Neil Arthur Hotep Posted May 29, 2021 Share Posted May 29, 2021 The first new units for Cities of Sigmar are now up for preorder! Stats: Both 5 wounds, 4+ save, bravery 8 5+ FNP Double damage against DEMONS and WIZARDS Can attack Endless Spells: If they land a hit, basically you get to roll to dispell. 115 points each Galen ven Denst 6" move Retreat and shoot and charge Pistol: 9", 3 attacks, 3/3/-1/1 Sword: 1", 6 attacks, 3/3/-1/1 Doralia ven Denst 5" move Crossbow: 24", 1 attack, 3/3/-2/2 Sword: 1", 3 attacks, 3/3/-1/1 +1 to hit and attacks for the crossbow if she does not move.I What do you guys think? I will probably put them into lists every now and then. They are pretty fun and their models are cool. They are very good at dealing with endless spells. But I don't see them as competitive choices. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dankboss Posted May 29, 2021 Share Posted May 29, 2021 Doralia at 115 is very good for reaching out and popping support wizards, or harassing larger wizards. 4-8 damage at 24" a turn is very good for her price. I will 100% be taking her in my Hammerhal army as I tend to lack the means to take out support heroes, and she does the job well at a low price. She will almost certainly take out an enemy Battlemage or Sorceror Lord at least once a game to get her points back, and then go on to harass other units. I can see her killing two support heroes a game if in range; she might also have the added effect of keeping support heroes much farther back and away from the units they need to be supporting. I'm very happy with her. She will certainly bite chunks out of the likes of greater demons and monster wizards. Galen is decent in a vacuum and his stats vs wizards are good (a potential 18 wounds), however, due to the nature of most wizards being at the back, he is unable to project his power across the board like Doralia can do, so unfortunately I can't see myself using him, which is fine; I wanted to use at least one of them. If you go up against a lot of endless spells then you can have him pull up and quickdraw on 3 of them at once XD Other than that, Doralia is the clear winner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zilberfrid Posted May 29, 2021 Share Posted May 29, 2021 (edited) Lumineth (as well as evocators and Sisters of the Thorn, probably some Tzeenchies as well) units can also be wizards. That makes them a bit more useful Edited May 29, 2021 by zilberfrid 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Televiper11 Posted May 29, 2021 Share Posted May 29, 2021 “5+ FNP“ I find this unconscionable. There are Gods, Avatars, and thickly scaled monsters in this game with no Shrug whatsoever yet those two have get a 5+?!? A 6+ I could live with, maybe. It doesn’t make sense to me, logically. Though I recognize that AoS is utterly illogical. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dankboss Posted May 29, 2021 Share Posted May 29, 2021 1 hour ago, Televiper11 said: “5+ FNP“ I find this unconscionable. There are Gods, Avatars, and thickly scaled monsters in this game with no Shrug whatsoever yet those two have get a 5+?!? A 6+ I could live with, maybe. It doesn’t make sense to me, logically. Though I recognize that AoS is utterly illogical. They could have just called it Divine Protection and had the same result. I do get the impression that as like in other warhammer concepts, they believe so strongly in what they do that the power manifests itself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zilberfrid Posted May 29, 2021 Share Posted May 29, 2021 2 hours ago, Televiper11 said: “5+ FNP“ I find this unconscionable. There are Gods, Avatars, and thickly scaled monsters in this game with no Shrug whatsoever yet those two have get a 5+?!? A 6+ I could live with, maybe. It doesn’t make sense to me, logically. Though I recognize that AoS is utterly illogical. With MW spam, it would be good to give everything a 5+ mw save to counter it. I don't mind them getting it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dankboss Posted May 29, 2021 Share Posted May 29, 2021 Just noticed they can serve as adjutants which makes Doralia even better if your list lacks an alternative, since she can chill at the back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doko Posted May 30, 2021 Share Posted May 30, 2021 The father is very bad(as every hero withouth ca or bufs) but the daugther isnt so bad and i would like to play her but i wont pay 40€ to play a small hero of 12\17 € Her damage isnt bad and vs wizards is pretty good,only for sniping enemy mages she is ok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Arthur Hotep Posted May 30, 2021 Author Share Posted May 30, 2021 4 hours ago, Doko said: The father is very bad(as every hero withouth ca or bufs) but the daugther isnt so bad and i would like to play her but i wont pay 40€ to play a small hero of 12\17 € Her damage