AoS 3.0 - Ogor Mawtribes Discussion

[Oldhat]

2 hours ago, Chronos said:

I think Yhetees are really good because they give you a cheap battleline with a TT general, and also can avoid your army being Unleashed Helled by piling in 6".

A shame they are hideous, overpriced models. 

[Lord Krungharr]

Maybe Troggoth or rat ogre bodies, green stuff fur sticking out of cracks, with Kragnos faces would be a good Yhetee conversions.  He comes with 3 faces, and then Kragnos could have just a big rock for a face like he's still got some mountain stuck on him?

Saw a Kragnos and Stonehorn/Thundertusk army fight a 10 Stegadon army yesterday (3K points).  The Ogors held out for a good while but I think he had some bad rolls, as the last I saw of it was 6 Stegs still standing, a Butcher getting finished off and a Stonehorn remaining.   But to be fair he was a first time army player and the Seraphon guy was a super duper experienced player.  Still, Stegs are pretty hard counter to Stonehorns, or everything really.

[Kadeton]

7 hours ago, Lord Krungharr said:

Still, Stegs are pretty hard counter to Stonehorns, or everything really.

That's really surprising to me. I'm guessing the Coalesced damage reduction does an awful lot of the heavy lifting there, because on the face of it the Stegadons look like they'd get rolled by Stonehorns in very short order. Stonehorns are much faster so they can control the initial engagement and ensure their charges, they put out way more mortal wounds, and they're a lot tougher.

At 3000 points, you could run four Frostlords and four Stonehorn Beastriders, and I feel like that would obliterate ten Stegadons without breaking a sweat. Can you go into a bit more detail about why it ended up being such a difficult matchup?

[Lord Krungharr]

I think the Ogor player's lack of army experience is one big factor (with the other player being a very active tournament player); he also was using Kragnos, and appeared to be too timid with everything.  Aggressive behavior is so key with an Ogors army most of the time.    I agree, the BCR stampede should probably roll the Stegs...however he was using at least 2 or 3 Thundertusks, and those are fairly meh aside from a Destiny's Child Huskard.

The Seraphon magic and 3 or 4 Engine of the Gods did a bunch of stuff too.  Apparently the Engines are Priests now and he took Curse and used it to good effect.

All Stonehorns all the time!  Kragnos is like a FLoSH and a half!  Not super sure he's worth that in a BCR stampede.

[Mokoshkana]

Quick question regarding mournfang. I’ve always played two model units with a champion and a horn blower, but recently using battle scribe, it does not allow that option as it’s not a full four model unit. Is BattleScribe correct that horn blowers and standards are only viable in a four model unit or is my initial thought process correct? 

[Kadeton]

On 9/11/2021 at 6:02 AM, Mokoshkana said:

Is BattleScribe correct that horn blowers and standards are only viable in a four model unit or is my initial thought process correct? 

Yeah, unfortunately the unit needs to have at least four models before you can include a standard and/or musician. The rule about "1 in every x models" upgrades is 22.3.3.

In our next battletome, I wouldn't be surprised if Mournfangs had four models as their minimum size, since the trend seems to be towards the contents of a single box being the basic unit.

[Schauer]

So it looks like two of the KB units can be brought in as allies for Ogors. At 150 points im very tempted to bring 1 or 2 of the sloggoths solely for the 18 inch +1 to hit bubbles they provide. Much more reliable to use to than the Slaughtermasters pot and you dont need to use command pts on all out attack.  

[Malakithe]

Im in a holding pattern until the 3.0 book comes out. Based on the Warclans and SCE book a lot will change for the Mawtribes

[Oldhat]

On 9/16/2021 at 3:32 AM, Malakithe said:

Im in a holding pattern until the 3.0 book comes out. Based on the Warclans and SCE book a lot will change for the Mawtribes

Same here. Really hoping they fix glutton unit size if nothing else. 

[Kadeton]

On 9/16/2021 at 6:32 PM, Malakithe said:

Im in a holding pattern until the 3.0 book comes out. Based on the Warclans and SCE book a lot will change for the Mawtribes

Based on those books, what kind of changes are you expecting?

