Let's chat : Blades of Khorne!

[Xasz]

7 minutes ago, Ollie Grimwood said:

How did she work out for you? 

Okay-ish.

She's easy to hide but I still tend move her out of cover too early.

If you roll better than me, her damage is potentially scary (same as BT axe) and she is uniquely fast for khorne.

I either hide her for an assassination or trade her for a key unit early in the game.

[gertat]

This is a list I would think fits my playstyle at the moment (even though Im not sure about the second artefact - A’rgath

Allegiance: Khorne

Leaders
Wrath Of Khorne Bloodthirster (330)
- General
- Trait: Slaughterborn  
- Artefact: A'rgath the King of Blades  
Bloodsecrator (120)
Slaughterpriest (100)
- Artefact: The Brazen Rune  
- Blood Blessing: Killing Frenzy
Slaughterpriest (100)
- Blood Blessing: Killing Frenzy
Bloodstoker (80)

Battleline
30 x Bloodletters (270)
30 x Bloodletters (270)
5 x Blood Warriors (100)
- Goreaxes
10 x Bloodreavers (70)
- Reaver Blades
10 x Bloodreavers (70)
- Reaver Blades
10 x Bloodreavers (70)
- Reaver Blades

Units
1 x Khorgoraths (80)
1 x Khorgoraths (80)
1 x Khorgoraths (80)

Battalions
Gore Pilgrims (180)

Reinforcement Points (0)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Allies: 0 / 400
 

Hope the opponent lets you start because he/she wants the double turn

- Plant the banner and keep the Slaughterpriests close to get the extra inches

- Charge across the field first turn with 30 Bloodletters with 2 attacks and +2 to hit and Reroll wound rolls of 1. Before the opponent can trigger any effects or buffs

- Do the same on turn 2 with the next 30 Bloodletters

 

During this you slowly move up the field with the rest and attack in the wake of the Bloodletters and let the Bloodteavers take objectives.

Any thoughts

[Pompe]

I saw an interesting battle report (2k vs Skaven Skryre) the other day where the Khorne player utilized double Stokers, WoK Thirster and the Talisman of Burning blood for a +8 run and charge. That pretty much guarantees a charge on turn one with the letters.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NsKHlmIIB4Q

 

[RuneBrush]

3 hours ago, Killax said:

On a sidenote I was wondering if people would like the Khorne Tactica in a seperate topic, here and/or per unit or all at once?  

I vote for separate - means we can keep this thread with a very generalised chat.  Not sure if there's a post limit either, you might need to do it "grouped" - could do battleline, leaders, other etc or split into Bloodbound, Daemon, Mortal

[Killax]

6 minutes ago, RuneBrush said:

I vote for separate - means we can keep this thread with a very generalised chat.  Not sure if there's a post limit either, you might need to do it "grouped" - could do battleline, leaders, other etc or split into Bloodbound, Daemon, Mortal

Thanks! Yeah Ill go for the Bloodbound, Daemon and Mortal (Slaves to Darkness) route, though also cover how well piece from Bloodbound for example work with Daemons and vice versa.

@gertat list looks solid, Id advice using the Immense Power with Bloodthirster and in this case consider Mark of the Slayer first with 3 Bloodletter units Id highly recommend The Crimson Crown instead.

Cheers,

[Killax]

1 hour ago, Pompe said:

I saw an interesting battle report (2k vs Skaven Skryre) the other day where the Khorne player utilized double Stokers, WoK Thirster and the Talisman of Burning blood for a +8 run and charge. That pretty much guarantees a charge on turn one with the letters.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NsKHlmIIB4Q

 

Yep thats WoK BTs prime advantage in a Nutshell and a reason why Murderhost remained extremely strong.

[jazman84]

12 hours ago, Xasz said:

Okay-ish.

She's easy to hide but I still tend move her out of cover too early.

If you roll better than me, her damage is potentially scary (same as BT axe) and she is uniquely fast for khorne.

I either hide her for an assassination or trade her for a key unit early in the game.

I try to squeeze her into any list I can. She is so cheap for what she can do.

I've had her slay a Spirit of Durthu and Drycha in a battle after buffing her up.

I also had her be deleted off the board when I made some foolish moves against the same player and she was caught without buffs and no favor from the dice-gods...

[jazman84]

11 hours ago, Killax said:

Thanks! Yeah Ill go for the Bloodbound, Daemon and Mortal (Slaves to Darkness) route, though also cover how well piece from Bloodbound for example work with Daemons and vice versa.

