AoS 3 - Nighthaunt Discussion

[Boggler]

There has to be a Command Trait that makes the Sciptor's proc roll better.

But in this case, it would be an auto-take since I don't know what other CT's would be comparable.

Maybe the possibility of choosing a 2nd target? or rolling 3d6 mortals?

There has to be something more to it... Too strong?

[dmorley21]

7 hours ago, Boggler said:

There has to be a Command Trait that makes the Sciptor's proc roll better.

But in this case, it would be an auto-take since I don't know what other CT's would be comparable.

Maybe the possibility of choosing a 2nd target? or rolling 3d6 mortals?

There has to be something more to it... Too strong?

I’m guessing there will be a subfaction that boosts it like Nurgle got for their new hero. Maybe subtract one from the judgment rolls. 

22 hours ago, EnixLHQ said:

Looks like we might get our tome announcement on May 5th.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/04/25/warhammer-fest-returns-with-four-full-days-of-mind-blowing-reveals/

I wouldn’t expect dates announced. And they’ve already announced the new battletome, so I wouldn’t expect anything for Nighthaunt to be announced. Pay attention to when Warhammer Community starts previewing rules. That will be the clue. 

[EnixLHQ]

1 hour ago, dmorley21 said:

I wouldn’t expect dates announced. And they’ve already announced the new battletome, so I wouldn’t expect anything for Nighthaunt to be announced. Pay attention to when Warhammer Community starts previewing rules. That will be the clue. 

Booo 😞

[That Guy]

16 hours ago, dmorley21 said:

I’m guessing there will be a subfaction that boosts it like Nurgle got for their new hero. Maybe subtract one from the judgment rolls. 

I wouldn’t expect dates announced. And they’ve already announced the new battletome, so I wouldn’t expect anything for Nighthaunt to be announced. Pay attention to when Warhammer Community starts previewing rules. That will be the clue. 

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/04/27/the-daughters-of-khaine-now-indulge-in-more-powerful-blood-rites-with-fewer-re-rolls/
 

While it’s not nighthaunt, it’s Khaine preview rules. We all know they get released at the same time. Our book will drop very very soon.

[Evil Bob]

On 4/21/2022 at 10:33 PM, That Guy said:

So.. going back to my list post with the 20 craventhrone and incarnate. I won against Tzeentch and Ossiarch. I lost against Nurgle.

snip

Against Ossiarch I had a tough time with the save stacking and re-roll on morteks my craventhrone were pretty useless.

snip

Last night I played against a Slaves to Darkness with Tzneetch marks. 2+/3+ Saves with re-rolling 1’s everywhere important. It was a nightmare. With only half of my collection at hand the multi-model units on the table were chainrasps, bladeghiest revenants, grimghast reapers, and chainwrasps. The only units to have positive results were the chainrasps with the volume of inflicted saves needed and chainghasts rend -2 on shooting. The bladeghiest revenants had too few wounds at their cost to stick around in units of five or ten. Grimghast reapers in-between the ‘durability ’ and ‘attack results’.

If anything it really makes me want to double down on Chainwrasps and my twenty Hexwraiths. Chainwrasps at their point value with ‘Hero buffs’ and ‘war-scroll size’ really puts in the work. Hexwraiths with mortal wound options and favorable durability.

My twenty bladeghiests revenants and thirty-one grimghast are hereby banished to storage until either GW fixes them, throws a viable option in white dwarf or army book, or a new edition of AoS changes the meta where they have value again. This is a serious threat. My entire Imperial Guard army has been boxed since the last major nerf during Psychic Awakening years ago. I would have sold it but many of those miniatures have been in my possession for over twenty years.

——
Aside from now on Olyander will always start in the underworld unless table-top placement presents an opportunity that absolutely demands her presence. Her mortal wound output is just that important.

Edited April 27, 2022 by Evil Bob

[That Guy]

9 minutes ago, Evil Bob said:

Last night I played against a Slaves to Darkness with Tzneetch marks. 2+/3+ Saves with re-rolling 1’s everywhere important. It was a nightmare. With only half of my collection at hand the multi-model units on the table were chainrasps, bladeghiest revenants, grimghast reapers, and chainwrasps. The only units to have positive results were the chainrasps with the volume of inflicted saves needed and chainghasts rend -2 on shooting. The bladeghiest revenants had too few wounds at their cost to stick around in units of five or ten. Grimghast reapers in-between the ‘durability ’ and ‘attack results’.

If anything it really makes me want to double down on Chainwrasps and my twenty Hexwraiths. Chainwrasps at their point value with ‘Hero buffs’ and ‘war-scroll size’ really puts in the work. Hexwraiths with mortal wound options and favorable durability.