It will be interesting to see whether GW continues down the path of simplified/streamlined warscrolls with minimal special rules, or whether that's mainly a Stormcast thing as the "starter" army. Ogor warscrolls already aren't especially complex, for the most part.

I'm really happy with where the Beastclaws are in the meta at the moment, so there's not much I'd like to see changed. But I certainly wouldn't be surprised by Mournfangs going to a minimum unit size of 4 (since that's what comes in the box, which seems to be the trend). I'd prefer if they also counted as more than two models for objectives, and got +1 when rolling for impact hits, but that's just wishlisting. It would also be nice if the Huskard on Stonehorn got something to make him a more worthwhile choice, but I also wouldn't be shocked if Frostlords got knocked down to a 4+ save.

Edited September 20, 2021 by Kadeton

[Oldhat]

13 hours ago, Kadeton said:

Based on those books, what kind of changes are you expecting?

It will be interesting to see whether GW continues down the path of simplified/streamlined warscrolls with minimal special rules, or whether that's mainly a Stormcast thing as the "starter" army. Ogor warscrolls already aren't especially complex, for the most part.

I'm really happy with where the Beastclaws are in the meta at the moment, so there's not much I'd like to see changed. But I certainly wouldn't be surprised by Mournfangs going to a minimum unit size of 4 (since that's what comes in the box, which seems to be the trend). I'd prefer if they also counted as more than two models for objectives, and got +1 when rolling for impact hits, but that's just wishlisting. It would also be nice if the Huskard on Stonehorn got something to make him a more worthwhile choice, but I also wouldn't be shocked if Frostlords got knocked down to a 4+ save.

I'm a Gutbuster player so I'd want to see Gluttons go to unit size three for starters. Not sure what else really needs a major shakeup but that is a major point since six is just ridiculous. 

[Mokoshkana]

1 hour ago, Oldhat said:

I'm a Gutbuster player so I'd want to see Gluttons go to unit size three for starters. Not sure what else really needs a major shakeup but that is a major point since six is just ridiculous. 

It is highly unlikely they reduce the squad size, as they just increased it. I think six has the potential to work, but they need to adjust one of two things in order to make it viable. One, gluttons get a 2" range allowing them to get full attacks from models in the back due to coherency, or two, they give gluttons a special rule that allows a unit of six models to act as though they only have five models with respect to coherency. Otherwise, they will remain practically unplayable to me. I'd rather have Leadbelchers or Ironguts than the current Glutton incarnation.

[Schauer]

1 hour ago, Mokoshkana said:

It is highly unlikely they reduce the squad size, as they just increased it. I think six has the potential to work, but they need to adjust one of two things in order to make it viable. One, gluttons get a 2" range allowing them to get full attacks from models in the back due to coherency, or two, they give gluttons a special rule that allows a unit of six models to act as though they only have five models with respect to coherency. Otherwise, they will remain practically unplayable to me. I'd rather have Leadbelchers or Ironguts than the current Glutton incarnation.

In the age of 3+ and 4+ saves thanks to all out defense units need some access to rend and right now the only "rend" gluttons are getting is coming from a butcher casting ribcracker. the point value can be lived with but they have a tough time competing with the plethora of +1 save available. They need ironguts to bait out the all out defense (or vice-versa if youre running a big squad of gluttons)

Now if I had to change them for a new book....

Thematically it wouldnt make sense for clubbing weapons to provide rend/armor penetration so I think a better route would be getting rid of exploding 6's for paired clubs and instead just giving them weapon damage as mortal wounds on wound rolls of 6 as some sort of concussive blow kind of thing

[Kadeton]

6 hours ago, Schauer said:

Thematically it wouldnt make sense for clubbing weapons to provide rend/armor penetration

I guess it's sort of counter-intuitive, but clubs are one of the best ways to overcome heavy armour. Armour is effective against blades and arrows because it distributes the (relatively small) force that would normally exert tremendous pressure via an edge or point over a larger area - a bludgeoning weapon already delivers its (relatively large) force over a large area, and armour does very little to mitigate the damage it does.

