AoS Cities of Sigmar Battletome 2023 Discussion

[Lightbox]

Am I going crazy or in the Command Corps does the Great Herald not get -any- attacks? He doesn't seem to have a weapon profile.

Also what base sizes do people reckon the corps are on? I'm guessing 32 for arch knight and 40 for soul shepard (trying to kitbash my own so working out what sizes needed would be useful)

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

21 minutes ago, Lightbox said:

Am I going crazy or in the Command Corps does the Great Herald not get -any- attacks? He doesn't seem to have a weapon profile.

Also what base sizes do people reckon the corps are on? I'm guessing 32 for arch knight and 40 for soul shepard (trying to kitbash my own so working out what sizes needed would be useful)

He really doesn't seem to have any weapons. It could be an error, though, might be worth alerting the FAQ team to it.

For bases, it's really hard to tell. I would not build permanent bases for proxies yet: There is always a chance that something you though would be a 25mm turns to be a 28 or 32.

Guessing for temporary bases: Everyone on 32s except soul shepard on 40.

[Myrdin]

25 minutes ago, Lightbox said:

Am I going crazy or in the Command Corps does the Great Herald not get -any- attacks? He doesn't seem to have a weapon profile.

Also what base sizes do people reckon the corps are on? I'm guessing 32 for arch knight and 40 for soul shepard (trying to kitbash my own so working out what sizes needed would be useful)

If we consider that many of the new human infantry type characters are on 32mm, I think its safe to assume the 32mm for most of them and 40mm for the shepard. But yeah I would wait with that. Just as I am already waiting for the Fussiliers... srsly GW should start adding base sizes to the pitched profile page at the end of the book or somewhere on the Warscroll itself.

For the Herald I think its one of the many oversights, and probably should be reported to the FAQ team.

[Doko]

i sent this,feel free to copy it and send it to the faq team if you want.

 

page 134, the warscroll "freeguild command corps",havent weapon option for the Great Herald and need a faq to give him a weapon

 

 

 

page 143, the warscroll of the unit dwarfs hammerers dont have champion,standard bearer neither musician when they have all this in the unit,so need be fixed because its a errata

 

page 127 the warscroll of the freeguild marshal his shield is missing and havent stats

 

page 143 the irondrakes have other errata,the gromrhill armor is missing(+1 save against shooting)

 

edit for not spam posts.

 

remember my problem with the box where the cavalry was missing? 

i got my replacement sent today and i got a double surprise!

first they sent me all the units and not only the cavalry unit missing(even the heroes),so i have 40 stellhelms(i only gonna use 10 tho),5 cavalry and two of each hero.

second surprise,they only sent me the plastic and no bases,so i gonna need buy the bases in some store because i wont ask for bases after the first surprise haha

Edited September 21, 2023 by Doko

[ccconner777]

I just got a delivery of 3d printed chaos dwarfs to use as a greywater fastness army. Especially excited about my bale taurus mounted overseer which i had custom edited from existing available STLs that ill be running as a freeguild marshall on griffon. Lots of challenges in listbuilding as i realized how poor the irondrakes were, replaced them with 20 fussiliers, dropping me below min battleline and requiring a list rewrite and then having the disappointment of realizing how restrictive the battlemage on griffon warscroll is (only gets access to one lore spell which only affects humans means my awesome lammasu model will probably be repurposed into a 2nd marshal or a statue terrain piece). models representing a hellcannon and an iron daemon (steam tank) round out my 3 shooting units and i have the options to pick up some bull centaur renders in the future to use as cavaliers in a different build of the army.

