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How would YOU bring back Slaanesh?


KHHaunts

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Starting this to help draw out one of the tangents of the rumor thread.

Heres the question.

Based on what we already know from what little we have heard of the prince of pleasure. How do you think they will go about returning him/her (if at all) and what changes do you think we will see?

And also how would you tackle its return if it were down to you.

 

 

Here goes

Obviously the general rumor flying about was that Slaanash was getting squatted because the theme of "sex drugs and rock n roll" wasent apporpriate for youngsters and provided a barrier to GW targeting younger players as a market.

Now in response to this many people angrily stated "Slaanesh is not about sex its about excess in all its forms". This completely true and in my oppinion is how he/she should be portrayed.

However people have to admit that whatever the base lore of the god of excess is. Its lore/novels and models have definatley been lent towards the more sexual references than anything else. Which on the face of it in a grim dark universe makes sense as in its darkest form the whole "Getting sexual pleasure out of everything" not to mention many other acts that i wont mentioned on a family friendly forum really made Slaanesh a truelly terrifying being. (Exactly as a chaos god should be).

That being said times are a changing and why i dont think they should remove the sexual thing entirely i do think they should make it one part of a much larger range of excesses and pleasures.

 

To kick us off then my idea was. Seven deadliy sins theme.

Most of the sins correspond to excessive behaviour in one form or another. How would you lot fill them up?

Lust = we know that one. bring on the deamonettes.

Gluttony = ?

Greed =?

Sloth =?

Wrath = ?

Envy = ?

Pride = ?

 

Also their is a good chance for a counter to these sins for stormcast and otherorder armies by looking at the 7 virtues that oppose them

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I think the whole missing god thing is  quite good. He/she can still have followers, but the god herself will probably be missing until there is enough civilization and wealth for there to be any excess....

remember the chaos gods are manifestations of humanoid beliefs. So when most of humanity still is downsodden poor sobs....there can't be any excess right?

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I've always thought that Slaanesh was represented in a slightly weird way; in 40k they tended to focus on the sensory aspects of him - noise marines, drug injectors etc.
WFB focussed more on the pride/adoration aspect e.g. Sigvald.
As far as "lust" goes, I'm keener on the German interpretation - general desire/zeal/interest, although a difficult theme to represent on the tabletop but to me absolutely the overarching driver for Slaanesh.
Gluttony/Greed - I think these are problems as greed isn't really in the paradigm. Gluttony fits into the sensory aspect, but Nurgle kinda has the field in terms of corpulence these days (although the old Slaanesh artworks of enormous tubbies was great). Sloth is also an aspect of the garden as well.
Wrath - well there's a guy on a brass throne that has that in his remit.

I think that Lust, Pride and envy are the Slaanesh keys.
The real issue is how those would translate to a 'hook' on the table top.
I can see an idea for debuffs/zone control all over the place with some of the older Slaanesh stuff - whether by making units adore another unit, obsess over a terrain piece, etc.

The only idea I can think of at present would be the bloodreaver equivalents - let's call them Adulators?
Somewhere in between Necron Flayed ones and Ghouls, they are motivated purely by envy - they want *that* weapon, they want to wear *his* hair, copy *her* walk, etc. etc. - they strip/steal/consume all the aspects from their opponents in the pursuit of status?
Immune to battleshock in combat with a hero, monster, priest or wizard, maybe weaponry/statline randomises after they wipe a unit out as they re-arm/dress themselves?


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I don't know much about Slaanesh having started with AOS. But after some web searches I think GW would need to tone some of the imagery down. 

Yes I know that will be unpopular statement, but after this past weekend seeing a Dad bring in his young daughters to the local GW store, and ask the GW rep to find models that are female and dressed appropriately for their ages, and then watching the GW employee struggle to find more than 2-3 boxes (in stock at least) I think that for the good of the hobby they need to ensure models are appropriate for all ages.

Ok let the discontent begin..  :ph34r:

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30 minutes ago, chord said:

I don't know much about Slaanesh having started with AOS. But after some web searches I think GW would need to tone some of the imagery down. 

