Frowny

The problem is that the biggest alpha strike happens not on the top of t1 but on the bottom. I think the advantage is to the second player, with most spells, charges and abilities having only an 18 inch threat range. So the first player can't do much damage and then takes both a big alpha and has the possibility of being double turned against to seal the deal. For me the challenge is that the person who has fewest drops can both build their list around an alpha and gaurantee the best turn to take advantage of it. I think even as I'm taking about it I don't mind the double turn, I mind the automatic first pick priority based on drops. I'd rather it be a roll with a plus one like every other turn

Hi there, I'm looking to start a second army and wanted some thoughts on what to play. I currently play sylvaneth in a more hoardy way and am interested in something a little different Things I'm looking for Ongoing mobility (not just stormcast deepstrike once) Mobile screens Mobile hammer type units Elite, smallish model count Preferably death or chaos Does not need to be supercompetitive Any thoughts? I'm kinda leaning toward tzeentch with a lot of enlightened or death with bloodknights. Thoughts?

I did the stormcast conversion for some chosen. They fit fine on 32s. I'd just our them on the correct bases for whatever you are converting them to be.

I really like the models and playstyle of nighthaunt and am considering starting an army. However, I currently play sylvaneth, mostly as a horde of dryads and revenants, with 90ish models on the field Is it possible to play a reasonably competitive nighthaunt army without hordes? For example, I was thinking of allying in some Bloodknights and/or morghasts I know legions of nagash has the ability to use most of the same models, but also allows for some harder hitters (e.g. morghasts, blood knights). Do you think that might be a better route? It doesn't allow for the same mobility though, which was definitely a perk for me. Another challenge is that you always want summonable units to take advantage of the gravesites and invocations of death, but they are all hordes, almost by default.

Yeah. They seem alright now. Versatile. The astral compass also seems fine. Mostly they will start on the board as screens anyway so you can deepstrike harder hitters. But they will never be the heavy lifters of a list, so I think people will need to look elsewhere for that

Random poll question: 1) if you are forced into turn 1 by deployment, how often do you give up the double turn when you win priority? I find that it is actually never, and if I did, the possibility of a future double would not be enough to ever catch up, at least in a game that isn't already concession worthy. So it is a false choice. 2 how often have you won when the opponent took a 1 to 2 double turn? For me I've found the answer to be a pretty low percentage. Much lower than my average in every other turn order combination. Also note that this is a biased answer because many times they will just keep the turn order if they can't take advantage, so the 2nd player have the option for a big win if it presents itself but can also maintain the status quo. Mostly it therefore feels like the 2nd player in the turn order gets a good choice if they win while the first player gets no such choice. I almost wish the rolloff determined it without the choice part. Then both players still have to play around the double possibility but the dominant position one can't use it to their advantage as much since they might end up with a useless double. I think the strongest part of the double turn is not the turn itself but the choice which you can use to huge gain. I would love to remove that choice because I think it would make for a lot more interesting small choices along the way with how you move things if the 2nd player doesn't have that confidence.

I think the furies have some potential. Skinks are very very strong battleline, and while these are less cheap per wound defensively, and aren't battleline, they are much faster, can fly, and can actually light kill things in combat if needed. I'm imagining using them as a screen in front of knights. If charged they can Fallback over their target and out of the way and guarantee a juicy charge while also setting themselves up to hit a backline caster or ranged unit. It just fall back 3 inches and keep screening. Don't underestimate that ability.

The start collecting demons of tzeentch is a good start. Alternatively they used to have a tzeentch arcanites box with some enlightened and I think tzaangors and acolytes that was also good value. One nice thing is that I've seen peoples lists here with quite the variety of units in. Basically all the battleline options and a large chunk of the heroes have use. Screamers, chariots and flamers are on the weaker end but most things are solid in a casual and even up to a competitive army level. Buy what you like and want to paint. Maybe start with a box of enlightened and archeon since you know you want those anyway

I think they both have merit. Keep in mind that with the 3rd attack, you only need 2/³rds as many in combat to get the same damage output. So yes, often I don't get quite all of them, but they will still out damage dryads. This so ignoring the 3+ to wound. On the defence however it is much harder and the 2 inch reach much more useful.

True but it's one sided unlike cogs and +3 makes for a more reliable charge than only +2. A 6inch charge with a reroll is 92 percent successful, which is quite good. (Mid 70s without). I also like that you can put it somewhere and then jump your tree revenants to it, giving them a likely easy charge anywhere on the board the next turn. But yes, definitely better for hunters or treelords than big units of spite revenants or dryads, which are hard to get within 8.

