AoS 3 New Rules Discussion

[PJetski]

Just now, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

Do you have a source on this? Because Sprues and Brews lists this spell as one of the new enhancements:

Ghost Mist: Casts on a 5+ and causes a terrain feature to block line of sight.

Since it grants line of sight blocking, that would imply that terrain does not generally block line of sight.

I meant to say every piece of terrain gives cover against shooting, and that all woods block line of sight. I edited my post right while you were typing your reply.

[Ganigumo]

11 minutes ago, KrispyXIV said:

Why are people suggesting unique characters (like Morathi) lose access to spells from Spell Lores?

The unique character isn't taking the Spell Lore Enhancement, the Army is.  

The Spell Lore enhancement then lets all your wizards select a Lore Spell.

The idea that unique characters can't benefit indirectly from an enhancement is... a leap. 

Verbatim:
 

Quote

Enhancements cannot be given to Unique units (see 25.6.1) or allies units, unless noted otherwise.

 

[whispersofblood]

30 minutes ago, Fred1245 said:

Firstly, why would you bring an ironscale over a bloodwrack in a shooting army? Second of all, DoK have been a shooting army since they torched most of our melee options. Most lists have 1 or 2 units of blood sister because witch aelves and Sisters of Slaughter are trash now, and that's it. We also ALREADY go without artefacts so who cares?

The rest of that is mostly wishful thinking. You're not going to be baiting out CP or doing cool tactics, you're going to be dying. If you manage to die slow enough that you're not fully neutered by the end of the double turn, congrats, you probably win! If you don't die slow enough, you lose.

Nothing you do with CP matters because the other player can just counter it with CP(they have more than you turn 1 remember?) DoK especially don't use prayers offensively anymore and with Morathi apparently losing her book spell, don't need those either. The question will be dice. Do they throw enough dice at you to heavily damage your counter attack? If yes, you lose, if no you win. Nothing else in the game matters but how many wounds you fail to save in the first two turns.

Medusa/Ironscale is mostly pedantry there is a 10 point difference. You know I was saying a hero to make the Blood Stalkers Battleline so you can even take a unit of 15.

...well in AoS 1 and 2 I've given the turn away at some of the most competitive tournaments in the US and a few in the UK. And, if you watch coverage lots of competitive AoS involves carefully choosing what to do with the priority. Like anything the double's power is relative to the board state.

Umm you can definitely bait out CP... 1) forcing an battleshock on the blood stalkers. 2) Threatening combats in the top of the turn, 3) charging the Bloodstalkers with tradeable units so you control what they use unleash hell on.

Like maybe your experience has been you and your opponent rolling dice at each other. But this game does involve quite a bit of tactical decision making. 

[jhamslam]

7 minutes ago, PJetski said:

Every piece of terrain gives cover against shooting, and tables should have 8+ pieces of scenery.

All woods block line of sight, and there is a universal spell to make any piece of scenery block line of sight.

That is a tremendous nerf to shooting.

...except Lumineth Sentinels, obviously. They're not allowed to be nerfed.

Thats the theme of the entire LRL book.

"oh this core rule? yeah i dont follow it at all"

[Acrozatarim]

So, the AoS List Lab chap's claims were largely accurate, but, there's one thing he mentioned that notably hasn't been said as being in the core in these latest leaks.

He said something along the lines of the player going second on turn 3 being able to remove an objective from the battlefield, or something along those lines.

I wonder if that's coming in the GHB, and if so, if it's coming with other measures to balance against key double-turns in matched play?

[PJetski]

7 minutes ago, Ganigumo said:

Verbatim:
 

 

The way I read it is that getting a spell from the Spell Lore is not an Enhancement, but you can use an Enhancement to get additional spell for your entire army.

I'm gonna re-read it to be sure

edit: Seems I was mistaken. All spell lore gains are Enhancements, and Unique can never get Enhancements. Clear as day.

Edited June 14, 2021 by PJetski

[Yondaime]

2 minutes ago, jhamslam said:

Thats the theme of the entire LRL book.

