The 2024 Pricing Update Topic

[Gaz Taylor]

Right, in order to keep the Rumour Thread on topic, here is a topic for you to discuss about the recent announcement from GW about their prices. Just remember keep it to the rules. If it's something you aren't happy about, keep it constructive please!!!

The announcement can be found here - https://www.warhammer-community.com/2024/05/07/2024-pricing-update/

 

My two pence....

Price increases always suck, especially when everything else is going up. It's even more annoying when the company doing it still seem to be making record profits. But this is something they have been doing for years and I have been involved with GW games for nearly 30 years. Which means I'm not suddenly going to throw all my toys in the bin and go cold turkey on GW stuff. 

But, I'll just carry on with what I've been doing as I've been getting older and doing all that stuff as you get older (like family and responsible job). Which means I'll just buy less GW stuff and maybe look at other things. I'm already dabbling in Warmaster (tournament this weekend!  ) and I'll probably play more skirmish level games, get back to Blood Bowl and from an Age of Sigmar point of view, I'll probably focus on Spearhead.

So basically, it means I'll spend less on GW and I might look at other things. This might change but that's how hobbies grow for people. It's a hobby and something you spend time and money enjoying. Try and enjoy your hobby and it's ok to not spend as much on GW stuff.

PS for anybody getting really angry about this - in all the "noise" at the moment, you will get content creators voicing their opinions. That's fine but remember if you are getting angry due to stuff they are saying, take a moment and remember that their job is to get you watching/reading/interacting with their stuff. 

[Big Kim Woof-Woof]

If you're spending, I dunno, let's say $500 a year on Warhammer stuff, I'll bet you can afford to spend $550 a year. If you're that worried about spending too much money, maybe you've picked the wrong hobby. 

Sorry if that sounds a bit callous... but is there really much point in getting into a lather about something that's an unavoidable truth? 

[MitGas]

I‘m much more worried about the rising prices in rent, energy, food and other stuff than GW minis. What‘s the worst case scenario there? You buy less stuff or have to draw the line somewhere and not collect multiple factions. It sucks but it‘s not like 99,9% of collectors don‘t have a pile of shame anyways. 😅
 

GWs stuff is definitely overpriced however but that‘s veeeery old news. I understand the price hike now, with everything becoming more expensive, they have to react to those costs as well - Europe is in a very bad spot currently in that regard. I didn‘t understand various other price hikes in the past however, when it was - sorry for saying it bluntly - all about greed.  
 

And they should pay their talent better. Yes, it‘s cool to work for GW if you‘re into it but frankly you shouldn‘t take a vow of poverty to do so.
 

Oh and I‘ll add this snarky meme I‘ve found again, I guess it kinda fits here:

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 8 by Gaz Taylor
meme removed

[Gaz Taylor]

+++ Mod Hat On +++

@MitGas - Don't post that meme please. I can see the humour but it does take away the original message and we had reports from the rumour thread where you posted it as well (it has been removed). This forum is for everybody.

[Aeryenn]

That meme had probably the greatest added value to this forum in recent days 😥

[Big Kim Woof-Woof]

54 minutes ago, MitGas said:

And they should pay their talent better. Yes, it‘s cool to work for GW if you‘re into it but frankly you shouldn‘t take a vow of poverty to do so.
 

Indeed, right down to their store staff. I used to work in retail, and once considered applying for a store manager role at GW. The money was dreadful, substantially less than other chain stores (that's here in Australia, no idea what the story is elsewhere).

[MitGas]

3 minutes ago, Big Kim Woof-Woof said:

Indeed, right down to their store staff. I used to work in retail, and once considered applying for a store manager role at GW. The money was dreadful, substantially less than other chain stores (that's here in Australia, no idea what the story is elsewhere).

Yeah, a lot of companies that know people find them, their product or the idea to work for/with them cool absolutely exploit that fact. One of my favorite examples are the big advertising agencies, where the talent gets paid pretty much the absolute minimum (despite working way longer hours than they should) and only a select few ever manage to earn enough for a comfortable life. Other fields, like lawyers, are expected to work a lot for basically nothing in the first few years of their career but at least later on they get to earn well (although they then charge waaaay too much for their work, like 500 bucks for a single letter, what the flying goblin, that's wrong too).

A long time ago, the boss perhaps earned 5 times what a normal employee would get but nowadays it's often around 15+ times as much... I don't wanna sound like a communist, I'm far from that, but the hyper-capitalism that's going on is doomed to fail as well and the absolute incompetence of our politicians (all of them) to fix these problems paints a scary picture of the future. But I'm starting to rant and go off-topic, excuse me. 