And a related question: are we allowed to use the old sylvaneth wildwoods as 'awakened wildwoods'? Otherwise it will take me a quite a long time to buy all the new trees. They are pretty expensive (again), much more so than the wildwoods, and I already have ~6 of those... I think reading the designer commentary the answer is yes, but i'm unsure

I agree. I find first then I make a woods in my backfield and put the hive into or near it. It enabled an easy first turn strike (jump from backfield woods with +3 charge to a forward wood) and then follows it up with a nice platform for summoning more dryads. And the reroll 1s is down for holding the objective it is near

I tried out the new tome yesterday Winterleaf 300 TLA, general, required trait, healing spell 100 Archrevenant, artifact 80 branchwraith, throne of vines 80 branchwraith, 270 dryads x30 200 dryads x 20 200 spite revenants x 20 80 tree revenants x5 400 scythe hunters x 6 200 sword hunters x3 50 spiteswarm hive 1960 Casual game, knife to the heart, against stormcast Knight azyros, heraldod, Lord arcanum on cat, 3x evocs on cats, 10x evocators, 2x5 sequitors, 5 judicators with xbows, 2x ballistas Lots of things to learn on my part. 1 First, if you want to alpha with the hive, put it down before you tree jump. I also failed to remember my exploding 6s THE ENTIRE GAME not did I remember to use the fight twice seed. Made it a lot harder on myself 2 gotta spread out to stop deepstrike alphas 3 new TLA is more of a toolbox, but I think will be a staple of my lists. 4 spites are very useful now. 5 dryads are still useful. And Big blocks with a 3rd attack from the arch revenants still do work. Not as flashy as the shiny new spites but I was not disappointed 6 wholly within is a thing. I gotta watch out. 6inakes summoning trees and then jumping a little easier though Questions The 2nd block of dryads and the sword hunters could be exchanged I think. I'd like a 3rd hammer to balance out the spites and scythes. I did like the 2nd tarpit though and the multiple big units helped the Archrevenant shine. Any thoughts on other things to use instead? I would also like a 2nd unit of tree revenants I think. Bit don't know how to fit them.

Does anybody have a summary of the point changes? I'm having trouble finding them in whichever different errata I'm supposed to be looking at. 🙄

I think the new warsinger command trait may be worth building around. A free undispellable certain cogs for the key pieces of your army adds a ton of reliability. If there were a Glade that added 2 inches to charges people would be talking about it and this is almost as good. Also gives flexibility for the artifact Unrelatedly, Given the bump in price of cogs I think we will be seeing a lot of the spiteswarm hive.

In general, swords do the most damage. They will beat out scythes against everything but the highest save targets. However the scythes are better in units of 6 since with their big bases the swords can't usually fit more than 4ish models, especially not while sprouting roots and only piling in 1in. The reach also gives them flexibility. Tldr: swords in 3s and scythes in 6 or 9s. I'd build 3 of each. I'll be most opponents would let you proxy whatever you want. Unfortunately they are very hard to magnetize.

I would probably buy 2x start collecting. You'll eventually want the thralls for battleline and it gives you 6 eels as well for your mobile element. A nice core Then try out a few games at ~750 points or whatnot and see what you like. Also, Idoneth has a beautiful model range so you could just purchase what you want to play and paint. Thats usually my strategy. In terms of strength: Must have's- eels. Must Avoid: Sharks, the big turtle. But they are beautiful models and you wouldn't handicap yourself much if you brought one in even a semi-competitive setting.

At least for old sylvaneth 1) Don't charge into the woods. Instead pile into them, as it negates the 1's kill models rule 2) If given the option, take first turn and move up. Limiting my woods placement on t1 is quite useful for you. Don't just turtle, as I can turtle better. I'm bad at pushing you off objectives but excellent at holding them. 3) Acknowledge that the woods are dark and full of terrors. Know their rules (MW w/in 1 inch on casts w/in 6 in) 4) Don't be so afraid of the woods that you give up easy objectives or avoid fights you might easily win. If there are no sylvaneth there, the woods is just a scenery piece. 5) Do 3 wounds to durthu. he looses a ton of effectiveness on his first bracket Some parts will probably change very shortly though

I agree. There is a lot of doom and gloom here but basically everything seems on point. At least the right direction. I too would rather small changes rather than giant swings. My only concern is that a consistent trend of decreasing points means gradual army size inflation over time. But basically everything here seems like a good idea. I think there will be more diversity in several rosters with this.