Yes I know that will be unpopular statement, but after this past weekend seeing a Dad bring in his young daughters to the local GW store, and ask the GW rep to find models that are female and dressed appropriately for their ages, and then watching the GW employee struggle to find more than 2-3 boxes (in stock at least) I think that for the good of the hobby they need to ensure models are appropriate for all ages.

Ok let the discontent begin..  :ph34r:

TBH, I'd rather the entire concept got moved over to Forgeworld - where I guess they probably have more freedom - than a watered-down version from the main studio.

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39 minutes ago, chord said:

Yes w that will be unpopular statement, but after this past weekend seeing a Dad bring in his young daughters to the local GW store, and ask the GW rep to find models that are female and dressed appropriately for their ages, and then watching the GW employee struggle to find more than 2-3 boxes (in stock at least) I think that for the good of the hobby they need to ensure models are appropriate for all ages.

Ok let the discontent begin..  :ph34r:

Off topic but all the more reason to drop a proper female stormcast kit. ;)

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A re-imagniation of Slaanesh for me would link them into a opera setting again, much like the Masque and Noise Marines. Leading to some kind of lust and sin flavour but much less as is currently the case.

In general I'd say I'd focus them around a dark desire, represented by beautiful models but not in the sexualized way. For mortals this would mean that Dark Romans would be my design pick and have them function as cultists living amongst the Order realms, which would indeed even allow you to include converted Stormcast mixed with Daemons linked to music, mind control and in general some older biblical representations of how music and art can change people. 

So model design wise:
- Mortals like Dark Romans, with a carnival/opera theme (Sigval design warriors, Marauders like those of Tzeentch but more armoured and less magicaly mutated, more masked and armoured)
- Daemons like they more or less are now but more mustic and noise based, plus introducing mind control through music
Rules design wise:
- Much more ranged attacks as typically seen on Chaos models, noise and music is used as a weapon
- Mind control magical effects, allowing you to subdue opponents (they must strike last), move opponents and attack amongst themselves
- Faster as usual and decently armoured
Pro: 1. Ranged attacks, 2. Influence magic
Con: 1. Not as potent as some Chaos designs in meele, 2. Not extremely resilient

In general it wouldn't be unlike what AoS has written for Slaanesh. The idea would be revolving around less melee and more ranged attacks, letting opponents sit down and get shot, while they enjoy the music or opera in general. :) 
It would also be the basic opposite as Khorne who's melee driven, anti-magic and potent in melee, the one atribute they do shair is that both arn't extremely resilient (that aspect fully belongs to Nurgle). 

http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/warhammer40k/images/a/a9/Masque.png
sigfinished1.jpg

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Drop the hermaphrodite stuff and go with lusty female full-bodied demon-aelves and male shirtless ripped meathead demon-aelves. 

1 hour ago, chord said:

I don't know much about Slaanesh having started with AOS. But after some web searches I think GW would need to tone some of the imagery down. 

Yes I know that will be unpopular statement, but after this past weekend seeing a Dad bring in his young daughters to the local GW store, and ask the GW rep to find models that are female and dressed appropriately for their ages, and then watching the GW employee struggle to find more than 2-3 boxes (in stock at least) I think that for the good of the hobby they need to ensure models are appropriate for all ages.

Ok let the discontent begin..  :ph34r:

See Sylvaneth. See Wanderers. More on the evil side: See Witch Aelves. Elves as a whole are usually feminine enough to be called such. Technically Orcs and Goblins have no gender, and I couldn't tell you the gender of most Skaven and Seraphon. And most demons outside of Slaanesh have no genitalia to determine whether it's either. Would not male and female models wear the same mass produced armor anyway? Does it really have to have ****** and hips to count as female? Maybe the problem here isn't GW's lack of female models, maybe it's your lack of imagination and assumption of gender.

I don't care much for Female specific models/kits, I don't need a new Empire State Troops Box with a few slightly smaller models or some with boob armor (which is the usual response after asking for female troops). I just need heads and hair that look feminine. See the Shadow Warriors/Sisters of Avelorn Box (Which does a horrible job of advertising that it's a dual kit).