My twenty bladeghiests revenants and thirty-one grimghast are hereby banished to storage until either GW fixes them, throws a viable option in white dwarf or army book, or a new edition of AoS changes the meta where they have value again. This is a serious threat. My entire Imperial Guard army has been boxed since the last major nerf during Psychic Awakening years ago. I would have sold it but many of those miniatures have been in my possession for over twenty years.

——
Aside from now on Olyander will always start in the underworld unless table-top placement presents an opportunity that absolutely demands her presence. Her mortal wound output is just that important.

Keep the mental strong mate. We are on the cusp of possible greatness. Don't let go of any of your units yet. It's hard to say this but it's best to forget about all the nighthaunt warscrolls as they are until our book drops, which should be very soon. The only warscrolls you can be a bit more sure of are the ones included in the Arena of Shades box set. Besides the Banshees it was not super exciting. Although they are still solid units. You have to keep in mind, new tome updates come paired with a rotation of what's good, what's okay and what's bad. Your #1 unit could now become #5. Banshees were not seen a lot in lists, this will change. For me Myrmourn banshees gave me a big dominant position against magic heavy armies already. The Scriptor Mortis has it's place, it should be slightly cheaper, but overall it offers a decent threat. 

[lare2]

DoK rules on WarCom. I predict NH rules this week and potential preorder of both tomes Sunday. 

[dmorley21]

Hey all,

I’m taking the following list to a tournament in a couple weeks:

Nagash / Reik / Harrow

Hex / Hex / Chainrasp

Krondspine.

When I bought my ticket to the tournament back in January, I had hoped it would be my first event with the new book. Well lists are due Friday so I’m just looking to do something completely different and just have some fun. 

Question is, should I run it as Emerald Host or just no subfaction? 

Edited April 27, 2022 by dmorley21

[lare2]

3 hours ago, dmorley21 said:

Question is, should I run it as Emerald Host or just no subfaction? 

You'd have beefier hex who could also tank wounds for your general... but then you'd lose access to RotSH and whatnot. I'd be tempted not to bother, with your list. 

[Evil Bob]

4 hours ago, dmorley21 said:

Question is, should I run it as Emerald Host or just no subfaction? 

Tagging an enemy hero with -1 Save can seriously change the game. Especially if they go all-in with an expensively pointed model.

I’ve used twenty Hexwraiths to make Orlyander immortal before. It depends how competitive this tournament is and how comfortable you are with possibly losing your general.

Edited April 27, 2022 by Evil Bob

[dmorley21]

4 minutes ago, Evil Bob said:

Tagging an enemy hero with -1 Save can seriously change the game. Especially if they go all-in with an expensively pointed model.

I’ve used twenty Hexwraiths to make Orlyander immortal before. It depends how competitive this tournament is and how comfortable you are with possibly losing your general.

There are some high quality players attending. A few of the Detroit guys who are pretty good. I hope to live at the mid tables. But you’re right about the -1 save being pretty good. 

[EnixLHQ]

21 hours ago, dmorley21 said:

Hey all,

I’m taking the following list to a tournament in a couple weeks:

Nagash / Reik / Harrow

Hex / Hex / Chainrasp

Krondspine.

When I bought my ticket to the tournament back in January, I had hoped it would be my first event with the new book. Well lists are due Friday so I’m just looking to do something completely different and just have some fun. 

Question is, should I run it as Emerald Host or just no subfaction? 

I think you lose a bit too much not taking Emerald Host with that many Hexwraiths and the debuff available.

[Boggler]

I'm super happy with the new Nighthaunt Battle Traits!

Aura of Dread, Ethereal, Discorporate, Wave of Terror (+table), Frightful Touch, Vanishing Phantasms

I can't wait to see what the new Processions do!

Grieving Legion, Emerald Host, Scarlet Doom, Quicksilver Dead.

The new Battletome is on its way gentlemen!

 

[Jaskier]

The new/updated traits are AMAZING! 

Army wide retreat and charge, the 6+ ward is now army wide (don't need to be near heroes for it), enemy units can't issue or receive Inspiring Presence if within 3" of any Nighthaunt units, they have a 5+ ward command ability in place of All Out Defence (it works the same way) all melee attacks auto-wound on unmodified 6s to-hit army wide, you get to pull three units off the board after deployment to put into reserves (really cool for playind mind games with your opponent) and Wave of Terror is now a debuff for a single unit within 1" of a charging Nighthaunt unit with a different effect based on the unmodified charge roll - way better and easier to get value out of than the old version! 

The subfactions look sweet too; one stops enemies retreating from Nighthaunt units with 10 or more models (like the Tzeentch Host Duplicitous) one does mortal wounds on a 2+ at the end of each battle round to D3+1 units chosen at the start of the game - looks to be D3 to non-monsters so likely D6 to monsters - which looks like a cool way to deal with units that might otherwise be hard to get at, another makes Bladegheists Battleline and gives them a mortal wound on the charge ability, and the last makes Dreadscythes Battleline and prevents enemies using ward saves when within 3" of them. 