I've had quite good luck converting individual ones out of other miniatures. For example, my quicksilver swords is just a lot of spare sword arms an weapons attached to paperclips. I plan to make a sylvaneth spiteswarm the same way (lots of spare bug bits)

I really like it. The spoiled rules already get rid of some of the biggest abuse potentials 1) Only 2 of a certain warscroll in combination with min sized units means that any army with single OP units can't really take advantage as effectively, since they will be forced. For example, all-eel idoneth, can now only take 12 eels, and they will be coming in turns 2 and 3. A big improvement from 18 on turn 1. 2) Min or 2x min sized units means endless buff stacking is not really viable either. My friend has a 120 grot list at 1k points that is normally pretty rough, which gets slightly nerfed (but 80 grots is still a lot). Similarly hordes of skeletons are a lot less scary when they are only 20 models. Makes killing them off before the regenerate much more doable. 3) Behemoths don't get active until T2 or T3 if you take more than 1: Really takes the wind out of some of the abusive Nagash+3 dog builds, as you are playing down most of your army for a turn, and he'll start off at the back of the board and have to move up after that, maybe taking him another turn to really do much. Multiple terrorgheists starting on t3 is also much more balanced We might still see revealed rules that change summoning. Seraphon with all their summoning tied to a single slaan are still quite annoying at 1k points. They get their full battletome of summoning but it only really costs 260 points. Similarly, anybody who thought an archeregent at like 240 immediately bringing 200 points of models while also being a burly 2 cast wizard was a bit confused. Khorne, Tzeentch and Slaanesh are already bounded by army size (# Units/# casts/# wounds). Nurgle is not, but is also the weakest of the 4 in terms of summoning. Big winners: Beastclaw raiders, Stormcast. Anybody who can use the Other 0-2 to put down a lot of value will be quite effective. For example 4-600 points of evocators on or off dracolines will murder most other small units easily, and you can follow up with a bunch of judicators to contribute immediately after arriving (without having to walk)

I think it's more that while she does benefit from the glades, everything else does as well. And most other things didn't have point adjustments. Dryads, tree revenants and hunters were already strong or useful, stayed the same cost, and now get a free Glade bonus. Treelords, durthu and spite revenants also gain the Glade bonuses but dropped in points to boot. Yes, she is slightly stronger, but compared to other options I think she is in fact a worse pick. I will certainly be experimenting with other builds now, rather than immediately starting out with her and going from there. Seems like less of an autopick now

She isn't THAT sturdy, at least not for 400 points, so I've found occasionally I get her in rough spots when I commit too much to her melee prowess. Also, the 4+ to hit on single targets with the main attack (beetle) can be pretty swingy. The EV of her 25 damage-attacks is only ~7 on a 4+ save single target, so sometimes you fail to kill the character/monster or damage the big unit enough and then are overextended (due to her giant base) and get mushed. I've found her most valuable immediately behind my main line, right in the middle. That way she can use all of her abilities to full effect but she isn't in danger of a serious return damage. Then she can use her huge mobility to pick her melee fight slightly later (against an opponent she will obliterate) or you can threaten the counter-charge which is sometimes just as effective as charging. I guess I do have a plan for her melee, it just isn't immediately going full on in immediately. When I did that at first, she got mangled

I think she's been nerfed a good bit actually. A few important quality of life changes which I'm very happy with to be sure but her core function as a jack of all trades didn't change and most of her changes are kinda a wash in terms of overall power. Additionally, 60 points is not nothing. When you consider her free summon putting her at 400/460, is a 15% increase. For that, she gains the Glade abilities, but since she is such a Swiss army knife no single buff is that helpful. For example the exploding 6s doesn't help if you need her as a mobile spell or ranged turret. It's also that many of the other options got stronger and more focused and benefit more from the Glade stuff

Hey there. I got myself some looncurse boxes for my sylvaneth and was therefore thinking of starting a squig only gloomspite army. Any thoughts on this list? 300 Loonboss on Mangler squig- general fight another day 80 Fungoid cave shaman- squig lure 80 Fungoid cave shaman- teleport maybe? Or fight last? 70 squig herd x5 70 squig herd x5 200 boingrot bounderz x10 200 boingrot bounderz x10 Would this be at all effective or fun to play? It seems a bit one dimensional. I don't think if ever build for more than 1000 points.