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52 minutes ago, Killax said:

A re-imagniation of Slaanesh for me would link them into a opera setting again, much like the Masque and Noise Marines. Leading to some kind of lust and sin flavour but much less as is currently the case.

In general I'd say I'd focus them around a dark desire, represented by beautiful models but not in the sexualized way. For mortals this would mean that Dark Romans would be my design pick and have them function as cultists living amongst the Order realms, which would indeed even allow you to include converted Stormcast mixed with Daemons linked to music, mind control and in general some older biblical representations of how music and art can change people. 

So design wise:

- Mortals like Dark Romans, with a carnival/opera theme
- Daemons like they more or less are now but more mustic and noise based, plus introducing mind control through music

Masquerade ball kinda vibe then...

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Drop the hermaphrodite stuff and go with lusty female full-bodied demon-aelves and male shirtless ripped meathead demon-aelves. 
See Sylvaneth. See Wanderers. More on the evil side: See Witch Aelves. Elves as a whole are usually feminine enough to be called such. Technically Orcs and Goblins have no gender, and I couldn't tell you the gender of most Skaven and Seraphon. And most demons outside of Slaanesh have no genitalia to determine whether it's either. Would not male and female models wear the same mass produced armor anyway? Does it really have to have ****** and hips to count as female? Maybe the problem here isn't GW's lack of female models, maybe it's your lack of imagination and assumption of gender.
I don't care much for Female specific models/kits, I don't need a new Empire State Troops Box with a few slightly smaller models or some with boob armor (which is the usual response after asking for female troops). I just need heads and hair that look feminine. See the Shadow Warriors/Sisters of Avelorn Box (Which does a horrible job of advertising that it's a dual kit).

Oh my god. What if the new Slaanesh is an army of Tumblrinas? All placards, banners and whining because no-one gets how amazing, beautiful and unique they are... [emoji15]

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1 hour ago, chord said:

I don't know much about Slaanesh having started with AOS. But after some web searches I think GW would need to tone some of the imagery down. 

Yes I know that will be unpopular statement, but after this past weekend seeing a Dad bring in his young daughters to the local GW store, and ask the GW rep to find models that are female and dressed appropriately for their ages, and then watching the GW employee struggle to find more than 2-3 boxes (in stock at least) I think that for the good of the hobby they need to ensure models are appropriate for all ages.

Ok let the discontent begin..  :ph34r:

It is mind-boggling how a barbarian holding two chopped-off heads in his hand (from AoS starter set) is less inappropriate than a female with uncovered tit. Where the world is heading for...

Aside - I hope under-aged schoolgirls are not GW's target.

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Fluff wise: even if know nothing except that he/she was captured by the elven gods after getting too fat to move, I think it could be interesting that he/she progressively appears and eventually breaks free of his/her cell (assuming he/she remains captive). He/she feeds on the emotions manifested in the mortal realms (sort of like Eldar Fall v2.0), growing stronger after being nullified post-ET. Could make a cool campaign. Throw in Morathi in there.

Also make an emphasis on the followers as a bunch of sick ***** that are depraved on every level. As mentioned by many, not only pain, pleasure, lust... but also eating like a bunch of pigs or painting insane art (like those crazy scenes in the Fulgrim novel).  Basically, this:

Image result for slaanesh artwork

 

Model wise: warriors in elegant ornamental armours, like Sigvald or these guys:

7df84058671d7b13d91e2d500894cb6a.jpg

   Also bring back 6th edition daemonettes (or just bring back the whole hordes of chaos daemon models, they were much more feral and awesome than the cartoony ones we have now...). Keeper of Secrets could resemble the FW one with a few head/arm options, no need of more.