"oh this core rule? yeah i dont follow it at all"

Dont exagerate it, aside from sentinels LRL is a well written and balanced book

[KrispyXIV]

4 minutes ago, Ganigumo said:

Verbatim:
 

 

Correct.  Absolutely. 

But Units do not take the Spell Lore Enhancement.

The army does - and then the Enhancemrnt then grants benefits to the armies Wizards.  

The quoted text does not say Unique Units are unaffected by friendly Enhancements. It says they can't he chosen to receive them (ie, artifacts).

[Perturbato]

Just now, Yondaime said:

Dont exagerate it, aside from sentinels LRL is a well written and balanced book

Let's start a LRL bash post again !!! Don't says we exagerate .. it's not just about sentinels. Telics autocast, bladelords autohit/wound i don't care remember it .. objective autocontrol, I don't says it's unbalanced but yeah the whole book is about saying no to the rules ^^

[Perturbato]

I think i will play a lot in the Ulgu realms again 😛

[Ganigumo]

1 minute ago, PJetski said:

The way I read it is that getting a spell from the Spell Lore is not an Enhancement, but you can use an Enhancement to get additional spell for your entire army.

 

2 minutes ago, KrispyXIV said:

Correct.  Absolutely. 

But Units do not take the Spell Lore Enhancement.

The army does - and then the Enhancemrnt then grants benefits to the armies Wizards.  

The quoted text does not say Unique Units are unaffected by friendly Enhancements. It says they can't he chosen to receive them (ie, artifacts).

Enhancements:
 

Quote

Each set of allegiance abilities includes a number of enhancements that are given to specific units in an army. Enhancements are divided into command traits, artifacts of power, spell lores, prayer scriptures, mount traits, triumphs, and one or more sets of unique enhancements.

Enhancements are picked after you have chose battalions for your army (see 26.0) you can always take 1 enhancement of each type in your army, and the battalions or battlepack you are using may allow you to take additional enhancements for your army.

Enhancements are taken, and given to specific units. The spell lores enhancement is taken (and is what lets any of your wizards know any additional spells) and given to each wizard, but unique character cannot be given enhancements so they do not receive the benefit of the spell lores enhancement. 

[JackStreicher]

5 minutes ago, Ganigumo said:

Enhancements are taken, and given to specific units. The spell lores enhancement is taken (and is what lets any of your wizards know any additional spells) and given to each wizard, but unique character cannot be given enhancements so they do not receive the benefit of the spell lores enhancement

explains why they showed the Arcane Bolt example for Nagash: there isn't much else he can do XD

Edited June 14, 2021 by JackStreicher
spelling

[PJetski]

That certainly explains why every new Wizard warscroll in Kragnos says they know every spell from the lore. 

Edited June 14, 2021 by PJetski

[Aeryenn]

22 minutes ago, PJetski said:

Every piece of terrain gives cover against shooting, and tables should have 8+ pieces of scenery.

All woods block line of sight, and there is a universal spell to make any piece of scenery block line of sight.

That is a tremendous nerf to shooting.

...except Lumineth Sentinels, obviously. They're not allowed to be nerfed.

Kharadron ships have flying.

[Aeryenn]

23 minutes ago, PJetski said:

Every piece of terrain gives cover against shooting, and tables should have 8+ pieces of scenery.

All woods block line of sight, and there is a universal spell to make any piece of scenery block line of sight.

That is a tremendous nerf to shooting.

...except Lumineth Sentinels, obviously. They're not allowed to be nerfed.

DP

Edited June 14, 2021 by Aeryenn

[Mcthew]

2 minutes ago, JackStreicher said:

explaions why they showed the Arcane Bolt example for Nagash: there isn't much else he can do XD

In Soulblight GL Nagash knows all the SBGL spells. Although some of those are pants to be honest.