[Flippy]

1 hour ago, MitGas said:

A long time ago, the boss perhaps earned 5 times what a normal employee would get but nowadays it's often around 15+ times as much... I don't wanna sound like a communist, I'm far from that, but the hyper-capitalism that's going on is doomed to fail as well and the absolute incompetence of our politicians (all of them) to fix these problems paints a scary picture of the future. But I'm starting to rant and go off-topic, excuse me. 

Your gut feeling is very correct, but the data is not. CEOs Get Paid Too Much, According to Pretty Much Everyone in the World (hbr.org). In the US, people say that CEOs should earn approx. 7 times as much as workers and thin that they earn 30 times as much. The reality is they earn 300 as much. Pointing this out has nothing to do with "communism".

 

[Kempak]

4 hours ago, Big Kim Woof-Woof said:

If you're spending, I dunno, let's say $500 a year on Warhammer stuff, I'll bet you can afford to spend $550 a year. If you're that worried about spending too much money, maybe you've picked the wrong hobby. 

Sorry if that sounds a bit callous... but is there really much point in getting into a lather about something that's an unavoidable truth? 

I spend about £40-£100 a month these days on Warhammer, maybe a little more if there's a big release. You're correct; the price increase won't affect me too much, maybe £5-£20 more, but it's just the principle at this point.

Stormbringer shows what they could really sell it for, even though that has raised in price which has soured my taste.

Price hikes aren't just a GW thing anymore. Everywhere I look, DLC in games is now £20, whereas a couple of years ago it was like £12. I understand rising costs, etc., but with their profit margins, they could have just held off for one year.

They must be getting a nice amount from their Amazon deal too.

I don't know, it's more like inflation fatigue now. I'm sure what I spend is a drop in the ocean, but maybe this is just what I needed to stop the purchases and just finish my war against the grey.

 

Edited May 8 by Kempak

[MitGas]

46 minutes ago, Flippy said:

Your gut feeling is very correct, but the data is not. CEOs Get Paid Too Much, According to Pretty Much Everyone in the World (hbr.org). In the US, people say that CEOs should earn approx. 7 times as much as workers and thin that they earn 30 times as much. The reality is they earn 300 as much. Pointing this out has nothing to do with "communism".

 

Yeah, I went with 15+ as that feels like a realistic number for smaller/middle companies than GW to me but thanks for sharing your knowledge, much appreciated. 👍 Now I‘ll rage even harder. 😂 

[Satyrical Sophist]

32 minutes ago, Kempak said:

 

Stormbringer shows what they could really sell it for, even though that has raised in price which has soured my taste.

 

They definitely could charge less, but stormbringer isn’t a good data point on that. The cost to GW is heavily front loaded, design and mold costs as close to a fixed large cost (close to because I believe they do have to potentially replace molds that get used too much, which would be another cost). The price for models has to factor that in. Some things (like apparently Aventus Stormstrike) end up costing them money because they don’t sell enough to recoup the cost. The models in stormbringer have almost all been sold separately for awhile. I might be wrong about this, but I think the unique models are done on a more temporary mold that only works for a considerably shorter print run. 

 

The other thing is that companies frequently sell stuff at low or no profit in order to entice customers with that, and sell other items to them. Historical example would be bread and milk. 

[Gitzdee]

This hobby costs money but that doesnt add anything to the discussion because we are all already a part of the hobby in one way of another imho.

For me its about what a product is worth. Its getting harder and harder to justify a 40 euro purchase if it has just 3 models in it (looking at u Brute Wrekkaz/Ragere). Same with the tomes, for me 20 euro would be fine, maybe 25 for a bigger one. But i guess we will be spending a lot more 4th edition. Im really not going to drop 50 euros for a bit of paper i hardly use.

Another thing i really have a hard time supporting is paying so much money for minis and seeing how lacking warhammer+ content is and everything that is happening with amazon. Is seems like we are payjng top prices for failed investments from GW. Just let us pay less so i can actually affort some more minis. 

[MitGas]

1 hour ago, Gitzdee said:

This hobby costs money but that doesnt add anything to the discussion because we are all already a part of the hobby in one way of another imho.

For me its about what a product is worth. Its getting harder and harder to justify a 40 euro purchase if it has just 3 models in it (looking at u Brute Wrekkaz/Ragere). Same with the tomes, for me 20 euro would be fine, maybe 25 for a bigger one. But i guess we will be spending a lot more 4th edition. Im really not going to drop 50 euros for a bit of paper i hardly use.