This is so good! 

[lare2]

Wow... I mean... wow. Just seen the leak and this is looking good. 

[The_Dudemeister]

Lady O for 340 points. Still 7 wounds with a 4+ Ethereal but also a 4+ Ward. Effectively 14 wounds. 

Now that she can actually use her Lifting The Veil ability to heal d3 wounds, she is actually tanky. 

Lifting The Veil is virtually unchanged except giving +1 Mortal wound against terrified targets. And crucially it is now in the SHOOTING Phase. Yes yes yes, move in position first, this is huge and makes up for losing Wail Of The Damned

Also returning d6 slain models to every SUMMONABLE unit anywhere on the battlefield once per game is insane. That brings back so many points 😍

12" aura of blocking a unit to issue commands while the CP is still spent is neat. 33% chance is too unreliable but the effect is very strong

Grief-stricken spell completely unchanged. Good, was always an amazing spell and even a 7 to cast is fair. 

+1 attack on main weapon that is flat 2 damage instead of d3 and - 1rend on Banshees that don't deal Mortal wounds anymore. Strange that overall, including losing potentially dealing d6 mortals once per game, Lady O might deal less damage for a 50%price hike.

But she is now an amazing support piece that will be extremely hard to kill. Before, I never got to see her damage anyway with her melting before getting into range

[Jaskier]

It's actually kind of crazy to think how tanky Olynder is. She ignores 50% of all non-mortal wounds thanks to having a 4+ unmodifiable save, then she ignores 50% of all unsaved damage/mortal wounds thanks to her 4+ ward. Chuck the in-built healing on top of that (and obviously Heroic Recovery if needed) and she's going to be extremely difficult to put down. 

Edited April 30, 2022 by Jaskier

[The_Dudemeister]

Now I've seen more warscrolls... We lost all our Mortal Wound output. Granted it wasn't much. But we lost all of it. 

Not only is Frightful Touch now autowounds on 6s. But also things like Spirit Hosts. They legit now only have 6 attacks 4+ 4+ without rend

How are we supposed to get damage through? Our wet noodle arms were one of THE biggest problems.

[lare2]

Speaking of how tough Lady O is, am I right in thinking Spirit Hosts can tank wounds for her as well?

[Vastus]

It's already been said, but the allegiance abilities are so good. I'm pretty happy overall with what I'm seeing. We're losing a bit of punch on some warscrolls for all the utility and denial we get, but that's not too bad honestly. The -1 save on Wave of Terror is helpful too. I'm most surprised by the Spirit Host change though. They now bodyguard on a 3+ while losing their MW output. They are basically meatshields, but they will help our support heroes survive for a long time. It does come instead of Ward saves though, so they took care to make Olynder not completely invincible.

Edit: Also I must credit GW, the Discorporate CA is a very elegant way of compensating us for not being able to use All-Out Defence.

Edit2: Also some nice synergy between Knight of Shrouds and Dreadscythe Harridans, where they fight immediately after each other and if the Knight actually did damage, the Harridans have a 3+/3+ profile. The free AoA is wasted then though.

 

Edited April 30, 2022 by Vastus

[Malakithe]

The downside is definitely the points increases all over the place

[lare2]

Anyone seen Grimghast Reapers yet? Hard to build lists with them still in the wild. 

Just checked, Dreadblade and new Scriptor chap missing as well. 

Edited April 30, 2022 by lare2

[mojojojo101]

My initial thoughts;

Allegiance abilities are awesome, command traits and artifacts on the other hand are meh at best. Spell Lore is still good.

Emerald Host / Grieving Legion I like, the other 2 are a little restrictive but I love the models for both Bladegheists and Harridens (have 30 of each) so I'll probably give them a go.

Olynder looks much improved, but heroes as a whole will still be fragile.

Don't see where we are going to be getting damage from and the points are high. Harridans feel like they've been kicked pretty hard but we will see.

 

Mixed reaction overall I think.

[Ledgington]

20 minutes ago, lare2 said:

Anyone seen Grimghast Reapers yet? Hard to build lists with them still in the wild. 

Just checked, Dreadblade and new Scriptor chap missing as well. 

 Not to mention the Black Coach 

[The_Dudemeister]

15 minutes ago, mojojojo101 said:

Don't see where we are going to be getting damage from and the points are high.

How will we fight armies with good saves like Stormcast? We bring way fewer models to the table and lost almost all our mortal wound output.

 

Not saying it will be impossible. Just that we have to drop one or the other support piece and defensive spell/relic/trait for some actual damage dealers

 

I think that is the main factor we need to consider when building lists.