AoS3 - Lumineth Realm-lords Discussion

[Howdyhedberg]

So... Does Teclis know all spells, or you pick 2 from the table? I thought he could cast any from the book, but it seems like in the app that you pick spells?

[GrimDork]

1 hour ago, Howdyhedberg said:

So... Does Teclis know all spells, or you pick 2 from the table? I thought he could cast any from the book, but it seems like in the app that you pick spells?

On the app it is not clear at all, but on the spell lore page of the physical copies of the battletome it says “TECLIS knows all of the spells from the following table.”

[Maogrim]

He's the God of Magic. He knows all the spells. And it's pretty clear that he'll know all the spells of the River and Zenith lores as well, once they are out.

[Howdyhedberg]

Thanks! I recall it being that way, but I was unsure when I looked at the app.

Thanks! 

[Maogrim]

11 hours ago, Howdyhedberg said:

Thanks! I recall it being that way, but I was unsure when I looked at the app.

Thanks! 

I keep hearing that the app isn't really that accurate in many cases. You did well by double-checking with the forums. 

Man, Teclis is so awesome! I can't wait to try him out on the table with a ton of Stoneguard. 😊

[Howdyhedberg]

I played my 2nd 2000 point game with Lumineth. Teclis made up for his points fast. It was about tzeench, so most of the time was spent in the magic phase.

It was a tied game but my opponent conceded in the third round since he didn't have that many models left and I would probably kill everything that was left in that or the upcoming turn.

I still think that there is a lot of rules to keep track of compared for example Kruleboyz. I still feel like Lumineth is pretty op with all the extra rules. But at the same time, other factions could be op with some lists :)! I played once with Dawnriders and a lord regent and died first in a 3 player game ;D!

 

[UltimateManiac]

Hi Folks,

are there any good Alarith-Lists around or is Alarith kind of ****** at the moment?

Got a few games with a list building around Avalenor with a Stonemage, Loreseeker, Cathallar, 20 (4x5) Stoneguards and 30 Sentinels, etc but there is just no impact and i dont feel like to be a threat on the board 😔

[Maogrim]

On 4/11/2022 at 11:37 AM, UltimateManiac said:

Hi Folks,

are there any good Alarith-Lists around or is Alarith kind of ****** at the moment?

Got a few games with a list building around Avalenor with a Stonemage, Loreseeker, Cathallar, 20 (4x5) Stoneguards and 30 Sentinels, etc but there is just no impact and i dont feel like to be a threat on the board 😔

Yeah, from what I learned around here, Ymetrica/Alarith were never the competitive way to play Lumineth to begin with and have lost a little more with the erasure of the Alarith Temple battalion. 

I guess if you'd like more impact you could try taking out one of the heroes and some Sentinels or Stoneguard and add another Mountain Spirit. Maybe Gotrek? A way of teleporting Stoneguard could also be useful, to put your slow but hard to kill infantry where it needs to be; e.g. a Hurakan Windmage or even Teclis.

[Maogrim]

On 4/11/2022 at 11:37 AM, UltimateManiac said:

Hi Folks,

are there any good Alarith-Lists around or is Alarith kind of ****** at the moment?

Got a few games with a list building around Avalenor with a Stonemage, Loreseeker, Cathallar, 20 (4x5) Stoneguards and 30 Sentinels, etc but there is just no impact and i dont feel like to be a threat on the board 😔

And just recently I read of an Alarith-heavy Ymetrica list that went 4-1 and won a tournament. Apparently it looked like this:

Avalenor

Stone Mage

Lord Regent

3x 10 Stoneguard

2x Alarith Spirit of the Mountain

 

[Maogrim]

Greetings, chosen warriors and mages of Hysh!

Rumour has it, that there might be a new battletome coming for us Lumineth as soon as Autumn! So I think this is the right time to maybe discuss the changes and new heroes/units we would like to see.

I for one would like some tweeks to the Stoneguard's mounrain stance. As it works right now, they may just declare and are able to ignore rend -1 (and -2 if from Ymetrica). I personally would like it more if that rule seperated from the stance. The stance would remain, could be declared at the beginning of the movement phase, and would grant a safe reroll in exchange for the ability to run or change.

Of course it would be amazing if we got the River temple which would mean 1 mage hero, 1 unit, 1 monster and a character version if said monster! For a unit I would like something with two daggers that's maybe harder to hit if they attacked in the same round. Lumineth's version of Witch Aelfs maybe?