[Yondaime]

12 minutes ago, Perturbato said:

Let's start a LRL bash post again !!! Don't says we exagerate .. it's not just about sentinels. Telics autocast, bladelords autohit/wound i don't care remember it .. objective autocontrol, I don't says it's unbalanced but yeah the whole book is about saying no to the rules ^^

Teclis cost 660 point and is made of wet paper, is a really hard model to play properly, he has autocast yes, but you have to make the right choice at the right moment or youll waste those points

Bladelords damage is a joke (they are bodyguards, not hitters)

fun and unique rule=/=say no to rules

 

Edited June 14, 2021 by Yondaime

[KrispyXIV]

9 minutes ago, Ganigumo said:

 

Enhancements:
 

Enhancements are taken, and given to specific units. The spell lores enhancement is taken (and is what lets any of your wizards know any additional spells) and given to each wizard, but unique character cannot be given enhancements so they do not receive the benefit of the spell lores enhancement. 

Ok, I'm convinced that a FAQ is needed

The result here is pretty unintuitive, so I'm hoping it's just unintended.

[Ganigumo]

1 minute ago, KrispyXIV said:

Ok, I'm convinced that a FAQ is needed

The result here is pretty unintuitive, so I'm hoping it's just unintended.

same I don't think this was intentional, although they have been making a lot of "Loremasters" recently so maybe they'll update warscrolls instead and give unique characters set spells instead of choosing.

[PJetski]

I wonder if they will issue erratas for every battletome to remove the sections that say each Wizard can learn a spell from the lore. The way it is worded right now every non-unique wizard will learn 2+ spells (one from battletome rule, one from enhancements) on top of their warscroll spell and endless spells.

[Perturbato]

1 minute ago, Yondaime said:

Teclis cost 660 point and is made of wet paper, is a really hard model to play properly, he has autocast yes, but you have to make the right choice at the right moment or youll waste those points

Bladelords damage is a joke (they are bodyguards, not hitters)

fun and unique rule=/=say no to rules

 

sorry my english was like "i don't say that but in fact yes" but actually i didn't want to talk about balance. It was more about the fact they said bye bye to the rules in many warscroll that's just it !

[Yondaime]

4 minutes ago, Perturbato said:

sorry my english was like "i don't say that but in fact yes" but actually i didn't want to talk about balance. It was more about the fact they said bye bye to the rules in many warscroll that's just it !

Oh ok my bad then, its just that when LRL are mentioned it always starts a hate train

11 minutes ago, KrispyXIV said:

Ok, I'm convinced that a FAQ is needed

The result here is pretty unintuitive, so I'm hoping it's just unintended.

Yes, units like pink horros or freeguild need a faq, or they will be broken

[Marcvs]

21 minutes ago, Aeryenn said:

Kharadron ships have flying.

flying has no impact anymore. Now you need to have 10+ wounds to see above woods and stuff, which 2 out of 3 KO ships have but a lot of scary shooters like flamers and skinks don't have.

Edited June 14, 2021 by Marcvs

[Ganigumo]

9 minutes ago, PJetski said:

I wonder if they will issue erratas for every battletome to remove the sections that say each Wizard can learn a spell from the lore. The way it is worded right now every non-unique wizard will learn 2+ spells (one from battletome rule, one from enhancements) on top of their warscroll spell and endless spells.

almost certainly, they'll just need to replace the text with something like "these spells are available to <x> as a spell enhancement option"

1 minute ago, Yondaime said:

Oh ok my bad then, its just that when LRL are mentioned it always starts a hate train

Yes, units like pink horros or freeguild need a faq, or they will be broken

Horrors are broken either way, but their warscroll says they can only cast their warscroll spell (even if they could learn another one). Whats pretty bad about horrors is that you can still screen nearly as effectively as before. line up a unit of blues/pinks with just under 1" between each model, then put a triangle at each end. Every other unit in the game would break coherency here is any models are slain, but horrors can fill the coherency hole with the models spawned by their split ability.

[PJetski]

23 minutes ago, Aeryenn said:

Kharadron ships have flying.

It seems Flying has no effect on line of sight.

Models with 10+ wounds do not have their line of sight blocked by wyldwoods (and vise-versa).

Models with 10+ wounds do not benefit from cover (or Look Out Sir, if they are a HERO). 

Units with <10 wounds behind terrain still receive cover from shooting regardless of the size of the attacker.