[Mutton]

Gluttons (and gutbusters in general) have been in a bad place since 3.0. Coherency and armor stacking really knocked them down the ladder, and it's hard to find a use for them other than as a wall of pure wounds. Even Ironguts with -1 rend struggle to get through all of the save bonuses flying around now. It sucks because ogres are supposed to be terrifying brutes capable of tackling warhorses all on their own. But since 3.0 they just kind of bounce off of everything like a bongo drum.

[Charlo]

Hopefully coherency issues will be fixed with something like larger weapon ranges across the faction.

Just look at the size of Ogor weapons! They're bigger than a man or two, they can absolutely reach far!

Weirdly I think Ogors have an identity as a wall of wounds, but little armour and also deal high damage but with little rend. It's an odd duality.

[Mutton]

5 hours ago, Charlo said:

Weirdly I think Ogors have an identity as a wall of wounds, but little armour and also deal high damage but with little rend. It's an odd duality.

In AoS that's been their identity. But they should be high dps, low armor beefcakes. However you can't excel in combat in AoS without significant rend or innate mortals. So that definitely needs to change lest ogres simply become tall clanrats (tons of wounds but otherwise useless).

[Lord Krungharr]

I think a new Ogors tome will maintain much of their current allegiance abilities but probably alter their subfaction abilities to dish out more MW somehow.  Don't think we'll see Ironguts go rend-2, though that would AMAZING.  Maybe hits or wounds of 6 for various units will be rend-2 or MW; the latter seems to be a popular trend.  Would be a good Command Ability for the Tyrant or Slaughtermaster.  And we'll get some unique Battle Tactics for sure. 

REAAALLY hoping for some appetizing Endless Spells too, just ridiculously oversized ones (gargantuan maw of some sort to devour everything around it, a massive hand with club similar to the Khorne axe but HUGER to hunt things, and mountainous pile of food or something like a mirage to encourage the hungry to speed up for dinner).

The coherency for units of 5 or less in the core rules is just dum and should have been 6, since so many units come in 3s and 6s.  The little Troggoths come to mind, and of course Gluttons are just trash because of that.  But I don't think they'll give an exception in a battletome unfortunately.

Also Gnoblars need to be like 80 points for 20.  

I am keen to see which units in the Kruleboyz are Troggoth and give a +1 to hit bonus to Ogors?!  That's exciting news to me....

[Nordrim]

My army is pirate themed and here is my current list. It has ironblasters, man eaters and a firebelly, not the most competetive of lists but i do like to keep it themed and casual.

Army Name: Unnamed Army 3
Army Faction: Ogor Mawtribes
Subfaction: Underguts
Battlepack: Pitched Battles
Points Limit: 2000 pts
General: Tyrant
Units
    Ironblaster
        Battlefield Role: Artillery
        Points Cost: 130 pts
    Ironblaster
        Battlefield Role: Artillery
        Points Cost: 130 pts
Core Battalions
    Hunters of the Heartlands
        Ogor Gluttons
            Battalion Slot Filled: Troops
            Battlefield Role: Battleline
            Points Cost: 260 pts
        Ironguts
            Battalion Slot Filled: Troops
            Battlefield Role: Battleline
            Reinforced: Once
            Points Cost: 490 pts
        Leadbelchers
            Battalion Slot Filled: Troops
            Battlefield Role: Battleline
            Reinforced: Once
            Points Cost: 360 pts
    Warlord
    Magnificent Bonus: Artefacts of Power
        Firebelly
            Battalion Slot Filled: Sub-commander
            Battlefield Role: Leader
            Artefacts of Power: Gnoblar Blast Keg
            Spells: Fiery Whirlwind
            Points Cost: 125 pts
        Tyrant (General)
            Battalion Slot Filled: Commander
            Battlefield Role: Leader
            Command Traits: Mass of Scars
            Artefacts of Power: Gruesome Trophy Rack
            Points Cost: 160 pts
        Butcher
            Battalion Slot Filled: Sub-commander
            Battlefield Role: Leader
            Spells: Ribcracker
            Points Cost: 135 pts
        Maneaters
            Battalion Slot Filled: Troops
            Battlefield Role: Other
            Points Cost: 180 pts
Faction Terrain
    Great Mawpot
Total Points: 1970 pts
Invalid: Created with Warhammer Age of Sigmar: The App
 

[Malakithe]

Im not expecting more unit size changes but points will change obviously. Then there will be core battalions added that are different from the core rules. Then of course all the sub-factions will be changed and gutted. Less options but also less restrictions. Also expect almost all of the CA on warscrolls to go away. With those changes alone everyones list building fundamentals will be different. 