Another thing i really have a hard time supporting is paying so much money for minis and seeing how lacking warhammer+ content is and everything that is happening with amazon. Is seems like we are payjng top prices for failed investments from GW. Just let us pay less so i can actually affort some more minis. 

Yeah, the worth of the product is one decent argument - I‘m still convinced that the two cheapest products are music and video games. Why? Because you can listen to some songs hundreds of times and play some video games for hundreds of hours. Then the cost would need to divided by those hours. Suddenly even an expensive game for let‘s say 100 bucks is dirt cheap entertainment. Going out is hella expensive in comparison per hour. 
 

A squad of GW minis costs as much as a cheaper video game at this point and is way cheaper to create. I know, two very different things and the markup is tame compared luxury watches or something but for someone new that thinks it‘s cool, the pricing is gonna raise more than just an eyebrow at this point already. 
 

I don‘t think having a warhammer army or two should ever feel like a luxury. We grownups can usually afford even higher prices IF we wanted to but what about kids? I started collecting as a 14 year old IIRC and it somehow worked with my pocket money and as gifts. Nowadays I‘m not so sure about that. 
 

I blame myself, wait no, I never take responsibility, for not immediately smelling a rat (sorry Skaven) with the introduction of spearheads! 😂😅

[Flippy]

1 hour ago, Gitzdee said:

This hobby costs money but that doesnt add anything to the discussion because we are all already a part of the hobby in one way of another imho.

For me its about what a product is worth. Its getting harder and harder to justify a 40 euro purchase if it has just 3 models in it (looking at u Brute Wrekkaz/Ragere). Same with the tomes, for me 20 euro would be fine, maybe 25 for a bigger one. But i guess we will be spending a lot more 4th edition. Im really not going to drop 50 euros for a bit of paper i hardly use.

Another thing i really have a hard time supporting is paying so much money for minis and seeing how lacking warhammer+ content is and everything that is happening with amazon. Is seems like we are payjng top prices for failed investments from GW. Just let us pay less so i can actually affort some more minis. 

As for the minis themselves - I think that the bigger boxes (Spearhead, Battleforce) have a good money / fun time ratio. A single Spearhead (or Combat Patrol) means at least a quarter of building and painting.

But the books... while I can afford them, it just makes no sense to buy (mostly) the same book every 3 years.

[pnkdth]

8 hours ago, Big Kim Woof-Woof said:

If you're spending, I dunno, let's say $500 a year on Warhammer stuff, I'll bet you can afford to spend $550 a year. If you're that worried about spending too much money, maybe you've picked the wrong hobby. 

Sorry if that sounds a bit callous... but is there really much point in getting into a lather about something that's an unavoidable truth? 

Weird flex but ok.

[Sarouan]

The easy reaction to this is saying "GW is doing it on purpose, they enjoy racketting more money from their customers". Big corporations are the enemy, after all. However, that doesn't change the fact that price increase everywhere as well, and not just in plastic toys anyone can live without : in things you really need to have just to live.

Sure, capitalism is to blame for search of profit, but that doesn't change the fact world situation is still in crisis and unlikely to stop for various reasons : climate change, ressources getting rarer, wars in central europa and middle east still risking of spreading, extremist ideas on the rise everywhere...prices will keep getting up for production as troubles keep piling all around the globe.

I'm not very optimistic on the future and I think price increase in GW products will soon be the least of our problems not so far away. But that's just my personnal point of view.

As for this in particular right now...yes, it sucks. I will clearly adjust my budget for it as well, but I'm indeed not going elsewhere because of that. Because the truth is...it's just a matter of time before all miniature sellers do adjust their prices as well because of sheer necessity. We're more vocal about GW because they're the easy target to hate / blame.

[Sarouan]

To be honest, even if GW became a communist / cooperative corporation, they would still need to increase prices on long term because of their own infrastructure. Their shops don't own the place they are in, most of the time it's rent : and it constantly goes up too. If you want to pay your employees fair and generous salaries, you have to give them a rise each year because of inflation : that increases the costs and will unavoidably get on the product prices as well. We have to say as well that the production itself does have a constantly increasing cost on climate : if they want to produce more, they have to open more factories. Producing plastic miniatures made from fossil fuel is unavoidably polluting and depleting finite ressources, no matter their efforts in making it as "green" as they can, and countries will tax that more as climate change problematic becomes more pressing (even though a lot of people still close their eyes on that, they can't close them forever as floods and droughts become insanely more and more common with the years passing on). Even a world with social justice will keep seeing costs increasing that'll need to be passed on something eventually...if some productions aren't completely closed for the "good of mankind" (who needs plastic soldiers if it's just killing the planet ?).