 

 Rule wise: Like other chaos armies but with a focus on mobility and all spells/artefacts/gifts dealing with control (forcing movement, preventing attack, etc...). An allegiance ability related to the 7 sins, where each can add a bonus to units why keyword (Pride= -1 to battleshock / Gluttony= no running but 5+ ward save / Envy= reroll 1's to hit, etc...). Or maybe even some table with random effects for mood swings?? Like a massive version of chaos warshrine, so the army really relies on bonuses and synergies? 

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38 minutes ago, Kyriakin said:

Masquerade ball kinda vibe then...

For Daemons of Slaanesh most certainly! For the Mortals of Slaanesh more cultism, orderly and civilized, Dark Romans :) 

30 minutes ago, Aryann said:

It is mind-boggling how a barbarian holding two chopped-off heads in his hand (from AoS starter set) is less inappropriate than a female with uncovered tit. Where the world is heading for...

Aside - I hope under-aged schoolgirls are not GW's target.

Well... You have to put the blame on He-man for that, chopped heads and skulls are 'decoration'. Also notice how close to none of the AoS art has models who are physically bleeding, cut in half or executed in detail.  There is a ton of suggestive battle going on with very little to no casualties (compaired to WFB).

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Well... You have to put the blame on He-man for that, chopped heads and skulls are 'decoration'. Also notice how close to none of the AoS art has models who are physically bleeding, cut in half or executed in detail.  There is a ton of suggestive battle going on with very little to no casualties (compaired to WFB).

The Wolverine principle. No matter how many people he dispatches with his claws, the only blood you ever see on him is his.

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1 hour ago, Killax said:

A re-imagniation of Slaanesh for me would link them into a opera setting again, much like the Masque and Noise Marines. Leading to some kind of lust and sin flavour but much less as is currently the case.

In general I'd say I'd focus them around a dark desire, represented by beautiful models but not in the sexualized way. For mortals this would mean that Dark Romans would be my design pick and have them function as cultists living amongst the Order realms, which would indeed even allow you to include converted Stormcast mixed with Daemons linked to music, mind control and in general some older biblical representations of how music and art can change people. 

So model design wise:
- Mortals like Dark Romans, with a carnival/opera theme (Sigval design warriors, Marauders like those of Tzeentch but more armoured and less magicaly mutated, more masked and armoured)
- Daemons like they more or less are now but more mustic and noise based, plus introducing mind control through music
Rules design wise:
- Much more ranged attacks as typically seen on Chaos models, noise and music is used as a weapon
- Mind control magical effects, allowing you to subdue opponents (they must strike last), move opponents and attack amongst themselves
- Faster as usual and decently armoured
Pro: 1. Ranged attacks, 2. Influence magic
Con: 1. Not as potent as some Chaos designs in meele, 2. Not extremely resilient

In general it wouldn't be unlike what AoS has written for Slaanesh. The idea would be revolving around less melee and more ranged attacks, letting opponents sit down and get shot, while they enjoy the music or opera in general. :) 
It would also be the basic opposite as Khorne who's melee driven, anti-magic and potent in melee, the one atribute they do shair is that both arn't extremely resilient (that aspect fully belongs to Nurgle). 

http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/warhammer40k/images/a/a9/Masque.png
sigfinished1.jpg

I do like the carnival/Masqurade idea. since an army of beautiful people would work perhaps ones who are worshiping perfection with ornmentation and masks. Game of thrones sons of the harpy come to mind but more roman esque with some bling.

 

Based on the lake of Aleves and the whole suggestion that morathis is involved i wouldnt be surprised if the whole "mortal" aspect of the army gives humans a miss and goes straight on to aelves.

OR

has humans as the lowest tier with Aelves making up the elite.

So something like this:

Karic acolytes/Blood Reaver = Adulators - mask wearing pleasure seeking fantatics trying to emulate their daemonic and aelvish masters - fast but weak units that can be driven to frenzy inthe presence of "sources of beauty anf perfection" some sort of enyoument of pain mechanic.