My fingers are crossed for some points drops for the cannon and the irondrakes in the future. Frankly, removing every meaningful buff irondrakes could recieve and not giving them access to any of the shooting orders on top of fixing the cheesy shooting out of ambush in living city was huge overkill. Its gonna be so painful to have to explain what is "human" and what isnt every time i play with an army that is aesthetically all dwarfs

 

[Marcvs]

7 hours ago, ccconner777 said:

i realized how poor the irondrakes were, replaced them with 20 fussiliers

As someone who has contemplated the same option (i..e playing irondrakes as fusiliers) just be careful that the base size is very likely to be different. We still don't know exactly the base size for fusiliers but they seem to be on 28.5mm (or even 32mm) bases

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

10 hours ago, ccconner777 said:

having the disappointment of realizing how restrictive the battlemage on griffon warscroll is (only gets access to one lore spell which only affects humans means my awesome lammasu model will probably be repurposed into a 2nd marshal or a statue terrain piece)

You only get that one lore spell, but of course the Battlemage on Griffon can still take universal and seasonal spells. Still, though, I don't think the guy is really worth it. Definitely not as a caster, at any rate: 1 cast with no bonus is just bad.

His only real role seems to be as a monster hunting monster. I guess self buffing with that 3d6 charge from Wildform is kinda neat in that context. You can also countercharge 3d6 with the buff if you set it up ahead of time. I guess the damage of the wizard is at least respectable if you are fighting monsters with him. The only question is whether that is worth 250 points.

[The Lost Sigmarite]

50 minutes ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

His only real role seems to be as a monster hunting monster.

That's a really small niche to fill. And looking at the monsters frequently brought in games, I don't see me taking the mage on griffon. Most of them are more expensive and would dumpster him in melee (ex : Thirster, Mega, Ogor monsters).

Edited September 22, 2023 by The Lost Sigmarite

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

1 hour ago, The Lost Sigmarite said:

That's a really small niche to fill. And looking at the monsters frequently brought in games, I don't see me taking the mage on griffon. Most of them are more expensive and would dumpster him in melee (ex : Thirster, Mega, Ogor monsters).

I agree that monster hunting is a dubious niche.

Here are the calcs for the Battlemage vs. a monster (with all-out attack):

Save	dumb birb wizard
2+	8.37
3+	11.67
4+	14.96
5+	18.26
6+	19.78
-	19.78

It's not the highest damage you will ever see, but for 250 points on a 14" flying, 3d6 (counter-)charging body, it's not bad in a vacuum.

However, I think overall there is better stuff to spend 250 points on in this battletome. But at least, if you decide to include this guy in your casual lists, he has one job he can do.

[Myrdin]

If the mounted casters at least had the benefits of their foot slogging counterparts, then they might be considered viable.

Dragon Sorc with 4+ ward when close to her bodyguards, and Birb Mage being able to take one of the free battlemage upgrades would certainly improve them somewhat. Considering they are 250 and 270 single cast, single dispel preset chosen spell, pseudo fighty but not really models thats the least they could have done for them.

Now if they dropped to 180-200 points I guess an argument for including them in a list could be made despite all these limitations.

Its baffling that whoever wrote this book didnt consider that these two units had zero play in competitive and probably very little in casual games. Because if clearly nobody is picking them for their games then either the warscroll is lacking, or the price is too high. And to ignore both these issues when moving onto a new book which is the best time to amend any unit as necessary just reeks of lazyness and lack of care.

Edited September 22, 2023 by Myrdin

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

30 minutes ago, Myrdin said:

If the mounted casters at least had the benefits of their foot slogging counterparts, then they might be considered viable.

Dragon Sorc with 4+ ward when close to her bodyguards, and Birb Mage being able to take one of the free battlemage upgrades would certainly improve them somewhat. Considering they are 250 and 270 single cast, single dispel preset chosen spell, pseudo fighty but not really models thats the least they could have done for them.

Now if they dropped to 180-200 points I guess an argument for including them in a list could be made despite all these limitations.

Its baffling that whoever wrote this book didnt consider that these two units had zero play in competitive and probably very little in casual games. Because if clearly nobody is picking them for their games then either the warscroll is lacking, or the price is too high. And to ignore both these issues when moving onto a new book which is the best time to amend any unit as necessary just reeks of lazyness and lack of care.

