AoS3 - Soulblight Gravelord Discussion

[Nightseer2012]

2 hours ago, Boar said:

Regardless he cannot have subfaction keyword, first paragraph of warscroll

Yea, I feel like they wrote his warscroll in its entirety to be pretty good, but forgot that sub factions are a thing.  So instead of having to re balance him around sub factions, they just added into his equipment restrictions that he cant have a sub faction.  Granted, if he DID get access to LoB buffs, I would still take him at a +50 pts increase, so I get why they didn't let it happen.  It just feels weird when they add these restrictions without any rules to back it up.  At least Nagash has "Warmaster", but for this guy, it really just feels tacked on as an afterthought, to the point a lot of people online are missing it entirely.

All in all, he is a solid pick, who does a different job than a normal VL, direct combat instead of a VL support combat, and still good at his cost.  Just the "snuck in" sub faction thing bothers me.  It reminds me of the whole Lumineth Loreseeker Unique thing where GW keeps flipping back and forth on it.

[Leshoyadut]

On 8/18/2022 at 8:16 AM, El Syf said:

The vampire in the last underworlds warband had this version of the hunger too. Hopefully version 2 battletome has this across the board. Vhordrai would be don.

As @Neil Arthur Hotep noted in the other thread, while I really like the wounds-done-equals-wounds-gained instead of healing if you kill a model, the timing of it makes it kind of awkward to actually make use of on a small hero. You need him to get attacked, but not killed, before he attacks to get value from the heal.

Though as you say, something like this on Vhordrai/VLoZDs would actually be pretty dope, since they can take some hits and keep attacking.

[Overread]

So Wayland Games have a discount on Cursed City going on and I'm half wondering about getting a second copy and using the resulting two sets of soulblight models as the start of a force. 

I know the zombies are pretty much going to translate over to a regular force pretty well, as will the Vargskyr, Vyrkos and Kosargi Nightguard. Since whilst the latter 3 are single pose, there's no other models for them out there and might never be (or the wait might be a long time). Plus they are more elite anyway rather than rank and file so having copies isn't as much of a problem. 

The Ulfenwatch are tricky though, do they mesh well with the regular skeleton kit? Styles look the same, I'm just curious if they "rank up" well. 

Spare bats can likely stand in easily as fell bats. 

 

So is it worth going that pathway? Is it a sensible viable start? Accepting that I'd likely have to convert/offload the spare parts from the second set. 

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

17 hours ago, Overread said:

So Wayland Games have a discount on Cursed City going on and I'm half wondering about getting a second copy and using the resulting two sets of soulblight models as the start of a force. 

I know the zombies are pretty much going to translate over to a regular force pretty well, as will the Vargskyr, Vyrkos and Kosargi Nightguard. Since whilst the latter 3 are single pose, there's no other models for them out there and might never be (or the wait might be a long time). Plus they are more elite anyway rather than rank and file so having copies isn't as much of a problem. 

The Ulfenwatch are tricky though, do they mesh well with the regular skeleton kit? Styles look the same, I'm just curious if they "rank up" well. 

Spare bats can likely stand in easily as fell bats. 

 

So is it worth going that pathway? Is it a sensible viable start? Accepting that I'd likely have to convert/offload the spare parts from the second set. 

In my opinion, you could probably make a fun list running all the Cursed City boss characters and models and if you go through the trouble of selling off a bunch of duplicate characters buying two Cursed City sets might even be a fairly cost effective way to go.

You are going to get a very casual list out of this, though. The Vargskyr and Bloodborn are kinda outclassed by Blood Knights in a mobile hammer role. And of the Cursed City villains, only Gorslav is really worth using. The package of Radukar the Wolf with a bunch of Kosargi Nightguard and possibly Torgilius is fun, at least. Halgrim is sadly best used as a skeleton champion.

Minor annoyances you might face:

Using the bat swarms as Fell Bats is a little awkward because Fell Bats are a lot bigger. Not a huge problem, but you should be aware. The Cursed City zombies are very detailed compared to the norma zombie kit, which might be annyoing for a horde unit wher you have to paint 20+ of them. 20 skeletons are kind of an awkward number to run, they are generally best in  min size or max size.