Looking forward to it! 

[kozokus]

Haven't seen any DP of Khorne anywhere, does someone have something good to say about them? He may have some comparaison with Valkia but this is mostly a wound vs save question i think.

[Xasz]

18 minutes ago, kozokus said:

Haven't seen any DP of Khorne anywhere, does someone have something good to say about them? He may have some comparaison with Valkia but this is mostly a wound vs save question i think.

Less damage output, larger footprint, bigger target,  20 points more expensive.

Only thing going for him, is his slightly higher survivability and the daemonen keyword.

[Killax]

1 hour ago, kozokus said:

Haven't seen any DP of Khorne anywhere, does someone have something good to say about them? He may have some comparaison with Valkia but this is mostly a wound vs save question i think.

It's somewhere back on page 20-30... I think  .... The Daemon Prince can be a really good supportive and flanking piece, actually very different to Valkia as she is much more designed to thake out smaller key supportive Heroes actually. A Daemon Prince with either The Crimson Crown or Mark of the Slayer can most certainly be the boost you want at any specific place. Being the bigger model is offcourse a downside.

In essence I have no issue whatsoever with running a Daemon Prince but the fact does remain that the largest power leverage for Khorne comes from it's Infantry and the Daemon Prince doesn't do too much for it unless we're talking about multiple units Bloodletters. So if your going heavy on them he can certainly be a very interesting piece to thake.

The other additional benifit he also creates is that he can be a piece used to deny areas that would otherwise lead to your key units being charged  though he is a little expensive for that use...

 

[Ollie Grimwood]

I’d not considered a DP before nice set of stat.  Might be a help addition for a Bloodbound/mortals army if you fancy a more powerful hero but don’t want to shell out for a Bloodthirster. Not quite a tough as a Lord on Jugger but more mobile and choppy. 

[Killax]

14 minutes ago, Ollie Grimwood said:

I’d not considered a DP before nice set of stat.  Might be a help addition for a Bloodbound/mortals army if you fancy a more powerful hero but don’t want to shell out for a Bloodthirster. 

I wouldn't have either if I didn't had multiple of them for 40k  It worked out decently well with GH2016 and still think they would work out well enough, even moreso because functionally speaking Bloodletters have been buffed with their cost decrease and the fast multitude of them opens points to characters like it. As we speak the focus went back to a WoK Bloodthirster though because he too recieved a cost decrease and generally speaking a Monster General awnser like him (like Wrathmongers) have gained an additional functionality within the game. As the more common the Monster General shows up the more functional his and Wrathmonger abilities become. 

The added meta advantage we too can play into is that the sight of a Death Star usually works into our advantage aswell, with MSU tactics it's much easier to punish Bloodletters by simply feeding them small units where they massively overkill into. Those days are slowely becomming less common and overall this is a great advantage we too should play into. What I mean with this is that Bloodletters where always "better" when run in 30 and the bonus we recieved in running those units isn't just comming from the 30 point discount  bigger units of Bloodletters like fighting bigger other units.

In general GH2017 brought a massive ammount of changes and we only slowly see the effects of it comming. All the while Facehammer GT was won with an army that contains said Monster General and Deathstar, an army I'd love to play against with Khorne. At the same time the Lord of Change becomes all the more common and for this reason too the use of Auto-dispell, Brazen Rune, The Crimson Crown and Mark of the Slayer has become more important as ever.

Odd as it might sound, if I'd consider eithe Valkia or Daemon Prince right now I'd actually favour the Daemon Prince over her. As above I don't really know why Valkia increased in price but I do know that I prefer The Crimson Crown or Mark of the Slayer over The Gaze of Khorne.
Slaupnir for certain is nice but it very much makes her a 'fire and forget' Hero that due to Monster General populairity actually has less targets she can hunt down as before in commonly expected 'meta lists'.  

[Ollie Grimwood]

@Killax You’re very disciplined in your command traits/artifact sellection  if I played daemons I don’t think I’d be able to resist the hilarious immense power + deathdealer combination ?. Not the most tactical but I’d love the carnage. 

[Killax]

11 minutes ago, Ollie Grimwood said:

@Killax You’re very disciplined in your command traits/artifact sellection  if I played daemons I don’t think I’d be able to resist the hilarious immense power + deathdealer combination ?. Not the most tactical but I’d love the carnage. 

