AoS3 - Soulblight Gravelord Discussion

[JackStreicher]

3 hours ago, FeralMulan said:

You're thinking like a programmer with bad code, mate. Each roll is a separate activation of the rule. People arguing otherwise are just doing it for the sake of it.

And even if not, this would be so mind bendingly obviously the intent that if anyone uttered your way of looking at things in real life, they would be sucked into a black hole of irrelevance by the rulers of the cosmos.

Seriously, the rule is fine.

You are calling s.o. with a masters in informatics, game design and game & Ar/VR development a bad programmer. Sure mate. Think whatever you will raw you are wrong.

Edited April 8, 2023 by JackStreicher

[TechnoVampire]

12 minutes ago, Gery81 said:

Yeah, while that is great, one of them is most likely the extra move. I think that is kind of a miss, it should have been an extra rend, or +1 to wound or something. That would make those Blood Knights real scary. 

And yes, the Shifting keep should have been a Battle trait, replacing one of the "actions", and the WT should have been the once/game power up...

That’s true. The +1 movement is a token gesture that will rarely impact games. Something combat orientated would have been much more valuable, and even the old +2 to run and charge was significantly better.

they’ve given and taken away, but GW seems to now be averse to allowing SBGL units to hit hard. 

I missed what you meant by “WT”?

[Gery81]

Just now, TechnoVampire said:

That’s true. The +1 movement is a token gesture that will rarely impact games. Something combat orientated would have been much more valuable, and even the old +2 to run and charge was significantly better.

they’ve given and taken away, but GW seems to now be averse to allowing SBGL units to hit hard. 

I missed what you meant by “WT”?

I usually shorten Warlord trait to WT

[TechnoVampire]

Would 2” reach allow blood knights to attack in 2 ranks? 

[Doko]

My opinion of units in this new book,what do you think? I dont like the new necromancer dance but i dont know if put it better because the spells of necro lore are amazing.

 

Ohh i forgot the cursed city necro that to me is tier s,that 5 ward aura is amazing and again the necro lore in the book is great

Edited April 8, 2023 by Doko

[JackStreicher]

33 minutes ago, TechnoVampire said:

Would 2” reach allow blood knights to attack in 2 ranks? 

If you tokio-drift the first line of attack then yes.


Alright, I've been playing around with some list ideas. In this case: Style first, effectiveness second:
 

Spoiler

to visualise this on the Table:


Next step: optimise the list to make it pull its weight, maybe changing subfactions.
Overall I like the style of the army.

It's 91 Models == 142 wounds + 20 wounds for the summoned Dire Wolves.
 

 

 

Edit: My main idea is a solid line of Skeletons (2x 30?) with the Wight King (x 2?) buff to make them scarier.
Then some elite units that don't need to be reinforced like Blood Knights. Add some small chaff units to the army to screen or threaten. and A solid core should be done.

Edited April 8, 2023 by JackStreicher

[Tizianolol]

The fact Black knights are battleline on LoB and not LoN is very sad. There are more syndergy in LoN then LoB

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

6 minutes ago, Doko said:

My opinion of units in this new book,what do you think? I dont like the new necromancer dance but i dont know if put it better because the spells of necro lore are amazing

I don't think the new Necromancer is bad. The new Vanhel's is harder to set up and doesn't last several player turns, but when you get it off it's better than the old version because it is "fight in the hero phase". For 90 points, he's fine. You can even reasonably run two because the lore of deathmages is so good.

Other than that, I think you are underrating Direwolves and Fell Bats. I think it's best to think of Direwolves as horde cavalry. Their job is not to deal damage. Their job is to provide a lot of fast bodies that get into your opponent's way. And they do that better than ever now with 6" pile in. Fell Bats do the same thing they have always done: Fly 14" and be annoying. They are fine. They can also deploy in the grave and resurrect, and receive Deathly Invocation now. I'd slap a unit of them in a list if I had points left over.

[Nasrod]

How is no one talking about Torgilius? He casts, he has an 18" range missile attack, and for no command points extends a 5+ ward to summonables. Sure, wholly within 12 is tough, but 135 points for this guy is ludicrous. 

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

2 minutes ago, Nasrod said:

How is no one talking about Torgilius? He casts, he has an 18" range missile attack, and for no command points extends a 5+ ward to summonables. Sure, wholly within 12 is tough, but 135 points for this guy is ludicrous. 

I was just thinking about him, too. Definitely an interesting alternative to the Necromancer in Vyrkos. He's super fragile, though.

[Doko]

7 minutes ago, Nasrod said:

How is no one talking about Torgilius? He casts, he has an 18" range missile attack, and for no command points extends a 5+ ward to summonables. Sure, wholly within 12 is tough, but 135 points for this guy is ludicrous. 

As i said in my tier i would put him in tier s this season,the deathmage lore is great so dont mind if he dont have a spell and a ward 5 aura is great.

But next season when the foot heroes back to be sniped turn1 i dont know if i would ge him before regular necro

[Doko]

18 minutes ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

I don't think the new Necromancer is bad. The new Vanhel's is harder to set up and doesn't last several player turns, but when you get it off it's better than the old version because it is "fight in the hero phase". For 90 points, he's fine. You can even reasonably run two because the lore of deathmages is so good.

Other than that, I think you are underrating Direwolves and Fell Bats. I think it's best to think of Direwolves as horde cavalry. Their job is not to deal damage. Their job is to provide a lot of fast bodies that get into your opponent's way. And they do that better than ever now with 6" pile in. Fell Bats do the same thing they have always done: Fly 14" and be annoying. They are fine. They can also deploy in the grave and resurrect, and receive Deathly Invocation now. I'd slap a unit of them in a list if I had points left over.