ALSO: the mortal slaansh champion currently avalaible with fill similar roles to the tzeentch magisters and fatemasters

Tzaangors/blood warriors = Masks of Excess - Think dark versions of 40k harlequins/witch aleves who seek perfection in all its forms. Elite acrobatic models that rank amongst the fastest in the entire game. Super glass cannons

Leader/Champion = Paragon of Excess: Like a twisted version of a 4ok eldar exarch some aelven follower who has attainednear perfection in a single pursuit and gained favor in the eyes of he dark prince.

Daemons: Daemonettes with a little less boob leaving the whole aluring thing a little more to the imagination. Otheer than that im not sure for new daemons.

Characters:

- Morathi: showing her true form as some sort of avatar of slaanash. incorporate the 2 shadows thing. . . .?

- Nkari or some other greater daemon character.

- the likes of the masque should fit in just fine

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Probably push the concept that Slaanesh worshippers pursue pleasure with no holds barred.  The true nature of pleasure being that it only brings momentary happiness, often at some cost.  Think about eating you favourite meal - you'll probably eat more than you should do, even though you know you shouldn't and then pay for it by feeling over-full for the next few hours.  Now ramp that up to 11 and the cost is part of your soul...

For a workable army I'd want something different to the other Chaos gods.  Mortals shouldn't be too strong or apparent as they're easily swayed.

A mortal unit of slave type "barely" humans, driven on by a pain master (most likely damonette).  Humans who have been encouraged to probe the depths of depravity and only a portion of their soul remains - constantly searching for that last pleasure that only death can provide.

Slaangor, big and brutal who get their pleasure from killing and hurting others.  Can run and charge and must charge an enemy unit if there is one within 9".  They quite literally only exist to hurt others.

Prince/princess of darkness.  Some kind of Daemon Prince that forces non-hero units to move towards them in the movement phase and can force units to strike last or reduce attacks.  Basically something that causes little damage but is a tool to control the damage being done by your opponent.

Possible some kind of command trait that applies a generic -1 to hit for shooting attacks against Slaanesh Daemons to represent their "perfection" (until they get up close and start peeling your face off)

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I've recently been a little upset with how the chaos gods have been portrayed. In recent years they've been used as the ultimate baddies and as such have been reduced to their core and most bombastic characteristics.

Khorne followers are beserk mad men 

Nurglites stink

Tzeentch followers are mustache twirling magicians

A good deal of the subtleties of the gods have been planes away and any convincing reason for mortals worshiping them along with them.

I prefer the chaos gods to be ambivalent and focused on different traits of humanity rather than themed baddies.

Slaanesh has always been a little muddles in the fluff. The path I'd like her to take in AoS, especially with the highlighted relationship with the Aelves, is more akin to the eldar in 40k. Rather than simply focussed on pleasure she would reward those who are obsessively interested in pursuing their interests to the exclusion of all others. 

I think we can all think if real life examples where to the pursuit of beauty to its extremes can make one hideous, or the pursuit of justice can make one excessively cruel. It's a more subtle approach to a god focussed on pride and sensation but one that I think is both far more fitting with the AoS brief and conveniently works well with Aelven culture.

I must say I'm not very up to date on the story, as I only have access to the snipets available online, but I'd like to see Slaanesh return through one of the Aelven hero's who was thought to have defeated her, slowly molding through encouragement an Aelven society which rewards perfection in a pursuit and holds anything less in complete contempt. It would leave the way open for a new approach to elves as well.

 

EDIT: just thinking of a way to incorporate daemons into this faction it would be quite easy to create a society of elves so filled with hubris at the defeat of their ancient enemy that they believe they have tamed her daemons. Perhaps even have the old body of Slaanesh locked away in a monument in one of their cities

EDIT EDIT: two more thoughts on the subject

Firstly it would be very likely for this society to be built upon slaves and sacrifice. Those who do not excel in their field would be treated like chattel with no mercy or sympathy. Similarly I can see such a society regularly sacrificing failures to a god or god's, all Slaanesh in disguise, in public rituals.

Secondly and somewhat related, I think this would link in well to why her traditional followers have been unable to find her. Perhaps she is content to wait hidden and supposedly defeated, not attracting the ire of her more powerful brothers and all the while growing fat off Aelven excess, arogance, and sacrifice.