Would love to read your thoughts! 😊

[Beliman]

1 hour ago, Maogrim said:

I for one would like some tweeks to the Stoneguard's mounrain stance. As it works right now, they may just declare and are able to ignore rend -1 (and -2 if from Ymetrica). I personally would like it more if that rule seperated from the stance. The stance would remain, could be declared at the beginning of the movement phase, and would grant a safe reroll in exchange for the ability to run or change.

I don't expect rerolls, it seems that they are going the way of the dodo in 3.0.

Even if I'm not a Lumineth player, I always loved the concept behind their rules. Imo, Lumineth have the best rules structure in the entire game, they just need more polished rules.

[OkayestDM]

5 hours ago, Maogrim said:

Greetings, chosen warriors and mages of Hysh!

Rumour has it, that there might be a new battletome coming for us Lumineth as soon as Autumn! So I think this is the right time to maybe discuss the changes and new heroes/units we would like to see.

I for one would like some tweeks to the Stoneguard's mounrain stance. As it works right now, they may just declare and are able to ignore rend -1 (and -2 if from Ymetrica). I personally would like it more if that rule seperated from the stance. The stance would remain, could be declared at the beginning of the movement phase, and would grant a safe reroll in exchange for the ability to run or change.

Of course it would be amazing if we got the River temple which would mean 1 mage hero, 1 unit, 1 monster and a character version if said monster! For a unit I would like something with two daggers that's maybe harder to hit if they attacked in the same round. Lumineth's version of Witch Aelfs maybe?

Would love to read your thoughts! 😊

Personally I doubt we'll get anything other than the book this time around (I'd certainly be OK with being wrong about that though!)

Its possible that the stoneguard ignore rend ability just becomes a part of their warscroll, or gets turned into a unique Alarith Command ability or "once per round, one unit may" ability. 

I think it very likely that a lot of our rules are just going to go away or get folded into our unit stat lines. That would be on par with other books so far.

Most factions seem to have 3-4 allegiance abilities, and I'll be amazed if the current Vanari, Alarith, and Hurakan sub-abilities make the cut. 

Aetherquartz is almost a shoe-in for one of the Allegiance abilities. Same with Lightning Reflexes. Given the Kruelboyz and Nurgle treatment, I'm curious if Sunmetal Weapons will become one as well.

As for units, the one I'm most hoping receives a glow-up are the Bladelords. Fantastic models that just . . . aren't really worth taking at the moment. I just want them to be good in melee. They'll probably keep some iteration of their bodyguard rules, as GW is real fond of those at the moment.

Wouldn't mind Dawnriders getting some love either. I'd like our generic cavalry unit to be good against all enemies, not just hordes (then maybe I could finally run an all or mostly cav army with my aelves!)

Setting aside my belief that we won't get any new models, I'm curious how GW will keep the River Temple clearly water-based without dipping its toes too much into Idoneth territory. Alarith are tough, and Hurakan are maneuverable, so will water temple units be flexible? Healing/lifegiving? Calm/brave? There's lots of design space in there, the question is, which way will they go?

If I recall correctly, the River Temple is supposed to be the most populated of all the temples, which makes me thing the troop will be a 10 strong infantry unit. Not sure what weapon option they would go with though. Swords, spears, and hammers are already covered, and daggers or axes just don't seem like the Lumineth style. Bowstaves maybe? 

[Tarogrim]

So much to unpack here. 

As a sucker for all things Alarith I would love to see a glow up for them. Getting rerolls back and maintaining the ignore rend -2 in Ymetrica would be super rad but is also pretty unlikely. I want them to keep the keyword abilities (alarith, vanari, hurakan) because they are fluffy and not op. Looking at it from the other side, I cannot see them removing shining company so those things should be safe. 

What they should fix however are the stances on the stoneguard as you already pointed out. It always felt weird in the last two books so either change it so that it actually feels like stances(meaning only one can be active at a time) or simply take them out. 

I am curious to see how they going to handle the MW issue. Maybe power of hysh goes from 1 MW on 5+ too 2 MW on 6+. Would make it more swingy and therefore less NPE. Don't know it really is a fine line to walk. Hopefully they come up with a good solution. 

Dawnrider will probably stay as is because GW anticipates going into a horde season and this is where they could really shine. 

As for new models, I hope it's not too much because I'm still way of on what I want in my collection. 

[kollapse]

2 hours ago, Tarogrim said:

So much to unpack here. 

As a sucker for all things Alarith I would love to see a glow up for them. Getting rerolls back and maintaining the ignore rend -2 in Ymetrica would be super rad but is also pretty unlikely. I want them to keep the keyword abilities (alarith, vanari, hurakan) because they are fluffy and not op. Looking at it from the other side, I cannot see them removing shining company so those things should be safe. 