To me direwolfs are useless due to the new coherency rules,with old coherency they would be good as screen being 10 models,but thanks to this coherency they are only 5 models for screen purposes and black knigths for less points are also fast and 5 models.

Bats.......yes maybe i would get them higher,but only 9 wounds gonna die with any attack and his damage even now that have been doubled is low for his cost and cant kill enemy chaf screens,maybe im biased on this unit because in my head this unit had to have some rule to intercept arrows,or -hit enemy shootings to units close to bats etc 

[Enoby]

1 hour ago, JackStreicher said:

You are calling s.o. with a masters in informatics, game design and game & Ar/VR development a bad programmer. Sure mate. Think whatever you will raw you are wrong.

++ Mod hat ++ 

Hey guys, please dial it back on the RAW vs RAI discussion - it's getting a bit out of hand

Feel free to keep talking about it, just keep it polite please! 

[JackStreicher]

Crimson Court: Can get any Subfaction Keyword? (haven't seen anything contradicting it)
The same goes for Velmorn's warband?

[AHexInScarletRed]

1 hour ago, Doko said:

My opinion of units in this new book,what do you think? I dont like the new necromancer dance but i dont know if put it better because the spells of necro lore are amazing.

 

Ohh i forgot the cursed city necro that to me is tier s,that 5 ward aura is amazing and again the necro lore in the book is great

I'd argue Vargheists are ranked higher due to the new Hunger. 

[Aturox]

I love the new battletome!

Every Legion has some fluffy rules to them an every unit has a use in some way😃

I wouldve loved if the dire wolves had gotten a little bit more Punch but a mobile tarpit with 2 wounds and a 5+ ward with an Option to increase the unitsize each turn and increased Punch by our Hammer units is alot better than i expected

The new black Knights including the Wight King are also amazing 😀 

Every Legion has some merits to It but i really Like Legion of night and vykros

 🤩

[JackStreicher]

1 minute ago, Aturox said:

very Legion has some merits to It but i really Like Legion of night

Care to elaborate?

 

1 minute ago, Aturox said:

every unit has a use in some way😃

That's a point the new Lead Game Designer is doing really well.

 

 

Edited April 8, 2023 by JackStreicher

[Gery81]

The new dire wolves can do a lot of things. They are one of our best options to tag troublesome ranged units without charging. They also work really well with zombies. Have the zombies up front, preferably on an objective, the wolves behind them, in pile-in range. If something charges those zombies, and kill them, they will bring some models with them, and then the wolves can pile-in, and retake that objective. It is probably one of the best use of the "kin of the wolf" heroic action in Vyrkos.

[Sception]

i think its wild how different the takes on this book are.  some say it's great, some say its trash, most say parts are great & parts are trash, but disagree completely on which is which.  :p

[Doko]

The book isnt trash but also is far of great.

In general this book have got a huge nerf to his max potential loosing every multiplier as manfred aura,coven,every legion buffs etc

But is easier to play due to have 0 ca,lower combos,lower auras,dont have to play around to get the 6 ward etc.

So for good players this book is a nerf from old book for sure because only have nerfs to everything and less tricks,but for "casuals" players this book gonna be great because is easier to play

Edited April 8, 2023 by Doko

[FeralMulan]

4 hours ago, JackStreicher said:

You are calling s.o. with a masters in informatics, game design and game & Ar/VR development a bad programmer. Sure mate. Think whatever you will raw you are wrong.

Sorry I should have made myself clearer: You are thinking like a programmer *dealing* with bad code. I was not, in fact, calling you a bad programmer. Sorry if it came across that way.

Very impressive qualifications, I still think you are dead wrong. I for one read the rules as written and understood what it was trying to do, as explained: each individual dice roll checks for a 4+and resurrects a model on success. If someone tried to argue your method to me in a game, I think I would thank them for their time and politely pack up.

[ArcLight]

I see a lot of people bemoaning the lack of command abilities, but I actually think it's a good thing and something that did have some thought put into it. A good chunk of the old useful CA have been turned into free to use abilities for one thing (so still there + able to stack better in some cases), but more than that, reducing the amount of command points people feel they need frees up heroic actions to be used more on newer or more interesting stuff rather than the default of trying for an extra CP. 

So they've made the army less CP hungry than they were before, while also giving more interesting option for heroic actions than going for extra CP - I like it.

[Aturox]

2 hours ago, JackStreicher said:

Care to elaborate?

 

That's a point the new Lead Game Designer is doing really well.

 

 

Especially the countercharge ist awesome and the Reposition is great for Capping objectives in the latgame

With morbegs claw theres Lots of Magical ability and the additional objective Control you could build a Solid Castle Army with a Screens of skelettons and a second Line of blood Knights/black Knights+Wight King on steed to active the countercharges😁

 

[FeralMulan]

10 hours ago, Malakithe said:

I wouldnt say perfectly fine...tons of people pouring over the leaks are saying this needs to be FAQ'd 

I heard this before but like, other than you, I have so far seen one person saying it needs an FAQ. Guess I'm just built different? Seems really clear to me.

[Nasrod]

I think part of the reason this book has a lot of negativity is that complaints from the previous book weren't acknowledged. Look at how improved Hedonites is while maintaining the idea of the warscrolls; even if it ends up being a weak book, the models do what they feel like they should do. 

Skeletons, Zombies, and Dire Wolves all now play radically different roles. And the idea that Zombies having a 6" pile in was too strong becomes really frustrating when it's stapled on to another unit in the book. Vyrkos Dynasty is nothing at all what it used to be; so many things were given completely new identities, for seemingly no reason, while the Vampire Heroes were ignored. 

Change is cool, but this amount of change for what is a technical horde army is going to frustrate many players and hobbiests alike.