Massive carnage from a single model is awesome but the cool factor is that usually you can get more out of the 8" buffs on that base. It's not rare to buff 3 to 4 units, including himself. The thing is that both The Crimson Crown and Mark of the Slayer also apply to him.
I personally love Immense Power aswell and do believe it's the best Command Trait for a Bloodthirster General, however I also believe that to optimize a Bloodthirsters use (especially WoK) you want to use it against key priority larger targets where it's high damage output is more required.

In my opinion Bloodletters, Blood Warriors or even Bloodreavers do an excellent job in removing oppossing Infantry and that's really why in GH2016 the use of Bloodthirsters in many ways also more limited, the game itself revolved around more smaller infantry units, more battalions and smaller heroes as it is now. With GH2017 however the need and/or constructions of the 'super death star' can be very rewarding. To the point where giving up 20-ish Bloodletters in order to get a Bloodthirster to it's key targets can certainly be worth it, or at least in my opinion.

One of the easiest things to do is assume and judge Khorne units by functionality in the same sort of way, while oddly enough we have come to accept that the Bloodsecrator in particular doesn't work that way. For me Bloodthirsters are first and foremost essential to use against key targets, this does often mean that they are used not as pawns but rather a knight or even queen in chess terms. The simple fact that it flies and is a massive scare factor should be optimized, not given away at first sight.

Now for sure certain armies still thake the ranged offense that can deal with a Bloodthirster  these cases have become rarer due to cost increases, but here giving him away is still a logical choice. However in many games it's a specialist unit that needs to be played and used against other 'specialist' units. E.g. if your Wrathmongers or Bloodthirster is suddenly fighting chaff, it's very likely a mistake has been made in deployment and/or first turn movements.

[kozokus]

2 hours ago, Killax said:

It's somewhere back on page 20-30... I think  ..

Indeed X)

Thanks for the answers. My point was to try to build a Khorne Power List™ at the 1200 point range (where my next tournament is) but i am struggling to find a cheese or at least some cool strategy. I was toying with the idea of the DP, but am reluctant to field a 160 pt hero with a 4+save and am not sure a a BT would be appropriate. I also toyed with the idea of Gore pilgrim but 180 points istoo much at that range.The best i could do was simply massing Bwarriors and SkullReapers. (And i wanted to avoid playin my Vanguard Wing again, even if it is probably my best idea).

[Killax]

Just now, kozokus said:

Indeed X)

Thanks for the answers. My point was to try to build a Khorne Power List™ at the 1200 point range (where my next tournament is) but i am struggling to find a cheese or at least some cool strategy. I was toying with the idea of the DP, but am reluctant to field a 160 pt hero with a 4+save and am not sure a a BT would be appropriate. I also toyed with the idea of Gore pilgrim but 180 points istoo much at that range.The best i could do was simply massing Bwarriors and SkullReapers. (And i wanted to avoid playin my Vanguard Wing again, even if it is probably my best idea).

If you want to present a Deathstar always consider Wrathmongers.

Perhaps it's because I play different systems but one way to ensure Bloodletters + Wrathmongers become a Deathstar is by "bubble-wrapping" Wrathmongers with "3 inch" of Bloodletters. What you essentially can end up with is a U-form of 30 Bloodletters with 5 Wrathmongers in the center.

When you apply this unit in this form your opponent basically is in for a wild ride, as you have the means to punish both Infantry and Monsters, basically anything that decides to push their luck against it. In certain cases opponents will try and kill Bloodletters with their heavier hitters and if they succeed feel free to get the Wrathmongers in there and leave with the Bloodletters.

...The tactica write up is quite long but this part is indeed an important part of creating "Death stars", units that are basically 'anti-matter'  . Don't feel bad when not using Battalions, as before Gore Pilgrims and Murderhost are great for 2K but I totally understand that for 1K they are very hard to use. I've also come to a point where I'm considering not using one at all and use two of the Bloodletters + Wrathmonger Death stars.

[Twitch of Izalith]

Am I missing the point with Bloodcrushers or are they not very good for the cost?

They have less wounds and less attacks for 20 points more than the mighty skull crushers. The mortal wound output won't count for much with 1 attack each. Bravery 10 is awesome and I suppose the 1 in 6 chance to get models back is cool when you roll battleshock too but I think the mortal unit is still better?

 

[Fireymonkeyboy]

On a completely unrelated note, can we get a conversation going about what allies to take, and why?  