I would say it might make more sense to get only one CC box and supplement it with the regular kits you actually want. 10 CC skeletons plus one normal box gives you one max size unit of 30. Having 10 extra zombies on hand is also useful, since zombies can go above their starting unit size.

[Overread]

It sounds like the Skeletons and the zombies at least blend well enough with the regular ones GW sells that they will merge into units pretty well without standing out like a sore thumb. So I'd see the CC options are just a starting point for expanding. 

The Vargskyr is certainly a model I wouldn't mind two of as I think its a great looking model* and beast for the vampires. Plus GW charges £80 for the sprue with that one and I've a feeling it getting its own unique model might be a very long way off if never. 

I'm certainly not expecting the CC stuff to be a powerful setup, but certainly enough to make a functional army core even if not top tier. 

 

 

*I wish the Vargualf and other creatures would get re-made because I'm sure they'd look even more awesome now)

[Kaizennus]

22 hours ago, Overread said:

So Wayland Games have a discount on Cursed City going on and I'm half wondering about getting a second copy and using the resulting two sets of soulblight models as the start of a force. 

I know the zombies are pretty much going to translate over to a regular force pretty well, as will the Vargskyr, Vyrkos and Kosargi Nightguard. Since whilst the latter 3 are single pose, there's no other models for them out there and might never be (or the wait might be a long time). Plus they are more elite anyway rather than rank and file so having copies isn't as much of a problem. 

The Ulfenwatch are tricky though, do they mesh well with the regular skeleton kit? Styles look the same, I'm just curious if they "rank up" well. 

Spare bats can likely stand in easily as fell bats. 

 

So is it worth going that pathway? Is it a sensible viable start? Accepting that I'd likely have to convert/offload the spare parts from the second set. 

I’m going to go against the grain here and suggest not to go this way unless you were really comfortable with selling off the extra stuff and really wanted to double down on some of the exclusive units.

I think if you’re looking to get into Soulblight as an actual playable army your money would be better spent on “real” units to bolster a cursed city flavored army. That probably means picking up stuff like Belladamma, wolves, a box of zombies (you can use the CS ones for the extra zombie models you might need, and whatever else fits your fancy.

The only time is really encourage double CS boxes would be out of necessity, like limited access to other kits or if you maybe got the second box for free/ significant discount.

[Scythian]

Finally put my Soulblight Gravelords: Kastelai Blood Knight’s Crusade Army

Went 2-0 vs. Nurgle and Cities in two very fun games.

[Scythian]

Here are some better pics of the vampires.

[Scythian]

[Overread]

@Scythian awesome! Love the idea to split the reds between the knight armours and their mount! Also looks like a really fun list to hit hard and fast with cavalry and wargs! Loads of fun! 

 

On 9/8/2022 at 1:25 PM, Kaizennus said:

I’m going to go against the grain here and suggest not to go this way unless you were really comfortable with selling off the extra stuff and really wanted to double down on some of the exclusive units.

I think if you’re looking to get into Soulblight as an actual playable army your money would be better spent on “real” units to bolster a cursed city flavored army. That probably means picking up stuff like Belladamma, wolves, a box of zombies (you can use the CS ones for the extra zombie models you might need, and whatever else fits your fancy.

The only time is really encourage double CS boxes would be out of necessity, like limited access to other kits or if you maybe got the second box for free/ significant discount.

In the end I caved to getting a second box. 

Wayland had a nice deal on it at £87 which is honestly not far off what GW charges just for the single sprue of monsters from the set. So getting a second Vargskyr or more Vyrkos was near enough going to cost me that much anyway. Even if they aren't top tier I do like them as models in their own right. You're right that 20 Skeletons is a bit of a neither here nor there number, but with 20 in a regular box I can bolster up to two full squads with just 2 boxes of skeletons from GW. I've a slight eye to the future and feel that GW might not keep the whole unit restrictions system that 3.0 currently has in place forever (now wait and see GW make AoS a skirmish game by 4.0 :P)

I'll probably be able to sell off some of the duplicate content or just keep it shelved for painting or converting in the future. A glance around ebay shows that there's plenty of CC stock around and with the boxed set itself coming back on sale chances are it won't be high demand stuff for many years (if never if GW keep things in general production).

 

Also a favour to ask - could anyone measure the dimensions of a zombie dragon? Wingspan, length, width, height, neck length, head length/width etc... ? 

