all other sub-faction heroes as well) was an actual thing. I will be hoping for some of those making a return eventually.

And they do get to Overwatch on the charging unit as well, which is not insignificant either as that pretty much equals to a whole round of shooting. With good rolls unit of 20 firing could theoretically wipe a Mawcrusha in overwatch no ?

Where exactly is this written ? Would prefer to know where to point at, in case my opponent is asking about a proof that I can do that. Page63: AMPLIFIED SORCERIES only says the spells are empowered regardless of from where they are from WARRIORS OF THE REALMS - does mention Malign Sorcery, but nothing about you taking any of the basic realm spells.

Just a quick question for my fellow CoS players, this time regarding the magic. Being someone who up till this point avoided using endless spells like the plague. I came to appreciate them a little bit when paired with Hallowheart as it makes it extremely easy to pull them off, plus with the multicasting bonus you go for multiple per turn while still slinging your usual spell without a care in the world. Now this is where I am a bit confused, but which Endless spells can I pick ? CoS gets access to the Neutral ones (Vortex and Pendulum), and depending on the City you get to choose also Ghyran or Aqshy > Emerald swarm or Burning head. Since your city must be from one of the two realms, do you get the option to take them even if you are not playing with Malign Portents rules and are not using any Realm as your battlefield ? This is not an issue with army specific spells (example Beastmen get their 3 spells regardless of Realm as long as they pay for them), but since CoS does the whole thing differently I am a bit confused as how to go around this. Since I have to pay points for them pre-game, it means I can always take the 2 neutral ones and then one from Aqshy or Ghyran depending on the city correct ? So I cant bring spells from lets say Hysh or Ulgu, even if I pay points for them, if we are not playing in the realm of Hysh or Ulgu ? I am asking this in this thread, because I drafted some lists for Hallowheart that use bunch Wizards and endless spells, since this City is perfect for that, but found myself stumbling on the legality of this due to rules/mechanical part. Again, please forgive my question, if it sounds noobish, but as mentioned above. up till this point I have always, always excluded the Endless spells from my lists, regardless of which army I played, simply because I didnt like the idea of it (those who lived through 8th Ed WFB know just how OP magic used to be, and it left a bad aftertaste even now).

Duuudeee.... have you not heard its ungentlemanly to leave a story on a Cliffhanger ?! Now I will never know what happened with the rusted hatches and evil winds Nooooo >___<

So Iron bones or Jawz Splitters eh ?

Yarrr! There be some very nice conversions going on in this `ere thread! Makes me timbers shiver harr harr ! Keep up the good work laddie, tis not an easy task to hunt them fish smelling, water breathing, pale looking fishcakes! Will be lookin forward to more of ya crew making their appearance! Though head the warning of this old sea dog. Never.... ya hear me, never! must you run out of Rum, less there`ll be mutiny and soon you`ll be sleeping with the fishes. And I dont mean them bald headed webbed footed ladies of them water breathers if you catch my drift!

Interesting! I am looking forward what they do with the DoK. Hoping for some new exciting miniatures, if what we`ve seen so far is anything to go by

Hey guys so reading all of this it might be a good idea to make a short summary regarding BoC in different God armies. There seems to be good number of you who have tried BoC under each individual God and got a solid grasp on just how they perform in these conditions and what boons do we got for playing as God marked Beastmen. As such could you please share (surface level or in depth, both will be appreciated) a summary of sort. What does each God army do for Beastmen, if the Beastmen are taken for that army via its corresponding God Battalion ? Like Khorne does: X!Y!Z!, Slaanesh does 6996 , Tzeentch does: $&%O*£) and Nurgle does: .....x___x...... I am sure there might be people like me who did try to run Vanilla BoC up till this point, but with the power creep beeing what it is, its seems more viable to run them under a God specific army via our God Batallions , thus compiling what you get from each into one spot might be a good way to get a general idea and comparison