Kinda sad, but the Birb Mage even got two pretty substantial buffs from his previous warscroll: An unconditional +1 to saves and +1 damage against monsters.

It's just that the previous base line was so bad that he's still one of the worst units in the book right now.

[Morathi is my Goddess]

43 minutes ago, Myrdin said:

If the mounted casters at least had the benefits of their foot slogging counterparts, then they might be considered viable.

Dragon Sorc with 4+ ward when close to her bodyguards, and Birb Mage being able to take one of the free battlemage upgrades would certainly improve them somewhat. Considering they are 250 and 270 single cast, single dispel preset chosen spell, pseudo fighty but not really models thats the least they could have done for them.

Now if they dropped to 180-200 points I guess an argument for including them in a list could be made despite all these limitations.

Its baffling that whoever wrote this book didnt consider that these two units had zero play in competitive and probably very little in casual games. Because if clearly nobody is picking them for their games then either the warscroll is lacking, or the price is too high. And to ignore both these issues when moving onto a new book which is the best time to amend any unit as necessary just reeks of lazyness and lack of care.

Couldn't even justify the sorc dragon at 180 haha. I'd rather take 2 foot sorc.

It needs a complete warscroll rewrite, pts can't fix that travesty.

In other news got to take the dreadlord on dragon out for a spin finally. He has some cool tricks for a fun casual game, especially with the retreat at end of combat, but too fragile for anything too serious. It probably needs the shield to go back to +1 save.

[ccconner777]

4 hours ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

Still, though, I don't think the guy is really worth it. Definitely not as a caster, at any rate: 1 cast with no bonus is just bad.

Agreed. At least if i had all the lore options available i was planning on still using him just for the flavor. But competitively, yeah if you want a fast flying bruiser, you get the marshal, and if you want magic youre way better off with 2 battlemages that can have +1 to cast or increased range on their spells and still have 50pts left over. The griffon mage doesnt do anything that other units dont do notably better. Just wish theyd have made him a double caster, given him the same magic trinkets that foot battlemages get and given him access to the full lore selection, even if he had to be higher points. Riding a griffon should be a mark of experience or office like with the marshal. A battlemage who gets the same mount as a general of the freeguild armies should probably have that priviledge because they are the cream of the crop of the battlemages, not just cause theyre from ghur and therefore a griffon just came with them to the college arcane i guess.

[Shoshuro]

Those 2 last weeks i spent like 4 hours daily painting most of CoS box, 2 steam tanks and a mage and did my first AoS game yesterday against Nurgle.

I tried a 1000 point list i'll be playing this sunday in a 2v2 tournament.

I chose lethis for this list so i can support my teammate with anti ward prayer or curse. Heal prayer helped a lot against nurgle diseases, saving my 2 last steal helms and scoring my grand strat.

Steam tank commander + steam tank did better than i expected.

Opponent scored 5 and 4 points in the two first turns, i scored 2 and 2 (for my first dice roll in AoS my +1 to cast battlemage rolled 1 and 2 on magic shield, and 1 on the primal dice, exploding on most of my army and failing magical dominance). 

I won priority t2 and t3 and took out most of his units with my tanks, and cavalier + cavalier marshall.

I did a cool 10" counter charge with my tank commander that made him fail a battle tactict.

[JackStreicher]

Some Thematic images for bo particular reason

2x 5 Knights

2x20 Steelhelms

1x Marshal

1x Warforger

1x Dreadlord on Black Dragon

1x Amazing 3D Printed Ruin

 

[Gorthor21]

@JackStreicherthats really inspiring thank you it’s cool to see them out of the box.

[TheArborealWalrus]

Perhaps this has been asked before, but what city (subfaction) is best for a steam tank army? I've been having fun with my 2 stanks and started printing an army of them. >:D
I was thinking of 4 with 2 commanders, The warforger for the +1 to save, and a lord ordinator for +1 to hit bubble. (They obviously just chase after the tanks) Leaves me with 340 to play with too.
My initial thoughts were:
- Greywater Fastness: Obvious free all out attacks with that 4+ to hit is good. Not sure if the ordinator reduces its impact too much though.
- Tempest's Eye: retreat and shoot isn't bad with this many shots floating around. Feels less traditional though.
- Lethis: priest steam tank commanders sounds like a fun conversion and will help against wizards some.
- Hammerhall Aqshy: More orders is a good thing! :D
Any recommendations are appreciated. For sigmar!