What they should fix however are the stances on the stoneguard as you already pointed out. It always felt weird in the last two books so either change it so that it actually feels like stances(meaning only one can be active at a time) or simply take them out. 

I am curious to see how they going to handle the MW issue. Maybe power of hysh goes from 1 MW on 5+ too 2 MW on 6+. Would make it more swingy and therefore less NPE. Don't know it really is a fine line to walk. Hopefully they come up with a good solution. 

Dawnrider will probably stay as is because GW anticipates going into a horde season and this is where they could really shine. 

As for new models, I hope it's not too much because I'm still way of on what I want in my collection. 

With the amount of mortal wounds dished out by SCE, Nurgle etc - also 3.0 tomes - I'm curious how much of a problem the MWs in LRL is now, or how much that will change in a new tome? 

[OkayestDM]

34 minutes ago, kollapse said:

With the amount of mortal wounds dished out by SCE, Nurgle etc - also 3.0 tomes - I'm curious how much of a problem the MWs in LRL is now, or how much that will change in a new tome? 

That's definitely one of the big questions. Will Sunmetal weapons go away as a faction ability, and Power of Hysh become the means by which a unit gets access to MW? Does it staying the same, but now PoH can only be cast once per turn? Does it work like the Kruelboyz MWs? Will they move it to the wound roll? Is it going to get the Nurgle treatment and be gated somehow?

There's lots of ways they could handle it, it's just a matter of what they go with.

I'm also curious how they'll tweak the Cathallar and spells like Total Eclipse. Perhaps the Cathallar will now work like the Nighthaunt terror ability, preventing the use of Inspiring Presence to one or more units? Does TE stay the same, or get toned down to only double the CP for the first command issued instead of all of them.

 

[readercolin]

With the amount of stuff that has been released for Sylvaneth and Slaves to Darkness, I wouldn't expect another temple for Lumineth.  I could be wrong, but I wouldn't expect it.  Maybe another hero (because clearly Lumineth need more hero's), but I would expect that it is mostly just an allegiance ability rebalancing.

Going with GW's pattern, I would expect simplified warscrolls, loss of command abilities, and more power put into the allegiance abilities.  I would also expect the various great nations to provide just a single ability, and maybe unlock battleline.  So here would be my expectations:

Sunmetal weapons may get changed to an allegiance ability, or may remain on warscrolls (considering that it is only on some of the warscrolls).  Personally, I expect it to stay on warscrolls because it is on less than half the warscrolls.  That being said, I could see them lean more into that and have it be an allegiance ability like the Kruelboyz one and just shift it so that the whole army is always doing mortals.  If they do that, then I would expect power of hysh to just be a spell that is an allegience ability that can be cast multiple times.  I would expect that the wizard units keep being wizards, but no changes to the non-wizard units in this regard.

For the warscrolls, in general I expect them to be simplified.  Sentinels, Wardens and Dawnriders will remain wizards, but they won't have any other special abilities, just warscroll adjustments.  Swordmasters will likely be either bodyguards or have their swordmaster ability, but not both.  Stoneguard and Windchargers will likely get new profiles and lose any special abilities they have, and I expect the spirit of the wind to get greatly simplified and gain the elite keyword.  The ballista will likely lose the warding lantern and starshard bolts ability, and just get +1 attack on its profile and have a once-per-game blinding bolts ability.

For hero's, I don't expect too many changes aside from removing command abilities and the monsters getting their brackets changed.

Finally, allegiance abilities.  I expect the great nations to be simplified just like every other book so far to being a single buff and maybe battleline unlocks.  Artefacts, command traits will be lumineth generic, but I also expect them to all get changed up.  Aetherquartz and lightning reactions will likely stick around, though the buffs provided by aetherquartz might change.  I'm not sure if they will keep the vanari/scinari/hurakan/alarith battle traits, or if they will just cut those or shift them to hero buffs.  Finally, I expect the spells to get thoroughly changed up, probably with a reduction in the total number of spell options - the big question is whether they will keep the 3 spell lores, or shove everything into a single one.

[woolf]

would be great ut they could make alarith proper anvil, give then 4+ ward or smth like Phoenix guard. keep dmg low is fine but at least make them hard to kill and maybe change the ability to push people to be a bit more impactful in the objective game, more like the orruk brutes maybe..

they seem to like playing with the 3.0 reactions as well so maybe huracan could get some bonus to redeploy to make them even more annoying ^^

[Chumphammer]

Will just leave this here yeah 

[Maogrim]

I hope they don't change anything about the spell lores because I really want to see the Archmage be able to access all five potential lores one day. I don't care if it's complicated. It would just be so epic!