Leaving aside narrative considerations for a moment (which can justify just about any inclusion, or prohibit it), what are some good ally options, where the loss of synergy is compensated for by new capabilities etc.?  Some obvious ones to me were allied wizards, of one stripe or another (summoning, arcane shield, etc.), and shooting units.  

What got me thinking about this was that a) I love the beastmen models, b) am looking for a way to fit them in, and c) can't find a way to justify it without making my army weaker (and I don't play a competitively optimized list as it is).

What would people take, why, and what makes it worth giving up more sweet Khorny synergy?

FMB

[Centurio]

I've been using ungor raiders , mainly for their pre game move and because I like the beastmen models.

Edit:  And people hate my "goats" so I guess they can't be all that bad.

[Ollie Grimwood]

32 minutes ago, Twitch of Izalith said:

Am I missing the point with Bloodcrushers or are they not very good for the cost?

They have less wounds and less attacks for 20 points more than the mighty skull crushers. The mortal wound output won't count for much with 1 attack each. Bravery 10 is awesome and I suppose the 1 in 6 chance to get models back is cool when you roll battleshock too but I think the mortal unit is still better?

 

I think you pay a lot for the decapitating blow and less wounds I’d agree Skullchrushers are better 

[Praecautus]

So my local store has a path to glory coming up, based on what I have so far what would you take - I am thinking mortal khorne due to what I have 

Mighty lord of khorne 

Slaughter priest x2

Blood secrator

Blood stoker

Exalted deathbringer 

20 Blood warriors (10 fists, 10 double axes)

25 Blood reavers

5 wrath mongers

5 skull reapers

3 khorgorath

3 skull crushers

Gorebeast chariot

 

I was thinking 

Mighty lord

Blood secrator

as many blood warriors as I can take

 

opponents will be a mix of anything from kharadron to death and it is friendly more than competitive.

[Fireymonkeyboy]

Speed can be critical in many of the PtG scenarios, so something that either moves quickly, or can make other things move (like a Slaughterpriest), or both, is likely of use.

FMB

[Killax]

1 hour ago, Fireymonkeyboy said:

What got me thinking about this was that a) I love the beastmen models, b) am looking for a way to fit them in, and c) can't find a way to justify it without making my army weaker (and I don't play a competitively optimized list as it is).

What would people take, why, and what makes it worth giving up more sweet Khorny synergy?

FMB

Id always say pick what you want, between Daemons, Bloodbound and Slaves to Darkness Ive never felt Khorne need anything in addition but add as much Beastmen as you want really

Ungor Raiders or Cygirs provide some possible cool ranged attacks you could add Chaos, Nurgle or Tzeentch Wizards but typically speaking we do have Slaughterpriests covering similar grounds with Gore Pilgrims. In the same vein a WoK BT is a very cool Hero sniper...

But try as you like really. Its just that I feel for us in particular Allies arnt required. Slaves add alternatives often not covered in this topic. Think Marauder Horseman or Chariots for cheap alternatives.

[Keldaur]

So thanks to the tips, the last weeks i was able to collect a lot of skulls for khorne (stormcasts, kharadron, nurgle, every skull is welcome), now i am on my way to mix things up with some daemons, mostly because i want to play a big baddie, and i have one list but two variations.

Allegiance: Chaos

Leaders
Wrath Of Khorne Bloodthirster (330)
- General
- Trait: Immense Power 
- Artefact: Mark of the slayer 
Bloodstoker (80)

Battleline
30 x Bloodletters (270)
10 x Bloodreavers (70)
- Meatripper Axes
10 x Bloodreavers (70)
- Meatripper Axes

Units
1 x Khorgoraths (80)
1 x Khorgoraths (80)

Reinforcement Points (0)

 

Khorgoraths and bloodreavers work as one unit, they are disposable as screens (specially for the khorgoraths), but they will mostly dedicated to get objectives.

And the second list

 

Leaders
Wrath Of Khorne Bloodthirster (330)
- General
- Trait: Immense Power 
- Artefact: Mark of the slayer 
Bloodstoker (80)

Battleline
30 x Bloodletters (270)
10 x Bloodreavers (70)
- Meatripper Axes
10 x Bloodreavers (70)
- Meatripper Axes

Units
5 x Wrathmongers (180)

Reinforcement Points (0)

Total: 1000 / 1000

Wrathmongers can be useful so bloodreavers are more relevant and allow me to hunt some monster. In one side i like to have a third killy unit (khorgoraths are killy yes, but it's not the same), but in the other hand i don't like so much losing the khorgoraths to dispute different objectives in some missions. Oh well.