I really don't see how actually a miniature producer can't increase their prices constantly in this world, unless they want to be in the red or earn less. Even if they're the most customer friendly possible. Our hobby has a real taxing cost, and we'll be paying it one way or the other.

Edited May 9 by Sarouan

[The Lost Sigmarite]

My two cents on the pricing updates : I don't really care because I don't buy my Warhammer minis at MSRP prices now that I have a reliable 3rd party retailer that sells GW products at a -10% discount, and it's probably gonna make people buy even less at MSRP prices. Which leads me to say "never buy GW products at MSRP prices" but I think you already know that by now.

As for the price increase in itself ? Looks like greedflation to me. We were willing to understand why they increased prices a few years ago because of Brexit, but Brexit is over now and most importantly they're making record profits as we speak. They're just saying "everything's getting more expensive" so maybe the raw materials they bring to Lenton to turn into their products are getting more expensive, but they never confirm this. This is just murky guesswork. And most importantly, Warhammer was already expensive to begin with - but if it makes people more responsible and think twice before buying, then it's a L for GW, a W for us and I'm happy with it.

[JackStreicher]

On 5/8/2024 at 3:10 PM, Kempak said:

I spend about £40-£100 a month these days on Warhammer, maybe a little more if there's a big release. You're correct; the price increase won't affect me too much, maybe £5-£20 more, but it's just the principle at this point.

Stormbringer shows what they could really sell it for, even though that has raised in price which has soured my taste.

Price hikes aren't just a GW thing anymore. Everywhere I look, DLC in games is now £20, whereas a couple of years ago it was like £12. I understand rising costs, etc., but with their profit margins, they could have just held off for one year.

They must be getting a nice amount from their Amazon deal too.

I don't know, it's more like inflation fatigue now. I'm sure what I spend is a drop in the ocean, but maybe this is just what I needed to stop the purchases and just finish my war against the grey.

 

Robert Reich has some nice grounded data and videos on this. It’s in fact corporate greed which in turn causes the vast part of inflation as well

I don’t mind the price hike, it’s a GW habit by now (remember covid? They thanked us for their best business year in history. Then a few weeks later cranked the prices up).

GW usually increases prices to stay atop of inflation, while that might be good for them it annoys people since wages don’t go up. 
(I have to look the data source up: since ~2000 Germans gradually lost 60% of their purchasing power due to wages not at all keeping up with inflation)

 

Also never buy directly from them (if possible) 

 

Edited May 9 by JackStreicher

[pnkdth]

25 minutes ago, The Lost Sigmarite said:

My two cents on the pricing updates : I don't really care because I don't buy my Warhammer minis at MSRP prices now that I have a reliable 3rd party retailer that sells GW products at a -10% discount, and it's probably gonna make people buy even less at MSRP prices. Which leads me to say "never buy GW products at MSRP prices" but I think you already know that by now.

As for the price increase in itself ? Looks like greedflation to me. We were willing to understand why they increased prices a few years ago because of Brexit, but Brexit is over now and most importantly they're making record profits as we speak. They're just saying "everything's getting more expensive" so maybe the raw materials they bring to Lenton to turn into their products are getting more expensive, but they never confirm this. This is just murky guesswork. And most importantly, Warhammer was already expensive to begin with - but if it makes people more responsible and think twice before buying, then it's a L for GW, a W for us and I'm happy with it.

That's pretty much my take as well. Announcing record profits and then turn around saying, "sorry peeps, we gotta raise the prices again", smells wrong.

Reminds me how video games have gone off the deep end (or far beyond the deep end) and testing just how much they can get away with before people snap. I am sure GW have done their homework on this one and decided that the customer they might lose is more than compensated by big spenders (or the less charitable term 'whales'). Personally, I am already almost out the door as I no longer have an AoS army (just some 40k stuff I'm way too sentimental about to get rid of - one overpriced army game is enough lol).

I do not "hate" GW though but capitalism swings both ways and one way the customer can signal to companies they've had enough to walk away. It would have been a wholly different story if price actually reflected premium rules, premiums apps, and an updated rules sharing methodology but that's another can of worms.

Edited May 9 by pnkdth

[Cambyses]

4 hours ago, Sarouan said:

To be honest, even if GW became a communist / cooperative corporation, they would still need to increase prices on long term because of their own infrastructure. Their shops don't own the place they are in, most of the time it's rent : and it constantly goes up too. If you want to pay your employees fair and generous salaries, you have to give them a rise each year because of inflation : that increases the costs and will unavoidably get on the product prices as well. We have to say as well that the production itself does have a constantly increasing cost on climate : if they want to produce more, they have to open more factories. Producing plastic miniatures made from fossil fuel is unavoidably polluting and depleting finite ressources, no matter their efforts in making it as "green" as they can, and countries will tax that more as climate change problematic becomes more pressing (even though a lot of people still close their eyes on that, they can't close them forever as floods and droughts become insanely more and more common with the years passing on). Even a world with social justice will keep seeing costs increasing that'll need to be passed on something eventually...if some productions aren't completely closed for the "good of mankind" (who needs plastic soldiers if it's just killing the planet ?).