[Popisdead]

Hi folks,

My buddy plays Soulblight.  I'm not a SB player.  But for Christmas I want to buy him a monster and paint it.  He has the FEC on FEC ghoul dragon thingy painted and uses it lots.  

I was thinking the Mother of Nightmares or a Vampire Lord on Zombie Dragon.

The other option was 5 Blood Knights (he already owns 5, is having 10 worthwhile?)

He owns a ****** ton of infantry so I was looking for something unique and helpful and good.

Thanks kindly for any suggestions.

 

[Leshoyadut]

A Vampire Lord on Zombie Dragon is great, it's used in a lot of lists and is a real force to be reckoned with. The Blood Knights are also great; while I see 5 in lists more than 10, having 10 is absolutely never a bad thing as they're a great unit. I think the most niche thing out of what you were thinking is Lauka Vai/generic Vengorian Lord, but they're still good with their bubble and you can find uses for them pretty easily.

Of the three options, I think my recommendations would be, in order of "most generically useful to least generically useful" given him already having 5 Blood Knights: 1) VLoZD, 2) Blood Knights, 3) Lauka Vai. But none would be bad to have, if you think he'd enjoy painting one of the choices more than the others.

[Popisdead]

23 minutes ago, Leshoyadut said:

1) VLoZD, 2) Blood Knights, 3) Lauka Vai. 

 

thanks kindly you're the best!

[El Syf]

Also the vlozd, doubles up as Prince Vhordrai and in my experience he’s even better than a regular one.

 

[J4yzor]

Hey, i could not find an answer to this: Are Blood Knights with riders of ruin allowed to "retreat" from the Incarnate of Ghur?

I would say yes because it is not a retreat.

Any suggestions? 😀

[Sutek]

They make a normal move, not a retreat so yes.

[JackStreicher]

~8 years and 3 moves later I finally invested some evenings to get these guys painted to an okay standard.

[JackStreicher]

Another slight conversion

 

 

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

Anyone excited about our battlescroll point drops?

I mean, they definitely hit all those underperforming units, but I can't honestly say it made me more interested in running any of them. Neferata maybe, but even then she seems a lot trickier to use and less immediately rewarding than Manfred.

All the other options, though... The unmounted Terrorgheist and Zombie Dragon don't really bring anything very exciting to the table. They just seem like point inefficient beat sticks. The Wight Kings are support heroes that don't support very well and don't seem useful outside of super niche situations. And the Bloodseeker Palanquin truly seems outclassed by the Coven Throne, which is not even that good.

[Leshoyadut]

For me, the points changes don't actually change anything. I was already running Neferata in my lists, and after Bounty Hunters stops being a thing, I'll probably look to start having 30 blocks of GG again, but not because of the WK drop. And the monsters, like you said, are also still just kinda lackluster beatsticks when we have a lot of better things we can do with our army. Does make Avengorii slightly better? But the points drop doesn't feel like what they needed.

So I guess it just makes it a bit easier to put Purple Sun in my lists and still get a triumph, but ultimately doesn't make a huge difference.

[RocketPropelledGrenade]

I'm mostly switching to the upcoming S2D release for the near future after a long stretch piloting Soulblight, but if I were to play Gravelords more in the next couple months, I'd feel similarly to Leshoyadut. The points drops are nice, but mostly for Triumph bidding and Endless Spell options. They aren't going to actually change anything I include in my list. Still, they are a slight buff with no downsides, so win I guess?

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

At least 20 points off a model can actually make a difference in Gravelords, because we have access to cheap units. Might be enough to upgrade 10 skeletons into 5 black knights occasionally.

[JackStreicher]

1 hour ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

upgrade 10 skeletons into 5 black knights occasionally.

 You mean downgrade, right? 😂🤣

*SadBlackKnightNoises*

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

1 hour ago, JackStreicher said:

 You mean downgrade, right? 😂🤣

*SadBlackKnightNoises*

They are not the most exciting unit, but since the Gallet update and their point drop to 100 they are fine for screening.

They definitely do more work than 10 skeletons, at least.

[J4yzor]

Would have preferred to See some changes for the used units to get the win rate better instead of adjustments to units that are not viable even with the drop in points.

My list is now 10 points more expensive because of the points changes to cogs and that does not feel fair compared to how hard it is to win.