But who knows when that will happen. Im just of the mind set to not make anymore lists since I know whats coming. Unless there is an event or something

[KingBrodd]

Bilepiper on Instagram has done an epic Stormcast Maneatee conversion!!

[Lord Krungharr]

On 9/25/2021 at 8:36 AM, Malakithe said:

Im not expecting more unit size changes but points will change obviously. Then there will be core battalions added that are different from the core rules. Then of course all the sub-factions will be changed and gutted. Less options but also less restrictions. Also expect almost all of the CA on warscrolls to go away. With those changes alone everyones list building fundamentals will be different. 

But who knows when that will happen. Im just of the mind set to not make anymore lists since I know whats coming. Unless there is an event or something

hmmm, do the most recent tomes have compulsory traits n relics for subfactions?  I find those to be the most limiting things.  If the native warscrolls don't change guess most of my army comps won't change too much.  I mean, leadbelchers blast and ironguts bash, and slaughtermasters toss messes all over the place in several ways.  

It would be great to have more deepstriking or ambushy units that weren't so dependent on being Beastclaw.  Just having Gorgers be units of 3 would help that...and with new plastic models.  Rat ogres might make good bodies for converting those though.  At least they can be units of 2, but 3 would be better.

[Lord Krungharr]

Here's my next experiment, Underguts w Gorgers.  I mean at least they can score that one Battle Tactic turn 1.

 

[Kadeton]

What, the tactic where you have to get two units into your opponent's territory - you're spending 320 points for that? Sir, let me introduce you to my good friend Hrothgorn...

[Schauer]

So my Thunderbellies list is set for my GT im attending this weekend.

 

FLoSH - General, Storm Chaser, Metalcruncher, Shatterstone
HoTT - Amulet of Destiny
Butcher - Bloodfeast
Slaughtermaster - Ribcracker

3 Sets of 4x Mournfang with Gargant Hackers

 

Ive got as much practice as I could get in with the list. Closest Ive come to losing is against Sylvaneth where I wasnt expecting new Alarielle to kill my stonehorn and 6 mourfang by the end of turn 2. The games I have won though I either clear the board turn 1 and start fighting immediately on my own terms or the threat of their movement range forces the opponent to make a tough choice about who goes first turn 1 which is good because I am not winning priority with 7 drops most of the time.

 

There's going to be a couple armies there with Archaon and a few Morathi's (some with Gortrek). I feel good about my chances against Archaon since I atleast have a chance of killing him before turn 5 but I'll admit I'm not sure what my gameplan will be against Morathi except pray I dont get matched with her for the hero scoring battleplan. My army doesnt quite have the chaff to throw at her and even with All-Out Defense or Mystic Shield I think she is still blending most of my army sans the stonehorn. I could maybe box her up with it but I feel like that ends up becoming a waste of my points and their archers will likely just mow it down with their mortals. Outside of DoK though I feel like Ive got a fighting chance against most opponents. I am interested too in how the double turn plays out against this army. I havent been bitten by it yet (as most of the time my opponents are opting to go first t1 which isnt usual) but I think good positioning to start the game puts me in a tough spot if I have to go first. Especially against ranged mortal spam lists.

Not expecting a 5-0 performance as the level of competition there will be much higher than local but I do hope that I can atleast get to 3 wins with the list. There are virtually no Thunderbellies armies playing at any GT's so I have no barometer to compare against but there are plenty of Boulderhead and Bloodgullet around. 

 

My next iteration of Thunderbellies will include a Huskard on Stonehorn in lieu of Frostlord and a Marshcrawler Trog to give me more accessible +1 to hit buffs but thats for a later GT and after a bit of practice! 

Edited October 5, 2021 by Schauer