I really don't see how actually a miniature producer can't increase their prices constantly in this world, unless they want to be in the red or earn less. Even if they're the most customer friendly possible. Our hobby has a real taxing cost, and we'll be paying it one way or the other.

GW is a big boy company and don't need you to white knight for it, and I don't need a patronizing lecture on high school microeconomics.

 

Even taking your own view to discuss this in an economic angle only, the consumer as an economic actor should ultimately dictate the actions of the company - if prices are too high, then the company should either find an avenue to lower prices or fail due to competition. GW can only do these YoY increases due to the near-monopoly they have in the tabletop wargaming space, and painting this practice as inevitable is harmful to your own interests as consumers in this sector.

[Sarouan]

2 hours ago, Cambyses said:

GW is a big boy company and don't need you to white knight for it, and I don't need a patronizing lecture on high school microeconomics.

 

Even taking your own view to discuss this in an economic angle only, the consumer as an economic actor should ultimately dictate the actions of the company - if prices are too high, then the company should either find an avenue to lower prices or fail due to competition. GW can only do these YoY increases due to the near-monopoly they have in the tabletop wargaming space, and painting this practice as inevitable is harmful to your own interests as consumers in this sector.

I'm not white knight'ing. I just understand the world is more complex than what you try to paint. Going full pro consumer won't solve all problems and will actually create others - because consumers don't necessarily care about everything that matters on their product and the costs to make it,

But feel free to believe whatever comforts you the best.

Edited May 9 by Sarouan

[EccentricCircle]

Hmm, getting back into historical wargaming sure is looking tempting. I never played 3e AoS, i figured I'd wait for 4e and see how i felt then. Still been collecting my armies, but at this point I've pretty much finished my AoS collection for now. I just want a few more of the new Seraphon and then I've pretty much got multiple full armies in various states of building and painting to be going on with. So no need to start a new warhammer project just for the sake of it. I've been eying some ancient Egyptians from Perry miniatures for a while, so I might dive back i to that for the next year or two and see what GW is doing when I check in again!

[Gitzdee]

1 hour ago, EccentricCircle said:

Hmm, getting back into historical wargaming sure is looking tempting. I never played 3e AoS, i figured I'd wait for 4e and see how i felt then. Still been collecting my armies, but at this point I've pretty much finished my AoS collection for now. I just want a few more of the new Seraphon and then I've pretty much got multiple full armies in various states of building and painting to be going on with. So no need to start a new warhammer project just for the sake of it. I've been eying some ancient Egyptians from Perry miniatures for a while, so I might dive back i to that for the next year or two and see what GW is doing when I check in again!

Im thinking the same. I want to at least try 4th and it seems like we can with free index rules. I can recommend looking into Warcry if u havent already. Fun small quick game u can try and the rules are still free downloads. Frostgrave could also be great if u already have a good collection of minis. No need to buy any. Both games let u build warbands which is kinda fun to gather and put together. Frostgrave can be played by just buying a single book that isnt even that expensive (i think it was around 20 euros when i bought it).

[EccentricCircle]

7 hours ago, Gitzdee said:

Im thinking the same. I want to at least try 4th and it seems like we can with free index rules. I can recommend looking into Warcry if u havent already. Fun small quick game u can try and the rules are still free downloads. Frostgrave could also be great if u already have a good collection of minis. No need to buy any. Both games let u build warbands which is kinda fun to gather and put together. Frostgrave can be played by just buying a single book that isnt even that expensive (i think it was around 20 euros when i bought it).

Great advice. Yeah, warcry is the main game I've been playing this year. I'm more of a skirmish player than a mass battle one, and like narratives rather than competitive.  So it's nice to be able to do lots of quick games in a session, and really tell a story. i keep meaning to post the battle report from my last warcry campaign actually. I haven't even scratched the surface of the warbands I can build from my models, so lots of potetial there without spending any money. 

We got really into x-grave games a couple of years ago and played most of them, but it's been a while since I dusted off the book. As you say the warband options there are even more varied than warcry. 

We're also planning a full tilt tournament later in the summer and busy painting knights for that so no shortage of options even ignoring the GW hype cycle!