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2 hours ago, BaldoBeardo said:


The Wolverine principle. No matter how many people he dispatches with his claws, the only blood you ever see on him is his.

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Well, it was around before that :). As mentioned He-Man started the trend and debate about skulls as a decorative thing for younger audiences. Not many artists where bothered by it beforehand which caused a whole still in the comic industry in the 70's I believe? I am no expert on that! So google if you want to know more.

The moral is that it's currently accepted (by American standards) to have skulls be PG 13, even blood can be shown. What can't be shown is the decapitation or physical hurting of characters, even in illustrations, by that norm. World of Warcraft works with the same principle. GW just adapted WFB and logically so, their likely biggest audience simply said isn't 18+ but instead boys and males from 13+. This isn't to say that these all play the game but they and their parents certainly buy it. 

Comics can go in different routes also but the downside of that is that the mayority of income for comics doesn't come out of comics but instead the merchandise, toys, tshirts movies, you name it.

1 hour ago, KHHaunts said:

 

I do like the carnival/Masqurade idea. since an army of beautiful people would work perhaps ones who are worshiping perfection with ornmentation and masks. Game of thrones sons of the harpy come to mind but more roman esque with some bling.

 

Based on the lake of Aleves and the whole suggestion that morathis is involved i wouldnt be surprised if the whole "mortal" aspect of the army gives humans a miss and goes straight on to aelves.

OR

has humans as the lowest tier with Aelves making up the elite.

So something like this:

Thanks! I really like your idea aswell! Granted I GW made the sketch for it ages ago. 40K Slaanesh always was better targeted at a larger audience. Noise, cultist and mind control are less of a hot debate as sex, gender and subjects related to that, this has always been the case :).

Dark Roman cultists that do not appear evil fit Slaanesh very well, as him returning will unlikely put him at full power again. By mind control, music and playing with emotions Slaanesh could very well find new folowers, all in a package much more friendly to a larger audience. 

What I don't think is that GW will blend Dark Elves with Slaanesh again. I fully expect Dark Elves to become 'Pirates' and 'Witches'. With a fraction of them being focused on Lizards and piracy with sky-ships and the other as actual Blood Witches, followers of Khaine, who will be seperated from Khorne aswell since he cares for Blood and Magic, instead of Skulls and Blood. In fact I wouldn't even be suprised if GW made these Gods duke it out also. 

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Well, every Chaos god may end up with different mortal archetype, with Khorne being marauder-like humans, Nurgle somewhat ogreish and Tzeentch's beastmen.

I think Slaanesh mortals may end up being elf-based to continue the trend.

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18 minutes ago, Kyriakin said:

Well, every Chaos god may end up with different mortal archetype, with Khorne being marauder-like humans, Nurgle somewhat ogreish and Tzeentch's beastmen.

I think Slaanesh mortals may end up being elf-based to continue the trend.

There is one prime reason as to why this is unlikely to happen, all Aelves are in Order. 

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4 minutes ago, VBS said:

^they could.... introduce non-order elves? Wouldn't be the first time they team up with chaos.

Could, but why would they? They are trying to split Slaanesh out of Dark Eldar aswell so I really don't see them adding Slaanesh to Aelves again in Age of Sigmar.

In reality I do think Slaanesh will eventually return but somewhere down the line... WAY down the line. The moment they will though I expect him to be reintroduced in the lore as part of influencing (as always) humans from Order, but in that case I'm thinking more something that used to be alligned to Stormcasts, hence the Dark Roman vibe Sigvald give us is something I think would work out really well as a Cultist tribe that is enrooted within Order.

All in all I think GW will draw more parralels to 40K for obvious reasons, leading to Slaanesh likely revolving more around sound and mind control soon and much less the lustful Aelven aspects.


For Dark Elves I believe that Daughters of Khaine and Order Serpentis will be two factions they'll blend and expand upon. Much the same applies for Chaos very likely dropping larger parts from Slaves to Darkness eventually and add some parts to Everchosen to have the "Chaos Undivided" army. 

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