Its interesting how the tide of different gaming formats is like the ebb and flow of the local community. When Infinity came to our humble parts, what 6-8 years ago, the overall reception was lukewarm at best. But in the last year and half it picked up a lot of steam and more people started getting into it. Me included. As for Malifaux, I`ve always had a mild interest regarding the game, but no one ever played it here. Only recently I met a guy who is trying to jump start it in our local community, by bringing his gangs to the club, borrowing and teaching new players who showed interest. I had one box of the Oiran/Kunoichi I picked up years ago just for the miniatures. It seems that the tide changed a lot with the new edition, and some new people are getting more interested into it as well. Honestly, the more I play these skirmish game the more I enjoy them. Its refreshing to not have to lug around 2-3 bags filled with hundreds of miniatures, and spending 30 minutes unpacking and packing your army. To bad I already invested so much into 3 different AoS armies, both time and money wise, but as someone mentioned above: If you wanna play, you have to play what others are playing. Thankfully in our local club bunch of non AoS/40K games are getting more support than they used to, so there is finally something else to choose from and shake things up a little, when you are like me and grew kind of a fatigue with AoS as it is now.

Just dropping by to say: Thank you Reason ? > Your Sisters of the Thorn conversion. I was getting ready to do the whole "Centigor" thing all over again. You know the: Take the Gor, take the Horse, remove legs & head, file the excess, fit into the horse socket, greenstuff, more greenstuff and btis. All 9 yards I did for my Beastmen Centigors, but with the Sisters as a female variant using the SotT box. And here you, good dear sir have cut the amount of work by using the Melusai upper bodies which already come separated from their bottom parts! Genius! They do seem a bit thinner than if done from the Sisters, but hell, this saves me so much time and energy spent on fitting those two miniatures together to make that nice looking W3 Dryad thats its well worth a try! So again, thank you for this inspiration, and keep up the good work (also that engraving on that orc axe is very neat!)

There are other gaming systems. Some of which became pretty damn big considered how dense the GW community and reach is. Now both of these are skirmish style games. No huge armies marching in the field slamming into each other. Rather warbands and gangs of specialist who challenge each other in different scenarios. A Good example would be Corvus Belli and Infnity. That game is absolutely amazing. The rules are layerd upon rules which are layerd upon rules, but once you learn the first layier it becomes so much easier. Models are stunning and the rules are provided for free online. You buy the beatiful fully colored book only if you really want it. Another example I personally had the pleasure to play was Malifaux. Very very nice looking miniatures, each unique in their own way. No dice, instead you use a deck with cards that represent your rolls. Fairly unique system, and a bit confusing at first but the game was swift and fun and I ceratinly want to get more of that. Warlords of Erehwon is a Warlords Games game.... with all the pros and cons that it entails. If you like stuff like Anthares or Bolt Action, you will be right at home. I tried two games of Anthares and one of Erehwon. Its fairly easy to get in and learn the ropes. It uses a different dice system than D6 which is also quite interesting in its own right. The miniatures for Anthares are your 80/90 Scifi, and Erehwon is built in a way where you can use whatever miniatures you have, as long as they at least partially look the part. Erehwon does feel similar to the older iteration of Warhammer. The units are not as big as 8th ed Fantasy, but they are still more chunky for it to not be considered just a Skirmish game of 10 or so miniatuers. Unfortunately for me the people who play Warlord games stuff in our club are ..... "unpleasant" at the very minimum in order to avoid cussing. This killed my interest in the game completely as my free time is limited and I am not keen on spending it with a bunch of A*holes. These are the 3 main example that come to my mind that have been growing fairly quickly in our local community and manage to attract decent amount of stable players to keep them going. I tried each of these and had plenty of fun as all of them feel familiar in one way or another but each does its its own thing and they do it well. With Anthares I was 50/50 at first but after two more I bought a small army and got ready to get in. With Infinity my army is growing constantly as I invest more time and effort into it, and Malifaux is something I need to give another try or two, but so far I am pretty interested and the whole Miniatures with deck of Cards system is quite unique and engaging. I would strongly recommend at least trying few games of these if you have the option to do so and community to play with. The first two games tend to be chaotic, but after 3 games you should have pretty good idea if you like it or not.