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

12 minutes ago, TheArborealWalrus said:

Perhaps this has been asked before, but what city (subfaction) is best for a steam tank army? I've been having fun with my 2 stanks and started printing an army of them. >:D
I was thinking of 4 with 2 commanders, The warforger for the +1 to save, and a lord ordinator for +1 to hit bubble. (They obviously just chase after the tanks) Leaves me with 340 to play with too.
My initial thoughts were:
- Greywater Fastness: Obvious free all out attacks with that 4+ to hit is good. Not sure if the ordinator reduces its impact too much though.
- Tempest's Eye: retreat and shoot isn't bad with this many shots floating around. Feels less traditional though.
- Lethis: priest steam tank commanders sounds like a fun conversion and will help against wizards some.
- Hammerhall Aqshy: More orders is a good thing! :D
Any recommendations are appreciated. For sigmar!

Steam Tanks are a hybrid unit and kind of benefit a litte bit from everything. For full tank spam my personal choice would be Hammerhal Aqsha so that you can keep both +3" movement and counter fire/suppressive fire up at the same time.

Also consider a Hurricanum.

[ccconner777]

7 hours ago, TheArborealWalrus said:

- Greywater Fastness: Obvious free all out attacks with that 4+ to hit is good.

Id probably skip this considering a steam tank commander gives you this ability on his warscroll, just with one fewer unit benefiting, so you basically have like 1/2 to 2/3 of the greywater fastness ability already.

7 hours ago, TheArborealWalrus said:

- Tempest's Eye: retreat and shoot isn't bad with this many shots floating around. Feels less traditional though.

One of the worst options for most cities armies I think but this might be the play for steam tank spam. Youll be doing a lot of charging and having more flexibility to retreat your tanks and reposition without losing all of their damage output could be really valuable.

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

Has anyone been putting any thought into interesting ally options for Cities?

I want to maybe include a few Stormcast for the flavour, but I am unsure if any are actually worth it from a gameplay standpoint.

[JackStreicher]

1 hour ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

Has anyone been putting any thought into interesting ally options for Cities?

I want to maybe include a few Stormcast for the flavour, but I am unsure if any are actually worth it from a gameplay standpoint.

Dragonriders might be worth something imo.

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

1 minute ago, JackStreicher said:

Dragonriders might be worth something imo.

I have not really kept up with their points/rules updates. Are they still good? I know a lot of lists switched to Fulminators instead for a while, but I think that had more to do with their interactions with the old Living City ambush rules.

[JackStreicher]

23 minutes ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

I have not really kept up with their points/rules updates. Are they still good? I know a lot of lists switched to Fulminators instead for a while, but I think that had more to do with their interactions with the old Living City ambush rules.

They're still solid, yet expensive. 
Their biggest advantage is the MW output and that they can fly (+ Monsters that actually deal damage for once)

[Lord Krungharr]

I might do the allied Stormdrake Guard.  For now I only have a Knight Draconis, or 4 Desolators.  Desolators have some MW breath, very solid consistent AP2 melee, of course slower than the Stormdrakes but I like them.  

The other allied option would be Tree Revenants, 3x5 of them.  Or if Living City, Tree Revs 1x5 plus Treelord.  Outflank the Treelord for backfield mayhem and terrain smashing.

 

[Doko]

6 hours ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

Has anyone been putting any thought into interesting ally options for Cities?

I want to maybe include a few Stormcast for the flavour, but I am unsure if any are actually worth it from a gameplay standpoint.

we have lost every unit with deep strike,so i would get as allys stormcast palladors or sylvaneth tree unit that teleport each turn