isnt bad and vs wizards is pretty good,only for sniping enemy mages she is ok Even though he has no synergy, I feel like Galen would be pretty good if it was easier to get him into position to deal with wizards or endless spells. Because he is very good at removing those if he gets close enough. But his low movement makes it hard for him to do his job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dankboss Posted May 30, 2021 Share Posted May 30, 2021 Unless you play against Lumineth, Tzeentch, lots of endless spells or a lot of demons in general, Galen really can't do that much since he is very specialized. However, if you do find yourself facing a lot of endless spells he can potentially destroy 3 a turn with his pistol which is pretty good. Unfortunately, Doralia can destroy 2 at range and still be able to snipe enemy wizards. Honestly, I'm glad the Witch Hunters can, you know, hunt witches. Doralia at least. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aloth_Corfiser Posted May 30, 2021 Share Posted May 30, 2021 I am looking forward to add them to my Wanderer-Living City Army. They are the best Models of the year in my opinion. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Arthur Hotep Posted May 31, 2021 Author Share Posted May 31, 2021 I did some damage calculations for the two witch hunters. Their damage when not fighting wizards or demons is just about the same as Freeguild Guard with Halberds at point parity. If they are fighting wizards or demons, they hit just about as hard as Freeguild Greatswords (so very hard). To me, that makes it justifiable to even throw Galen into a list. He may be situational, but he's a fairly tough hero with a good damage output that can act independently. Plus, the situations he is good in are fairly common. Just about any army will have wizards or endless spells, and if you go up against an army with wizard units like Lumineth or a Chaos demon army, he can be a good source of damage on a very small foot print. I'm not saying he's good good, but you don't need to feel bad about taking him or Doralia or even both in your casual lists. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dankboss Posted May 31, 2021 Share Posted May 31, 2021 1 hour ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said: I did some damage calculations for the two witch hunters. Their damage when not fighting wizards or demons is just about the same as Freeguild Guard with Halberds at point parity. If they are fighting wizards or demons, they hit just about as hard as Freeguild Greatswords (so very hard). To me, that makes it justifiable to even throw Galen into a list. He may be situational, but he's a fairly tough hero with a good damage output that can act independently. Plus, the situations he is good in are fairly common. Just about any army will have wizards or endless spells, and if you go up against an army with wizard units like Lumineth or a Chaos demon army, he can be a good source of damage on a very small foot print. I'm not saying he's good good, but you don't need to feel bad about taking him or Doralia or even both in your casual lists. If you want to enjoy Galen at his best then taking him when you know your matchup is preferable; my regular opponent just got Legion of the First Prince, and there Galen will do some work with 9 damage 2 attacks. In terms of pure competitiveness, it's Doralia I'll be using. Can't say I'm bothered by the fact the Witch Hunters are specialists who are effective against their preferred targets; not sure why some people didn't get that part. Fortunately Wizards and Demons are extremely common. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barbarian Borelord Posted May 31, 2021 Share Posted May 31, 2021 How would their anti-wizard bonus work against regular Lumineth units? Because as far as I know only the leader of a Lumineth unit (like a Steedmaster in Vanari Dawnriders) has the wizard keyword. I have ordered these two guys and soon I'll be having a game against my brother-in-law's Lumineth army, so I need to know... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OkayestDM Posted May 31, 2021 Share Posted May 31, 2021 (edited) 35 minutes ago, Barbarian Borelord said: How would their anti-wizard bonus work against regular Lumineth units? Because as far as I know only the leader of a Lumineth unit (like a Steedmaster in Vanari Dawnriders) has the wizard keyword. I have ordered these two guys and soon I'll be having a game against my brother-in-law's Lumineth army, so I need to know... The leader allows the unit to cast spells, but many of the Lumineth units are still treated as wizards so long as the leader is alive and they have a certain number of models still in the unit. If they meet the above criteria, they qualify for his bonus damage until they drops below that. Edited May 31, 2021 by OkayestDM Edited for accuracy. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barbarian Borelord Posted May 31, 2021 Share Posted May 31, 2021 7 minutes ago, OkayestDM said: The leader allows the unit to cast spells, but many of the Lumineth units are still treated as wizards so long as the leader is alive and they have a certain number of models still in the unit. If they meet the above criteria, they qualifies for his bonus damage until they drops below that. Alright. My brother-in-law will be in for a surprise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rune Posted May 31, 2021 Share Posted May 31, 2021 57 minutes ago, Barbarian Borelord said: How would their anti-wizard bonus work against regular Lumineth units? Because as far as I know only the leader of a Lumineth unit (like a Steedmaster in Vanari Dawnriders) has the wizard keyword. I have ordered these two guys and soon I'll be having a game against my brother-in-law's Lumineth army, so I need to know... The unit is definitely not a wizard. Only the model inside the unit. The unit is however not considered a wizard. When using a unit of sentinels, you can for instance only unbind within 30" of the high warden. You can't measure from any other model in that unit. Which you could if they were wizards. Note that this is different than the wording on Sisters of the Thorn. To me, it isn't clear how this interacts in this case. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OkayestDM Posted May 31, 2021 Share Posted May 31, 2021 11 minutes ago, Rune said: The unit is definitely not a wizard. Only the model inside the unit. The unit is however not considered a wizard. When using a unit of sentinels, you can for instance only unbind within 30" of the high warden. You can't measure from any other model in that unit. Which you could if they were wizards. Note that this is different than the wording on Sisters of the Thorn. To me, it isn't clear how this interacts in this case. That's a fair point. As an owner of a Lumineth army, I'd probably just give it to my opponent, but RAW it is a bit unclear how this would interact with the Ven Densts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dankboss Posted May 31, 2021 Share Posted May 31, 2021 Can you target an individual model in a unit (not damage it, but choose it as the target), or just the unit in general? Since if you specifically measure to the unit champion, then that should work. All other units in the game that has a wizard makes the unit a wizard if it has X, while the Lumineth it's the champion, but doesn't give the unit the keyword. This really should have been FAQ'ed. To allow for the best of both worlds, I would rule it as if you can measure to and target the unit champion specifically, then you can gain the bonuses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barbarian Borelord Posted May 31, 2021 Share Posted May 31, 2021 Okay it looks like this is a question for Games Workshop. I'll ask it next time I see the live chat is online... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aloth_Corfiser Posted June 1, 2021 Share Posted June 1, 2021 How do you all plan to build your Ven Denst Duo? 2 Pistols? Sword and Torch? Hat or no hat? 😁 I think I'll go for aimed Pistol and Torch on Galen. As for Doralia: the Hat is so iconic but I like the Hairstyle too and sometimes it fits better to aim for more individuality. But then the hat adds a certain individuality too ... 😂 Interestingly they both have the Witch Hunter keyword, while Jelsen Darrock does not have it. Maybe because Jelsen was kicked out of the Order of Azyr? Maybe it's an oversight? Maybe it is a hint at "Witch Hunters - The Army" .... 🤪 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barbarian Borelord Posted June 1, 2021 Share Posted June 1, 2021 Two pistols, as an old-school Tomb Raider fan I like that. And no hat. Maybe I'll stick the hat on the back it that works. I'm not overly fond of their names though, I myself will call them Otto and Helga. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord of the Isle Posted June 1, 2021 Share Posted June 1, 2021 Do they have the Excelsis word? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Arthur Hotep Posted June 1, 2021 Author Share Posted June 1, 2021 4 hours ago, Aloth_Corfiser said: How do you all plan to build your Ven Denst Duo? 2 Pistols? Sword and Torch? Hat or no hat? 😁 Probably pistol and torch for Galen. The sword is cool, but if you give it to him he is carrying three swords total, which just seems a little much. For Doralia, probably no hat. Not sure, though, I will decide when I have the model in my hands. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zilberfrid Posted June 1, 2021 Share Posted June 1, 2021 39 minutes ago, Lord of the Isle said: Do they have the Excelsis word? I hope not, they'll get that if used in Excelsis anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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