With that being said I could see them changing spell lores from six to three spells. But lumping one aspect of every lore into one wouldn't make any sense since we have mages dedicated to the temple lores. And we're supposed to be Order's magic faction, so we should have ample spells.

[Jarminiatures]

On 5/11/2022 at 5:21 AM, Maogrim said:

Greetings, chosen warriors and mages of Hysh!

Rumour has it, that there might be a new battletome coming for us Lumineth as soon as Autumn! So I think this is the right time to maybe discuss the changes and new heroes/units we would like to see.

I for one would like some tweeks to the Stoneguard's mounrain stance. As it works right now, they may just declare and are able to ignore rend -1 (and -2 if from Ymetrica). I personally would like it more if that rule seperated from the stance. The stance would remain, could be declared at the beginning of the movement phase, and would grant a safe reroll in exchange for the ability to run or change.

Of course it would be amazing if we got the River temple which would mean 1 mage hero, 1 unit, 1 monster and a character version if said monster! For a unit I would like something with two daggers that's maybe harder to hit if they attacked in the same round. Lumineth's version of Witch Aelfs maybe?

Would love to read your thoughts! 😊

 

Below is what I want, I don't think GW are going to be this sensible or generous though. I fear a large overcorrection is coming. If we get a new hero, let it be a beatstick please or something like a Thrallmaster but for Wardens.

Vanari/Scinari/non-elemental heroes

• Shining Company - Simplify to if a Vanari unit has 5+ models then it's a Shining Company, remove run/charge restrictions
• Teclis - Reduce to 700 points. Lunar Staff becomes D3+3. Starts bracketing at 6 wounds taken.
• TLoE - Reduce to 200 points, give an extra wound, Fangsword becomes Damage 3, give a 5+ Ward
• Lyrior/Vanari Lord Regent - Reduce Lyrior to 170, generic to 140. GIve Lyrior an extra wound. Increase Sword to Damage 2 and Rend -2. Tweak Sunmetal Weapons so it can stack with Flaming Weapon;
• Vanari Bannerblade - increase sword to Damage 2, massive points decrease to say 80 points
• Scinari Calligrave - Change Erasure to D3+3 on the second cast, 5+ Ward like Idoneth
• Scinari Cathallar - 5+ Ward like Idoneth;
• Scinari Loreseeker - 5+ Ward like Idoneth but take the +1 save away, keep as one per army but allow artefacts/traits
• Myari - Reduce to 180 points, staff becomes Damage 2. Give Myari only a 5+ Ward. Purifiers - change as below.
• E&E - Reduce to 220 points. Altairi becomes damage 3. Sudden Translocation heals D3 but teleportation becomes optional.
• Vanari Wardens - Bump down to 135 points, increase Bravery by 1 (a Namarti Thrall shouldn't be braver);
• Vanari Sentinels - Remove Sunmetal Weapons, but give an extra Attack with both bow profiles. Increase Bravery by 1.
• Vanari Bladelords - Reduce to 110 points. Increase Perfect Strike to Rend -3, Damage 2. Increase Dual Blades to 5 attacks, Damage 2 (it needs to be a viable alternative). 
• Vanari Dawnriders - Lances should be 2 attacks, wound 3+, rend -2, damage 2. Increase save to 3+ (come on GW, rider and horse are both armoured). Give all riders a Sword.
• Vanari Ballista - Give it an extra shot natively (& keep Warding Lanterns as is)

Alarith

• Enduring as Rock, simplify to they always reduce Rend by 1. No need to declare
• Stonemage - Give a 5+ Ward. Staff becomes 3 attacks, 2 damage.
• Stoneguard - Increase to movement 6", Bravery 8. Weapons become Damage 2, improve Rend by 1. Stratum's are 3+ to wound.
• Avalenor - Give an extra 2 wounds. Geomantic Blast becomes D3+3.  Firestealer Hammers to Rend -3. Improve the bracketing, starts at 8 suffered. Unshakeable Faith becomes  Once Per Battle, but pick 3 units not D3.
• Spirit of the Mountain - Give an extra 2 wounds. Geomantic Blast becomes D3+3. Improve the bracketing, starts at 7 suffered. Make Elite. 

Hurakan

• WIndmage - Give a 5+ Ward, 
• Sevireth - Reduce to 280 points. Give an extra 2 wounds. Bow becomes 2 Damage. Remove movement from Spirit of the Wind rule (can still retreat & charge, add that it can retreat & shoot). Searing Desert Winds becomes 2 MW.
• Spirit of the Wind: Reduce to 220 points. Becomes Elite. Remove movement from Spirit of the Wind rule (can still retreat & charge, add that it can retreat & shoot).
• Windchargers - Reduce to 140 points. Bow shooting becomes rend -2 (how is it less rend than if you bonk then on the head with it?) and damage 2. 

 

Edited May 13, 2022 by Jarminiatures

[Chumphammer]

LRK points changes:

 

Stonemage: 130 to 120 -10
Lyrior Uthralle: 215 to 200 -15
Myari Lightcaller 240 to 250 +10
Sanctum of Amyntok 60 to 50 -10
Rune of petrification 75 to 40 - 35
Cathallar 145 to 110 -35
Ballista 125 to 135 +10

Maybe a new hero coming soon as theres an entry for Scinari Enlightener for 160pts

Edited June 17, 2022 by Chumphammer

[undeadheadz]

Going to a tourney in Portsmouth 1st weekend in August list I shall be bringing is

 

 - Army Faction: Lumineth Realm-lords
     - Subfaction: Helon
     - Grand Strategy: No place for the weak (kill all opponents battleline)
     - Triumph: Inspired
LEADERS
Sevireth (345)***
Hurakan Windmage (120)***
     - Spells: Guiding Flurries
Scinari Cathallar (110)***
     - Artefacts of Power: Silver Wand
     - Spells: Total Eclipse
Scinari Loreseeker (170)***
     - General

      Command trait - skyrace Grand Champion

       Artefact metalith dust
     - Spells: Lambent Light
BATTLELINE
10x Hurakan Windchargers (310)*
     - Windspeaker Seneschal
     - Standard Bearer 
10x Hurakan Windchargers (310)*
     - Windspeaker Seneschal
     - Standard Bearer 
10x Hurakan Windchargers (310)*
     - Standard Bearer 
     - Windspeaker Seneschal
OTHER
5x Vanari Dawnriders (140)**
     - Steedmaster
     - Standard Bearer
     - Spells: Solar Flare
5x Vanari Dawnriders (140)**
     - Standard Bearer
     - Steedmaster
     - Spells: Speed of Hysh
TERRAIN
1 x Shrine Luminor (0)
CORE BATTALIONS
*bounty hunter

** bounty hunter
***command entourage 
     - Magnificent

TOTAL POINTS: 1955/2000

Have updated list to allow for point changes and that the scinari loreseeker is no longer unique. And for the new bounty hunter Battalions

Goal for my games will be to use the high speed and +1 damage (plush sheer weight and number of attacks) on the bounty hunter units to roll through the new veteran units.

I won't have any veterans myself so going second could prove difficult as I won't be able to take any objectives they turn off, but hopefully if I hit em fast and hard enough I can remove most battleline options before they can regroup and can then focus on board control and harassing larger models and heroes

 

Comments and criticisms welcome if anyone can think of tweaks

Edited June 22, 2022 by undeadheadz

[martinwolf]

I love it. No idea how competitive it is, but I'd love to see that on the table. One thing though, you can only take one Bounty Hunter battalion. Ah, and be aware that the +1 damage is only in melee.

Edited June 22, 2022 by martinwolf

[undeadheadz]

3 hours ago, martinwolf said:

I love it. No idea how competitive it is, but I'd love to see that on the table. One thing though, you can only take one Bounty Hunter battalion. Ah, and be aware that the +1 damage is only in melee.

Been playing something similar over the past year and generally does pretty well in friendly games, haven't taken it to a tourney yet though because the gold trim is sucking out my soul and I've been putting off finishing it. It can come across difficulties when fighting walls like nurgle or fast/ alpha strike lists like deepkin or stormcast.

 

Didn't realise you could only have one Bounty Hunter battalion will shift the dawnriders and heroes into a Warlord battalion, and yup realised its only in melee but a unit of 10 windchargers has 30 melee attacks, so 90 attacks across all three units combined with the plus 1 damage that's 180potential damage in melee with an additional 60 at range, they should be able to chew things up quite nicely

 

 

Edited June 22, 2022 by undeadheadz

[martinwolf]

17 hours ago, undeadheadz said:

and yup realised its only in melee but a unit of 10 windchargers has 30 melee attacks, so 90 attacks across all three units combined with the plus 1 damage that's 180potential damage in melee with an additional 60 at range, they should be able to chew things up quite nicely

oh yes, that sounds amazing. Love to hear about your games in the new GHB and against what you played. My local club is pretty competitive but I always like looking for something a bit more out there. Like your list. Cheers!